Concours Owners Group (COG) Forum

Concours 14 Discussion (C14 / ZG1400 / 1400GTR) => Concours 14 / ZG1400 General Chat and Tech => Topic started by: strum on January 27, 2018, 08:33:53 pm

Title: Greasing the driveline spline question
Post by: strum on January 27, 2018, 08:33:53 pm
  Im doing some winter maintenance and thought I would pull my drive shaft and lube the splines. I have the same noise I hear on some of the youtube videos Ive looked at but mine is not even close to as loud.  My question to you guys who have done it is. Do I need to replace the o ring on the rear of the shaft?
 The book says to replace it and I have no problem doing so if i need to but so far im not hearing anyone say they did.
I looked at the Ron Ayers site and that little o ring is crazy expensive for what it is.
 
 
 
Title: Re: Greasing the driveline spline question
Post by: connie_rider on January 27, 2018, 08:54:06 pm
I doubt it's been hurt.

But, the actual O'ring number is generally inside (near the end) of the Kawasaki part number.
You could use that number, or take the O'ring to a bearing supply house and buy a replacement (metric size) O'ring inexpensively.

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: Greasing the driveline spline question
Post by: Just Cliff on January 27, 2018, 10:51:12 pm
I just pulled my shaft lubed the splines for the 3rd & final time 2 weeks ago. Have never replaced the o ring or had a problem. I'm only at 195,000 miles though!

Cliff   :beerchug:
Title: Re: Greasing the driveline spline question
Post by: strum on January 28, 2018, 04:24:10 am
Thanks guys thats what I wanted to hear. I ll inspect and reuse unless i see damage. Im amazed they want 27 bucks for that little bugger. and then shipping.
Title: Re: Greasing the driveline spline question
Post by: ron203 on January 28, 2018, 12:57:10 pm
Thanks guys thats what I wanted to hear. I ll inspect and reuse unless i see damage. Im amazed they want 27 bucks for that little bugger. and then shipping.

I think there are several bearing and drive supply houses in Gainesville that serve the local factories if you happen to be headed this way and are not in a hurry to re-assemble.
Title: Re: Greasing the driveline spline question
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on January 28, 2018, 04:17:30 pm
I think there might be a misunderstanding going on here, the rear slines of the driveshaft are oiled by the final drive, that's the reason for the oring, to keep the oil sealed in the slip joint. The joint guys are greasing for the clunk noise is the front, where it mates onto the bevel drive. I did a video on the slip joint a couple years ago. Steve

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r213hax4D9o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r213hax4D9o)
Title: Re: Greasing the driveline spline question
Post by: strum on January 29, 2018, 01:53:35 am
Steve  I have looked at you video but i forgot about it lol.  Thanks for the Info .  I just felt I should have that o ring on hand in case mine showed damage/wear or if I damage it somehow.  But after re looking at the video Im gonna lube the front splines and reassemble. If it leaks it wont be hard to replace .
Title: Re: Greasing the driveline spline question
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on January 29, 2018, 02:42:11 am
and the ironic part is that the stock front splines aren't greased, and weren't on the c-10 either. I guess the c-14 driveshaft universals are so tight it makes the front splines pop and crack, and that's why guys grease them.   :-[  Steve
Title: Re: Greasing the driveline spline question
Post by: gsun on January 29, 2018, 05:01:31 am
Is it necessary to grease them then? I did it once, but if it's not necessary...
Title: Re: Greasing the driveline spline question
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on January 29, 2018, 11:29:56 am
IMO, no not on the driveshaft. now the wheel splines absolutely do need to be greased. Steve
Title: Re: Greasing the driveline spline question
Post by: strum on January 29, 2018, 12:32:31 pm
 Well heck if thats the case then im not gonna mess with it . My noise is so slight i just thought it needed to as a maintenance thing. I did Grease the wheel splines the last tire install.  So Ill  move on to some thing more productive .
Title: Re: Greasing the driveline spline question
Post by: Roger B on January 29, 2018, 01:08:23 pm
I just pulled my shaft lubed the splines for the 3rd & final time 2 weeks ago. Have never replaced the o ring or had a problem. I'm only at 195,000 miles though!

Cliff   :beerchug:

Cliff, I really appreciate you being our C14 test bed and your letting us know of your experiences.      You have given me a what to watch for on my own C14...which I must say is a short list.    When you get to 200,000 miles you should do a list of what you can remember of the maintenance and repairs that were needed if you haven't already.   
Title: Re: Greasing the driveline spline question
Post by: Just Cliff on January 29, 2018, 01:45:40 pm
I just pulled my shaft lubed the splines for the 3rd & final time 2 weeks ago. Have never replaced the o ring or had a problem. I'm only at 195,000 miles though!

Cliff   :beerchug:

Cliff, I really appreciate you being our C14 test bed and your letting us know of your experiences.      You have given me a what to watch for on my own C14...which I must say is a short list.    When you get to 200,000 miles you should do a list of what you can remember of the maintenance and repairs that were needed if you haven't already.   

First of all let me say just because I say or do it doesn't mean it's right. Might even be in someones best interest to do the op-piste!  :??: All I've done is log more miles than most.

Unless something explodes in the next 5,000 miles the list will be short.  :motonoises:

Cliff  :beerchug:
Title: Re: Greasing the driveline spline question
Post by: barberman on January 29, 2018, 06:01:21 pm
Strum:   I too have noticed that small noise, but only when on the center stand.  Never when rolling backwards or forward. I figured the reason it made noise was because of the sharp angle.  Glad to hear Steve say it's because they're so tight! kJ
Title: Re: Greasing the driveline spline question
Post by: rcannon409 on January 30, 2018, 10:47:47 pm
I just pulled my shaft lubed the splines for the 3rd & final time 2 weeks ago. Have never replaced the o ring or had a problem. I'm only at 195,000 miles though!

Cliff   :beerchug:

Cliff, you said, "Third, and final......"  did you run out of grease, or is the bike being retired?

195,000..damn.....

And Steve, thanks for the "no need to grease".....theres nothing better than a list of items I don't have to do and I'll add that one to it.
Title: Re: Greasing the driveline spline question
Post by: lather on February 01, 2018, 09:33:15 pm
There is a certain age (of either the bike or the mechanic) where you approach the point of diminishing returns. The bike eventually gets so worn out that funds spent on preventive maintenance are better saved for the next bike purchase. Or the mechanic's competency reaches the point that he is just as likely to break something as prevent failure.  :))
Title: Re: Greasing the driveline spline question
Post by: Just Cliff on February 02, 2018, 12:07:48 am
I just pulled my shaft lubed the splines for the 3rd & final time 2 weeks ago. Have never replaced the o ring or had a problem. I'm only at 195,000 miles though!

Cliff   :beerchug:

Cliff, you said, "Third, and final......"  did you run out of grease, or is the bike being retired?

195,000..damn.....


I have no intentions of retiring it until it's past any feasible repair. I'm quite happy with it & would only buy another when it does reach it's demise.  There will just be no need to do it again. This time will last the life of the bike, whether it be another 50,000 or 100,000 miles.

Like lather said it reaches a point where maintenance cost reach the value of the bike. On the other hand, without maintenance it sure want keep going. The 3 sets of tires I have on hand are worth as much as the bike, maybe more. Gotta have them though!  :motonoises:

Cliff   :beerchug:   
Title: Re: Greasing the driveline spline question
Post by: City Slicker on February 07, 2018, 12:06:35 am
I've just inspected mine and reapplied lube to splines.

As much as I could tell from inspection, the bevel box splines are not lubricated by the bevel box oil, just assembly paste.

This end of the shaft is designed to slide in and out of a splined sleeve depending on the geometry of the trailing suspension. The O-ring seems to be there to prevent the assembly paste from being flung out.

The o-ring has a a special cover over it, and taking a wee look at the service manual, you are going to need to use some special tools to slide a new o-ring and it's cover into place without damaging them. If the condition of these parts looks acceptable, I see no need to replace when servicing, as the manual states.
Title: Re: Greasing the driveline spline question
Post by: smokin on February 07, 2018, 01:28:44 am
Correct me if I am wrong,but many moons ago whilst training as a mechanic the information we received from the technical college educator was that normal universal joint are designed to travel through a max of 45 degrees and that constant velocity joints are designed to travel up to 60 degrees.
So I would suggest that when the C4/GTR1400 is on the double stand that in fact the angle of 45 degrees is in fact exceeded and the noise is the splines "cracking" on the out put shaft trying to compensate for the extreme angle which the uni joints are not designed for.
Greasing them may just mute the noise.
I guess is the simple fix is don't rotate the back wheel whilst the bike is in the double stand.


Correction,uni joints operate at far less an angle then I first stated according to the net information,and the same with CV joints
So I would suggest the same reason exists for the noise.
Title: Re: Greasing the driveline spline question
Post by: City Slicker on February 07, 2018, 10:26:41 am
I would suggest that when the C4/GTR1400 is on the double stand that in fact the angle of 45 degrees is in fact exceeded

Just eyeballed the angles of the driveshaft ball joints up on the stand. The rear is around 6 degrees and the front more difficult to tell but I'd guess around the same. So that angle would be its maximum. Some bright spark at Kawasaki probably figured that the driveshaft would be straight with an average rider and load.

If it's 45 degrees, you probably forgot to put an important bolt in the trailing assembly.
Title: Re: Greasing the driveline spline question
Post by: Daytona_Mike on February 07, 2018, 02:55:17 pm
I pulled my driveshaft out because of the ticking/clicking sound when on the center stand. It was more  pronounced when I spun the tire backwards.
The sound was not from the joints. It was from the release pin. I also found the upper part/splines needed grease . It was almost completely lacking of any grease from the factory. This was done  at about 10k miles and it was  easy to do.
I would suggest everyone should check theirs at least once. Mine is a 2008.
Title: Re: Greasing the driveline spline question
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on February 07, 2018, 03:55:45 pm
I pulled my driveshaft out because of the ticking/clicking sound when on the center stand. It was more  pronounced when I spun the tire backwards.
The sound was not from the joints. It was from the release pin. I also found the upper part/splines needed grease . It was almost completely lacking of any grease from the factory. This was done  at about 10k miles and it was  easy to do.
I would suggest everyone should check theirs at least once. Mine is a 2008.

Hey Mike, it's the same as the c-10, and neither bike was greased from the factory. I assume it's not needed, based on the longevity we've see achieved. IMO the clicking is much ado about nothing, unless folks are riding backwards while on the centerstand.  :motonoises: Steve

Title: Re: Greasing the driveline spline question
Post by: Daytona_Mike on February 07, 2018, 05:10:28 pm
Thanks Steve.
I guess the noise bugged me enough that I wanted to know what it was. We all know now  that  it is not hurting anything so  we can leave it alone . At the time (way back when I first bought the bike)  I thought something bad might be happening.
 I suspect that even today if I heard that clicking sound I would still grease that pin and spline just because we can.

It was the same as the cam chain rattle every time I started the bike up. It doesn't hurt anything but  bugged me enough to not want to hear it anymore  so I replaced that OEM CCT with a manual APE unit.

Carry on and ride safe.
Title: Re: Greasing the driveline spline question
Post by: strum on February 07, 2018, 06:23:14 pm
Your an over achiever Mike   :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Greasing the driveline spline question
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on February 07, 2018, 07:35:36 pm
Thanks Steve.
I guess the noise bugged me enough that I wanted to know what it was. We all know now  that  it is not hurting anything so  we can leave it alone . At the time (way back when I first bought the bike)  I thought something bad might be happening.
 I suspect that even today if I heard that clicking sound I would still grease that pin and spline just because we can.

It was the same as the cam chain rattle every time I started the bike up. It doesn't hurt anything but  bugged me enough to not want to hear it anymore  so I replaced that OEM CCT with a manual APE unit.

The beauty of COG right there.Where else do you go where people care enough to find out about every detail for others to learn from?  :great:
Steve
Title: Re: Greasing the driveline spline question
Post by: Jerdurr on February 07, 2018, 11:47:15 pm
Thanks Steve.
I guess the noise bugged me enough that I wanted to know what it was. We all know now  that  it is not hurting anything so  we can leave it alone . At the time (way back when I first bought the bike)  I thought something bad might be happening.
 I suspect that even today if I heard that clicking sound I would still grease that pin and spline just because we can.

It was the same as the cam chain rattle every time I started the bike up. It doesn't hurt anything but  bugged me enough to not want to hear it anymore  so I replaced that OEM CCT with a manual APE unit.

The beauty of COG right there.Where else do you go where people care enough to find out about every detail for others to learn from?  :great:
Steve

Couldn't agree more! This is what a community of knowledge, or forum, is all about! :)