Author Topic: Help!! Very hard starting when cold  (Read 2875 times)

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Offline Bilbur

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Re: Help!! Very hard starting when cold
« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2017, 08:17:14 pm »
MMk.

I'm going to ask what seems like a silly question at this point but, after going back and re-reading the rest of this thread I realize this has been specified.

How many days do you go until you try to start it again? Do you start it everyday or do you wait a day or two?

I'm with MOB on this. That video didn't really show anything wrong. Other than having to crank it once more I think we have all done that at least a couple of times with our C14s.

I agree with what you said; but that start on the second try was just luck. Usually i have to crank it more like 6 or 7 times. Which worries me bc i know it is straining the starter motor.

I also try to ride it every day. When not, i keep it plugged to my noco genius, very similar to a battery tender.

I thought of something else.

When you go to start it, try just bumping the starter and listening. You should hear a motor wine right after bumping the starter. It's pretty obvious.

That's the fuel pump. If you hear that then great, if not, that's not so good.

And just as a side note (no offense), you're not twisting the throttle while you're trying to start it are you? That's kind of a no-no on fuel injected bikes.

Offline JD

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Re: Help!! Very hard starting when cold
« Reply #26 on: April 14, 2017, 08:17:22 pm »
Thanks NightHawk, appreciate it. I must say, i am a bit discouraged, but i hope I'll find the solution.
I did clean the grounds right beaide the battery slot. Are there more grounds than those 2? If so, where are they?
Thanks again!
Best,

JD

--Harley Davidson is king when it comes to turning gas into smoke, without the outcome of power--

Offline Bilbur

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Re: Help!! Very hard starting when cold
« Reply #27 on: April 14, 2017, 08:19:17 pm »
Thanks NightHawk, appreciate it. I must say, i am a bit discouraged, but i hope I'll find the solution.
I did clean the grounds right beaide the battery slot. Are there more grounds than those 2? If so, where are they?
Thanks again!

Well, there's grounds for every individual circuit. Case in point, you're power port for your phone charger. That blown fuse is telling you exactly what you thought. There's a short somewhere.

Offline JD

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Re: Help!! Very hard starting when cold
« Reply #28 on: April 14, 2017, 08:20:35 pm »
Regarsing the whine, yes, it's there loud and clear. That is not the issue i think.

Regarding the throttle, if I don't give it any, it doesn't start AT ALL.

Does this help you pinpoint the issue?
Best,

JD

--Harley Davidson is king when it comes to turning gas into smoke, without the outcome of power--

Offline Bilbur

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Re: Help!! Very hard starting when cold
« Reply #29 on: April 14, 2017, 08:22:40 pm »
Regarsing the whine, yes, it's there loud and clear. That is not the issue i think.

Regarding the throttle, if I don't give it any, it doesn't start AT ALL.

Does this help you pinpoint the issue?

It's an indication for sure. Having to twist the throttle to get a fuel injected bike to start isn't normal. That motor wine is the fuel pump priming the system. You shouldn't have to pump/twist the throttle to get things going.

Hopefully someone else can chime in about that because that's a bit beyond my knowledge since I personally haven't had this type of issue myself.

Edit: Matt had some great ideas for checking fuel delivery issues. Given the low mileage and age of the bike you could have partially clogged fuel injectors as an example. They might work fine once you get the bike going but, they aren't doing their job during turnover and not delivering enough fuel for the bike to fire.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2017, 08:32:52 pm by Nighthawk »

Offline JTX

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Re: Help!! Very hard starting when cold
« Reply #30 on: April 14, 2017, 08:28:11 pm »
These things are complicated nowadways.


It may be worth a ride to the dealer to have them diagnose it. 


I got nothin.  Other than fuel delivery problem ( clogged somehow ) or ignition / coil.

Offline JD

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Re: Help!! Very hard starting when cold
« Reply #31 on: April 14, 2017, 08:52:58 pm »
These things are complicated nowadways.


It may be worth a ride to the dealer to have them diagnose it. 


I got nothin.  Other than fuel delivery problem ( clogged somehow ) or ignition / coil.

Thank you; Yeah, I guess tomorrow I'll take a trip to the dealer... Quite frankly, the Electrical / firing up issues are starting to annoy me.
Best,

JD

--Harley Davidson is king when it comes to turning gas into smoke, without the outcome of power--

Offline JTX

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Re: Help!! Very hard starting when cold
« Reply #32 on: April 14, 2017, 09:31:51 pm »
These things are complicated nowadways.


It may be worth a ride to the dealer to have them diagnose it. 


I got nothin.  Other than fuel delivery problem ( clogged somehow ) or ignition / coil.

Thank you; Yeah, I guess tomorrow I'll take a trip to the dealer... Quite frankly, the Electrical / firing up issues are starting to annoy me.




I wonder though if maybe a spark plug wire is shorting on something....Because it turns over just the same as mine does.....




Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Help!! Very hard starting when cold
« Reply #33 on: April 14, 2017, 09:39:53 pm »
something about Matt's foray into the bad vvt is starting to creep into my brain... Matt?  Steve
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Offline mattchewn

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Re: Help!! Very hard starting when cold
« Reply #34 on: April 14, 2017, 09:56:24 pm »
The way it starts up isn't really reminiscent of the VVT failure issues and related running/starting difficulties. Lucky for him.
Matt
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Offline JTX

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Re: Help!! Very hard starting when cold
« Reply #35 on: April 14, 2017, 10:36:13 pm »
I'm glad I dont know what VVT means.

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Help!! Very hard starting when cold
« Reply #36 on: April 14, 2017, 10:39:25 pm »
Regarsing the whine, yes, it's there loud and clear. That is not the issue i think.

Regarding the throttle, if I don't give it any, it doesn't start AT ALL.

Does this help you pinpoint the issue?

It's an indication for sure. Having to twist the throttle to get a fuel injected bike to start isn't normal. That motor wine is the fuel pump priming the system. You shouldn't have to pump/twist the throttle to get things going.

Hopefully someone else can chime in about that because that's a bit beyond my knowledge since I personally haven't had this type of issue myself.

Edit: Matt had some great ideas for checking fuel delivery issues. Given the low mileage and age of the bike you could have partially clogged fuel injectors as an example. They might work fine once you get the bike going but, they aren't doing their job during turnover and not delivering enough fuel for the bike to fire.

I'm sorry, but after watching his vid, I have to say you have tossed everything from soup to nuts at this guy, without any viable regard for realistic analysis, and told him to check everything right down to stripping the bike down to a valve adjust...well, almost...
Take a breather ok?

This is clearly a simple thing, and you have thrown wayyyyyyy too many items at him, and likely you have never serviced those sections, had issues personally with them to even suggest them, or even read about them.

Step back, take a breath, eat an easter egg and relax... or, belly up and become the tech editor.

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Offline Bilbur

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Re: Help!! Very hard starting when cold
« Reply #37 on: April 14, 2017, 11:31:11 pm »
Regarsing the whine, yes, it's there loud and clear. That is not the issue i think.

Regarding the throttle, if I don't give it any, it doesn't start AT ALL.

Does this help you pinpoint the issue?

It's an indication for sure. Having to twist the throttle to get a fuel injected bike to start isn't normal. That motor wine is the fuel pump priming the system. You shouldn't have to pump/twist the throttle to get things going.

Hopefully someone else can chime in about that because that's a bit beyond my knowledge since I personally haven't had this type of issue myself.

Edit: Matt had some great ideas for checking fuel delivery issues. Given the low mileage and age of the bike you could have partially clogged fuel injectors as an example. They might work fine once you get the bike going but, they aren't doing their job during turnover and not delivering enough fuel for the bike to fire.

I'm sorry, but after watching his vid, I have to say you have tossed everything from soup to nuts at this guy, without any viable regard for realistic analysis, and told him to check everything right down to stripping the bike down to a valve adjust...well, almost...
Take a breather ok?

This is clearly a simple thing, and you have thrown wayyyyyyy too many items at him, and likely you have never serviced those sections, had issues personally with them to even suggest them, or even read about them.

Step back, take a breath, eat an easter egg and relax... or, belly up and become the tech editor.

Isn't it funny how assumptions can be? The guy is having an issue with his bike. Any and all suggestions, even if they don't pan out are better than basically flattening someone out on a friggin' forum for trying to help.

But I guess someone trying to diagnose an issue through a forum requires some level of magic that I'm not aware of since apparently my plethora of suggestions have overwhelmed you.

I tried engaging this forum a bit more since I thought most people around here didn't follow the typical forum attitude but, I'm wrong on that front.

Back to simply reading and not engaging. just not worth my time.

Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: Help!! Very hard starting when cold
« Reply #38 on: April 15, 2017, 12:25:29 am »
Turns over fast- voltage is correct. I do not see what the problem could be. Anything I suggest  would be a guess.  He is running the same oil as I am.
 I leave mine  sitting for weeks at a time and mine  just fired up immediately on first push. What are the simple things first?
 Grounds, gas and ... spark plugs? Could it be a vacuum leak?
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Offline JimBob

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Re: Help!! Very hard starting when cold
« Reply #39 on: April 15, 2017, 02:15:50 am »
Quote
starts if the throttle is opened a little bit


I'd lean toward bad TPS or out of adjustment, especially since you say it runs right otherwise.


Possible bad temp sensor - ECU not enrichening because of lack of "cold" signal - opening throttle adds fuel.

Offline Old Man on a Connie

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Re: Help!! Very hard starting when cold
« Reply #40 on: April 15, 2017, 03:18:14 am »
Regarsing the whine, yes, it's there loud and clear. That is not the issue i think.

Regarding the throttle, if I don't give it any, it doesn't start AT ALL.

Does this help you pinpoint the issue?

It's an indication for sure. Having to twist the throttle to get a fuel injected bike to start isn't normal. That motor wine is the fuel pump priming the system. You shouldn't have to pump/twist the throttle to get things going.

Hopefully someone else can chime in about that because that's a bit beyond my knowledge since I personally haven't had this type of issue myself.

Edit: Matt had some great ideas for checking fuel delivery issues. Given the low mileage and age of the bike you could have partially clogged fuel injectors as an example. They might work fine once you get the bike going but, they aren't doing their job during turnover and not delivering enough fuel for the bike to fire.

I'm sorry, but after watching his vid, I have to say you have tossed everything from soup to nuts at this guy, without any viable regard for realistic analysis, and told him to check everything right down to stripping the bike down to a valve adjust...well, almost...
Take a breather ok?

This is clearly a simple thing, and you have thrown wayyyyyyy too many items at him, and likely you have never serviced those sections, had issues personally with them to even suggest them, or even read about them.

Step back, take a breath, eat an easter egg and relax... or, belly up and become the tech editor.

Isn't it funny how assumptions can be? The guy is having an issue with his bike. Any and all suggestions, even if they don't pan out are better than basically flattening someone out on a friggin' forum for trying to help.

But I guess someone trying to diagnose an issue through a forum requires some level of magic that I'm not aware of since apparently my plethora of suggestions have overwhelmed you.

I tried engaging this forum a bit more since I thought most people around here didn't follow the typical forum attitude but, I'm wrong on that front.

Back to simply reading and not engaging. just not worth my time.
It's good NightH. BTW you should be in the SW Area. MOB is our version of Animal Mother in Full Metal Jacket. A good dude. We just need to find somebody to lob tech grenades at him for the rest of his life  :)) :))
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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Help!! Very hard starting when cold
« Reply #41 on: April 15, 2017, 11:28:43 am »
What struck me was the pump cycling the second time, after the first attempt to start. I don't think he turned the key off, and I don't knw if that's normal, because my bike always starts first try. Still, it seems like that second prime would not be needed. Steve
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Offline mattchewn

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Re: Help!! Very hard starting when cold
« Reply #42 on: April 15, 2017, 12:08:33 pm »
Steve,
Pump runs for first prime and then every time starter is engaged.
Matt
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Offline JD

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Re: Help!! Very hard starting when cold
« Reply #43 on: April 15, 2017, 07:15:01 pm »
Guys, all of you are awesome.Al

If I wasn't able to diagnose the issue by speaking to all of you guys, it doesn't matter. I appreciate all of your helping hands, from the bottom of my heart (cheesy but true). Thanks again.

Spoke with the mechanic, i think he is already drooling at the amount of billable hrs he'll be able to throw at me in 'diagnosing' whatever is wrong with my bike, but oh well, motorcycling sometimes can be an expensive activity.

I just hope it isn't a vacuum issue. I know plugs should be a fairly easy job, same with the sensor i hope?

If it gives you guys more background, when i went to purchase it, the previous owner left it on while I went to the MTO and drained the battery. When we returned, it wouldn't start because of it, so he tried jumping it through the auxiliary (cigarette lighter style) port. Obviously it didn't work, but maybe he fried something while at it?

Thanks again guys!!!  ;) :motonoises:
Best,

JD

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Offline JTX

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Re: Help!! Very hard starting when cold
« Reply #44 on: April 15, 2017, 07:18:26 pm »


If it gives you guys more background, when i went to purchase it, the previous owner left it on while I went to the MTO and drained the battery. When we returned, it wouldn't start because of it, so he tried jumping it through the auxiliary (cigarette lighter style) port. Obviously it didn't work, but maybe he fried something while at it?






Theres a very good possibility you have a damaged wiring harness in the bike somewhere.


A motorcycle is not designed to be jump started through a small accessory circuit. The starter needs 20+ Amps.  Could very well be something damaged/melted and shorting out now.


May just have to suck it up and pay up at the dealer.

Offline jwh20

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Re: Help!! Very hard starting when cold
« Reply #45 on: April 15, 2017, 07:21:04 pm »
The power outlet on the dash has a 5A fuse in the circuit so I doubt that you could actually jump start there, perhaps just provided a little bit of additional voltage that allowed it to start.  But if you pushed more than 5A through it the fuse would blow.
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Offline JD

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Re: Help!! Very hard starting when cold
« Reply #46 on: April 15, 2017, 08:16:36 pm »
excellent input!

the fuse did blow! however, once changed, it blew again, so something got messed up for sure :(
Best,

JD

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Offline JTX

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Re: Help!! Very hard starting when cold
« Reply #47 on: April 15, 2017, 08:38:31 pm »
excellent input!

the fuse did blow! however, once changed, it blew again, so something got messed up for sure :(




Right. Remember, the fuse for that is in a wiring harness. If it got hot enough, which it can with 20amps, it may have melted at any point on that line.


ETA: And if it continues to blow when you replace the fuse, then you got a short somewhere still.  It'll have to be traced and it wont be cheap.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2017, 08:52:51 pm by JTX »

Offline jwh20

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Re: Help!! Very hard starting when cold
« Reply #48 on: April 15, 2017, 08:51:02 pm »
excellent input!

the fuse did blow! however, once changed, it blew again, so something got messed up for sure :(

Umm, so you left out that tidbit of information?  So the fuse now blows all on its own without any load in the power outlet?  I'd be checking that out right away and it could be related to your other issues.
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Offline JD

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Re: Help!! Very hard starting when cold
« Reply #49 on: April 15, 2017, 09:11:34 pm »
I didn't leave it out; I 'reported' it here as soon as I found it happening.
Best,

JD

--Harley Davidson is king when it comes to turning gas into smoke, without the outcome of power--