Author Topic: Help!! Very hard starting when cold  (Read 2438 times)

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Online MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Help!! Very hard starting when cold
« Reply #50 on: April 15, 2017, 09:15:18 pm »
And the plot thickens..... >:D :rotflmao:

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Offline Goldfingers

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Re: Help!! Very hard starting when cold
« Reply #51 on: April 18, 2017, 02:14:03 am »
Your Vid was hardly that of a hard starting bike. I'll go with Steve's idea of old gas.
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Offline Upstate Pete

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Re: Help!! Very hard starting when cold
« Reply #52 on: April 18, 2017, 02:33:35 am »
7000 miles on a 2012 is your problem. The bike has not been broken in. Mine didn't feel right till 10,000 miles. I'm sure it's clogged injectors and/or bad rotted gas.

Offline Zarticus

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Re: Help!! Very hard starting when cold
« Reply #53 on: April 18, 2017, 03:12:25 am »
Run some seafoam threw it & ride it hard  :beerchug:
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Online MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Help!! Very hard starting when cold
« Reply #54 on: April 18, 2017, 07:40:06 pm »
He still needs to address exactly what melted down, and is now shorting that lighter plug circuits wiring harness, which now popps the fuse when he turns on ignition switch...
When I made the comment about the pl9t thickens, it was based on the results revealed about the attempts to jump the bike thru that socket, and results of that effort now.
With this bikes CANBUS system, when a wire melts down, and may melt into a ground wire in a harness, or a power wires for some other area, hidden 8n a wrapped harness, all sorts of signals can get crossed. Then, during the starting process, those wires may heat, and connect, and also disconnect once current flows, çreating this hard start syndrome..
At this point harness examination and repair is necessary, then, and only then, should the bike be analyzed thru some invoked diagnostics, either thru onboard system, or KDS, but only after the short circuit is fixed, and a fully charged battery is in place.

The cig lighter is easiily accessed, and can be pulled out with little effort, id start there and start tracing those wires back to the harnesses..
Alsso note, that circuit runs thru an accessory relay, and if that relay was damaged by a high current surge, like jump starting thru it, it could have latched that relay in a manner that is causing this issue... so id pull the fuse, pull that relay, pull the lighter, and see if these make an effect.
IIRC the relay lives on the left side, under the black filler plate or side glove box... on a gen 1 its the rear most relay in the bank of six that live there, I don't have a gen 2 new book, sorry.

I'll also ask this, where there, or are there, any accesory items connected to either of the accessory circuits, forward one, or rear one, this is important.
I ask, because if so, you sshould also examine those wires as they may have melted at 5he same time, creating 2 more points where a short co7ld have occurred during the jump attempt. All 3 circuits tie to that relay, thus if the bike was powered on during the jump process,, any one. Could have taken a hit.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2017, 08:18:25 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

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Offline JD

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Re: Help!! Very hard starting when cold
« Reply #55 on: April 19, 2017, 02:08:46 pm »
He still needs to address exactly what melted down, and is now shorting that lighter plug circuits wiring harness, which now popps the fuse when he turns on ignition switch...
When I made the comment about the pl9t thickens, it was based on the results revealed about the attempts to jump the bike thru that socket, and results of that effort now.
With this bikes CANBUS system, when a wire melts down, and may melt into a ground wire in a harness, or a power wires for some other area, hidden 8n a wrapped harness, all sorts of signals can get crossed. Then, during the starting process, those wires may heat, and connect, and also disconnect once current flows, çreating this hard start syndrome..
At this point harness examination and repair is necessary, then, and only then, should the bike be analyzed thru some invoked diagnostics, either thru onboard system, or KDS, but only after the short circuit is fixed, and a fully charged battery is in place.

The cig lighter is easiily accessed, and can be pulled out with little effort, id start there and start tracing those wires back to the harnesses..
Alsso note, that circuit runs thru an accessory relay, and if that relay was damaged by a high current surge, like jump starting thru it, it could have latched that relay in a manner that is causing this issue... so id pull the fuse, pull that relay, pull the lighter, and see if these make an effect.
IIRC the relay lives on the left side, under the black filler plate or side glove box... on a gen 1 its the rear most relay in the bank of six that live there, I don't have a gen 2 new book, sorry.

I'll also ask this, where there, or are there, any accesory items connected to either of the accessory circuits, forward one, or rear one, this is important.
I ask, because if so, you sshould also examine those wires as they may have melted at 5he same time, creating 2 more points where a short co7ld have occurred during the jump attempt. All 3 circuits tie to that relay, thus if the bike was powered on during the jump process,, any one. Could have taken a hit.

Guys, again, very thankful for all of your responses!
Sorry I was a little bit MIA, i've been trying to shake off this stupid cold for the last month  :73: , and it had me under the weather.

So, an update on the issue; already ran seafoam on the second tank of premium clean gas. I also tried something someone here told me to do, "...you shouldn't have to give it throttle to start it, at all". So I thought that could be the issue. I tried just kicking the start button without touching anything else, and I got it to start in the first attempt! (even though it felt like it took longer to start than it should). I feel pretty stupid  :-[, but that was a 'vice' i picked up on my previous 2004 (carburated) yamaha Vmax. I'm hoping that was all it was; maybe i was flooding it by trying to turn the throttle and not waiting the length it takes for it to start, while cranking.

Already booked some time with the mechanic on Friday to look at that short on the aux port. Most likely, like you guys said, some cable melted, because every time i change the 5A fuse, even without starting it (just putting it on the "on" position), the fuse goes.

The rest of the things within that fuse box is working properly (including the windshield).

I was going to try and test the electric issue myself, but I feel it is a little beyond my knowledge.
I'll keep you guys posted on what happens next.  :great:  :motonoises: :beerchug:
Best,

JD

--Harley Davidson is king when it comes to turning gas into smoke, without the outcome of power--

Online MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Help!! Very hard starting when cold
« Reply #56 on: April 19, 2017, 07:21:49 pm »
That aux fuse circuit is on the switched side so no power is appli3d to it until the key is turned on, that's why it pops then.
My comments about the relay were based on this, and the fact that attempting to jump the b bbike thru the lighter with the bike off, would likely just mess with that wire, but in order to back feed juice to damagee other stuff, they key would have to be in the on position, not knowing just what transpired during the jump attempts still has a concern, and the short circuit should be addressed... bikes on fire, or dying on a freeway in traffic should be a main concern.

Best of luck, ride safe, and don't twist the throttle when pressing the start button.... :great:

30 YEARS OF KAW.....Rich R. (the other one..)  COG 5977  JUSTAMEMBAHNOW

Offline JD

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Re: Help!! Very hard starting when cold
« Reply #57 on: April 20, 2017, 11:53:14 am »
That aux fuse circuit is on the switched side so no power is appli3d to it until the key is turned on, that's why it pops then.
My comments about the relay were based on this, and the fact that attempting to jump the b bbike thru the lighter with the bike off, would likely just mess with that wire, but in order to back feed juice to damagee other stuff, they key would have to be in the on position, not knowing just what transpired during the jump attempts still has a concern, and the short circuit should be addressed... bikes on fire, or dying on a freeway in traffic should be a main concern.

Best of luck, ride safe, and don't twist the throttle when pressing the start button.... :great:

Thanks! I agree - That's exactly why the fuse pops every time i turn on the ignition.

I believe the bike was off when we tried to jump start it, and soon we realized that it wasn't working that way, so we jumped start it straight from the battery.

I've been just using my thumb to start it and it has been starting really well, although i just wonder if it is normal to have to crank for 2 or 3 seconds before it fires up...feels like a long time!
Best,

JD

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Offline Nighthawk

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Re: Help!! Very hard starting when cold
« Reply #58 on: April 20, 2017, 07:57:21 pm »
I've been just using my thumb to start it and it has been starting really well, although i just wonder if it is normal to have to crank for 2 or 3 seconds before it fires up...feels like a long time!

If its the first start up of the day then it's pretty typical. If it starts like that through out the day, even after riding, then that's not really normal.

I would wait to be concerned about how long it takes to start until after you get the short fixed. Like MOB said, some signals may be getting crossed during starting.

With all the electronic wizbangs and doohickeys on bikes these days it doesn't take much to upset the whole system. I'm just glad Kawi didn't adopt the throttle-by-wire and brake-by-wire technology yet.

Offline JD

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Re: Help!! Very hard starting when cold
« Reply #59 on: April 24, 2017, 12:43:13 pm »
I've been just using my thumb to start it and it has been starting really well, although i just wonder if it is normal to have to crank for 2 or 3 seconds before it fires up...feels like a long time!

If its the first start up of the day then it's pretty typical. If it starts like that through out the day, even after riding, then that's not really normal.

I would wait to be concerned about how long it takes to start until after you get the short fixed. Like MOB said, some signals may be getting crossed during starting.

With all the electronic wizbangs and doohickeys on bikes these days it doesn't take much to upset the whole system. I'm just glad Kawi didn't adopt the throttle-by-wire and brake-by-wire technology yet.

Hey everyone, quick (happy) update!

So this weekend I went with a group of 20 riders to check out parts of Ontario (I live in Canada ey), and the bike performed flawlessly! (aside from the stupid cigarette lighter port, i'm still to fix that). It started perfectly and seamlessly every single time! I'm happy to realize i was the one doing something wrong + having a bad battery :)

We went on a 200 mile ride through Niagara region, beautiful day, excellent ride! However, my neck-shoulders triangle were super tight and painful, and my wrists (and left hand) are sore as sh't! Cannot wait to get Ryan's AST risers!

Totally off-topic, but it makes me wonder if the ergos of this bike are not right for me :(

Anyhow, I'll be taking her to the mechanic to find that short on the cig-charger on thursday, will provide an update on that front later this week.

Thanks guys!!  :beerchug: :motonoises: :great: ;)
Best,

JD

--Harley Davidson is king when it comes to turning gas into smoke, without the outcome of power--

Offline JD

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Re: Help!! Very hard starting when cold
« Reply #60 on: April 28, 2017, 11:45:39 am »
That aux fuse circuit is on the switched side so no power is appli3d to it until the key is turned on, that's why it pops then.
My comments about the relay were based on this, and the fact that attempting to jump the b bbike thru the lighter with the bike off, would likely just mess with that wire, but in order to back feed juice to damagee other stuff, they key would have to be in the on position, not knowing just what transpired during the jump attempts still has a concern, and the short circuit should be addressed... bikes on fire, or dying on a freeway in traffic should be a main concern.

Best of luck, ride safe, and don't twist the throttle when pressing the start button.... :great:

Hey MOB & everyone @COG! Hope you had a good week, and thanks again for helping me out with so much knowledge. Truly appreciate it.

So, I took the bike to the mechanic yesterday to figure out the short on the auxiliary power port (right side, when looking at the dash from drive position). The mechanic said that he had to strip the whole fairings and tank in order to access the wiring harness in all it's length. I assume this is correct?

If so, is what he is trying to do a good idea? I told him that if he doesn't find the short in the first 'accessible' portion of the auxiliary power port wires, to just cut that wire out on the port end and on the fuse box end, and "bypass" it by installing a new cable parallel to the harness, all the way to the fuse box. Otherwise, this little joke could cost me over a thousand bucks! (100/hr mechanic time).

What do you think/suggest?  :( :??:

Thanks to all of you guys!
Best,

JD

--Harley Davidson is king when it comes to turning gas into smoke, without the outcome of power--

Offline mattchewn

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Re: Help!! Very hard starting when cold
« Reply #61 on: April 28, 2017, 12:20:49 pm »
JD,
You have the right idea. Tearing the whole bike down first is the wrong way to go about it. Most likely the short will be in the first few feet near the Cig lighter socket anyway. I would recommend actually trying to locate the damaged section though as it could well end up causing other issues later on if it is contacting other more sensitive wiring.
Spend a little bit and see how it goes. I would not allow them to "strip it down" as this will not reveal all the wiring anyway. There is no wiring related under the tank and lower fairings. pull the upper parts and possibly the mid fairing pieces ONLY! You can easily pull a new wire with only those removed.
Matt
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Offline gPink

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Re: Help!! Very hard starting when cold
« Reply #62 on: April 28, 2017, 02:12:02 pm »


If it gives you guys more background, when i went to purchase it, the previous owner left it on while I went to the MTO and drained the battery. When we returned, it wouldn't start because of it, so he tried jumping it through the auxiliary (cigarette lighter style) port. Obviously it didn't work, but maybe he fried something while at it?

Thanks again guys!!!  ;) :motonoises:

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