Author Topic: How dirty are you air filters?  (Read 1281 times)

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Offline cyberswine

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How dirty are you air filters?
« on: August 10, 2017, 09:36:45 pm »
Really curious about this.  Just did my third filter change on my '15... I ride a lot :)
The first time the stock filter was really filthy and I was surprised by how bad it was.  I replaced it with a Hi Flo and when I changed the second time it was just a little grimy much like I expected.  This time the filter looked almost new.  Changing mostly as per the book intervals.  I can't explain the differences as I don't know where I encountered any particularly dirty atmosphere or road surfaces at any time.  So when other members change them out, are they visibly dirty?  I put in another Hi Flo as a best practice and I guess I'll toss the old one rather than try to save a few bucks but reusing it sure is tempting.....

Offline joliver

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Re: How dirty are you air filters?
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2017, 09:52:40 pm »
I was surprised how dirty mine was. We have a fair amount of roadwork getting ready for the new damn dam that might be the reason but I am just guessing.
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Offline mtnbandit

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Re: How dirty are you air filters?
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2017, 11:19:45 pm »
  The air filter on my 2011 get very dirty with bugs during the Spring time and as Summer arrives the bugs seem to go elsewhere and the filter is always much cleaner. I never ride this Concours in the dirt except for getting up to and back from the barn but it is a gravel driveway.
 Brent
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Offline ghostrider990

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Re: How dirty are you air filters?
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2017, 11:31:53 am »
Is the Hi Flow Filter the Generic K+N type filter??

I can't remember, and I can't find the receipt for the one I bought and replaced last year.  :-[

To ans the OP:  OEM paper filter got changed originally at 10K miles, and was very dirty and oily and full of bugs and shite.

Gauze filter recently "serviced" at 17k miles, and was not NEARLY as dirty as the first 10k miles.
Plenty of long trip during both intervals, I have no explanation for the difference in condition of either.

The only complaint I have is the REALLY tight fit of the replacement Gauze filter into the Air Filter housing on the bike.
It is REALLY hard to insert and extract from the airbox.  ::)

gr
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Online Roger Dodger

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Re: How dirty are you air filters?
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2017, 02:10:27 pm »
In theory.. a really dirty air filter is GOOD because it's catching more stuff!

The high flow filter catches less particulates and allows them into your intake. I ran a K/N in my FJR and found very dirty butterfly valves. Others suggested running OEM filters to 'keep it clean' so I follow them. No worries... just a periodic maintenance fee that always fits.

Offline seagiant1

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Re: How dirty are you air filters?
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2017, 02:43:26 pm »
In theory.. a really dirty air filter is GOOD because it's catching more stuff!

The high flow filter catches less particulates and allows them into your intake. I ran a K/N in my FJR and found very dirty butterfly valves. Others suggested running OEM filters to 'keep it clean' so I follow them. No worries... just a periodic maintenance fee that always fits.

Hi,
       It's "funny" how OEM.... ::)

Seems to be the way to go these days! :great:

Even finding this out on my old FORD pick-up truck!!! ;D ;D ;D
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Offline 4Bikes

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Re: How dirty are you air filters?
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2017, 05:03:05 pm »
My air filter is very dirty after 12,000 miles.  Check your Fuel Filter after 40,000 miles.   :-\

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Re: How dirty are you air filters?
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2017, 05:10:08 pm »
My fuel filter after 50k miles looked like that.   I was able to get it apart, out, cleaned and back together myself.   Glad I did.

Air I do not have enough experience with yet.  I just know that the week I bought a KnN everyone started to say they did not filter as well.   Hmmm.
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Offline Sailor_chic

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Re: How dirty are you air filters?
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2017, 06:12:57 pm »
My air filter is very dirty after 12,000 miles.  Check your Fuel Filter after 40,000 miles.   :-\



Hmmm, now ya got me thinking about mine with 52k on the filter. Do you have the fuel filter part number?
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Offline Just Cliff

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Re: How dirty are you air filters?
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2017, 06:21:21 pm »
My air filter is very dirty after 12,000 miles.  Check your Fuel Filter after 40,000 miles.   :-\



Hmmm, now ya got me thinking about mine with 52k on the filter. Do you have the fuel filter part number?


The part is #49019-0013. Mine looked a little worse at 140,000, but still ran fine.

Cliff   :beerchug:

Offline 4Bikes

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Offline BDF

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Re: How dirty are you air filters?
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2017, 10:03:00 pm »
Mine is always filthy and seems a bit clogged at 25K miles, although I never noticed any improvement after changing one. Every-time I change one, I think I should have changed it at half the mileage currently on the filter.

Brian

Really curious about this.  Just did my third filter change on my '15... I ride a lot :)
The first time the stock filter was really filthy and I was surprised by how bad it was.  I replaced it with a Hi Flo and when I changed the second time it was just a little grimy much like I expected.  This time the filter looked almost new.  Changing mostly as per the book intervals.  I can't explain the differences as I don't know where I encountered any particularly dirty atmosphere or road surfaces at any time.  So when other members change them out, are they visibly dirty?  I put in another Hi Flo as a best practice and I guess I'll toss the old one rather than try to save a few bucks but reusing it sure is tempting.....
KiPass keeping you up at night? Has the low fuel warning burned your retinas? Find peace, harmony and the answer to these problems. www.incontrolne.com

Offline BDF

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Re: How dirty are you air filters?
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2017, 10:07:22 pm »
Yes, the fuel filters do get dirty, and they are covered in a black 'goo'. But usually they are no where near clogged no matter how bad they look. As long as the mesh is not closed off, the filter, really a screen, is actually fine.

I am not advocating [not cleaning] them, merely saying that they look far worse than they usually are. I have had quite a few out and some had very high miles behind them but all would flow more than enough fuel to satisfy a C-14. So by all means clean or replace them but it is not usually anything to worry about and they look like they need attention much, much earlier than they actually do need cleaning or replacing.

Brian

My air filter is very dirty after 12,000 miles.  Check your Fuel Filter after 40,000 miles.   :-\


KiPass keeping you up at night? Has the low fuel warning burned your retinas? Find peace, harmony and the answer to these problems. www.incontrolne.com

Offline Red Fox

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Re: How dirty are you air filters?
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2017, 05:30:42 pm »

The first time the stock filter was really filthy and I was surprised by how bad it was.  I replaced it with a Hi Flo and when I changed the second time it was just a little grimy much like I expected.  This time the filter looked almost new.  Changing mostly as per the book intervals.  I can't explain the differences as I don't know where I encountered any particularly dirty atmosphere or road surfaces at any time.  So when other members change them out, are they visibly dirty?


Photos would be useful here. 
I'm guessing that the difference in filter load/crud level in your various filters is a function of how well/finely the various filters actually filter.
To get hi-flo the filter trade-off is always that there is less flow restriction in the filter.
Flow restriction is pretty much inversely related to filtering quality. 
So a Hi-Flo filter doesn't filter out as many of the very smallest particles...

I live in a generally dusty, pretty close to desert, area - I use the standard Kawa filter.
I've experience in Connecticut, so near you, and there is dramatically less dust in the air there than my area.
Above is my general info - don't intend to argue it.


But here's a thread with photos showing OEM filter at 21,000 miles on a 2011 C-14.

http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-14-zg1400-general-chat-and-tech/air-filter-at-21-000-miles/msg374299/#msg374299


TryCities, WA.    2011  C-14, silver.

Offline Red Fox

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Re: How dirty are you air filters?
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2017, 05:36:49 pm »
My air filter is very dirty after 12,000 miles.  Check your Fuel Filter after 40,000 miles.   :-\



Hmmm, now ya got me thinking about mine with 52k on the filter. Do you have the fuel filter part number?


The part is #49019-0013. Mine looked a little worse at 140,000, but still ran fine.

Cliff   :beerchug:



Thank you!
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Offline connie_rider

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Re: How dirty are you air filters?
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2017, 06:41:21 pm »
I'll probably buy another stock filter as I'm not a fan of the K&N Gauze type.
Always liked the Foam on a C-10.

Do they make a foam filter for the C-14?

Ride safe, Ted
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Offline RoadKillHeaven

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Re: How dirty are you air filters?
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2017, 07:03:11 pm »
Regarding non-serviceable fuel filters and other items manufacturers make life-time service. 
I have a co-worker who changes A/C condenser every year just to make sure his thermometer registers 38F output.
He also replaces suspension components just because he "felt" something funny driving his F350. 
Despite manufacturer's design and projected component's life, there will always be those who think they know manufacturer is wrong and try to "improve" upon it.
Gauze filters (oiled filtering media) are the biggest "snake oil" since original snake oil remedy. But just like with "which oil is more better," argument, filter argument is as much productive.

Cheers...

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: How dirty are you air filters?
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2017, 07:45:20 pm »
I'll probably buy another stock filter as I'm not a fan of the K&N Gauze type.
Always liked the Foam on a C-10.

Do they make a foam filter for the C-14?

Ride safe, Ted

No, OEM is pleated fibre/paper and screen construction. I don't think I've seen one yet, that at 20k was still clean enough to call ok.
HiFlow makes one, simlar in material, and I intend to try one on my next change...
While I did use a K&N in my C10, and cleaned and oiled it yearly using K&N aerosol spray oil, which allows and prevents "over oiling" to get correct covereage, I won't use one in the C14, due to the sensors, and difficulty just getting to the filter to maintain the integrety.. didn't mind a small bit of oil in the C10 airbox, but I don't want anything in the C14 other than clean air.

30 YEARS OF KAW.....Rich R. (the other one..)  COG 5977  JUSTAMEMBAHNOW

Offline Just Cliff

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Re: How dirty are you air filters?
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2017, 11:03:40 pm »
I'll probably buy another stock filter as I'm not a fan of the K&N Gauze type.
Always liked the Foam on a C-10.

Do they make a foam filter for the C-14?

Ride safe, Ted

No, OEM is pleated fibre/paper and screen construction. I don't think I've seen one yet, that at 20k was still clean enough to call ok.
HiFlow makes one, simlar in material, and I intend to try one on my next change...
While I did use a K&N in my C10, and cleaned and oiled it yearly using K&N aerosol spray oil, which allows and prevents "over oiling" to get correct covereage, I won't use one in the C14, due to the sensors, and difficulty just getting to the filter to maintain the integrety.. didn't mind a small bit of oil in the C10 airbox, but I don't want anything in the C14 other than clean air.

I'm not the sharpest knife in the draw, but I would like to be enlightened as to why a K&N is problem. I've used them as long as I can remember.

I've only had one in my C14 for the past 170,000 miles. Never a problem, runs great gets 48-50 mpg with EVO flash. Maybe not enough time for a problem to appear, guess I need to ride some more.

Cliff   :beerchug:

Offline RoadKillHeaven

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Re: How dirty are you air filters?
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2017, 12:41:43 am »
K&N filters are fine as long as they aren't used in MAF controlled induction system. Speed density or carburetors are fine as long as you understand "extended" service intervals advertized by K&N is nothing but a clever marketing to induce sales.
I've used K&N in a Jeeps with no ill effects.
I will never use oiled gauze filter in Turbo, diesel or MAF equipped engines.
I've dealt with people's ignorance when their vehicles developed drivability issues. Only to confirm the culprit was in fact K&N filter skewing MAF readings to the point of MIL on.

Ignorance is bliss, but it could cost you in the long run.

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: How dirty are you air filters?
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2017, 01:58:20 am »
I'll probably buy another stock filter as I'm not a fan of the K&N Gauze type.
Always liked the Foam on a C-10.

Do they make a foam filter for the C-14?

Ride safe, Ted

No, OEM is pleated fibre/paper and screen construction. I don't think I've seen one yet, that at 20k was still clean enough to call ok.
HiFlow makes one, simlar in material, and I intend to try one on my next change...
While I did use a K&N in my C10, and cleaned and oiled it yearly using K&N aerosol spray oil, which allows and prevents "over oiling" to get correct covereage, I won't use one in the C14, due to the sensors, and difficulty just getting to the filter to maintain the integrety.. didn't mind a small bit of oil in the C10 airbox, but I don't want anything in the C14 other than clean air.

I'm not the sharpest knife in the draw, but I would like to be enlightened as to why a K&N is problem. I've used them as long as I can remember.

I've only had one in my C14 for the past 170,000 miles. Never a problem, runs great gets 48-50 mpg with EVO flash. Maybe not enough time for a problem to appear, guess I need to ride some more.

Cliff   :beerchug:

I didn't say don't use it ..blah blah blah...

I said I choose not to. I don't want an oiled filter, in my airbox, on a bike that was designed for, and delivered with, a dry, non oiled air filter..
I'm not the dullest knife in the drawer, but I know the difference, and if Kaw saw fit to install a cleanable and oilable air filter, in this application... I'm sure it would have came like that... like its 20 year production predecessor...

You can use whatever you want, I only said it was MY choice, not to...

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Offline Sailor_chic

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Re: How dirty are you air filters?
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2017, 01:16:06 pm »
I'll probably buy another stock filter as I'm not a fan of the K&N Gauze type.
Always liked the Foam on a C-10.

Do they make a foam filter for the C-14?

Ride safe, Ted

No, OEM is pleated fibre/paper and screen construction. I don't think I've seen one yet, that at 20k was still clean enough to call ok.
HiFlow makes one, simlar in material, and I intend to try one on my next change...
While I did use a K&N in my C10, and cleaned and oiled it yearly using K&N aerosol spray oil, which allows and prevents "over oiling" to get correct covereage, I won't use one in the C14, due to the sensors, and difficulty just getting to the filter to maintain the integrety.. didn't mind a small bit of oil in the C10 airbox, but I don't want anything in the C14 other than clean air.

I'm not the sharpest knife in the draw, but I would like to be enlightened as to why a K&N is problem. I've used them as long as I can remember.

I've only had one in my C14 for the past 170,000 miles. Never a problem, runs great gets 48-50 mpg with EVO flash. Maybe not enough time for a problem to appear, guess I need to ride some more.

Cliff   :beerchug:

Im with Cliff on this. I have been using them for many, many years on my bikes and cars and have never had a problem. I dont know if there is a performance increase, nor do I care, but I can say that I have saved a lot of money by cleaning these elements and not replacing with OEM filters.


K&N filters are fine as long as they aren't used in MAF controlled induction system. Speed density or carburetors are fine as long as you understand "extended" service intervals advertized by K&N is nothing but a clever marketing to induce sales.
I've used K&N in a Jeeps with no ill effects.
I will never use oiled gauze filter in Turbo, diesel or MAF equipped engines.
I've dealt with people's ignorance when their vehicles developed drivability issues. Only to confirm the culprit was in fact K&N filter skewing MAF readings to the point of MIL on.

Ignorance is bliss, but it could cost you in the long run.


With my mechanical experience that I am involved with at my work, I am responsible for maintaining 8 diesel engines. About 3 years ago, we had to have one of our large generators replaced. Anyways, they installed a "state of the art"  John Deere 6.5L engine that turns the Marathon generator. Yes these are turbo and electronic fuel injection. Right from the factory these units come with K&N filters. Every 400 hours of engine time, this and all engines get oil and filter changes. And with this new gen, I have cleaned and oiled the air filter countless times.
So if the engineers at John Deere have calculated that these are a quality filtering element, then Im think there good enough for my stuff too.
Nicole     Port St Lucie, FL.
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2006 Vmax
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Offline seagiant1

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Re: How dirty are you air filters?
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2017, 02:16:10 pm »
Hi,
      I'm not going to get into the K&N thing....

I'm learning here lately to stick with OEM parts not only on a bike but even my old pick-up!

Maybe because of the market being flooded with Chi-Com aftermarket stuff!

One thing I did want to mention (looking at those fuel filters!) is I was talking "fuel" on another thread with Matt.

He mentioned that we should all try to use a good name brand hi grade fuel in our Connies!

Less dirt, less water, ect., even though it is a little more expensive than the Econo-brands!

I admittedly, had not thought of that, and is now what I try to do!

Just sayin! ;D
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Offline Just Cliff

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Re: How dirty are you air filters?
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2017, 02:39:12 pm »
I'll probably buy another stock filter as I'm not a fan of the K&N Gauze type.
Always liked the Foam on a C-10.

Do they make a foam filter for the C-14?

Ride safe, Ted

No, OEM is pleated fibre/paper and screen construction. I don't think I've seen one yet, that at 20k was still clean enough to call ok.
HiFlow makes one, simlar in material, and I intend to try one on my next change...
While I did use a K&N in my C10, and cleaned and oiled it yearly using K&N aerosol spray oil, which allows and prevents "over oiling" to get correct covereage, I won't use one in the C14, due to the sensors, and difficulty just getting to the filter to maintain the integrety.. didn't mind a small bit of oil in the C10 airbox, but I don't want anything in the C14 other than clean air.

I'm not the sharpest knife in the draw, but I would like to be enlightened as to why a K&N is problem. I've used them as long as I can remember.

I've only had one in my C14 for the past 170,000 miles. Never a problem, runs great gets 48-50 mpg with EVO flash. Maybe not enough time for a problem to appear, guess I need to ride some more.

Cliff   :beerchug:

I didn't say don't use it ..blah blah blah...

I said I choose not to. I don't want an oiled filter, in my airbox, on a bike that was designed for, and delivered with, a dry, non oiled air filter..
I'm not the dullest knife in the drawer, but I know the difference, and if Kaw saw fit to install a cleanable and oilable air filter, in this application... I'm sure it would have came like that... like its 20 year production predecessor...

You can use whatever you want, I only said it was MY choice, not to...

I simply asked for explanation as to why a K&N is a problem. All I got was blah blah blah & that everything should be left as it came from the factory. So I assume your bike is 100% stock. Kawasaki doesn't want you to have a slip on, better seat, shield or anything else.

I use K&N simply because I ride my bike enough that it requires servicing more than once every couple years. More like twice a year, I want to clean it not constantly replace it.

I've had a K&N in long enough, maybe longer than anyone here. If there's a problem it should have reared it's ugly head by now.

I'm done here!

Cliff   :beerchug:

 

Offline Goldenhornplayer

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Re: How dirty are you air filters?
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2017, 04:03:41 pm »
Many years ago, when K&N was first introduced, I recall that the claim of increased air flow was due to the pleated design and not to greater porosity of the element. Back in those days, I believe OEM filters were mainly not pleated so the K&N approach yielded greater surface area and that resulted in greater air flow. Since then, pleated filters have become much more common and that seems to negate the advantage that K&N once had. Of course, the remaining advantage is having a filter that can be cleaned rather than replaced.
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