Author Topic: I always use 87 octane  (Read 1934 times)

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Offline cuda

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I always use 87 octane
« on: July 14, 2019, 12:10:02 am »
I've had 4 cars that said use premium fuel, always used 87, my bike has had 87 or 90 off-road since new, never a problem or knock...

https://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/to-save-money-on-gas-stop-buying-premium.html
https://youtu.be/FPPkPAbzwbU
« Last Edit: July 14, 2019, 12:15:10 am by cuda »
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Offline cra-z1000

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Re: I always use 87 octane
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2019, 12:40:31 am »
My old Dodge and my 87 connie does fine . My Saab not at all . I've heard my Dad say never to use premium but I drove his Lexus once and it was knocking pretty bad  :rotflmao:
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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: I always use 87 octane
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2019, 02:36:27 am »
It's all good until it isn't.  :-\ :-\

Funny thing, I had a conversation with a customer who has just come back from a 5000 mile trip, running my flash and 87 octane. He's an SAE master tech. Has no issues running 87 octane, droning on the interstate. He kind of wanted to feel me out on my thoughts. I said he can do as he pleases, but I can't endorse it. It might be fine under light throttle conditions, but I have to wonder, what about the guy who does a 2500 rpm / 6th gear wot roll on because "he can"? What then? And how many is the magic number before there's a problem? I know premium is about .50 a gal more than 87, but dammit, have you seen the cost of a new engine lately?  :-[  Steve

 
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Offline ginzburg

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Re: I always use 87 octane
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2019, 03:50:57 am »
It seems like most of the gas stations in my area price 89 octane $.10 more than 87 and 91 is $.20 more than 87. It seems like this has never changed as long as I can remember. I even just checked Gasbuddy so it isn't my imagination. Ethanol free premium can be $.50 more though. At $.20 per gallon that might save $25 in 5000 miles. I would have a hard time paying what some way out of the way stations charge for their premium though.




Offline cra-z1000

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Re: I always use 87 octane
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2019, 11:02:48 am »
Sometimes the premium has been sitting in the tanks for a looooong time in rural area stations .
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Offline freebird6

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Re: I always use 87 octane
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2019, 12:22:46 pm »
It seems like most of the gas stations in my area price 89 octane $.10 more than 87 and 91 is $.20 more than 87. It seems like this has never changed as long as I can remember. I even just checked Gasbuddy so it isn't my imagination. Ethanol free premium can be $.50 more though. At $.20 per gallon that might save $25 in 5000 miles. I would have a hard time paying what some way out of the way stations charge for their premium though.

I do not know where you live. THat is what things USED to be....about a dime a grade. I have kept gas records since I started driving and bought my first car in 1975. I can show you the jump from  49 cents to 1.63 in Chicago in 1976.  I noticed in 2015 we started bumping to 20 to 50 cents each octane jump. 

Kind of sucks. Always wondered if there is that much difference in the refining process to justify the cost between each grade.


EDIT. Now I am really curious where you live as looking at GasBuddy shows Everette WA, Port Washington WA, Salem, OR etc all show the same 20 to 40 cent gradations as we see here.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2019, 12:58:55 pm by freebird6 »

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: I always use 87 octane
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2019, 12:25:13 pm »
I think it also should be noted that the ECU in our c-14's is old school, and there is no knock sensor to retard the timing, should knock occur. In my experience, knock on a motorcycle isn't anywhere near as loud as it is in an automotive engine. And then there's the helmet thing...
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Offline BigK

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Re: I always use 87 octane
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2019, 01:36:30 pm »
It maybe in my head but I think I get better mpg and power with the higher octane. Plus average tank of gas is 5 gal. at 50 cents/gal that is only $2.50. Small price for peace of mind. Just gets me, pay $13,000 plus for a high performance machine then want to feed it hotdogs instead of steak. But hey it is your bike you can do what you want.
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Offline khager01

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Re: I always use 87 octane
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2019, 01:37:52 pm »
With my helmet on and earplugs in, not to mention my hearing loss, I doubt if I could detect any engine knocking. :))  In SO-CAL the difference is .10-.15 each grade change.  In TX it is .25-.30.   Some stations are more of a jump, but I can find plenty of stations at those price differentials in these two areas.  Granted the Premium in TX is 93 vs. 91 in CA.  And of course gas overall is much cheaper in TX.  Regardless as Steve said it's much cheaper than a new engine. 
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Re: I always use 87 octane
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2019, 01:54:11 pm »
I've seen engines damaged by octane knock. It ain't pretty...

I use Prem. as I don't want to take any chance's...
and {considering the cost of a repair} it's not that expensive to do...

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Offline Grant

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Re: I always use 87 octane
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2019, 02:21:13 pm »
Sometimes the premium has been sitting in the tanks for a looooong time in rural area stations .
This is also a thought and when ethanol attracts water.  When water and ethanol mix they separate from the gasoline making the gasoline ethanol free but not good for two reasons. 1 although water can be used to remove ethanol from fuel the water and ethanol must be allowed to settle out and in the station  tanks or your vehicles tank this does not happen, all you get is water in you fuel system. 2  Because ethanol must be added to the fuel (for environmental reasons) anyway and it has a side affect of raising octane the cheaper way to high octane is to just let the added ethanol do it. Bottom line is even if you use a clear container and let the ethanol and water separate out in order  to get ethanol free fuel you have also lowered the octane rating and have no idea what the octane of the fuel you now have is.. The worst thing about the whole using ethanol to oxygenate fuel for cleaner air is the negative effects far outweigh any negligible benefits if any at all. Fact we just don't  have evil villains out there wanting to pollute our planet but we do have evil villains who have discovered many was to use fear of a polluted planet to separate you from the green money in your wallet.... Most people really want to do the right thing but when it comes to environmental issues step back look at the big picture, follow the money and you will see a huge number of scams and failed policies. Oh and don't even get me started on diesel emissions scams.
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Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: I always use 87 octane
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2019, 03:54:33 pm »
Just an FYI.  Every oil change I do on my C14 I send a sample to Blackstone for their complete analysis (extra cost from their basic analysis)
One time my friend rented a BMW1600 GT. We swapped bikes so I could try  out the BMW.  My friend wanted to try out my bike.  He left me  and that BMW in the dust  and did want to give me back my bike.  When he stopped for fuel he put regular gas in my C14.
My next oil change Blackstone came back with a really bad report. All the metal contaminate readings were through the roof.   I had to do multiple oil changes at 1,000  mile intervals  as directed by Blackstone to get the readings back down to normal .
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: I always use 87 octane
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2019, 08:10:50 pm »
I've had 4 cars that said use premium fuel, always used 87, my bike has had 87 or 90 off-road since new, never a problem or knock...

https://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/to-save-money-on-gas-stop-buying-premium.html


It's "internet spread simplicity" on subjects like this, that tend to be taken as a "general" go ahead, 'it must be ok, I saw it on the net" sort of thing...
when in reality, if analyzed closely, the person writing the article pretty much "tosses out an idea/opinion", but does not completely explain the ramifications for mis interpretation.. then, in the context of the article "kinda back tracks" and says "it may be fine, but it's up to you to experiment"... totally making the written statements moot.

This is why I recently posed a question about Octane and the use on the C14 when a MRP or Hammer flash was done. And asked how we could insure to have a high enough point value, when on the road, and find 91 un avaialble (if by chance)..

so the end result, is as Steve says... "yeah, you CAN run a lower octane......but you CAN"T do full throttle blasting with it..."  and I agree, I ca understand this.. but why in the world, would I even consider trying to run a reduced octane, in my bike, to save a few $ at most per fill, when I can't twist my throttle fully open... THAT is why I wanted a flash in the first place.. to MAKE H.P., and enjoy FULL THROTTLE...

prior to the flash, I had been running both 87 and 89 octane, and once in a while 90, but I could tell the difference even unflashed, when doing higher gear roll ons, demanding the engine to "work harder".

pricing here in Ohio, where I bought fuel last week, was $3.59 / gallon of 90 octane 100% gasoline, and for my newly flashed bike $3.49 / gallon for 92 octane 10% Ethanol blend...

« Last Edit: July 14, 2019, 09:33:45 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

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Offline Kreton'sLC

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Re: I always use 87 octane
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2019, 09:28:38 pm »
It maybe in my head but I think I get better mpg and power with the higher octane. Plus average tank of gas is 5 gal. at 50 cents/gal that is only $2.50. Small price for peace of mind.

 :great: . . . and I'm about as cheap as they come.  I've got a pretty light throttle hand, still have the stock flash (though Steve's is on my wish list), ride in ECO mode most of the time, and have yet to average less than 46 mpg/tank which I think is phenomenal for a big inline 4.  I also pay about $2.50 a tank more for premium, but given the great mpg, feel it's worth it.
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Offline freebird6

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Re: I always use 87 octane
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2019, 10:34:42 pm »
It maybe in my head but I think I get better mpg and power with the higher octane. Plus average tank of gas is 5 gal. at 50 cents/gal that is only $2.50. Small price for peace of mind.

 :great: . . . and I'm about as cheap as they come.  I've got a pretty light throttle hand, still have the stock flash (though Steve's is on my wish list), ride in ECO mode most of the time, and have yet to average less than 46 mpg/tank which I think is phenomenal for a big inline 4.  I also pay about $2.50 a tank more for premium, but given the great mpg, feel it's worth it.

I keep talking to my wife about the MPG advantages and how taking the bike everywhere is helping the enviroment, saving money.....blah blah blah.... But then she says...."your 17 miles to the office turns into a 70 mile trip home so it's kind of a wash"

Offline Road Runner

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Re: I always use 87 octane
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2019, 12:01:18 am »
I've seen engines damaged by octane knock. It ain't pretty...

I use Prem. as I don't want to take any chance's...
and {considering the cost of a repair} it's not that expensive to do...

Ride safe, Ted

+1 Me too. I've drove out of stations that I learned did not had premium, in search of one that did.
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Offline ghostrider990

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Re: I always use 87 octane
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2019, 10:14:06 am »
I've had 4 cars that said use premium fuel, always used 87, my bike has had 87 or 90 off-road since new, never a problem or knock...


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Offline Conrad

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Re: I always use 87 octane
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2019, 11:19:29 am »
Just an FYI.  Every oil change I do on my C14 I send a sample to Blackstone for their complete analysis (extra cost from their basic analysis)
One time my friend rented a BMW1600 GT. We swapped bikes so I could try  out the BMW.  My friend wanted to try out my bike.  He left me  and that BMW in the dust  and did want to give me back my bike.  When he stopped for fuel he put regular gas in my C14.
My next oil change Blackstone came back with a really bad report. All the metal contaminate readings were through the roof.   I had to do multiple oil changes at 1,000  mile intervals  as directed by Blackstone to get the readings back down to normal .

And you feel that the one fill of 87 octane caused the metal contamination of your oil? Don't get me wrong, I always use premium in my bike but I don't think that one fill of regular gas would cause the issues you're describing.

YMMV
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Offline cuda

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Re: I always use 87 octane
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2019, 12:40:12 pm »
 :rotflmao: :72: :57: :85: :clap: :08: O:-)
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Offline Daboo

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Re: I always use 87 octane
« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2019, 03:35:55 pm »
Back when gas was 19¢ a gallon, we used to drive across the street to get it at 17¢ a gallon.  And when it went to 23¢ a gallon...oh!, the horror!

In recent years, gas in the Seattle area has varied in the $3 to $4 range.  I quit worrying about the price per gallon and just look for good quality gas.  At home, I fill up at Costco.  With the quantity they pump, I know it is fresh.  On the road, I know it'll be more costly but that is the cost of riding my bike through those areas.

The price of Regular 87 octane gas at Costco today is $3.03 per gallon.  I think the cost of Premium 92 octane is $3.39.  The cost of Regular 87 octane in Maple Falls on the way up to Artist Point on Mt. Baker is @$3.20.  Premium is $3.999.  I don't care.  I pay the $3.999 simply because I want to get to one of the best rides for both roads and scenery in Washington State.  And I know that I'll pay that much at some point in the future even at Costco.  The price varies and I can't do anything but pay it.

Besides...how much does your tank hold?  On my BMW, I can't put in more than 4 gallons.  That's only $3.20 difference if I fill up with Regular vs Premium in Maple Falls...and less at home at Costco.

My BMW requires premium gas.  I've put lower octane gas in it occasionally, but not often.  It's just not worth it.  A better example is my Subaru Outback XT with a turbo-charged engine.  Subaru says to use only Premium gas.  I have a turbo because I like to feel the acceleration at times.  If I blow the engine and turbo because I'm too cheap to spend 36¢ more for a gallon of gas at Costco...it'll cost me about $8000 to get it running again.  It's false economy.

I've heard it said that the cheapest thing on a BMW is the rider.  I wonder if that isn't true for motorcyclists in general?  :D

Chris


« Last Edit: July 15, 2019, 03:39:56 pm by Daboo »
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: I always use 87 octane
« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2019, 07:15:03 pm »
Just an FYI.  Every oil change I do on my C14 I send a sample to Blackstone for their complete analysis (extra cost from their basic analysis)
One time my friend rented a BMW1600 GT. We swapped bikes so I could try  out the BMW.  My friend wanted to try out my bike.  He left me  and that BMW in the dust  and did want to give me back my bike.  When he stopped for fuel he put regular gas in my C14.
My next oil change Blackstone came back with a really bad report. All the metal contaminate readings were through the roof.   I had to do multiple oil changes at 1,000  mile intervals  as directed by Blackstone to get the readings back down to normal .

And you feel that the one fill of 87 octane caused the metal contamination of your oil? Don't get me wrong, I always use premium in my bike but I don't think that one fill of regular gas would cause the issues you're describing.

YMMV

I kinda "rolled my eyes" on that comment also, but figured... "hey, if you want to triple the cost of yearly oil changes... go right ahead".
 :rotflmao: :truce: :-X :rotflmao:

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Offline cuda

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Re: I always use 87 octane
« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2019, 08:32:38 pm »
I've never sent in a sample but I will this time,

I've never heard any type of knock, been dealing with HP motors since the late 60's pretty good at reading spark plugs.
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Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: I always use 87 octane
« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2019, 12:41:16 am »
Just an FYI.  Every oil change I do on my C14 I send a sample to Blackstone for their complete analysis (extra cost from their basic analysis)
One time my friend rented a BMW1600 GT. We swapped bikes so I could try  out the BMW.  My friend wanted to try out my bike.  He left me  and that BMW in the dust  and did want to give me back my bike.  When he stopped for fuel he put regular gas in my C14.
My next oil change Blackstone came back with a really bad report. All the metal contaminate readings were through the roof.   I had to do multiple oil changes at 1,000  mile intervals  as directed by Blackstone to get the readings back down to normal .

And you feel that the one fill of 87 octane caused the metal contamination of your oil? Don't get me wrong, I always use premium in my bike but I don't think that one fill of regular gas would cause the issues you're describing.


YMMV
Has nothing to do with 'feel'. I am not stating any opinions.  I did not say it was  one  fill either .
We rode  the bikes all day at WOT (At least at every chance we could). My bike with Full AreaP at WOT does 172...(GPS indicated) The BMW  was governed at 145. That is why I could not catch him. It was more than just one tank.
  Why did you assume 'Just one tank?'    I guess I should have been more specific..  ' When he STOPPED for FUEL  he was putting regular in the tank each time he stopped...' :)                                  I did not see him when he  put fuel in my tank (multiple times) because I was not there..remember .. he out-ran me.                         He told me later he put regular gas in the tank -multiple times - when he stopped for gas. Exactly how many times that was I do not know- I was not with him at the pump(s) when he filled the tank...

I am sorry I miss-led you. I will strive to be more detailed and more specific in the future.
 Let me try and be pre-preemptive so you dont  have to roll your eyes (not you Conrad-MOB).

Have I ever ran the bike at WOT with High test gas  and received  a bad Blackstone Report? 
I have held the bike wide open many times  using high test fuel and have not gotten a bad report from Blackstone.
  The only time I got a bad report was when regular was used.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2019, 02:00:07 am by Daytona_Mike »
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Offline Conrad

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Re: I always use 87 octane
« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2019, 11:26:06 am »
Just an FYI.  Every oil change I do on my C14 I send a sample to Blackstone for their complete analysis (extra cost from their basic analysis)
One time my friend rented a BMW1600 GT. We swapped bikes so I could try  out the BMW.  My friend wanted to try out my bike.  He left me  and that BMW in the dust  and did want to give me back my bike.  When he stopped for fuel he put regular gas in my C14.
My next oil change Blackstone came back with a really bad report. All the metal contaminate readings were through the roof.   I had to do multiple oil changes at 1,000  mile intervals  as directed by Blackstone to get the readings back down to normal .

And you feel that the one fill of 87 octane caused the metal contamination of your oil? Don't get me wrong, I always use premium in my bike but I don't think that one fill of regular gas would cause the issues you're describing.


YMMV
Has nothing to do with 'feel'. I am not stating any opinions.  I did not say it was  one  fill either .
We rode  the bikes all day at WOT (At least at every chance we could). My bike with Full AreaP at WOT does 172...(GPS indicated) The BMW  was governed at 145. That is why I could not catch him. It was more than just one tank.
  Why did you assume 'Just one tank?'    I guess I should have been more specific..  ' When he STOPPED for FUEL  he was putting regular in the tank each time he stopped...' :)                                  I did not see him when he  put fuel in my tank (multiple times) because I was not there..remember .. he out-ran me.                         He told me later he put regular gas in the tank -multiple times - when he stopped for gas. Exactly how many times that was I do not know- I was not with him at the pump(s) when he filled the tank...

I am sorry I miss-led you. I will strive to be more detailed and more specific in the future.
 Let me try and be pre-preemptive so you dont  have to roll your eyes (not you Conrad-MOB).

Have I ever ran the bike at WOT with High test gas  and received  a bad Blackstone Report? 
I have held the bike wide open many times  using high test fuel and have not gotten a bad report from Blackstone.
  The only time I got a bad report was when regular was used.

"Why did you assume 'Just one tank?' "

See the bolded section of your post above. That's why I assumed 'Just one tank'. My mistake.
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Offline Phil

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Re: I always use 87 octane
« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2019, 03:53:19 pm »
I think it also should be noted that the ECU in our c-14's is old school, and there is no knock sensor to retard the timing, should knock occur. In my experience, knock on a motorcycle isn't anywhere near as loud as it is in an automotive engine. And then there's the helmet thing...
Steve

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
THIS

The car's computer will adjust to prevent preignition and the C14 will not. Of course that means when you run lower octane in said car, you will get less power out of the engine when the computer adjusts to prevent preignition, but the engine won't be damaged.