Author Topic: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14  (Read 7327 times)

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Offline Pittsburgh_Clem

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Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #50 on: August 29, 2017, 10:56:43 pm »
 :popcorncouple: :popcorncouple: :popcorncouple: :popcorncouple: :popcorncouple: :popcorncouple:
May favorite post all year. I dun red ever word
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Offline rcannon409

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Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #51 on: August 29, 2017, 11:46:50 pm »
Steve, I do have a question, regarding the chart you show.  Is the 138hp run, done with a slip on or stock muffler?  Reading the text,  It leads me to believe it is a slip on, but not quite sure.

Bilbur, this bike is power limited by its exhaust.  Ivan can't make more power, with the stock header, from what he's told me.  He said a full exhaust will offer the 160hp, as we've seen on the area p/ fuel moto page.

This flash is brand new.  Been out for about 1 week, just before he went on vacation.

So far, he has two flashes, stock and slip on.  The full exhaust is upcoming. 

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Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #52 on: August 30, 2017, 12:04:23 am »
+1 What Steve said. Keep it honest, factual and forthright. Own what you say. Steve has and will continue to get my money.
Unfortunately rcannon it looks like you may have hurt Ivan more than helped. Unintended consequences!
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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #53 on: August 30, 2017, 12:33:45 am »
Steve, I do have a question, regarding the chart you show.  Is the 138hp run, done with a slip on or stock muffler?  Reading the text,  It leads me to believe it is a slip on, but not quite sure.

Bilbur, this bike is power limited by its exhaust.  Ivan can't make more power, with the stock header, from what he's told me.  He said a full exhaust will offer the 160hp, as we've seen on the area p/ fuel moto page.

This flash is brand new.  Been out for about 1 week, just before he went on vacation.

So far, he has two flashes, stock and slip on.  The full exhaust is upcoming.
  138 was stock, stock muffler.stock. Here again, like I've said many times, you can't race dyno charts. And in the light of full disclosure, i removed my original two runs done on Chris Jones' dyno because I couldn't closely replicate them on my dyno. In that chart, my bike did a best of 128 stock and 142 with my flash on the stock muffler.A 14 hp gain. My dyno does not show that much gain, so in the interest of moving all future work onto my dyno I posted the stock vs evo chart you linked to. I'm also flattered that you and Ivan have taken such an interest in running my work down, apparently I struck a sensitive spot... And imagine, I did that with my first flash! Steve
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Offline Egodriver71

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Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #54 on: August 30, 2017, 10:23:55 am »
Don't worry Steve, I'm still sending mine to you instead of anyone else  :beerchug:
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Offline DanZX14

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Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #55 on: August 30, 2017, 02:15:35 pm »
All we are missing (or not) it that Ivan's comes in here and give HIS opinion.
Funny that his products are named here and there and he did not drop in??
Since he has no email, maybe he doesn't have a computer too??? ;) lol

It starting to look like a movie could be done out of this story. :)


Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #56 on: August 30, 2017, 02:52:53 pm »
All we are missing (or not) it that Ivan's comes in here and give HIS opinion.
Funny that his products are named here and there and he did not drop in??
Since he has no email, maybe he doesn't have a computer too??? ;) lol

It starting to look like a movie could be done out of this story. :)
Ivan is very real, and has earned a strong reputation for his tuning even with carburetion. What is interesting is that his tuning philosophy and mine parallel each other. To me, it is a mature and complete approach to tuning the entirety of throttle position and engine use from idle on up. Not an easy way to tune but it gives the best results. What is sad / surprising / short sighted on this thread is that it focused on dyno charts derived with different bikes but more importantly on different dynos. This is the worst way to judge a tune imo, because you cannot dragrace dyno charts from different dynos, and it completely ignores the everyday riding characteristics and personality of the tune. Personally I have no doubt Ivan did a very good tune in many areas. In the end the tune a person likes will come down to the personality of the tune and how it works for them. My tunes have noticeably different personalities and riders tend to prefer one tune over another because of that personality. In the final analysis personal preferences will really be the only factor that matters between Ivan's flash and mine. $teve
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Offline Bilbur

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Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #57 on: August 30, 2017, 02:59:49 pm »
Bilbur, this bike is power limited by its exhaust.  Ivan can't make more power, with the stock header, from what he's told me.  He said a full exhaust will offer the 160hp, as we've seen on the area p/ fuel moto page.

This flash is brand new.  Been out for about 1 week, just before he went on vacation.

So far, he has two flashes, stock and slip on.  The full exhaust is upcoming.

You're just selling Steve's product for me even more then. I wouldn't buy Ivan's product simply because he doesn't have anything for my application. And yes, I know that the aftermarket header makes the difference. But, why would I buy the incorrect flash for my bike?

But, then you bury Ivan's flash a little bit more buy saying his flash is only a week old. AND he hasn't even developed a full exhaust flash.

Sorry bud, but Steve has not only developed his product over YEARS with consumer feedback and reviews, and his product has a very deep following of very satisfied customers that have flooded this forum with positive story after positive story.


Buy what you want from who you want. But as Steve warned you before. Tread carefully when you speak out against another company that offers competing products. If you poke that bear to hard you could find yourself in a legal buzz saw.

And btw, I don't think anyone here as spoken against Ivan's options for a C14 flash. YOU haven't been a great ambassador for his product but, that's separate I suppose from what Ivan's product most likely is.

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Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #58 on: August 30, 2017, 03:57:00 pm »
It doesn't  get more forthright than this, Steve is defending Ivan's work ethic, even in the face of rcannon's posts.
Which I suppose is only right since it isn't Ivan who posted the comments. However he did apparently use Steve's Dyno Chart on his web page without crediting them to Steve. Except by insinuation. And therein lies the rub. This is another reason we should never erase or change history. It is the only way to verify the true facts.
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Offline Hiddenmickey

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Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #59 on: August 30, 2017, 06:40:04 pm »
It doesn't  get more forthright than this, Steve is defending Ivan's work ethic, even in the face of rcannon's posts.
Which I suppose is only right since it isn't Ivan who posted the comments. However he did apparently use Steve's Dyno Chart on his web page without crediting them to Steve. Except by insinuation. And therein lies the rub. This is another reason we should never erase or change history. It is the only way to verify the true facts.


Do we really know Ivan and rcannon are not the same person?  Has anyone seen them in the same room together?

Offline Bilbur

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Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #60 on: August 30, 2017, 07:08:16 pm »
 :hee20hee20hee:
It doesn't  get more forthright than this, Steve is defending Ivan's work ethic, even in the face of rcannon's posts.
Which I suppose is only right since it isn't Ivan who posted the comments. However he did apparently use Steve's Dyno Chart on his web page without crediting them to Steve. Except by insinuation. And therein lies the rub. This is another reason we should never erase or change history. It is the only way to verify the true facts.


Do we really know Ivan and rcannon are not the same person?  Has anyone seen them in the same room together?

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #61 on: August 30, 2017, 11:22:32 pm »
sorry guys....
   So this is what's left of rcannon's post directing folks to Ivan's "concours page 2". Fortunately folks on ths thread quoted his post, so there's no denying it. The page has also been taken down from Ivan's site. Apparently someone has come to thier senses after my comparison post of my stock run with Ivan's stock run, and they realised the error of their ways. So as far as I'm concerned, rcannon accused me of dishonest business practce publically on this thread, and now he needs to be a man about it and give ME an apology and a public retraction of any statements even insinuating I have been dishonest. Steve
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Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #62 on: August 30, 2017, 11:48:08 pm »
+1 Steve and Ivan also owes you an apology for publishing your graph without permission or credit.
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Offline turbo-max

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Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #63 on: August 30, 2017, 11:48:52 pm »
sorry guys....
   So this is what's left of rcannon's post directing folks to Ivan's "concours page 2". Fortunately folks on ths thread quoted his post, so there's no denying it. The page has also been taken down from Ivan's site. Apparently someone has come to thier senses after my comparison post of my stock run with Ivan's stock run, and they realised the error of their ways. So as far as I'm concerned, rcannon accused me of dishonest business practce publically on this thread, and now he needs to be a man about it and give ME an apology and a public retraction of any statements even insinuating I have been dishonest. Steve

very good way to clear this up before it turns in a legal mess....


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Offline Old Man on a Connie

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Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #64 on: August 31, 2017, 12:04:41 am »
RC I have an offer. Will you be at the Wild Wasatch Rally in Provo in Sept? If so I will offer to let you ride my 2011 with a Leo Vince slip on and Steves Evo flash and I can ride your scoot with Ivans. Then we can compare notes butt Cheek to butt Cheek. Fair? No dyno just awesome Utah roads and a right wrist. Not a race. Straight up seat of the pants comparison. Now keep in mind I have a Baldwin Seat so it may skew some results  ;) For me it's about rideability, not pure HP. What say you? Look forward to seeing you in Provo regardless.
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Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #65 on: August 31, 2017, 12:47:49 am »
Cheek to Butt Cheek. :-\ I'd like to see a picture of that in the next Concourier. :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
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Offline Old Man on a Connie

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Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #66 on: August 31, 2017, 01:34:50 am »
Cheek to Butt Cheek. :-\ I'd like to see a picture of that in the next Concourier. :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
No you wouldn't  :-\ :))
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Offline cuda

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Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #67 on: August 31, 2017, 02:31:36 am »
Interesting. Competition for Shoodaben? I thought Steve was the only real game in town outside of Guhl.


He IS :P
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Offline rcannon409

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Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #68 on: August 31, 2017, 11:09:06 am »
RC I have an offer. Will you be at the Wild Wasatch Rally in Provo in Sept? If so I will offer to let you ride my 2011 with a Leo Vince slip on and Steves Evo flash and I can ride your scoot with Ivans. Then we can compare notes butt Cheek to butt Cheek. Fair? No dyno just awesome Utah roads and a right wrist. Not a race. Straight up seat of the pants comparison. Now keep in mind I have a Baldwin Seat so it may skew some results  ;) For me it's about rideability, not pure HP. What say you? Look forward to seeing you in Provo regardless.
Mark

You guys, I do feel badly that this thread drifted off like it did, and I am sorry  for that..


I SHOULD have known better than to respond in anger....should, I say. but did not.

Anyway, I had not planned to go to the rally.    I'm out of town, often, and plans like this always end up getting in the way of work.  Like my reservation for our rally, in Pocatello, Id from a  few years back.......yes, ended up in the middle of Nevada, working on a mine site.

I was just at White Knuckle, Motorsports. Mark, you have to stop in there.  They have a vintage Suzuki RGV 250 on the showroom floor.  Never saw one of those, before. 250, two stroke, v twin. Never available in the us, and the thing is Utah plated! They also have a inline 4, Ninja 400.  Not quite as cool, but unique.

Are your riding, this weekend?  I have a few hrs free, on Sunday, and planned on going somewhere.....   Our bikes are very similar.  I have the Leo Vince slip on, as well, but I am using the far superior Sargent seat.   Superior to what?  That I'm not sure, but I hated the stock seat.

 I was going to ride from West Jordan and end up out at that gas station in Delle, Ut.  (At this point Mark is probably laughing. All that is near Delle is a nearby Nuclear waste storage facility and one service station.)

 I wanted to ride to Delle just to see what my fuel mileage will be. Leaving, from my house will include a decent variety of conditions. Some uphill as I'm on the Mountain View corridor, but nothing is really exaggerated like it would be if I rode up Parleys, and went to Evanston.  Total mileage will be @ 125.

The text on you site is confusing.

I should have not said what I did.  I'd go back and erase it, but its been quoted, so that would not do much good. But I am sorry for saying what I did, and how Isaid it.

Is our onboard computer accurate enough for fuel mileage quotes?  My bike is a cal emissions bike and has a fill insert. It makes it very difficult to eyeball the fuel level and match the level from fill to fill.   

« Last Edit: August 31, 2017, 01:07:09 pm by rcannon409 »

Offline oldnslo_MO

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Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #69 on: August 31, 2017, 12:13:04 pm »
i have used ivan in the past for carb work and tuning,talked to him on several occasions, he has always been honest and delivered on what he stated.. on the other hand i am new to steve, but after a lenghtly phone conversation and question and answer session i have complete faith in steve, so much so that after he gets his butt off vacation i am sending him my ecu to flash, from a guhl flash to his..i am not berating ivan, steve or guhl,as steve stated each of us have different styles and expectations for the performance of our bikes..nothing is one size fits all, just like seats etc.. to each his own....if every body liked cadillacs, they wouldn't make fords and chevys etc... :deadhorse:
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Offline rcannon409

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Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #70 on: August 31, 2017, 01:10:54 pm »
Steve, this is copied from your web site....


"""See the dyno run below "stock Vs Evolution"; the evolution flash was built and depicted with an area P slipon, but all slipon's will have comparable performance. If you look at the torque traces, you'll see the Evolution flash has apx the same torque at 3000 rpm as the stock flash has at 5000 rpm, and more power everywhere. Not insignificant. """"""

Your site is confusing to me as the text above says that you are comparing just the flash....

Nowhere does it say that the comparison is an all stock bike vs. a bike with a slip-on and your flash.

I believe this is what caused all the drama.

« Last Edit: August 31, 2017, 01:17:38 pm by rcannon409 »

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Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #71 on: August 31, 2017, 02:08:18 pm »
  rcannon, I can both understand and question your confusion about what "Stock" means. I've been racing and building race bikes for 40 years. I'm not much of a "Tuner" that's best left to the guys who know how. What I do know is that "Stock" means just that. In any and all racing the things you can change in a Stock class is almost nothing. Tires, chain, sprockets and thats about it. Almost everyone I've ever talked, both racers and non racers understands this. Some sanctioning body are so restrictive that you're allowed to change nothing except tires. To compete under SCTA/BNI you can't even change or alter the wind screen.
  I can understand that a non rider might not distinguish the difference. I've never meet a rider who didn't know that stock meant "Stock" as unchanged as from the factory.
  When I first saw Steve's web site and looked at the comparison graphs the idea that "Stock" meant only the ECU did not even occur.
  For you or anyone else to continue challenging Steve's integrity is only digging the hole you're in deeper.


  You have apologized for some of the things you said earlier, accepted. BUT you have not apologized or expressed any remorse directly to Steve. He is the one you attacked. I've never even met the guy, but what I've personally experienced of him has always been above and way beyond.  He is a "Stand up guy". Are you?
« Last Edit: August 31, 2017, 03:08:46 pm by Deepsea »
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Offline Bilbur

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Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #72 on: August 31, 2017, 02:28:07 pm »
rcannon, just stop man. The more you call out Steve's website the more it looks like you're trying to catch him in a lie.

You're not only splitting hairs at this point but, you're just digging yourself a deeper and darker hole.



Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #73 on: August 31, 2017, 02:40:49 pm »
Steve, this is copied from your web site....


"""See the dyno run below "stock Vs Evolution"; the evolution flash was built and depicted with an area P slipon, but all slipon's will have comparable performance. If you look at the torque traces, you'll see the Evolution flash has apx the same torque at 3000 rpm as the stock flash has at 5000 rpm, and more power everywhere. Not insignificant. """"""

Your site is confusing to me as the text above says that you are comparing just the flash....

Nowhere does it say that the comparison is an all stock bike vs. a bike with a slip-on and your flash.

I believe this is what caused all the drama.
   So now it's my fault that I used the term "STOCK" properly ? Geez PLEASE STOP. Steve
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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #74 on: August 31, 2017, 03:15:39 pm »
Rcannon, if you want to continue, please explain this to me... How is it that you were so aware of Ivan's webste updates including the page where he called out a "competitor" for posting a manipulated chart, then when you realized YOU read my chart wrong suddenly Ivan removed that attack page? I really expect Ivan knows how to read dyno charts. It does not seem kosher that you both independently yet simultaneously decided you has misread my dyno charts. Things that make me go "Hmmmm". Steve
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