Concours Owners Group (COG) Forum

Concours 14 Discussion (C14 / ZG1400 / 1400GTR) => Concours 14 / ZG1400 General Chat and Tech => Topic started by: rcannon409 on August 21, 2017, 10:27:59 am

Title: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: rcannon409 on August 21, 2017, 10:27:59 am
Guys, I don’t know if you've seen this new page on Ivans site:
www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/ZG1400.htm (http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/ZG1400.htm)

His tuning philosophy and approach is listed on this page on his site.
www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/ecu.htm (http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/ecu.htm)

Lots of good info here. and the engine is smooth as silk.

His Concours 14 reflash is now available.  I know many of us who are using his Ninja 1000 flash have waited a long time for this.

Fueling and driveability is flawless and the engine is smooth as silk from idle up to its "new and improved" redline. Make no mistake, this bike now feels like a 1400.

Engine response is instant, silky smooth, light and revvy just as you would expect a first class tune to be.

My wife and I took the concours up to one of the local ski resorts.
It’s not much of a distance ride, but you gain elevation like crazy.

We start at my house which is 4500ft and finish at 10,500ft @ 30 miles
later.  I’ve had the bike up there before with original programming, and it was about halfway a
mess at the high altitude.  Especially the on/off throttle.  Her helmet was
constantly smacking mine.

With Ivan’s tuning, the bike was awesome up there. Of course, power dropped off, but the
character was still there and driveability remained flawless.

Another welcome change is how the bike is in traffic.


You cannot imagine how the traffic is on the highway leading to Idaho on 8-20-17  , and the
people who are going to watch the eclipse.  There’s only one road to get
to Idaho, and sadly, I had to be on it.

The fan kicks on sooner.  195 degrees on, 186, off.    On the 08, that is
huge.  Previously, I’ve stopped for fuel when I only had 2 gallons left,
just to cool the tank.   No need for that, now.   It gets warm, but I’ve
had it to the point where I was scared it would ignite when the bike was
stock.

I haven’t tested it for mileage yet because I’ve been having too much fun with it, but I will offer some mileage figures soon within the next week or so.

When discussing the Concours flash with Ivan, he informed me that it was developed with “on the road” as well as extensive time on his dyno. 

More than a year was invested in this bike reverse engineering the ecus for all the generations of C14’s, as well as the purchase of a brand new 2017 model for the tuning part of it, and also borrowing a 2008 model to transfer the work into and test before offering it for sale to us.

A sizeable investment of time and money to say the least.

I don’t work for Ivan, and I pay full price for any work that he does for me.
He has been tuning motorcycles for a living for more than 30 years, and has been in many of the magazines over the years for his abilities.

After riding my ninja 1000 that he re-flashed, as well as a friend’s fz09, this is the person I choose to tune my bikes.   

It is because of this, and his very thorough approach to all facets of his products is why I choose his work.

Ivan said he will be away until sept5, but after that, business as usual.
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: OKC14 on August 21, 2017, 12:00:16 pm
Interesting. Competition for Shoodaben? I thought Steve was the only real game in town outside of Guhl.
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: gsun on August 22, 2017, 03:24:57 am
What does he charge for the flash and what is the turn around? I guess I should ask him...
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: AmphibSailor on August 22, 2017, 09:31:28 am
Guys, I don’t know if you've seen this new page on Ivans site:
[url=http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/ZG1400.htm]www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/ZG1400.htm[/url] ([url]http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/ZG1400.htm[/url])

His tuning philosophy and approach is listed on this page on his site.
[url=http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/ecu.htm]www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/ecu.htm[/url] ([url]http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/ecu.htm[/url])

Lots of good info here. and the engine is smooth as silk.

His Concours 14 reflash is now available.  I know many of us who are using his Ninja 1000 flash have waited a long time for this.

Fueling and driveability is flawless and the engine is smooth as silk from idle up to its "new and improved" redline. Make no mistake, this bike now feels like a 1400.

Engine response is instant, silky smooth, light and revvy just as you would expect a first class tune to be.

My wife and I took the concours up to one of the local ski resorts.
It’s not much of a distance ride, but you gain elevation like crazy.

We start at my house which is 4500ft and finish at 10,500ft @ 30 miles
later.  I’ve had the bike up there before with original programming, and it was about halfway a
mess at the high altitude.  Especially the on/off throttle.  Her helmet was
constantly smacking mine.

With Ivan’s tuning, the bike was awesome up there. Of course, power dropped off, but the
character was still there and driveability remained flawless.

Another welcome change is how the bike is in traffic.


You cannot imagine how the traffic is on the highway leading to Idaho on 8-20-17  , and the
people who are going to watch the eclipse.  There’s only one road to get
to Idaho, and sadly, I had to be on it.

The fan kicks on sooner.  195 degrees on, 186, off.    On the 08, that is
huge.  Previously, I’ve stopped for fuel when I only had 2 gallons left,
just to cool the tank.   No need for that, now.   It gets warm, but I’ve
had it to the point where I was scared it would ignite when the bike was
stock.

I haven’t tested it for mileage yet because I’ve been having too much fun with it, but I will offer some mileage figures soon within the next week or so.

When discussing the Concours flash with Ivan, he informed me that it was developed with “on the road” as well as extensive time on his dyno. 

More than a year was invested in this bike reverse engineering the ecus for all the generations of C14’s, as well as the purchase of a brand new 2017 model for the tuning part of it, and also borrowing a 2008 model to transfer the work into and test before offering it for sale to us.

A sizeable investment of time and money to say the least.

I don’t work for Ivan, and I pay full price for any work that he does for me.
He has been tuning motorcycles for a living for more than 30 years, and has been in many of the magazines over the years for his abilities.

After riding my ninja 1000 that he re-flashed, as well as a friend’s fz09, this is the person I choose to tune my bikes.   

It is because of this, and his very thorough approach to all facets of his products is why I choose his work.

Ivan said he will be away until sept5, but after that, business as usual.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 11:47:51 am by Rev Ryder »



Hmmm. The initial post was by rcannon09...yet at the bottom of the original post it says that the post was edited by Rev Ryder.

« Last Edit: Yesterday at 11:47:51 am by Rev Ryder » :-\


Am I missing something?
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: EZ on August 22, 2017, 09:39:05 am
I think he changed the links so you don't have to copy and paste.
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: COGnosticator on August 22, 2017, 10:04:13 am
I don't know if he considers a C14 a sports bike but that fee is $800 - $1000   :-\

I am 100% satisfied with Steve's flash and like to support someone who not only supports COG, but is a COG member  :great:
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Egodriver71 on August 22, 2017, 10:18:47 am
I am 100% satisfied with Steve's flash and like to support someone who not only supports COG, but is a COG member  :great:

Agree 100%!!!
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Ranger Jim on August 22, 2017, 10:24:52 am
Let me see if I've got this straight. A Forum Subscriber (who is not a COG member) is writing up a review/advertisement for someone who is also not a COG member who has (allegedly) created a product to potentially compete with a long-time COG member/supporter.  ::)
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Bruce_Reafsnider_TN on August 22, 2017, 10:55:14 am
Competition is a good thing.  It's always good to have options.  I'd probably lean towards Shoodabeen Engineering but I have no reason to believe the results that the OP report are anything but legit.  Steve seems to be a good guy and appears to have made a great tune for our bikes but I'm not gonna bring out the tar & feathers for a guy who's brought another (seemingly) equally good product to our attention.
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: AmphibSailor on August 22, 2017, 11:11:46 am
Competition is a good thing.  It's always good to have options.  I'd probably lean towards Shoodabeen Engineering but I have no reason to believe the results that the OP report are anything but legit.  Steve seems to be a good guy and appears to have made a great tune for our bikes but I'm not gonna bring out the tar & feathers for a guy who's brought another (seemingly) equally good product to our attention.

I agree competition is a good thing, but Steve's product is proven.  Where are the reviews for the other guy's tune?  I wouldn't say they are considered to be equally good without having any basis for comparison.  One report does not make things equal.
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: ConcoursKZ on August 22, 2017, 11:12:00 am
What does he charge for the flash and what is the turn around? I guess I should ask him...

He says same day turn around and $350. I doubt his support and service is as good. I think its about the same price with Steve. I wonder if Steve has done a comparison. Plus I see now reviews on the flash.
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: AmphibSailor on August 22, 2017, 11:22:59 am
The testimonials (http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/testimonials.htm) link says, "404 not found."

Guess there aren't any testimonials or he's updating the page.
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: rcannon409 on August 22, 2017, 11:31:16 am
I don't know if he considers a C14 a sports bike but that fee is $800 - $1000   :-\

I am 100% satisfied with Steve's flash and like to support someone who not only supports COG, but is a COG member  :great:

No, the cost is right under the bike picture, in red.....350.00, plus shipping.   I think you have to own a BMW before you pay 800.00, for  a reflash. I have a friend with a k 1300s, and thats what hes looking at to get his bike fixed.

I have had 4 reflashes through Ivans shop.  Turn around time has never been over 24 hrs.

Im kind of an impatient idiot, and usually use next day air shipping. Typically, I'll send it in , on monday....it arrives, tuesday, and Im riding again by wednesday....not typically, thats how its always been.

No idea what "edited by rev rider" means. Thats strange. I did post bad links, and went back in and changed that, but Im not "rev rider"

I think I am a cog member, or I have always been one, and Ive been a member , here, since @2010.



Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Alan_Yucius_FL on August 22, 2017, 11:54:54 am
I don't know if he considers a C14 a sports bike but that fee is $800 - $1000   :-\

I am 100% satisfied with Steve's flash and like to support someone who not only supports COG, but is a COG member  :great:

No, the cost is right under the bike picture, in red.....350.00, plus shipping.   I think you have to own a BMW before you pay 800.00, for  a reflash. I have a friend with a k 1300s, and thats what hes looking at to get his bike fixed.

I have had 4 reflashes through Ivans shop.  Turn around time has never been over 24 hrs.

Im kind of an impatient idiot, and usually use next day air shipping. Typically, I'll send it in , on monday....it arrives, tuesday, and Im riding again by wednesday....not typically, thats how its always been.

No idea what "edited by rev rider" means. Thats strange. I did post bad links, and went back in and changed that, but Im not "rev rider"

I think I am a cog member, or I have always been one, and Ive been a member , here, since @2010.


    :truce:    Roland, There are TWO ways to be a member in COG, one is to be a FREE FORUM MEMBER ( don't pay dues)  and the other is to be a DUES PAYING MEMBER which supports the club FINANCIALLY.  Now, which one are you??   ;)      Alan in S. Fl   :motonoises:   :motonoises:
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: OKC14 on August 22, 2017, 12:25:38 pm
Whoa, boys... there's room in this town for the both of us...  ;)
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: rcannon409 on August 22, 2017, 12:27:39 pm
I thought it was an automatic renewal, and I still have my member number..?

The member number was good enough to get  a discount on Nationwide insurance.

Honestly, thought it was still good , and this organization is worth supporting...I just renewed it, and Im glad you brought it to my attention. This is the only forum ive ever paid to be  a part of, and the only one that was worth paying for.

I think that nationwide discount was 10% and paid for most of the dues.  Come to think of it...the magazine stopped....thats embarrassing......and sorry.

I know its not a requirement to post here, but still...
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: COGnosticator on August 22, 2017, 01:14:13 pm
I
Honestly, thought it was still good , and this organization is worth supporting...I just renewed it, and Im glad you brought it to my attention. This is the only forum ive ever paid to be  a part of, and the only one that was worth paying for.


 :great:   :beerchug:
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Deepsea on August 22, 2017, 08:27:23 pm
I sent an email to Ivan asking if he had different versions for different exhaust. The answer was I have to call since Ivan doesn't have email.


I'm very happy with what I have, thank you Steve.



Hi,
You'll need to phone and speak to Ivan (no email)
 
 
Cheers
Stephen Goodyear
 
SG Motorsport 02392 789823
https://www.sgmotorsport.biz (https://www.sgmotorsport.biz/)   
Road - Race - Restoration
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Alan_Yucius_FL on August 22, 2017, 10:08:11 pm
Thanks Roland for rejoining  :great:.  Now that you joined, if you chose to join ROK  (RIDERS OF KAWASAKI) that is at a discount and along w/that membership they give you motorcycle towing service and other discount benefits they offer.           Alan in S. Fl.
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Deepsea on August 22, 2017, 11:13:51 pm
ROK has partnered with AMA so we can no longer get road service from both.
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: rcannon409 on August 23, 2017, 10:58:58 pm
Alan, thank you..I will check into that.

It would be nice to have a go to place for  a tow,f needed.   
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on August 23, 2017, 11:10:22 pm
ROK has partnered with AMA so we can no longer get road service from both.

Hmmm
Interesting...  never saw any benefit from ROK to me, as I don't need another magazine, dont seem active enough in legislation, are "corporate based" and they don't much suit my "needs"... jmho.

I just renewed my AMA, just to keep my "emergency tow" feature active, which covers every vehicle in the household, and anything towed by them..

Had this plan.since it began as "MoTow", a longtime back.. never let me down, and had all my trucks towed at one time or another, within the hour ....
Never used it for the bike yet,.hope never to need it either.
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: MichiGlenn on August 23, 2017, 11:21:58 pm
Hi Roland,
For what it's worth, you are still listed on your posts as a forum subscriber.  IIRC you need to log out then back in to update this.  Then you won't be accused of being a non dues-paying member.
Thanks for re-upping!
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Deepsea on August 24, 2017, 04:01:36 am
Before ROK partnered with AMA if you belonged to both it was possible to get a tow from ROK for 35 miles then get another tow from AMA if needed to get home. Now you only get the AMA service. But you also only pay one fee. Essentially ROK now exists in name only.
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: COGnosticator on August 24, 2017, 08:20:46 am
[thread hijack/] 
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: rcannon409 on August 24, 2017, 11:41:15 am
Hi Roland,
For what it's worth, you are still listed on your posts as a forum subscriber.  IIRC you need to log out then back in to update this.  Then you won't be accused of being a non dues-paying member.
Thanks for re-upping!

Thank you. I just kept watching it. Hoping it would change...lol

I always liked the little address book, too.  Also, about the first time Fred reveals the alternate mounting point for our rearsets, the membership more than paid for itself.

Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: rcannon409 on August 24, 2017, 03:27:27 pm
One thing that's impressed me, with Ivan, is he will do updates free of charge.  Tune changes, are free as well.  No extra charge to go to the full exhaust tune.

This holds true for the future owners of the bike.  If i sell my bike to you, you would pay only for the postage to send it to, and from , foor the updates, or changes.

Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Trey on August 24, 2017, 03:44:15 pm
Really not trying to bash Ivan, but if you look at his dyno chart vs. Shoodabeen. Steves torque curve looks better.  I'm not even looking at numbers because two different dynos and such. 
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Egodriver71 on August 25, 2017, 10:10:10 am
Really not trying to bash Ivan, but if you look at his dyno chart vs. Shoodabeen. Steve's torque curve looks better.  I'm not even looking at numbers because two different dynos and such.

Steve was more about area under the curve rather than an absolute number. :motonoises:

But most people don't understand area under the curve... >:(
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Deepsea on August 26, 2017, 05:53:06 pm
Lots of things people don't understand, not just under the curve. The effects of rotating mass (including the crankshaft), Bhp v Tq, + and - sonic wave, exhaust Dv vs Dp, lots of science here that most riders have no need to explore.
Just be happy someone else does and enjoy the ride. ;)
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: rcannon409 on August 28, 2017, 06:46:51 pm
sorry guys....
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Deepsea on August 28, 2017, 09:35:00 pm
Just looked at the updated page. If he's going to call out an competitor as being less than honest then just call a spade a spade and name names. Anything less is pure conjecture as far as I'm concerned. When using someone else data without "Credits" it means nothing. If your going to publish it name it. Sorry but anything less is deceptive and if your not willing to be straight up then shut up.
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on August 28, 2017, 10:07:17 pm
I dont know if you've seen Ivans page, recently....he updated it, and added a page #2.

[url]http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/ZG1400_2.htm[/url] ([url]http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/ZG1400_2.htm[/url])


Sorry, but knowing Steve, and exactly how much time, and money he put out to get his stuff straight.. I find the "following in the footsteps and trying to emulate and over state" findings a bit... well, smarmy b/s.

I'm willing to bet, Ivan is using the EXACT same software that Bubba has been using, as getting the results in incremental blocks is the telltale feature.
I know exactly what Bubba went thru, to re program, and adjust accordingly all of the bazillion "bits" in the charting..

Pretymuch I see Ivan as throwing down the gauntlet, and calling Bubba out, as there is no one anywhere else in the USA besides these 2, pushing it.

I'm not backing either as being the "best", but I do back my pal, that worked long and hard, to develop a tune package in different modes, for offer to this group...

Maybe if Ivan was an industry member, and actually cared about further endeavors for the benefit of his peers, the members of this GROUP, he maight get some creds...
 Just hawking a tune, for cash, with no desire to affiliate, in my honest opinion... well, just send money.
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Daytona_Mike on August 28, 2017, 11:54:52 pm
I dont know if you've seen Ivans page, recently....he updated it, and added a page #2.

[url]http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/ZG1400_2.htm[/url] ([url]http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/ZG1400_2.htm[/url])


Sorry, but knowing Steve, and exactly how much time, and money he put out to get his stuff straight.. I find the "following in the footsteps and trying to emulate and over state" findings a bit... well, smarmy b/s.

I'm willing to bet, Ivan is using the EXACT same software that Bubba has been using, as getting the results in incremental blocks is the telltale feature.
I know exactly what Bubba went thru, to re program, and adjust accordingly all of the bazillion "bits" in the charting..

Pretymuch I see Ivan as throwing down the gauntlet, and calling Bubba out, as there is no one anywhere else in the USA besides these 2, pushing it.

I'm not backing either as being the "best", but I do back my pal, that worked long and hard, to develop a tune package in different modes, for offer to this group...

Maybe if Ivan was an industry member, and actually cared about further endeavors for the benefit of his peers, the members of this GROUP, he maight get some creds...
 Just hawking a tune, for cash, with no desire to affiliate, in my honest opinion... well, just send money.

Well said and I fully agree... :beerchug: :beerchug:    By the way.. Who can say that they are high tech and buy my stuff (Ivan) and NOT even have an email??  That should tell you something right there.
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: rcannon409 on August 29, 2017, 12:01:02 am
It's not always hard work that opens doors.  It takes hard work,and the proper tools.

Ivan uses his own software, built specifically for his use, and the bikes he chooses to tune.. Its been that way since the beginning.


Ivan also,offers free tune changes.  Buy an exhaust, and he will reflash to that for no additional charge.   

If this reflash is passion driven, and a deep love of the concours 14,  why does the guy we are not naming charge for this?

As time goes on, products and methods improve.  . 

The reaction to this is funny.  Instead of worrying about performance, it's all about his e mail address? 

All he's doing is offering you a "non-woolich"  option and saying he'd rather talk to a owner on the phone, and not be holding old e mail's with owners name, address, credit card info.

Seriously?

He has updated page 1 to include the slip on's.
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Deepsea on August 29, 2017, 12:36:38 am
It's much more than offering a "non-woolich" or wanting to talk by phone. I have no particular tie to Steve or Guhl or any other vender. What I do have is a deep respect for fairness and credit where credit is due, good or bad. Insinuation doesn't count and is always bad form. To publish someone else work without a "Credit line" is just wrong. If someone doesn't have the stones to own what they print they shouldn't be printing it. As I said before, keep it straight up. Period. This applies equally to everyone IMHO.
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on August 29, 2017, 03:40:23 am
Well I assume everyone is ondering why I've been radio silent. The fact is that I'm on vacation at the beach, so I've tried to be on vacation. Of course I have a lot to say on this, but forr now a couple points:  1- Ivan has had a good reputation in all that I've heard 2- he's right, there is outright bs and lies in the flashing game, and for those who are trying to judge a flash by dyno numbers it's easy to be misled. 3- those charts he posted are not my charts. My charts can be seen on my site. 4- if anyone is calling me a liar or misleading folks, well you better lace up your boots. I've been in this group for 12 years, a couple thousand concours customers and nobody has ever accused me of dishonesty, because I am not dishonest. 5- I'll be back to my computer the 1st, I suggest if anyone wants to question my ability / motivation / business practices etc we can take it up then. Steve
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on August 29, 2017, 03:57:24 am
 :great: :great:
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Deepsea on August 29, 2017, 04:09:00 am
Let the fun begin. :great:
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: rcannon409 on August 29, 2017, 10:06:07 am
How much does someone care about their customers/fellow members when he has to be less than truthful in order to sell his product?

It's very easy to see that his dyno charts were done in 2 different gears, and you don't have to be a dyno guru to know this. It's because the gear ratio is listed for each run on the top right of his charts. This automatically gives full credibility to Ivan's page.

The concours shows 140+ hp on most dyno charts with a slipon exhaust... Just look at any website that has a chart or specs listed. More important than the numbers is the fact that there is no dip in the torque at low rpm with a stock ecu in the normal mode or on the Gen1 bikes. (only the eco mode has more restrictions)

Who really cares about his customers?
Someone who will say anything to sell his work?
(choosing $$$$$ over his customer base's knowing the truth about what the gains really are)

Or, someone who always gives the truth and lets his work speak for itself in almost every country around the world since the 90's?
Ivan's success was not earned easily. nobody's is (unless it's inherited).

A long time ago, I asked Ivan why he doesn't do email... His answer was, because his customer base is so large, that if his email was public, he wouldn't be able to do anything else.
He would rather speak to you in person.... it's more personal, and he feels this is the best way to do business and take care of his customers properly. He's old school, and does business the old fashioned way. I personally prefer this to email any day of the week.

How would anyone know the effort that Ivan put into his products? I'm sure there are way more blood, sweat and tears developing every facet of what your products are vs. buying a software and spending time with just that.

In the end, who really cares about this?
People just want their bike to run as best/powerful/efficient as it possibly can... nobody really wants to hold hands and sing.
Ivan isn't asking anyone to hold hands and sing either... he wants you to get what you pay for, and to know what you are actually paying for.

He'll likely have this bike for at least 3-4 years (maybe longer) and offer improvements at no charge to anyone that has his product whether you bought it from him or not.

Does this not count as a commitment to anyone who owns this bike and his product?
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on August 29, 2017, 11:44:04 am
How much does someone care about their customers/fellow members when he has to be less than truthful in order to sell his product?

It's very easy to see that his dyno charts were done in 2 different gears, and you don't have to be a dyno guru to know this. It's because the gear ratio is listed for each run on the top right of his charts. This automatically gives full credibility to Ivan's page.

The concours shows 140+ hp on most dyno charts with a slipon exhaust... Just look at any website that has a chart or specs listed. More important than the numbers is the fact that there is no dip in the torque at low rpm with a stock ecu in the normal mode or on the Gen1 bikes. (only the eco mode has more restrictions)

Who really cares about his customers?
Someone who will say anything to sell his work?
(choosing $$$$$ over his customer base's knowing the truth about what the gains really are)

Or, someone who always gives the truth and lets his work speak for itself in almost every country around the world since the 90's?
Ivan's success was not earned easily. nobody's is (unless it's inherited).

A long time ago, I asked Ivan why he doesn't do email... His answer was, because his customer base is so large, that if his email was public, he wouldn't be able to do anything else.
He would rather speak to you in person.... it's more personal, and he feels this is the best way to do business and take care of his customers properly. He's old school, and does business the old fashioned way. I personally prefer this to email any day of the week.

How would anyone know the effort that Ivan put into his products? I'm sure there are way more blood, sweat and tears developing every facet of what your products are vs. buying a software and spending time with just that.

In the end, who really cares about this?
People just want their bike to run as best/powerful/efficient as it possibly can... nobody really wants to hold hands and sing.
Ivan isn't asking anyone to hold hands and sing either... he wants you to get what you pay for, and to know what you are actually paying for.

He'll likely have this bike for at least 3-4 years (maybe longer) and offer improvements at no charge to anyone that has his product whether you bought it from him or not.

Does this not count as a commitment to anyone who owns this bike and his product?
                      rcannon, just to be clear here, when you say " less than truthful to sell product" are you talking about me and Shoodaben Engineering? Steve
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: WANDRNG on August 29, 2017, 02:51:11 pm
This thread is beginning to ...  well... stink and leave a bad taste. And it's not going anywhere good or gonna get better.

rcannon - what started as testimonial for some guys product/service, then oddly progressed into a promotional feel, has now slimed into the negative atmosphere of a hit piece.  You're not doing Ivan any favors here any longer.  Does Ivan even know about this thread and your actions seemingly in his name?  My thought is you should probably stop. Maybe even back track a little. Before you do real damage to Ivan and his reputation here.  Ivan may make a great product and have great service, but this thread is casting it all in kind of a bad light.

Steve - Hope you take the high road here. I was kind of glad to see you not responding, a "let him have his say" vibe. Especially since it's not even Ivan.  I can see how some of the more recent posts might be getting your hackles up, can't blame you. But people here know you, know your product and service and ethics (lord knows we've seen and heard the testimonials of friends and fellow members). You have nothing to prove. Just saying you "stand behind your product" is probably words enough.  Hopin' you don't take the bait.


To all: Please tell us how great your product is. Please tell us how great your service is. Please tell us how it is a benefit to us/me. Please tell us how much you love the Concours, COG and our forum of riders.

But please do not tell us how bad, wrong, evil, misguided   ....  the other guy is.

Just my opinion.


Disclaimer: I've done business with neither. Can't read a dyno chart (over it or under it or right on top of it). Am not a big modification or farkler guy. Cheap and broke (a very bad combination). And not that great a rider so not all that concerned about increased performance. So probably not really a future customer of either. Just giving my two cents about this thread. - which I've read completely through (hijacks and all) and probably will not return too.

Have a great day.

Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Tinsailor on August 29, 2017, 04:15:41 pm
Well that sounded like the voice of reason.
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: turbo-max on August 29, 2017, 07:52:45 pm
well, i was going to say some choice words to/about Rcannon, but he is simply not worth my time and aggravation...taking the higher road...this time!
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Deepsea on August 29, 2017, 08:16:40 pm
Haa, cheep and broke. Been there most of my life. :(
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: 4Bikes on August 29, 2017, 08:28:47 pm
This thread is beginning to ...  well... stink and leave a bad taste. And it's not going anywhere good or gonna get better.

rcannon - what started as testimonial for some guys product/service, then oddly progressed into a promotional feel, has now slimed into the negative atmosphere of a hit piece.  You're not doing Ivan any favors here any longer.  Does Ivan even know about this thread and your actions seemingly in his name?  My thought is you should probably stop. Maybe even back track a little. Before you do real damage to Ivan and his reputation here.  Ivan may make a great product and have great service, but this thread is casting it all in kind of a bad light.

Steve - Hope you take the high road here. I was kind of glad to see you not responding, a "let him have his say" vibe. Especially since it's not even Ivan.  I can see how some of the more recent posts might be getting your hackles up, can't blame you. But people here know you, know your product and service and ethics (lord knows we've seen and heard the testimonials of friends and fellow members). You have nothing to prove. Just saying you "stand behind your product" is probably words enough.  Hopin' you don't take the bait.


To all: Please tell us how great your product is. Please tell us how great your service is. Please tell us how it is a benefit to us/me. Please tell us how much you love the Concours, COG and our forum of riders.

But please do not tell us how bad, wrong, evil, misguided   ....  the other guy is.

Just my opinion.


Disclaimer: I've done business with neither. Can't read a dyno chart (over it or under it or right on top of it). Am not a big modification or farkler guy. Cheap and broke (a very bad combination). And not that great a rider so not all that concerned about increased performance. So probably not really a future customer of either. Just giving my two cents about this thread. - which I've read completely through (hijacks and all) and probably will not return too.

Have a great day.
Keith,
Well said. Perhaps one of the best thread moderating advice ever tendered. I agree.
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: rcannon409 on August 29, 2017, 09:05:42 pm
My intention here was not to cause any trouble. It was just to talk
about Ivan's Flash.

I'm sorry that it reads as a personal attack, against Steve, but it was a
response to other people's negative comments about where I got my work done.

From now on, I'll provide information for those who are
interested and my experience enjoying  this flash from day to day.

The bike is a completely new bike all over again.

I was going to buy Steve's reflash.  However, after studying his chart for slip-ons,
as well some exhaust manufacturers charts, something about Steve's chart did
not make sense to me.

I realized that the comparison chart was comparing two different gear ratios that were
different from each other appx. 20%, or about 1 gear apart  Its this chart:

https://fc3a7ead-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/shoodabenengineering/concours1400/Stock%20Vs%20Evolution.PNG?attachauth=ANoY7cr4rv997xdFvT0KZTT16qKewOPVdZsNvGjSIXBWmI5fPyE-EBqh5JwBQzKydhbDoyVZweKwv9pORbGDO1UrsPE9lVaD0A5avwRRkrSmqeGGb2K799bgPQPgylSGoDDvy3efqllkysxYlEZN7Ij4scO4VSRnellJtTfG_88owyv6GxanP9W48UgTgxTiwyUhANKlYNFv_qQ8oCsPa3Ul7qFSj6IBbVGgYhFoDMgMXMBfAdORFPLZb5Dirg3XL2TnWsR3ihkx&attredirects=0

Also, I couldn't find a C14 dyno chart that was as weak at low rpm anywhere.
This is what made me suspicious, and I chose to spend my money with my usual tuner.

Again, no intention to harm or attack anyone, just present some
information.

Sorry for getting angry.
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: turbo-max on August 29, 2017, 09:42:43 pm
My intention here was not to cause any trouble. It was just to talk
about Ivan's Flash.

I'm sorry that it reads as a personal attack, against Steve, but it was a
response to other people's negative comments about where I got my work done.

From now on, I'll provide information for those who are
interested and my experience enjoying  this flash from day to day.

The bike is a completely new bike all over again.

I was going to buy Steve's reflash.  However, after studying his chart for slip-ons,
as well some exhaust manufacturers charts, something about Steve's chart did
not make sense to me.

I realized that the comparison chart was comparing two different gear ratios that were
different from each other appx. 20%, or about 1 gear apart  Its this chart:


Also, I couldn't find a C14 dyno chart that was as weak at low rpm anywhere.
This is what made me suspicious, and I chose to spend my money with my usual tuner.

Again, no intention to harm or attack anyone, just present some
information.

Sorry for getting angry.

ok, i cant stay on course anymore...esp after all your posts and then a private message to me not understanding your wrong doings here....

you forgot to mention how many times you spoke with steve about particular tuning bits, then obviously appearing to go to "the other guy" and do some as i see it "swinging" on his private parts, then coming here to bash steve and his abilities,also His Dyno used to be mine, and there is no number jockinging, BUT that said steves number are corrected and the other guys are NOT, giving a falsely higher figure ...just calling as i see it, if i am wrong, i will admit it (if you can prove it)
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Bilbur on August 29, 2017, 10:11:14 pm
Boy oh boy. This forum never ceases to amaze.

Anywho. Here's my take on this because this whole thread has gotten so off course it's just silly.

Both products from Ivan and Steve are great products from what I've been reading on either companies website.

Both companies offer fast turnaround and easy processing.

AND both companies apparently have strong emotional customers.

Now.

Having said all of that, if I was looking at both products on the "shelf" to buy, I would pick Steves' Area-P Flash. Why? Well here's 3 top reasons why.

1. Steve's Area-P flash is designed for Full Exhausts. Comparably, Ivan's is designed only for Slip-ons. Makes a big difference.
2. Steve's Full Flash is only $45 more for specific designed application. Comparably, Ivan's approach is a one-size-fits-most model.
3. Steve's Full Flash produces 160.83hp at 8,800rpm with 102ft-lbs of torque up to what I'm assuming is about 7,700 RPM and only a slight drop in torque down to 80ft-lbs up to redline. Comparably, Ivan's has a max hp rating of 148 hp up to red line, a difference of 12 hp and also a max torque of 98 ft-lbs however, the drop off of torque is a sharper drop off down to 75 ft-lbs at red line

Bonus points: Both maps do have similar power bands and the nitty gritty can be argued. But, NO ONE can argue with the numbers. Steve's is more HP and Faster build of HP. Ivan's maxes out at 148 hp at about 7800 rpm. Steve's flash Passes Ivan's numbers at the same point but keep climbing to the butt clenching hp of 160 hp just a mere 1000 rpm later.


For me, I'd spend my dollar on steve's because I'm getting a more specific product tailored for my build and MORE of everything.


Edit: A more simple statement would be: Ivan only does flashes for slip-ons. Steve does a flash for every basic application. Including stock with his decel flash and evo flash. I like specifics. Steve took the time to get specific. That's the true value here.
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on August 29, 2017, 10:28:38 pm
My intention here was not to cause any trouble. It was just to talk
about Ivan's Flash.

I'm sorry that it reads as a personal attack, against Steve, but it was a
response to other people's negative comments about where I got my work done.

From now on, I'll provide information for those who are
interested and my experience enjoying  this flash from day to day.

The bike is a completely new bike all over again.

I was going to buy Steve's reflash.  However, after studying his chart for slip-ons,
as well some exhaust manufacturers charts, something about Steve's chart did
not make sense to me.

I realized that the comparison chart was comparing two different gear ratios that were
different from each other appx. 20%, or about 1 gear apart  Its this chart:

https://fc3a7ead-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/shoodabenengineering/concours1400/Stock%20Vs%20Evolution.PNG?attachauth=ANoY7cr8rj3NBYhKZanOT2Yc8TdYjUQvRe49HfmOB1VZ-V4t8ZePY-ENg1d6R00qCwMYFZ9_1ExeR5wTGSui2oTJ1wsnA_vRYjAkYe9MhNLmHGPJaQmCLLpe1dYkGuESO2MBU2v6TXDp1Fwobm-Z4pODmoNUO2s4hUx0wn5gNvay_C_sMCZcOqG9cOKLDEFViE2g2ijykRMlcY5yaGiPPugwvGb-5e6PSYFPSiCgz5R7l4qX851Zgz3rKCOA_DkhhNylDwf1ofjZ&attredirects=1

Also, I couldn't find a C14 dyno chart that was as weak at low rpm anywhere.
This is what made me suspicious, and I chose to spend my money with my usual tuner.

Again, no intention to harm or attack anyone, just present some
information.

Sorry for getting angry.

   OK, thanks Rcannon for clearing that up for me, you ARE accusing me of being "less than truthful" and I appreciate you explaining that you think I posted a "weak" stock chart in order to make my flash look better. So let's look at that.

  First,  let's look at 2 charts...we'll use my chart that you kindly posted in your post above, and Ivan's stock ecu chart, the first one on his site, with stock run #5 listed as his stock run. We'll use the torque trace as comparison because it's more granular and easier to work with.

  Ivan started his run around 17-1800 rpm, I started mine around 2200 rpm. Both charts show the same 2500 rpm flattening / dip, Mine is decidedly weaker at that 2500 rpm point than Ivan's but my run had just started 2-300 rpm before whereas Ivan's already was making power for an extra 500 rpm or so.

  Next, let's look at 3000 rpm... Both runs are running about 70# Tq... no appreciable difference.

  the same is true for 4-5-6000 rpm. the runs are very close to each other.

  To say my stock run is "weak" really falls down when it's actually 5 hp higher than Ivans.

  Now you're playing on the "gear" difference. Let's look at that. I selected the 2 runs NOT because I could "play games" with the chart, but because the start and stop points on each run were so close to each other. In fact if anything the stock run gets help by being in 4th gear whereas my flashed run was in 5th gear.

  Of course, after reading what you wrote, and then reviewing what Ivan posted on his page 2, I came to understand what you're alleging... that I used ECO mode to make my flashed run look better.

  So let me state this in as clear a method as I can.

  My stock runs were NOT done in ECO mode. I did nothing to mislead, and my dyno runs are what the dyno recorded. Heck, I even use SAE correction, not STD which would bump my numbers up. Who uses STD? HMMM.

  My advise at this point would be to "tread lightly" on your allegations. Think before you post... I would hate it if you did something to materially affect my ability to make a living by making incorrect and libelous statements as "factual".

   Oh, and one more thing... you also made statements about how I'm all about the money. Are you aware that I have donated almost 1600.00 worth of product and labor to COG within the last year? for COG members, just like you.

  You're welcome.

Steve

 ETA... going back to vacation. I only have a couple days left ;)
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Pittsburgh_Clem on August 29, 2017, 10:56:43 pm
 :popcorncouple: :popcorncouple: :popcorncouple: :popcorncouple: :popcorncouple: :popcorncouple:
May favorite post all year. I dun red ever word
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: rcannon409 on August 29, 2017, 11:46:50 pm
Steve, I do have a question, regarding the chart you show.  Is the 138hp run, done with a slip on or stock muffler?  Reading the text,  It leads me to believe it is a slip on, but not quite sure.

Bilbur, this bike is power limited by its exhaust.  Ivan can't make more power, with the stock header, from what he's told me.  He said a full exhaust will offer the 160hp, as we've seen on the area p/ fuel moto page.

This flash is brand new.  Been out for about 1 week, just before he went on vacation.

So far, he has two flashes, stock and slip on.  The full exhaust is upcoming. 
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Deepsea on August 30, 2017, 12:04:23 am
+1 What Steve said. Keep it honest, factual and forthright. Own what you say. Steve has and will continue to get my money.
Unfortunately rcannon it looks like you may have hurt Ivan more than helped. Unintended consequences!
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on August 30, 2017, 12:33:45 am
Steve, I do have a question, regarding the chart you show.  Is the 138hp run, done with a slip on or stock muffler?  Reading the text,  It leads me to believe it is a slip on, but not quite sure.

Bilbur, this bike is power limited by its exhaust.  Ivan can't make more power, with the stock header, from what he's told me.  He said a full exhaust will offer the 160hp, as we've seen on the area p/ fuel moto page.

This flash is brand new.  Been out for about 1 week, just before he went on vacation.

So far, he has two flashes, stock and slip on.  The full exhaust is upcoming.
  138 was stock, stock muffler.stock. Here again, like I've said many times, you can't race dyno charts. And in the light of full disclosure, i removed my original two runs done on Chris Jones' dyno because I couldn't closely replicate them on my dyno. In that chart, my bike did a best of 128 stock and 142 with my flash on the stock muffler.A 14 hp gain. My dyno does not show that much gain, so in the interest of moving all future work onto my dyno I posted the stock vs evo chart you linked to. I'm also flattered that you and Ivan have taken such an interest in running my work down, apparently I struck a sensitive spot... And imagine, I did that with my first flash! Steve
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Egodriver71 on August 30, 2017, 10:23:55 am
Don't worry Steve, I'm still sending mine to you instead of anyone else  :beerchug:
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: DanZX14 on August 30, 2017, 02:15:35 pm
All we are missing (or not) it that Ivan's comes in here and give HIS opinion.
Funny that his products are named here and there and he did not drop in??
Since he has no email, maybe he doesn't have a computer too??? ;) lol

It starting to look like a movie could be done out of this story. :)

Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on August 30, 2017, 02:52:53 pm
All we are missing (or not) it that Ivan's comes in here and give HIS opinion.
Funny that his products are named here and there and he did not drop in??
Since he has no email, maybe he doesn't have a computer too??? ;) lol

It starting to look like a movie could be done out of this story. :)
Ivan is very real, and has earned a strong reputation for his tuning even with carburetion. What is interesting is that his tuning philosophy and mine parallel each other. To me, it is a mature and complete approach to tuning the entirety of throttle position and engine use from idle on up. Not an easy way to tune but it gives the best results. What is sad / surprising / short sighted on this thread is that it focused on dyno charts derived with different bikes but more importantly on different dynos. This is the worst way to judge a tune imo, because you cannot dragrace dyno charts from different dynos, and it completely ignores the everyday riding characteristics and personality of the tune. Personally I have no doubt Ivan did a very good tune in many areas. In the end the tune a person likes will come down to the personality of the tune and how it works for them. My tunes have noticeably different personalities and riders tend to prefer one tune over another because of that personality. In the final analysis personal preferences will really be the only factor that matters between Ivan's flash and mine. $teve
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Bilbur on August 30, 2017, 02:59:49 pm
Bilbur, this bike is power limited by its exhaust.  Ivan can't make more power, with the stock header, from what he's told me.  He said a full exhaust will offer the 160hp, as we've seen on the area p/ fuel moto page.

This flash is brand new.  Been out for about 1 week, just before he went on vacation.

So far, he has two flashes, stock and slip on.  The full exhaust is upcoming.

You're just selling Steve's product for me even more then. I wouldn't buy Ivan's product simply because he doesn't have anything for my application. And yes, I know that the aftermarket header makes the difference. But, why would I buy the incorrect flash for my bike?

But, then you bury Ivan's flash a little bit more buy saying his flash is only a week old. AND he hasn't even developed a full exhaust flash.

Sorry bud, but Steve has not only developed his product over YEARS with consumer feedback and reviews, and his product has a very deep following of very satisfied customers that have flooded this forum with positive story after positive story.


Buy what you want from who you want. But as Steve warned you before. Tread carefully when you speak out against another company that offers competing products. If you poke that bear to hard you could find yourself in a legal buzz saw.

And btw, I don't think anyone here as spoken against Ivan's options for a C14 flash. YOU haven't been a great ambassador for his product but, that's separate I suppose from what Ivan's product most likely is.
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Deepsea on August 30, 2017, 03:57:00 pm
It doesn't  get more forthright than this, Steve is defending Ivan's work ethic, even in the face of rcannon's posts.
Which I suppose is only right since it isn't Ivan who posted the comments. However he did apparently use Steve's Dyno Chart on his web page without crediting them to Steve. Except by insinuation. And therein lies the rub. This is another reason we should never erase or change history. It is the only way to verify the true facts.
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Hiddenmickey on August 30, 2017, 06:40:04 pm
It doesn't  get more forthright than this, Steve is defending Ivan's work ethic, even in the face of rcannon's posts.
Which I suppose is only right since it isn't Ivan who posted the comments. However he did apparently use Steve's Dyno Chart on his web page without crediting them to Steve. Except by insinuation. And therein lies the rub. This is another reason we should never erase or change history. It is the only way to verify the true facts.


Do we really know Ivan and rcannon are not the same person?  Has anyone seen them in the same room together?
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Bilbur on August 30, 2017, 07:08:16 pm
 :hee20hee20hee:
It doesn't  get more forthright than this, Steve is defending Ivan's work ethic, even in the face of rcannon's posts.
Which I suppose is only right since it isn't Ivan who posted the comments. However he did apparently use Steve's Dyno Chart on his web page without crediting them to Steve. Except by insinuation. And therein lies the rub. This is another reason we should never erase or change history. It is the only way to verify the true facts.


Do we really know Ivan and rcannon are not the same person?  Has anyone seen them in the same room together?
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on August 30, 2017, 11:22:32 pm
sorry guys....
   So this is what's left of rcannon's post directing folks to Ivan's "concours page 2". Fortunately folks on ths thread quoted his post, so there's no denying it. The page has also been taken down from Ivan's site. Apparently someone has come to thier senses after my comparison post of my stock run with Ivan's stock run, and they realised the error of their ways. So as far as I'm concerned, rcannon accused me of dishonest business practce publically on this thread, and now he needs to be a man about it and give ME an apology and a public retraction of any statements even insinuating I have been dishonest. Steve
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Deepsea on August 30, 2017, 11:48:08 pm
+1 Steve and Ivan also owes you an apology for publishing your graph without permission or credit.
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: turbo-max on August 30, 2017, 11:48:52 pm
sorry guys....
   So this is what's left of rcannon's post directing folks to Ivan's "concours page 2". Fortunately folks on ths thread quoted his post, so there's no denying it. The page has also been taken down from Ivan's site. Apparently someone has come to thier senses after my comparison post of my stock run with Ivan's stock run, and they realised the error of their ways. So as far as I'm concerned, rcannon accused me of dishonest business practce publically on this thread, and now he needs to be a man about it and give ME an apology and a public retraction of any statements even insinuating I have been dishonest. Steve

very good way to clear this up before it turns in a legal mess....


Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Old Man on a Connie on August 31, 2017, 12:04:41 am
RC I have an offer. Will you be at the Wild Wasatch Rally in Provo in Sept? If so I will offer to let you ride my 2011 with a Leo Vince slip on and Steves Evo flash and I can ride your scoot with Ivans. Then we can compare notes butt Cheek to butt Cheek. Fair? No dyno just awesome Utah roads and a right wrist. Not a race. Straight up seat of the pants comparison. Now keep in mind I have a Baldwin Seat so it may skew some results  ;) For me it's about rideability, not pure HP. What say you? Look forward to seeing you in Provo regardless.
Mark
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Deepsea on August 31, 2017, 12:47:49 am
Cheek to Butt Cheek. :-\ I'd like to see a picture of that in the next Concourier. :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Old Man on a Connie on August 31, 2017, 01:34:50 am
Cheek to Butt Cheek. :-\ I'd like to see a picture of that in the next Concourier. :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
No you wouldn't  :-\ :))
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: cuda on August 31, 2017, 02:31:36 am
Interesting. Competition for Shoodaben? I thought Steve was the only real game in town outside of Guhl.


He IS :P
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: rcannon409 on August 31, 2017, 11:09:06 am
RC I have an offer. Will you be at the Wild Wasatch Rally in Provo in Sept? If so I will offer to let you ride my 2011 with a Leo Vince slip on and Steves Evo flash and I can ride your scoot with Ivans. Then we can compare notes butt Cheek to butt Cheek. Fair? No dyno just awesome Utah roads and a right wrist. Not a race. Straight up seat of the pants comparison. Now keep in mind I have a Baldwin Seat so it may skew some results  ;) For me it's about rideability, not pure HP. What say you? Look forward to seeing you in Provo regardless.
Mark

You guys, I do feel badly that this thread drifted off like it did, and I am sorry  for that..


I SHOULD have known better than to respond in anger....should, I say. but did not.

Anyway, I had not planned to go to the rally.    I'm out of town, often, and plans like this always end up getting in the way of work.  Like my reservation for our rally, in Pocatello, Id from a  few years back.......yes, ended up in the middle of Nevada, working on a mine site.

I was just at White Knuckle, Motorsports. Mark, you have to stop in there.  They have a vintage Suzuki RGV 250 on the showroom floor.  Never saw one of those, before. 250, two stroke, v twin. Never available in the us, and the thing is Utah plated! They also have a inline 4, Ninja 400.  Not quite as cool, but unique.

Are your riding, this weekend?  I have a few hrs free, on Sunday, and planned on going somewhere.....   Our bikes are very similar.  I have the Leo Vince slip on, as well, but I am using the far superior Sargent seat.   Superior to what?  That I'm not sure, but I hated the stock seat.

 I was going to ride from West Jordan and end up out at that gas station in Delle, Ut.  (At this point Mark is probably laughing. All that is near Delle is a nearby Nuclear waste storage facility and one service station.)

 I wanted to ride to Delle just to see what my fuel mileage will be. Leaving, from my house will include a decent variety of conditions. Some uphill as I'm on the Mountain View corridor, but nothing is really exaggerated like it would be if I rode up Parleys, and went to Evanston.  Total mileage will be @ 125.

The text on you site is confusing.

I should have not said what I did.  I'd go back and erase it, but its been quoted, so that would not do much good. But I am sorry for saying what I did, and how Isaid it.

Is our onboard computer accurate enough for fuel mileage quotes?  My bike is a cal emissions bike and has a fill insert. It makes it very difficult to eyeball the fuel level and match the level from fill to fill.   

Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: oldnslo_MO on August 31, 2017, 12:13:04 pm
i have used ivan in the past for carb work and tuning,talked to him on several occasions, he has always been honest and delivered on what he stated.. on the other hand i am new to steve, but after a lenghtly phone conversation and question and answer session i have complete faith in steve, so much so that after he gets his butt off vacation i am sending him my ecu to flash, from a guhl flash to his..i am not berating ivan, steve or guhl,as steve stated each of us have different styles and expectations for the performance of our bikes..nothing is one size fits all, just like seats etc.. to each his own....if every body liked cadillacs, they wouldn't make fords and chevys etc... :deadhorse:
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: rcannon409 on August 31, 2017, 01:10:54 pm
Steve, this is copied from your web site....


"""See the dyno run below "stock Vs Evolution"; the evolution flash was built and depicted with an area P slipon, but all slipon's will have comparable performance. If you look at the torque traces, you'll see the Evolution flash has apx the same torque at 3000 rpm as the stock flash has at 5000 rpm, and more power everywhere. Not insignificant. """"""

Your site is confusing to me as the text above says that you are comparing just the flash....

Nowhere does it say that the comparison is an all stock bike vs. a bike with a slip-on and your flash.

I believe this is what caused all the drama.

Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Deepsea on August 31, 2017, 02:08:18 pm
  rcannon, I can both understand and question your confusion about what "Stock" means. I've been racing and building race bikes for 40 years. I'm not much of a "Tuner" that's best left to the guys who know how. What I do know is that "Stock" means just that. In any and all racing the things you can change in a Stock class is almost nothing. Tires, chain, sprockets and thats about it. Almost everyone I've ever talked, both racers and non racers understands this. Some sanctioning body are so restrictive that you're allowed to change nothing except tires. To compete under SCTA/BNI you can't even change or alter the wind screen.
  I can understand that a non rider might not distinguish the difference. I've never meet a rider who didn't know that stock meant "Stock" as unchanged as from the factory.
  When I first saw Steve's web site and looked at the comparison graphs the idea that "Stock" meant only the ECU did not even occur.
  For you or anyone else to continue challenging Steve's integrity is only digging the hole you're in deeper.


  You have apologized for some of the things you said earlier, accepted. BUT you have not apologized or expressed any remorse directly to Steve. He is the one you attacked. I've never even met the guy, but what I've personally experienced of him has always been above and way beyond.  He is a "Stand up guy". Are you?
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Bilbur on August 31, 2017, 02:28:07 pm
rcannon, just stop man. The more you call out Steve's website the more it looks like you're trying to catch him in a lie.

You're not only splitting hairs at this point but, you're just digging yourself a deeper and darker hole.


Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on August 31, 2017, 02:40:49 pm
Steve, this is copied from your web site....


"""See the dyno run below "stock Vs Evolution"; the evolution flash was built and depicted with an area P slipon, but all slipon's will have comparable performance. If you look at the torque traces, you'll see the Evolution flash has apx the same torque at 3000 rpm as the stock flash has at 5000 rpm, and more power everywhere. Not insignificant. """"""

Your site is confusing to me as the text above says that you are comparing just the flash....

Nowhere does it say that the comparison is an all stock bike vs. a bike with a slip-on and your flash.

I believe this is what caused all the drama.
   So now it's my fault that I used the term "STOCK" properly ? Geez PLEASE STOP. Steve
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on August 31, 2017, 03:15:39 pm
Rcannon, if you want to continue, please explain this to me... How is it that you were so aware of Ivan's webste updates including the page where he called out a "competitor" for posting a manipulated chart, then when you realized YOU read my chart wrong suddenly Ivan removed that attack page? I really expect Ivan knows how to read dyno charts. It does not seem kosher that you both independently yet simultaneously decided you has misread my dyno charts. Things that make me go "Hmmmm". Steve
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Alan_Yucius_FL on August 31, 2017, 04:09:02 pm
 :popcorncouple:      :ecomcity: :ecomcity: :ecomcity:    Ivan & RC  same person????
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Bilbur on August 31, 2017, 04:51:21 pm
:popcorncouple:      :ecomcity: :ecomcity: :ecomcity:    Ivan & RC  same person????

No they're definitely different guys. Roland Cannon and Ivan Rovinsky.
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Deepsea on August 31, 2017, 06:31:15 pm
I'd sure like to hear from Ivan about all this. Still waiting for rcannon to respond to my last post.
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Old Man on a Connie on August 31, 2017, 11:28:29 pm
Ease up Gent's. Take a breath. The man is trying to right some wrongs. The verbiage may not be acceptable and there are more questions, but the man is trying. Remember the written word is open for interpretation. And Steve, I commend you for your even attitude and replies.  :beerchug: Commendable and noteworthy.
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: LakeTrax on September 01, 2017, 09:51:02 pm
I ran every version of Steve's flashes on my C14(except the full AreaP) and I was nothing but satisfied with all of them. Steve's communication, business practices, and final products are as good as it gets-

I also know that Ivan does good work... but showing up second to any game always comes with inherent obstacles.

The only thing I wish I could have gotten out of Steve that it appears Ivan offers is another 500rpm before the rev-limiter kicks in. :motonoises:..... >:(

Sorta anxious to see if Ivan grenades any C14 engines by raising the limiter or if Steve is doing just as he says... erring on the side of caution. Probably smart-

Carry on.
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on September 01, 2017, 10:25:27 pm
I ran every version of Steve's flashes on my C14(except the full AreaP) and I was nothing but satisfied with all of them. Steve's communication, business practices, and final products are as good as it gets-

I also know that Ivan does good work... but showing up second to any game always comes with inherent obstacles.

The only thing I wish I could have gotten out of Steve that it appears Ivan offers is another 500rpm before the rev-limiter kicks in. :motonoises:..... >:(

Sorta anxious to see if Ivan grenades any C14 engines by raising the limiter or if Steve is doing just as he says... airing on the side of caution. Probably smart-

Carry on.
 

  It's the law of unintended consequences. There will be more coming from me on this soon. Steve
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Deepsea on September 01, 2017, 10:28:34 pm
It was my understanding that you could have gotten that extra 500rpm. It was/is available but not recommended. What do you gain between 10.5k and 11k? Not much since both Hp and Tq are going down. I talked with Steve about this some months back trying to eek out the last bit for LSR when you're pushing 120 psfoot of air pressure, or 175 mph and up. Decided against it. Very little to no benefit for more risk to reciprocating parts. If you ride close to or at Red Line often this is a wear factor and impacts engine life. Over the years I've torn down literally 100's of engines. Both my own and others as Tech Inspector for record verification and Protests. When AMA/DragBike still existed as a sanctioning body I was one of the West Coast Event Directors and Senior Tech Director. If you remove the Head I could look at the valves, cylinders and pistons and tell you if the engine had been routinely run at or close to redline.
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: LakeTrax on September 02, 2017, 12:22:40 am
.
......
What do you gain between 10.5k and 11k?
......

Nothing... besides getting to ride out a few super-sweet power-wheelies in 1st & 2nd gear a little longer.  :)
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Deepsea on September 02, 2017, 01:17:02 am
Wheelies are fun, although I've never had to wind it that tight to "Keep it up" :nananana: :nananana: ;)
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: LakeTrax on September 02, 2017, 03:34:06 am
Coming from the guy ^^^ trying to hit how many ???mph on a C14?... :truce:

All I know is... my flash works with and/or without both saddlebags.  ;D

 :beerchug:
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Deepsea on September 02, 2017, 04:24:59 am
Well.......200 would be the magic number. :motonoises: :motonoises: :motonoises: :motonoises: Don't think I'm going to get there on salt or dirt, maybe a runway >:D  but that don't count for me.
If, actually when, I give up on "Stock" class the new goal will be 207.045 in modified, partial streamlined. There is no stock, partial streamlined because it's "Stock".


I have wound some engines pretty tight, but never to "Keep it up" :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
I got some broken pistons and a "Bent rod" :nananana: [size=78%] to show for it.[/size]


Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: LakeTrax on September 02, 2017, 05:09:34 am
Funny you mention runway...

Profile pic is of my C14 perched on the now-closed Sellar's Air Field in Olive Hill, KY.

'They' let the pavement deteriorate for years and eventually closed it to ALL traffic not too long ago...
Still cool to take a peek in the old quonset-hut hangars tho- :great:

More wind-tunnel history here:
http://www.matthewbsellers.com/mobilepage.php?pagenumber=3 (http://www.matthewbsellers.com/mobilepage.php?pagenumber=3)
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: rcannon409 on September 02, 2017, 11:09:58 pm
138 was stock, stock muffler.stock. Here again, like I've said many times, you can't race dyno charts. And in the light of full disclosure, i removed my original two runs done on Chris Jones' dyno because I couldn't closely replicate them on my dyno. In that chart, my bike did a best of 128 stock and 142 with my flash on the stock muffler.A 14 hp gain. My dyno does not show that much gain, so in the interest of moving all future work onto my dyno I posted the stock vs evo chart you linked to. I'm also flattered that you and Ivan have taken such an interest in running my work down, apparently I struck a sensitive spot... And imagine, I did that with my first flash! Steve



Steve, this is copied from your web site....


"""See the dyno run below "stock Vs Evolution"; the evolution flash was built and depicted with an area P slipon, but all slipon's will have comparable performance. If you look at the torque traces, you'll see the Evolution flash has apx the same torque at 3000 rpm as the stock flash has at 5000 rpm, and more power everywhere. Not insignificant. """"""

Your site is confusing to me as the text above says that you are comparing just the flash....

Nowhere does it say that the comparison is an all stock bike vs. a bike with a slip-on and your flash.

I believe this is what caused all the drama.




Steve,
With the above in mind,

No matter what I  have said, or what I have posted, it has nothing to do with how the text, or the charts on your web site are interpreted, or displayed.

How many other people that you bought your ecu flash thought the gains shown on your dyno chart were only from your ecu flash and nothing else?

I know that I can’t be the only one in the world that reads you site this way.
To me, there is no misinterpreting what the text on your site reads, no matter how I read it, I always read it as; “You are claiming that it’s just the flash that is shown in your chart”

Maybe you can explain it better for everyone?

Do you think that the text on your site should be edited immediately to explain clearly what the chart actually shows?

People have an enormous attention to detail for the things that are important to them, and also about what others write, being vague in judgement of themselves or their friends, maybe a little look in the mirror for the sake of everyone else?

For me, I’m sorry for writing offensively, but I’m not sorry for calling you out.

To me, your ecu flash page feels deceptive, and the fact that you haven’t corrected it, just means to me that you want it to remain that way. I'm sure that you did not rush through the text that you put on your own web site?

This bothers me a lot, and this is the reason that I didn’t spend my money with you.   


RC
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Deepsea on September 02, 2017, 11:48:44 pm
Wow, just wow. rcannon.
What do you not understand from this " the evolution flash was built and depicted with an area P slipon". Do you know what "Built and depicted" means?
Then this, "[size=78%] If you look at the torque traces, you'll see the Evolution flash has apx the same torque at 3000 rpm as the stock flash has at 5000 rpm, and more power everywhere. Not insignificant.[/size]


The Evolution Flash (as defined was built and depicted with an Area P slip-on) then compared to "Stock".  Nowhere is it implied that the Evolution graph was with a stock exhaust.

I just do NOT see where the confusion is.

I said it before, Steve is a stand up guy. I'll ask  again. Are you? And why do you keep digging this hole?
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on September 03, 2017, 12:15:43 am





Steve,
With the above in mind,

No matter what I  have said, or what I have posted, it has nothing to do with how the text, or the charts on your web site are interpreted, or displayed.

How many other people that you bought your ecu flash thought the gains shown on your dyno chart were only from your ecu flash and nothing else?

I know that I can’t be the only one in the world that reads you site this way.
To me, there is no misinterpreting what the text on your site reads, no matter how I read it, I always read it as; “You are claiming that it’s just the flash that is shown in your chart”

Maybe you can explain it better for everyone?

Do you think that the text on your site should be edited immediately to explain clearly what the chart actually shows?

People have an enormous attention to detail for the things that are important to them, and also about what others write, being vague in judgement of themselves or their friends, maybe a little look in the mirror for the sake of everyone else?

For me, I’m sorry for writing offensively, but I’m not sorry for calling you out.

To me, your ecu flash page feels deceptive, and the fact that you haven’t corrected it, just means to me that you want it to remain that way. I'm sure that you did not rush through the text that you put on your own web site?

This bothers me a lot, and this is the reason that I didn’t spend my money with you.   


RC

   there is nothing misleading. I have gone to great pains to be forthright. you have a reading comprehension problem... that's not my fault.

  Also, after 2 years of my posts here anyone with half a brain would understand that I think buying a flash because of a dyno chart is stupid. I post the charts only because everyone wants to see them, but they tell the reader NOTHING about the personality and subtleties of the tuning.

  To be honest, guys who are so willfully ignorant that they only want to see dyno charts aren't the guys I want for customers. I want mature customers... folks who understand fine wine isn't about alcohol content, it's about the richness of it's body  :beerchug:

  All that said, I'm GLAD you didn't buy my flash, because the intricacies of my work would have been wasted on you.

  Please get off the crazy train, you're getting on my nerves.

  If you really want to keep it up,. start by explaining the true nature of your relationship with Ivan, and the coincidence of you both realizing you'ld made a mistake when reading my dyno charts that led to both of you saying I was "less than truthful"... and interestingly you both used the same terminology. Another coincidence, perhaps.

  Steve

   
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: turbo-max on September 03, 2017, 01:15:19 am
sometimes...you just can't fix stupid  :c029:
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Phil Parker - A real name on September 03, 2017, 01:45:47 am
When I first read this post, I was pretty shocked at the attacks on Steve’s product, references to it all being about $$$$, and unfounded claims.  This Rcannon was seriously doing Ivan an injustice.  If I were him, just getting a product off the ground, I’d be horrified.  Steve was even bashed for having a lot of customers, with the dude saying, who cares if he has a lot of customers !!   That’s like buying a product on Amazon that has a ton of 5 Star Reviews vs one that has no reviews !!

Early on, I was not keen on anyone flashing my bikes Computer with a goal of only peeking out the engine for a fast run on a drag strip.  That’s not even remotely what I want in a tune.  I’ve gotten to know Steve on a personal level and I wanted to understand his philosophy of tuning because tuning a bike on a Dyno is good for Wide Open Throttle - and not good for anything below the curve.  When I first talked to him about his soon to be released Decel Verizon of his tune, I couldn’t believe the things he was saying.  He was the first tuner I heard saying the things I wanted to hear.  I knew this was the guy I wanted to tune my bike.   He and I hit it off and I was shocked he spent so much time educating me about tuning.  I even had to ask him - why are you spending so much time sharing this knowledge.  His response was, I can tell you get it and are wantvto learn.  I was so impressed right from the get go. 

I had my Decel Flash almost 2 years ago.  I think I have #2 on that one.  In about Oct last year, I heard rumor of a new Flash and called him.  He told me about what it did and how he achieved a something even better.  In Dec, he said he was ready, and if I’d like, I again would be one of the first to have the Evolution Flash.  I snapped at the opportunity and was stunned st how he moved the torque band down.  I got my Evo flash installed on Christmas Day and couldn’t wait to go get some milk, or any excuse to get out. This was my present and Boy was it a blast. 

I’ve got nearly 30,000 miles on Steve’s flash and I am constantly saying, this is the best performance value you can buy for this bike - bar none. 

To me, you can’t get better.  He has taken the time to tell me how he achieved his work - by making countless high speed runs in the middle of my home state of Florida and feeling every Gear and throttle position.  He did it the hard way - with the Dyno to prove his theories - not the other way around.  I use Steve’s products, because I trust and believe him.  More importantly, he’s a no b******* kind of guy.  He ask that I review the product and post my comments, and say whatever I wanted.  You’ve got to believe in your product to say that. 

I led a rally in the Carolina mountains in late May were we ran 2500 miles - just in the twists.  It’s there youvreally feel all of his hard work coming out.  There isn’t a moment where I roll on the throttle and don’t get a rush and think where that came from. 

Steve.  I couldn’t be happier.  Keep up your good work to this bike and the Concours community. 

Phil Parker
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Deepsea on September 03, 2017, 02:20:22 am
rcannon,


I have a few questions for you. Please answer honestly and lets end this.


1. As Steve asked. What is your relationship to/with Ivan?
2. Did you corroborate with Ivan in any way regarding this thread?
3. Was Ivan aware of your initial posting at the time you posted it?
4. How many times did you query Steve about his flash while Ivan was developing his? Why?
5. Did you pass the information learned from Steve to Ivan?
6. Why was the page on Ivan's site taken down?
7. Did you really read the description on Steve's web site and think the Evolution graph insinuated it    was run with a stock exhaust when in fact it was with a slipon?
8. What did you think "Built and depicted" meant?
9. Please define what you think "Stock" means as it pertains to motorcycles.
10. What is/was your end goal pertaining to this thread?


Anxiously awaiting your answers.
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Deepsea on September 03, 2017, 02:53:43 am
Steve,


It's pretty unusual for any vendor to have this kind of support. It really goes to show how your customer base feels toward you. You are in the rarified company of the Finest people I've every known. If you knew me you'd know just how short that list is and I've never actually met Steve.


Now if you can find a helmet big enough to fit enjoy the ride.




The above comments were unpaid and unsolicited. I will however accept any funds offered. :great:
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: rcannon409 on September 03, 2017, 01:07:56 pm
I  have no relationship with Ivan other than a happy paying customer.

I can't speak for Ivan's actions because I don't know.

A lot of you that have repli >:D >:Ded here tried to discredit and reject everything since my very first post about Ivan's work including my membership here,  posting email response from Ivan's business associates, assuming ivans customer service is inferior with nothing to back it up.

All unfounded negative with no other reason but to discredit.

BTW, my bike made 53mpg on the open road with this flash if I keep it under 75 mph.

Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: turbo-max on September 03, 2017, 02:01:32 pm
rcannon,

you need to go somewhere else and p--s off people
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on September 03, 2017, 02:27:05 pm

A lot of you that have repli >:D >:Ded here tried to discredit and reject everything since my very first post about Ivan's work including my membership here,  posting email response from Ivan's business associates, assuming ivans customer service is inferior with nothing to back it up.

All unfounded negative with no other reason but to discredit.

 Yeah, it's everyone else's fault.

  You might want to go back and see who actually made unfounded negative statements with no other reason to discredit.

  And you may also look to see that I never even posted on this thread until you made claims about my business ethic and honesty.

  In fact, if anyone on this thread has helped Ivan, it's been me.

  Oh, and your fuel economy... quite good ... you could have had that 2 years ago, like all the rest of my clients have  :motonoises:

   I'll say one thing for you Roland, at least you're not a Quitter  :-[

  Steve
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Deepsea on September 03, 2017, 03:37:50 pm
Roland,
  Thank you for answering questions #1 and 6.
I have made no a**-u-me s in this conversation, can't speak for anyone else. I asked the 10 questions to clarify the salient points specifically to avoid those a**-u-me umptions.
  Are you going to answer the other 8 questions or shall we just let this whole issue die? Perhaps letting go at this point is for the best. Enough has been said to cause some hurt all around. Lets move on and do what we do best, Ride our Bikes and have fun with friends.


Michael
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: rcannon409 on September 04, 2017, 12:44:05 pm
Deepsea, I'm good with letting it die.... hopefully everyone else feels the same as you.

Ivan does not discuss what reflash he is going to release, or not going
to release.  He listed in black on this page just below the list of bikes.

http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/ecu.htm (http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/ecu.htm)

I had no idea this new reflash was available until I saw it on his site. 
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: turbo-max on September 04, 2017, 02:54:59 pm
Deepsea, I'm good with letting it die.... hopefully everyone else feels the same as you.


nope,i don't feel the same.
 you started bad shizit and never properly apologized for your lies and calling another member on here a liar, imo you are a jerk that suffers from "little mans syndrome" but that's just my personal opinion.
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Bruce_Reafsnider_TN on September 04, 2017, 04:01:08 pm
Roland, can I give you some advice?  Just stop posting in this thread.  If you feel strongly that Ivan's flash is good, start a new thread.  Discuss its merits.  Point out Ivan's reputation, the hard work he's done, give it glowing reviews.  If it truly is as good as you say, it will catch on.  But there's no reason at all to mention other vendors, nor question their ethics, in order to sell a good product. Keep it positive about Ivan & his flash.  Because I'm going to tell you a little secret:  In my opinion there are 2 vendors in COGdom who are untouchable.  Their work ethic, products, and honesty have never been questioned. They are Gary Murphy and Steve Sefsick.  If you try to sell your friend's product by bashing one of the most respected vendors (and members) in COG, well you see how it's turned out.  So, looking forward to another thread, now that you've put some miles on the flash give some real world before/after insights and good luck.
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Deepsea on September 04, 2017, 04:13:10 pm
First let me say I've never met or had any dealings with Ivan.
 What I do have is a very good understanding of Dyno graphs. To say that an additional 500 RPM provides a "Hard pull" when his own dyno shows a DROP in both Hp and Tq between 10.5k and 11k is mystifing to say the least. To provide a "Hard pull" requires increasing power.


Sorry, I know I said to let this drop and I will. Bye for now.
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on September 04, 2017, 06:33:37 pm
Roland, can I give you some advice?  Just stop posting in this thread.  If you feel strongly that Ivan's flash is good, start a new thread.  Discuss its merits.  Point out Ivan's reputation, the hard work he's done, give it glowing reviews.  If it truly is as good as you say, it will catch on.  But there's no reason at all to mention other vendors, nor question their ethics, in order to sell a good product. Keep it positive about Ivan & his flash.  Because I'm going to tell you a little secret:  In my opinion there are 2 vendors in COGdom who are untouchable.  Their work ethic, products, and honesty have never been questioned. They are Gary Murphy and Steve Sefsick.  If you try to sell your friend's product by bashing one of the most respected vendors (and members) in COG, well you see how it's turned out.  So, looking forward to another thread, now that you've put some miles on the flash give some real world before/after insights and good luck.

My opinion is just let it lay....

Please DONT start another thread, this one was painful enough to watch... we don't need another one, which will deteriorate just as this one did.. simple fact, it WILL happen... so...

He said everything he wanted to, or needed to about his experience, and satisfaction... leave it at that...please....
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Deepsea on September 04, 2017, 06:40:28 pm
I just can't seem to help myself. I went back and re-read everything on Ivan's site about his C14 flash and found this. I did click on his "Contact" but again no email and I'm not going to call.
"The Concours 14 shares the same reciprocating parts as it's sibling ZX14 ie;
Crankshaft, connecting rods, piston pins, and valves.... all the same part # (for all years of C14)
ZX14 pistons have higher domes and are just slightly higher compression"

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong. Aren't the ZX14 pistons forged and the C14 cast? Big difference. It's not just reciprocating parts that are important. ALL ROTATING mass is critical to accelerating and decelerating. It's why a light weight crank rev's so much faster than a heavier one.

I know, I need to let this go.
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: ConcoursKZ on September 04, 2017, 07:42:27 pm
Every flash thread turns into a drama event.
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: 4Bikes on September 04, 2017, 09:15:57 pm
Every flash thread turns into a drama event.
I have to contest this. We have what seems like a thousand or so threads about flashing. Most are very favorable and positive reports-albeit repeating in that sense-which gets old.  So I don't see the drama part?  I think the OP was called out appropriately and there was some semanlance of an apology and plenty of rebuttals.  So let this one die.......... :deadhorse:
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: rcannon409 on September 04, 2017, 09:21:02 pm
I just can't seem to help myself. I went back and re-read everything on Ivan's site about his C14 flash and found this. I did click on his "Contact" but again no email and I'm not going to call.
"The Concours 14 shares the same reciprocating parts as it's sibling ZX14 ie;
Crankshaft, connecting rods, piston pins, and valves.... all the same part # (for all years of C14)
ZX14 pistons have higher domes and are just slightly higher compression"

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong. Aren't the ZX14 pistons forged and the C14 cast? Big difference. It's not just reciprocating parts that are important. ALL ROTATING mass is critical to accelerating and decelerating. It's why a light weight crank rev's so much faster than a heavier one.

I know, I need to let this go.

I agreed as well, but I do know the answer to the rev limit question....The limiter has been raised to 10,500 from 10,000 and is optional if someone doesn't want it. 

In my case, I went for it, and its a nice improvement.   I believe this type of thing is exactly why he does the phone call, and not e mail. 
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Deepsea on September 04, 2017, 09:27:06 pm
From 10k to 10.5k ? My 09 hits the limit at 10.5 and even then surprises my every time. Was there a change between Gen 1 and 2 of the C14?
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: COGnosticator on September 04, 2017, 09:30:26 pm
Is it time for a moderator to lock this thread   >:(
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Old Man on a Connie on September 04, 2017, 10:46:20 pm
Is it time for a moderator to lock this thread   >:(
No, no lock, it's just time for people to stop replying to it and LET IT DIE!. Poop, just did it myself didn't I  ;)
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: ConcoursKZ on September 04, 2017, 11:05:34 pm
Five pages to be considered a masterpiece of illiteration.  Come on guys you can give six pages easy maybe more. Reading this it's kind of like watching Pawn Stars or OCC Choppers.
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: rcannon409 on September 04, 2017, 11:07:40 pm
From 10k to 10.5k ? My 09 hits the limit at 10.5 and even then surprises my every time. Was there a change between Gen 1 and 2 of the C14?

No, you are right..No idea if there was a change, but the tach display we see is  optimistic. I know my ninja 1000 is off by about 1500rpm, at the redline area. Dont know if this one is quite as bad, but its not "dead on" accurate, either. 

So, real "10,500" looks more like 11,500, from our tach display. 
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Deepsea on September 05, 2017, 12:08:21 am
My independent Data Logger agrees with the Tach within 50-75 rpm.
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Deepsea on September 05, 2017, 12:11:43 am
Man, I did it again. Anyone know when the next COG Anonymous meeting is? >:(
I'm starting to think I need addiction counseling. :truce:

Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Zarticus on September 05, 2017, 01:50:02 am
Flash or no flash shifting at anything over 10,000 is a waste of time on these bikes, Just shift to the next gear to keep going faster.  :motonoises:
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Deepsea on September 05, 2017, 02:01:33 am
Very true, except when in 6th gear :-[ .
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: Alan_Yucius_FL on September 05, 2017, 02:08:04 am
 :105: :deadhorse: :banghead: :ecomcity: :017: :violent-smiley-007: :021: :pokestick: :allhail: :character0029:
Title: Re: Ivans New reflash for the Concours 14
Post by: RoadKillHeaven on September 05, 2017, 08:13:42 am
How about my duck, is it better than Ivan's flash?