Author Topic: KiPASS and extra keys  (Read 13570 times)

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Offline WadeNelson

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KiPASS and extra keys
« on: July 31, 2014, 10:52:02 pm »
Don't get me started on how retarded the entire KiPass system is requiring both a fob AND a key to operate a bike.  And demanding that riders read the minutiae of the owners manual to understand what to do when the fob battery dies, which it will eventually do to ALL riders.   

But what you DON'T want to do is to wear out your ignition switch constantly removing the METAL key to open your gas tank, saddle bags, seat latch, etc.

Carry a SECOND key with you for fuel stops, the 3 runs (or more) between the bike and the motel room hauling luggage, etc.

A second key is a helluva lot cheaper than replacing the ignition switch from all those presses and turns.

I'd like to ask the Kawasaki engineers behind this abortion WHERE THE HELL are you supposed to store your BACKUP FOB?   You can't store it on the bike, you really don't want TWO of 'em in your pocket, so the best i can come up with is inside a blank FEDX envelope at home someone can send me out on the road when the first fob breaks, gets lost, whatever.

it's the most retarded locking system on any vehicle I've ever owned or worked on.



Offline WadeNelson

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Re: KiPASS and extra keys
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2014, 10:56:48 pm »
And when you starts to type, "But there's a tiny key built into the fob" my reply is..."Please give me a part # to order one because my local Kawasaki dealership can't find it or order it, so my 2nd fob is currently keyless."
 

Offline Ranger Jim

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Re: KiPASS and extra keys
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2014, 11:03:40 pm »
Wade, you really shouldn't hold your feelings in. Let them out and tell folks how you really feel. :rotflmao:  Kipass is a solution in search of a problem. I think you should draft a letter (that's right, good old fashioned snail mail letter) to Kawasaki. Be polite, concise and express your dissatisfaction. You might be surprised at the result.
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Offline jwh20

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Re: KiPASS and extra keys
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2014, 11:24:38 pm »
And when you starts to type, "But there's a tiny key built into the fob" my reply is..."Please give me a part # to order one because my local Kawasaki dealership can't find it or order it, so my 2nd fob is currently keyless."

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Offline MikeJ

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Re: KiPASS and extra keys
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2014, 11:29:05 pm »
I feel your pain, but if it's any consolation any good locksmith can cut you a spare key for around $4.
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Offline BDF

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Re: KiPASS and extra keys
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2014, 12:32:42 am »
I promise, I won't get you started but you do seem to be in 'auto start' mode.

And you sound exactly like a guy I used to know....

 :rotflmao:

Brian

Don't get me started on how retarded the entire KiPass system is requiring both a fob AND a key to operate a bike.  And demanding that riders read the minutiae of the owners manual to understand what to do when the fob battery dies, which it will eventually do to ALL riders.   

But what you DON'T want to do is to wear out your ignition switch constantly removing the METAL key to open your gas tank, saddle bags, seat latch, etc.

Carry a SECOND key with you for fuel stops, the 3 runs (or more) between the bike and the motel room hauling luggage, etc.

A second key is a helluva lot cheaper than replacing the ignition switch from all those presses and turns.

I'd like to ask the Kawasaki engineers behind this abortion WHERE THE HELL are you supposed to store your BACKUP FOB?   You can't store it on the bike, you really don't want TWO of 'em in your pocket, so the best i can come up with is inside a blank FEDX envelope at home someone can send me out on the road when the first fob breaks, gets lost, whatever.

it's the most retarded locking system on any vehicle I've ever owned or worked on.
KiPass keeping you up at night? Has the low fuel warning burned your retinas? Find peace, harmony and the answer to these problems. www.incontrolne.com

Offline WadeNelson

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Re: KiPASS and extra keys
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2014, 12:42:53 am »
And when you starts to type, "But there's a tiny key built into the fob" my reply is..."Please give me a part # to order one because my local Kawasaki dealership can't find it or order it, so my 2nd fob is currently keyless."

27008-0048

Thank you.  As I posted in my earlier rant about my local dealer, they truly seem to be incompetent, at least when it comes to the C-14. 

Offline WadeNelson

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Re: KiPASS and extra keys
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2014, 12:46:10 am »
And when you starts to type, "But there's a tiny key built into the fob" my reply is..."Please give me a part # to order one because my local Kawasaki dealership can't find it or order it, so my 2nd fob is currently keyless."

27008-0048

What can I say.  More evidence my local dealer (Fun Center, Durango CO) is incompetent.  They ASSURED me they could neither find nor order it.


Offline WadeNelson

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Re: KiPASS and extra keys
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2014, 12:56:48 am »
I feel your pain, but if it's any consolation any good locksmith can cut you a spare key for around $4.

Try living in a small mountain town awhile, Mickster.  With a local dealer who's either incompetent or doesn't give a rat's a** about selling/cutting keys.

Fun Center of Durango didn't have blanks (neither plain blanks in stock, nor the special fob blanks, for which they could not deduce a part #) , nor did any local locksmiths (despite it being a standard ILCO key blank)

No, I don't want to "order it" and drive 50 miles a SECOND time to get it cut by you yoyo's.

So I ended up ordering a blank from the Internet for "only" $10.99.  Quite a markup for a $3.99 blank.  But that's cheaper than gas for another 2 runs to town.   Turns out there are "A" and "B" keys with the groove on different sides.  Fortunately I ordered the correct one, and the nearby hardware store cut it for free, with the caveat...."we can't guarantee this...."  And fortunate for a 3rd time, the cut worked.

I've spent endless hours over a period of 3 months and over $300 just to get a 2nd fob, programmed, and extra key for my bike.  That's total bullcrap.  Thanks a lot Kawasaki, and Fun Center!








Offline LSGiant

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Re: KiPASS and extra keys
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2014, 01:05:25 am »
Sorry for the frustration. I wanted a a real size key as a second so my dealer was nice enough to let me take keys out of the Cruisers (big keys) until I found a blank that fit my bike. I ordered a couple of those and had them cut to use in the saddlebags and gas tank. I think I have had my key out of the center ignition a half dozen times. I like the KIPASS Fob I wear my Stich always and the FOB stays in that.  The factory center key stays put and my spare is safely kept somewhere else. The key I had made is the one that moves around and typically gets misplaced.
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Offline WadeNelson

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Re: KiPASS and extra keys
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2014, 01:07:27 am »
Can anyone me about this $35 "emergency" key fob, like how it differs from the regular one, [part #, etc?

Offline WadeNelson

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Re: KiPASS and extra keys
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2014, 01:12:45 am »
I promise, I won't get you started but you do seem to be in 'auto start' mode.

It's been a bad day.  So I vent by complaining about KiPASS instead of dragging him out of his car and beating hell out of  some stranger who cuts me off in traffic and then flips ME the bird.   Indulge me.


Offline fartymarty

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Re: KiPASS and extra keys
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2014, 06:37:52 am »
Can anyone [tell] me about this $35 "emergency" key fob, like how it differs from the regular one, [part #, etc?

The part number is 21175-0256 (approx. $34.84) there is also a small metal key for it but that must be ordered separately
the part number for the "B" key is 27008-0063 (approx. $15.96). You'll also need to have a Kawasaki dealer "register" it
with your C14 KIPASS or it won't work.  Expect at least a half hour of labor charge to register the fob and cut the key.

Unlike the larger "active" fobs, this smaller passive fob must be held at a specific spot in a specific way when the stove knob key
is pressed down for KIPASS to recognize it and allow the key to be turned. For most, the use of the emergency fob requires two hands.
It has no battery in it, and is much smaller than the regular fob at approx. 2/3s the length, 2/3s the width and less than half the thickness of the regular fob. .

Reading the owners manual online at the Kawasaki web site for the C14 any year after '09 should provide you with more info about using the emergency fob as well as how to
use the regular fob when the fob battery is dead.

It's been a bad day.  So I vent by complaining about KiPASS instead of dragging him out of his car and beating hell out of  some stranger who cuts me off in traffic and then flips ME the bird.   Indulge me.

Ahaaa.... so now the mighty powah of the KIPASS is keeping owner's out of jail and helping to avoid large payments to criminal attorneys.
 Is there no end to the wonderful things that the mighty powah of KIPASS can do? I think not.  :D
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 06:42:54 am by fartymarty »

Offline BDF

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Re: KiPASS and extra keys
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2014, 11:30:37 am »
Now pay attention Marty- he lives in a small town with an incompetent dealer a long way away- they can't find the key or order it so how do you suppose the 'programming the bike to recognize' a new one is going to go?

And he already told us he does NOT want to read the manual! C'mon now, pay attention Marty!

But of course you are right about KiPass and all of its mystical, magical powers. All hail KiPass! As I have said in the olden days when this topic first cropped up (and you know from whence it cropped....)

"Confucius say: 'Man who not like KiPass must have sat on chop stick and done brain damage!' "

 :rotflmao:

Brian


The part number is 21175-0256 (approx. $34.84) there is also a small metal key for it but that must be ordered separately
the part number for the "B" key is 27008-0063 (approx. $15.96). You'll also need to have a Kawasaki dealer "register" it
with your C14 KIPASS or it won't work.  Expect at least a half hour of labor charge to register the fob and cut the key.

<snip>

Reading the owners manual online at the Kawasaki web site for the C14 any year after '09 should provide you with more info about using the emergency fob as well as how to
use the regular fob when the fob battery is dead.

Ahaaa.... so now the mighty powah of the KIPASS is keeping owner's out of jail and helping to avoid large payments to criminal attorneys.
 Is there no end to the wonderful things that the mighty powah of KIPASS can do? I think not.  :D
KiPass keeping you up at night? Has the low fuel warning burned your retinas? Find peace, harmony and the answer to these problems. www.incontrolne.com

Offline jwh20

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Re: KiPASS and extra keys
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2014, 11:52:29 am »
Now pay attention Marty- he lives in a small town with an incompetent dealer a long way away- they can't find the key or order it so how do you suppose the 'programming the bike to recognize' a new one is going to go?

That would be my #1 concern!  if this dealer can't even find the PN in the parts diagram, how could they possibly do ANYTHING more complicated like change the oil?
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Offline BDF

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Re: KiPASS and extra keys
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2014, 11:55:28 am »
Some of the smaller dealers do not even have KDS so they cannot program the bike regardless of any incompetency. Maybe that is a good thing in disguise though? :-)

Brian


That would be my #1 concern!  if this dealer can't even find the PN in the parts diagram, how could they possibly do ANYTHING more complicated like change the oil?
KiPass keeping you up at night? Has the low fuel warning burned your retinas? Find peace, harmony and the answer to these problems. www.incontrolne.com

Offline Turbo

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Re: KiPASS and extra keys
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2014, 12:09:53 pm »
Hello; Mike here. Does anybody know how to change the actual key inside the large plastic ignition key assembly? What do you do when that key gets worn to the point where it no longer works? Mine still works fine, but it is getting worn. When people are getting other keys cut, which key are they using for the sample? The extra key inside the FOB? Please let me know. Thanks. Mike.

Offline Joe

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Re: KiPASS and extra keys
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2014, 12:11:30 pm »
Some of the smaller dealers do not even have KDS so they cannot program the bike regardless of any incompetency. Maybe that is a good thing in disguise though? :-)

Brian


That would be my #1 concern!  if this dealer can't even find the PN in the parts diagram, how could they possibly do ANYTHING more complicated like change the oil?
I go to a "smaller dealer" and have had very good service from them, with the disclaimer that they have not worked on a C14 before so it may take longer.  They had not used their KDS system, but had it when my bike was in early spring for TPMS sensors and new tires.  I left the bike for 2 days.  When I picked it up all was well.  Service guy did admit to making a call to a help line, but it was done... and done right.  They earned my future business.  I know this is not always the case.  The larger dealer that is closer to where I live will see none of my money!
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Offline fartymarty

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Re: KiPASS and extra keys
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2014, 01:55:08 pm »
Now pay attention Marty- he lives in a small town with an incompetent dealer a long way away- they can't find the key or order it so how do you suppose the 'programming the bike to recognize' a new one is going to go?

And he already told us he does NOT want to read the manual! C'mon now, pay attention Marty!

But of course you are right about KiPass and all of its mystical, magical powers. All hail KiPass! As I have said in the olden days when this topic first cropped up (and you know from whence it cropped....)

"Confucius say: 'Man who not like KiPass must have sat on chop stick and done brain damage!' "

 :rotflmao:

Brian

 :rotflmao:  That Confucius one big funny guy! Big funny..rarry big funny!

Well I thought I was being helpful. You'll note that I didn't say he needed to go to his local dealer. I'll admit that I did
miss the part about not wanting to read the owners manual. There seems to be an awful lot of that going around lately.
I wonder if switching to full synthetic oil will change that trend? Anybody? Anybody?  ;D  :popcorn:
I'm going to start paying more attention, I promise. It'll certainly save me a bunch of typing.  :)

Hello; Mike here. Does anybody know how to change the actual key inside the large plastic ignition key assembly? What do you do when that key gets worn to the point where it no longer works? Mine still works fine, but it is getting worn. When people are getting other keys cut, which key are they using for the sample? The extra key inside the FOB? Please let me know. Thanks. Mike.

Order a new one and have the dealer cut it. If your dealer is not close (or incompetent) , then just show your stove knob key to a local competent locksmith and ask if they could cut one if you provided the blank. (there is a roll pin that they may need to push out to cut the key) If the answer is yes then order a blank online.(partzilla, Ron Ayers)  A key = 27008-0050 KEY-LOCK,BLANK,#A MAIN SWITCH; B key = 27008-0051 KEY-LOCK,BLANK,#B,MAIN SWITCH ...see the online fiche to determine which one you need, A or B.

My stove knob isn't getting very worn as I never remove it. I'm certainly no locksmith, but I would think that the easiest key to make a copy of is the little metal one from the
emergency passive fob, at least on the '10 and up C14s.

Offline BDF

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Re: KiPASS and extra keys
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2014, 02:32:49 pm »
Yep, that is about it if you need a stove knob key: order one through a dealer, have them cut the key to fit the bike if possible, or a locksmith if the dealer cannot do it.

KiPass: way back in the early days, most of the discussion around the Concours forum ended up entering 'The KiPass Zone'. It was downright amazing. Polls, people 'screaming out' their love or hate for the system, a complete lack of understanding of how it worked.... it was wonderful. Why we even had threads about the best lube to use on the stove knob key (I kid you not- they were fantastic!). I used to change my sig. line about once a week that the Confucius line was one of them.  A few others:

KiPass: the finest remote authentication system ever put on a Concours 1400

The optimist thinks KiPass is the finest system available. The pessimist fears this is true.

Oh yeah, this has been the topic of the month for many months. It has really died down in the last year or two; out of kindness, I will not mention why this is the case. But every once in a while, someone comes along who is new to KiPass and sort of.... well, 'goes off'. One of the underlying problems is that as vehicles get more complicated, there is no additional method available to educate the buyers. Dealers certainly are not going to spend the time, and that assumes they understand how it works in the first place (many do not).

Brian


 :rotflmao:  That Confucius one big funny guy! Big funny..rarry big funny!

Well I thought I was being helpful. You'll note that I didn't say he needed to go to his local dealer. I'll admit that I did
miss the part about not wanting to read the owners manual. There seems to be an awful lot of that going around lately.
I wonder if switching to full synthetic oil will change that trend? Anybody? Anybody?  ;D  :popcorn:
I'm going to start paying more attention, I promise. It'll certainly save me a bunch of typing.  :)


Order a new one and have the dealer cut it. If your dealer is not close (or incompetent) , then just show your stove knob key to a local competent locksmith and ask if they could cut one if you provided the blank. (there is a roll pin that they may need to push out to cut the key) If the answer is yes then order a blank online.(partzilla, Ron Ayers)  A key = 27008-0050 KEY-LOCK,BLANK,#A MAIN SWITCH; B key = 27008-0051 KEY-LOCK,BLANK,#B,MAIN SWITCH ...see the online fiche to determine which one you need, A or B.

My stove knob isn't getting very worn as I never remove it. I'm certainly no locksmith, but I would think that the easiest key to make a copy of is the little metal one from the
emergency passive fob, at least on the '10 and up C14s.
KiPass keeping you up at night? Has the low fuel warning burned your retinas? Find peace, harmony and the answer to these problems. www.incontrolne.com

Offline Rembrant

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Re: KiPASS and extra keys
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2014, 03:12:59 pm »
I've been away a while...

Hey look, an angry KiPass thread...lol.

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Offline jwh20

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Re: KiPASS and extra keys
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2014, 03:27:10 pm »
Yep, that is about it if you need a stove knob key: order one through a dealer, have them cut the key to fit the bike if possible, or a locksmith if the dealer cannot do it.

KiPass: way back in the early days, most of the discussion around the Concours forum ended up entering 'The KiPass Zone'. It was downright amazing. Polls, people 'screaming out' their love or hate for the system, a complete lack of understanding of how it worked.... it was wonderful. Why we even had threads about the best lube to use on the stove knob key (I kid you not- they were fantastic!). I used to change my sig. line about once a week that the Confucius line was one of them.  A few others:

KiPass: the finest remote authentication system ever put on a Concours 1400

The optimist thinks KiPass is the finest system available. The pessimist fears this is true.

I don't currently own an automobile with a keyless entry/ignition system but I think it's inevitable as this technology moves across the market.  I recently had a rental car, Nissan Altima, that had a keyless system that might even have been the auto version of the KiPass system.  It sure worked similarly except that there was only the "start button" on the dash.  There was a key in the FOB that was very much like the Kawasaki FOB key but it wasn't clear what you might do with it.  I didn't see a lock on the door or the trunk to use the key in.

Perhaps I'm old-fashioned since I prefer a regular key for both cars and motorcycles but I'm not going to get rid of my C14 over this KiPass thing and I expect the next time I buy a car it won't be a deal-breaker if the thing has a keyless system.

Bottom line is get used to this.  I'm sure it will be nearly universal before too much longer.
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Offline 4Bikes

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Re: KiPASS and extra keys
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2014, 04:42:26 pm »
I have a feature request for the forum software to fix threads like these.

The programming is something like this…….

10  If entry="oi", then <lock keyboard>
20  If entry="KIPA", then <lock keyboard>
30   next thread <unlock keyboard>

 :nananana:
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Offline BDF

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Re: KiPASS and extra keys
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2014, 04:52:45 pm »
That would reduce the amusement content by 30% easily and maybe more. Kirby and I both vote against that idea- I will have to ask Mr. Elkhoof later. :-)

By the way, on very hot days, Mr. Elkhoof still makes the occasional drop of oil..... anybody wanna' guess what kind of oil?

Brian

I have a feature request for the forum software to fix threads like these.

The programming is something like this…….

10  If entry="oi", then <lock keyboard>
20  If entry="KIPA", then <lock keyboard>
30   next thread <unlock keyboard>

 :nananana:
KiPass keeping you up at night? Has the low fuel warning burned your retinas? Find peace, harmony and the answer to these problems. www.incontrolne.com

Offline BDF

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Re: KiPASS and extra keys
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2014, 05:03:12 pm »
KiPass actually IS an automotive system manufactured by Mitsubishi. It works on the MISTY system, written and patented by Mitsubishi. All of the parts of KiPass itself (fobs, KiPass ECU, RFID mechanism) are made by Mitsubishi and all have been used in quite a few Japanese cars for quite some time. Similar systems have also been and are being used by Ducati and BMW.

By the way, this is absolutely not a keyless system nor does it claim to be; it is a remote authentication system.

I have been around since the days of distributors, carburators and the very tail- end of generators (with external regulators). I have had to listen to 'them asses' no, wait I meant 'the masses' complain, whine, wail, and generally make a fuss over alternators, alternators with built in regulators, electronic ignition all the way from CDI to today's distributor-less and C.O.P. types, and of course.... fuel injection. It seems to take about two decades for these things to fade into 'normalcy' and then it is just forgotten about altogether.

I spent some time around my mother's uncle, born in 1898, and had to listen to him extol the virtues of kerosene headlights over the electric types. Really!

So we are merely in the midst of yet another change, and some will always resist it. The item being discussed changes but the complaints are always the same..... 'Why do XXX, we've been doing YYYY for decades!' and so forth.

Brian

I don't currently own an automobile with a keyless entry/ignition system but I think it's inevitable as this technology moves across the market.  I recently had a rental car, Nissan Altima, that had a keyless system that might even have been the auto version of the KiPass system.  It sure worked similarly except that there was only the "start button" on the dash.  There was a key in the FOB that was very much like the Kawasaki FOB key but it wasn't clear what you might do with it.  I didn't see a lock on the door or the trunk to use the key in.

Perhaps I'm old-fashioned since I prefer a regular key for both cars and motorcycles but I'm not going to get rid of my C14 over this KiPass thing and I expect the next time I buy a car it won't be a deal-breaker if the thing has a keyless system.

Bottom line is get used to this.  I'm sure it will be nearly universal before too much longer.
KiPass keeping you up at night? Has the low fuel warning burned your retinas? Find peace, harmony and the answer to these problems. www.incontrolne.com