Author Topic: Linked brakes,,  (Read 2247 times)

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Offline Gixerhp

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Linked brakes,,
« on: August 01, 2017, 09:38:27 am »
Well i had a very scary brake problem on Sunday, we where out riding, for a few hours, and i noticed that the linked braking was getting more intense.
While coming up to a stop light, i was on the front brake slowing down tapped the rear, and the front locked up,
Didn't trigger the ABS, but the front wheel locked up,, scared the crap out of me,,
I tried to duplicate the problem, but was not going as fast,, it still is very vary grabby, per say. has any one else had this happen,,,
My front rotors are a little warped, and im dropping off for Warranty work for the rotors.
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Offline roy826

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Re: Linked brakes,,
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2017, 12:43:06 pm »
My brakes are all over the place with unpredictable behavior. I just ordered the front fender loop line up for an 08 model non abs and longer union caliper bolt with washers and the two loop line fender clamps. I'm done with linked brakes especially Kawasaki's version of them.
'12 Concours 14, '16 GSX-S1000, '15 GSX-R600 racebike, '15 WR250F

Offline Gixerhp

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Re: Linked brakes,,
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2017, 01:44:22 pm »
My brakes are all over the place with unpredictable behavior. I just ordered the front fender loop line up for an 08 model non abs and longer union caliper bolt with washers and the two loop line fender clamps. I'm done with linked brakes especially Kawasaki's version of them.
It is never the same,,,
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Offline roy826

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Re: Linked brakes,,
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2017, 01:49:59 pm »
My brakes are all over the place with unpredictable behavior. I just ordered the front fender loop line up for an 08 model non abs and longer union caliper bolt with washers and the two loop line fender clamps. I'm done with linked brakes especially Kawasaki's version of them.
It is never the same,,,

So true
'12 Concours 14, '16 GSX-S1000, '15 GSX-R600 racebike, '15 WR250F

Offline seagiant1

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Re: Linked brakes,,
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2017, 02:21:27 pm »
Hi,
      My brakes are great! :great:

Have you guys been flushing the brake system??? :(
“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.” -Samuel Adams

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Offline OKC14

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Re: Linked brakes,,
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2017, 02:42:38 pm »
I've literally never had a problem with the brakes, which is confusing when I hear others say they have nothing but. I flush/bleed the system every 5k miles with DOT4 Lucas and change pads as needed. Rotors are good, no ABS issues, and no weird lockups. 2011 with 62k miles so far, most of those with hard braking lol.

Offline seagiant1

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Re: Linked brakes,,
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2017, 03:12:03 pm »
I've literally never had a problem with the brakes, which is confusing when I hear others say they have nothing but. I flush/bleed the system every 5k miles with DOT4 Lucas and change pads as needed. Rotors are good, no ABS issues, and no weird lockups. 2011 with 62k miles so far, most of those with hard braking lol.


Hi,
       Yea, this actually sounded "strange" to me!

If you do a little research I think you will find most owners ....

See the Nissin brakes on the C14 exceptional!

Usually the faster anything will go....

The quicker, you need to stop it! ;D >:D >:D >:D

http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-14-zg1400-general-chat-and-tech/brembo-brakes/
« Last Edit: August 01, 2017, 03:16:02 pm by seagiant1 »
“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.” -Samuel Adams

"The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it"
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." George Orwell

Offline roy826

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Re: Linked brakes,,
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2017, 03:56:57 pm »
Brake components are good enough on it ie: calipers and what not. The linked computing logic and how it processes its information and reacts is the flaw. For people like me who road race and have been using brakes on motorcycles to an extreme for years on closed course tracks the Concours is an exercise for me in avoiding a crash the bikes braking system will create given the right situation. I have owned another brand bike with linked brakes and it was not a problem, it wasn't a Kawasaki either.

Yes I have bled the system it is no better.
'12 Concours 14, '16 GSX-S1000, '15 GSX-R600 racebike, '15 WR250F

Offline Gixerhp

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Re: Linked brakes,,
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2017, 07:47:18 pm »
Brake components are good enough on it ie: calipers and what not. The linked computing logic and how it processes its information and reacts is the flaw. For people like me who road race and have been using brakes on motorcycles to an extreme for years on closed course tracks the Concours is an exercise for me in avoiding a crash the bikes braking system will create given the right situation. I have owned another brand bike with linked brakes and it was not a problem, it wasn't a Kawasaki either.

Yes I have bled the system it is no better.
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Offline OKC14

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Re: Linked brakes,,
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2017, 07:52:08 pm »
For people like me who road race

Welllll.... there's your problem. Don't road race on 700lb sport tourer.   ;)

I kid.

Offline roy826

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Re: Linked brakes,,
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2017, 10:42:28 pm »
Well the cross over loop line is on backorder no eta given. Well I have a loop line I took off my GSXR 600 which was brand new when I removed it last dec to race prep the bike.

Will look into whether it'll fit or not tomorrow.
'12 Concours 14, '16 GSX-S1000, '15 GSX-R600 racebike, '15 WR250F

Offline roy826

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Re: Linked brakes,,
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2017, 10:43:46 pm »
For people like me who road race

Welllll.... there's your problem. Don't road race on 700lb sport tourer.   ;)

I kid.


Lol yea I probably should slow down but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
'12 Concours 14, '16 GSX-S1000, '15 GSX-R600 racebike, '15 WR250F

Offline C14lvr

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Re: Linked brakes,,
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2017, 02:53:44 am »
Have you tried changing the setting to the less aggressive mode?
Maybe that'll help?
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1982 Yamaha XJ1100J (sold)
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Offline RoadKillHeaven

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Re: Linked brakes,,
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2017, 05:22:11 am »
I find brakes on 16 C14 more that adequate for stopping 690Lbs+rider in any condition. 15+ C14 have different 1st gear brake logic, so there is less chance of parking lot, slow driving, maneuver mishaps. I find foot pedal actuation is soft (in default K-act setting)and predictable. If aggressive braking is desired, squeeze and press at the same time. I guarantee ABS will kick in. I've fealt it few times already.
Strangely though, ABS failed to activate when front tire slipped on white zebra crossing during cornering. Front tire just locked up, skidded a few inches or so and re-gained traction. It wasn't scary, just weird. 

P.S I've had strange braking behavior in my track car after some fine dust entered(embeded) between pad and rotor. Up until we've taken that side brake components apart and cleaned them, it kept locking up under hard braking. Perhaps you've experienced momentary contamination of front/rear brakes.   

Cheers...
« Last Edit: August 02, 2017, 05:27:19 am by RoadKillHeaven »

Offline roy826

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Re: Linked brakes,,
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2017, 10:21:48 am »
Have you tried changing the setting to the less aggressive mode?
Maybe that'll help?

Yes that is the only setting I use the other one is worse way worse.
'12 Concours 14, '16 GSX-S1000, '15 GSX-R600 racebike, '15 WR250F

Offline roy826

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Re: Linked brakes,,
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2017, 10:23:52 am »
I find brakes on 16 C14 more that adequate for stopping 690Lbs+rider in any condition. 15+ C14 have different 1st gear brake logic, so there is less chance of parking lot, slow driving, maneuver mishaps. I find foot pedal actuation is soft (in default K-act setting)and predictable. If aggressive braking is desired, squeeze and press at the same time. I guarantee ABS will kick in. I've fealt it few times already.
Strangely though, ABS failed to activate when front tire slipped on white zebra crossing during cornering. Front tire just locked up, skidded a few inches or so and re-gained traction. It wasn't scary, just weird. 

P.S I've had strange braking behavior in my track car after some fine dust entered(embeded) between pad and rotor. Up until we've taken that side brake components apart and cleaned them, it kept locking up under hard braking. Perhaps you've experienced momentary contamination of front/rear brakes.   

Cheers...

Mines a 12 whole different animal than the 16. If I knew what I know now I would not have bought one older than 15. But the price on this one with very low miles was too good to pass up....until I used the brakes the first time  :'(
'12 Concours 14, '16 GSX-S1000, '15 GSX-R600 racebike, '15 WR250F

Offline 4Bikes

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Re: Linked brakes,,
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2017, 10:46:40 am »
I've literally never had a problem with the brakes, which is confusing when I hear others say they have nothing but. I flush/bleed the system every 5k miles with DOT4 Lucas and change pads as needed. Rotors are good, no ABS issues, and no weird lockups. 2011 with 62k miles so far, most of those with hard braking lol.
Same year, and same experience.  No issues with the brakes, and I do maintain them.

Here is a link to a video that explains the logic behind the K-ACT linked braking system.  The second video explains the Traction control....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRqSTkwQRMM&feature=player_embedded



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buVH91pzgv8&feature=player_embedded
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Offline C14lvr

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Re: Linked brakes,,
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2017, 12:59:22 pm »
Have you tried changing the setting to the less aggressive mode?
Maybe that'll help?

Yes that is the only setting I use the other one is worse way worse.

Ok, wanna hear something strange? Mine's a 2011. Brake setting's on the more agressive setting.
No problems. I have changed out the pads and front rotors. But didn't have any issues with the factory stuff, either.

But, I don't ride like you're describing.

I would say if your front brake actually locks up without setting off the antilock, something's wrong with your brake system. If you still are under warranty, I'd have that checked out before something tragic happens. Doesn't sound right, to me.

I've got 2 friends who tried to stop suddenly when a truck pulled out in front of them, the lead guy applied his brakes, front locked up due to slick stuff on the road surface, and out the front end went.
He was on an '82 XS11 Maxim- too old for antilock or traction control, and had disabled the Maxim's linked brakes. He was being closely followed by a friend on a 5 year old FJR. His bike spun around as it went down, knocking the FJR's front end out. Both bikes were totaled.

I'll grant ya, lots of folks aren't big fans of linked brakes, but I see them as great in certain situations (straight line emergency braking, for example, for control of the back of the bike and an aid for front end control,) and downright scary in moderate to hard braking in twisties.

Guess in the real world, "Sometimes the fleas come with the dog."
Everything has it's drawbacks.

But yours may be having issues. I'd have that checked out asap.
Bob
2011 C14 ABS (current bike)
1982 Yamaha XJ1100J (sold)
1979 Yamaha XS11 (3200 original miles)
In the warden's words from Cool Hand Luke;
"What we have here is a failure to communicate."

Offline roy826

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Re: Linked brakes,,
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2017, 01:37:16 pm »
It is not locking up but adding more braking forces when I do not want any added. It is not a linear feel. It will stop straight line better than any motorcycle I have rode but hang it up if you are a trail braker to the apexes and use both brakes at a time or come in with one then the other. I also do not like the slow speed vague feeling on the rear either, must stand on it to get any clamping pressure. This bike is in excellent condition and the original owner took very good care of this bike it only had 5897 miles on it when I bought it. Stored in a nice climate controlled area and maintenance performed on time. I have bled the brakes and clutch and it had no effect what so ever. Used Kawasaki brake fluid.

This system may be great for most but I hate it, we will never like each other. I know how to stop a motorcycle and do not need the ECU helping me. I read about complaints on this model before buying but thought to myself how bad can it be, well it is terrible for me. In fact if I had rode it before buying it I would not have bought it based on the brakes. It was pouring rain that day and I just loaded it up and took it home. I like this motorcycle, it has so much good until I grab the brake lever or brake pedal then I'm like what the hell :o I'm fighting electronic braking >:(
'12 Concours 14, '16 GSX-S1000, '15 GSX-R600 racebike, '15 WR250F

Offline seagiant1

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Re: Linked brakes,,
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2017, 06:58:47 pm »
Hi,
      Well....I'm not a track racer, but try to push myself and learn every time I get on this wonderful bike....

I don't try to "trail brake" but...

I brake ahead of the curve while straight up, go into the turn....

And then power back up at the apex. (so linked brakes don't really bug me?)

I've read that this is what most racers do, but....

There's different ways to skin a cat??? ;D

“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.” -Samuel Adams

"The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it"
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." George Orwell

Offline curt1480

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Re: Linked brakes,,
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2017, 06:32:20 am »
I feel the exact same way, except I bought mine brand new and never had a single issue with the braking until I hit maybe the 3 or 4 thousand mark then it was like surprise.  I am not hard on the brakes and might have clamped down on them aggressively maybe once in about 6000 miles.

Offline jdegraff

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Re: Linked brakes,,
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2017, 12:33:09 pm »
I avoid linked brake issues by never using the rear brake.

Offline JDSCO

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Re: Linked brakes,,
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2017, 01:59:07 pm »
...but adding more braking forces when I do not want any added.
It is not a linear feel.
I also do not like the slow speed vague feeling on the rear either, must stand on it to get any clamping pressure.

This system may be great for most but I hate it
I read about complaints on this model before buying
I'm fighting electronic braking >:(

+1
I knew that the 2016 ABS was "linked" and "unable to be disabled" and I read user input regarding "linked" braking before I purchased it.
I thought I'd adapt and I bought it anyway.
My 2008 C14 was non-ABS.
This is my first ABS bike.
I like the ABS.
I think I've had two episodes where it maybe saved me from road gravel disaster.
I don't care for the "linked" braking.

I want ABS, no linked braking.

« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 03:55:35 pm by JDSCO »
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Offline Steiny

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Re: Linked brakes,,
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2017, 02:29:04 pm »
It is not locking up but adding more braking forces when I do not want any added. It is not a linear feel. It will stop straight line better than any motorcycle I have rode but hang it up if you are a trail braker to the apexes and use both brakes at a time or come in with one then the other. I also do not like the slow speed vague feeling on the rear either, must stand on it to get any clamping pressure. This bike is in excellent condition and the original owner took very good care of this bike it only had 5897 miles on it when I bought it. Stored in a nice climate controlled area and maintenance performed on time. I have bled the brakes and clutch and it had no effect what so ever. Used Kawasaki brake fluid.

This system may be great for most but I hate it, we will never like each other. I know how to stop a motorcycle and do not need the ECU helping me. I read about complaints on this model before buying but thought to myself how bad can it be, well it is terrible for me. In fact if I had rode it before buying it I would not have bought it based on the brakes. It was pouring rain that day and I just loaded it up and took it home. I like this motorcycle, it has so much good until I grab the brake lever or brake pedal then I'm like what the hell :o I'm fighting electronic braking >:(


 I feel the same .  I will be doing the cross over line to un-link my brakes soon.

Offline angelo

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Re: Linked brakes,,
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2017, 01:21:47 am »
SO the bike has always been what it is.  The weight has always been big for fast, tight sport riding.  To me, IMO, the switch to linked brakes was a small step more towards the touring side and a bit further away from the sport side.  Small step - sure - but still a step. 

I understand the the post 10's are a little cooler.  For MY riding (at least when my wife is not on the back) my 08 ABS is the appropriate bike.  I'll take the extra heat because I don't notice it too often at all.  Obtrusive linked brakes would effect my enjoyment of nearly any solo ride. 

I have not ridden the new version - so that point may be moot.  In my world though, keeping the 08 with 40K on it forever as a 2 up bike and getting a smaller second for sport riding is more likely than trading this one in on a '15 and newer.  But who knows how the future will go....