Author Topic: Molly?  (Read 1094 times)

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Offline antibus

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Molly?
« on: January 19, 2018, 11:55:42 pm »
Re-installing my camshafts and I noticed the manual calls for molybdenum disulfide oil to cam surfaces and journal portions. Last valve inspection I did not do this although it is called for on my other motorcycle and don't know why I omitted it. I have molybdenum disulfide paste (MP-50) and wondered if that will work. I have never heard of molybdenum disulfide oil and wonder if the terms are used interchangeably. Any answers appreciated.
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Offline gPink

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Re: Molly?
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2018, 12:03:29 am »
You're looking for assembly lube.

Offline antibus

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Re: Molly?
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2018, 12:15:24 am »
Do you think the molybdenum disulfide paste (MP-50) I have will work?
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Offline gPink

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Re: Molly?
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2018, 12:49:49 am »
I'm not an expert but I would think paste is not what you want in this case.

Offline C. Moore

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Re: Molly?
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2018, 10:39:09 am »
When I did my valves I dripped some Mobil 1 on the Cams just prior to reinstall. I was following Fred's videos. I would not use any kind of paste on the Cams at this stage of reassembly.
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Offline 4Bikes

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Re: Molly?
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2018, 11:31:49 am »
When I did my valves I dripped some Mobil 1 on the Cams just prior to reinstall. I was following Fred's videos. I would not use any kind of paste on the Cams at this stage of reassembly.
Agreed. You are reassembling parts that are broken in, and those surfaces like and survive on motor oil. I just coated all of the bearing surfaces with motor oil. No issues.
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Offline jwh20

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Re: Molly?
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2018, 04:55:30 pm »
Don't use moly paste or grease as this can clog up oil passages or your oil filter.  Use a moly-containing assembly oil which will mix in with the engine oil.  There are many products on the market but I've been using this:

https://lucasoil.com/products/problem-solvers-utility/semi-synthetic-assembly-lube

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Offline lather

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Re: Molly?
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2018, 06:15:23 pm »
I'd just follow Fred's advise and slather a bunch of 10W40 over all the bearing surfaces. I did this on my first two valve adjustments and never a problem. On the last valve adjustment I went to a local dealer (Yamaha and Kawasaki) and looked for the recoomended stuff with no luck. Broght the closest thing on the self to the parts cashier and asked if this would work for camshaft reassemby. She said go ask the service department ad the said they use a Honda assembly lube product and I bough their last tube for like 18 friggin bucks. 500 miles later my valve train self destructed >:(

Can't really believe the Honda assemby lube was the culprit but I'll never use it again and will stick with plain old 10w40.


Offline JPD

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Re: Molly?
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2018, 09:50:30 pm »
Years ago you had to use STP on light aircraft engine lifters as an assembly lube. it was to prevent wear on the cam lobes to lifter contact surface. Have you ever tried to hold a common screwdriver by the tip after it is dipped in STP. It can't be done.

Offline 4Bikes

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Re: Molly?
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2018, 10:41:24 pm »
I used to add STP to my ‘73 318 Dodge Dart after an oil change. It was a Richard Petty thing to do. Do they still sell it?
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Re: Molly?
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2018, 01:17:06 pm »
I used to add STP to my ‘73 318 Dodge Dart after an oil change. It was a Richard Petty thing to do. Do they still sell it?
Wouldn't the use of full synthetic motor oils eliminate the need for oil additives?

PG

Offline oldnslo_MO

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Re: Molly?
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2018, 03:18:29 pm »
I'd just follow Fred's advise and slather a bunch of 10W40 over all the bearing surfaces. I did this on my first two valve adjustments and never a problem. On the last valve adjustment I went to a local dealer (Yamaha and Kawasaki) and looked for the recoomended stuff with no luck. Broght the closest thing on the self to the parts cashier and asked if this would work for camshaft reassemby. She said go ask the service department ad the said they use a Honda assembly lube product and I bough their last tube for like 18 friggin bucks. 500 miles later my valve train self destructed >:(

Can't really believe the Honda assemby lube was the culprit but I'll never use it again and will stick with plain old 10w40.
what exactly failed in the valve train? :??:
happy trails  2016 concours14,2010 bmw k1300ggt, 2015 bmw r1200rt, 09 concours14, 75 kawasaki H1   500cc*79 triumph bonneville750* 2 each  82su zuki gs1100e* 05 yamaha fz1 1100* 03 yamaha fz1 1100*01 goldwing 1800*97 goldwing 1500* 93 goldwing 1500* 80 kawasaki vulcan 1500*76 kawasaki kz650* 66 triumph Bonneville 650* 68 triumph tr 650* 72 norton commando750* 70 bsa rocket III 750*  68 hon cb350* 66 hon cb305*1960 BSA golden flash 500cc*1950 cushman

Offline antibus

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Re: Molly?
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2018, 07:47:21 pm »
I'd just follow Fred's advise and slather a bunch of 10W40 over all the bearing surfaces. I did this on my first two valve adjustments and never a problem. On the last valve adjustment I went to a local dealer (Yamaha and Kawasaki) and looked for the recoomended stuff with no luck. Broght the closest thing on the self to the parts cashier and asked if this would work for camshaft reassemby. She said go ask the service department ad the said they use a Honda assembly lube product and I bough their last tube for like 18 friggin bucks. 500 miles later my valve train self destructed >:(

Can't really believe the Honda assemby lube was the culprit but I'll never use it again and will stick with plain old 10w40.


That sounds awful! Do you know more specifically what happened?
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Offline 4Bikes

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Re: Molly?
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2018, 08:13:44 pm »
Here is the thread. Lather had a misfortune, explained it well, but it took a while to diagnose.  So you may want to skip to the end of the thread.

http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-14-zg1400-general-chat-and-tech/died-and-won't-start/
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Re: Molly?
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2018, 11:30:09 pm »
Wow! Thanks for the link 4Bikes. Misfortune is an understatement, although every ride I walk away from is a good one even if expensive.
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Offline Old Man on a Connie

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Re: Molly?
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2018, 12:15:27 am »
FWIW and I am no expert. When I use new parts I use assembly lube (CB750K powroll big bore kit and norris cam, new top end XR600, new bottom end husky 610). When I reassemble with parts already broken in (last valve adjust on the C14, several car engines) I use motor oil in a squirt can. No failures so far knock on plastic.
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Offline Roger B

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Re: Molly?
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2018, 01:42:55 pm »
Yea when I did my valve adjustment I just lubed everything with Rotella T6, the oil I run.   I had a tube of full synthetic assembly lube on the shelf, but didn't use it.  I felt it was similar to an oil change, as long as I had residual lube on the cams so nothing was dry. 

Offline oldnslo_MO

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Re: Molly?
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2018, 01:38:25 pm »
I'd just follow Fred's advise and slather a bunch of 10W40 over all the bearing surfaces. I did this on my first two valve adjustments and never a problem. On the last valve adjustment I went to a local dealer (Yamaha and Kawasaki) and looked for the recoomended stuff with no luck. Broght the closest thing on the self to the parts cashier and asked if this would work for camshaft reassemby. She said go ask the service department ad the said they use a Honda assembly lube product and I bough their last tube for like 18 friggin bucks. 500 miles later my valve train self destructed >:(

Can't really believe the Honda assemby lube was the culprit but I'll never use it again and will stick with plain old 10w40.
out of pure curiosity, what torque value did you tighten the bolts that failed? :??:
happy trails  2016 concours14,2010 bmw k1300ggt, 2015 bmw r1200rt, 09 concours14, 75 kawasaki H1   500cc*79 triumph bonneville750* 2 each  82su zuki gs1100e* 05 yamaha fz1 1100* 03 yamaha fz1 1100*01 goldwing 1800*97 goldwing 1500* 93 goldwing 1500* 80 kawasaki vulcan 1500*76 kawasaki kz650* 66 triumph Bonneville 650* 68 triumph tr 650* 72 norton commando750* 70 bsa rocket III 750*  68 hon cb350* 66 hon cb305*1960 BSA golden flash 500cc*1950 cushman

Offline 4Bikes

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Re: Molly?
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2018, 02:06:35 pm »
I think I can answer for Lather since this was covered.  The bolts that sheared off on the Cam gear were never removed, so they were never tightened. 
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Offline oldnslo_MO

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Re: Molly?
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2018, 08:50:53 pm »
i missed that..thx... :-[
happy trails  2016 concours14,2010 bmw k1300ggt, 2015 bmw r1200rt, 09 concours14, 75 kawasaki H1   500cc*79 triumph bonneville750* 2 each  82su zuki gs1100e* 05 yamaha fz1 1100* 03 yamaha fz1 1100*01 goldwing 1800*97 goldwing 1500* 93 goldwing 1500* 80 kawasaki vulcan 1500*76 kawasaki kz650* 66 triumph Bonneville 650* 68 triumph tr 650* 72 norton commando750* 70 bsa rocket III 750*  68 hon cb350* 66 hon cb305*1960 BSA golden flash 500cc*1950 cushman

Offline lather

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Re: Molly?
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2018, 03:08:03 pm »
I think I can answer for Lather since this was covered.  The bolts that sheared off on the Cam gear were never removed, so they were never tightened.
Thanks for correctly answering that for me. To remove the cam for shim replacement you remove the cam chain tensioner and slip the chain over the sprocket so the sprocket bolts were never touched by me. The valve gear failure is still a mystery. Two ex valves were dropped and two were bent. Dont know if the bent valves caused the sheared sprocket bolts or the  loose sprocket caused the valve damage. I suspect a failed tensioner because it fell apart while I was re-installing it I may have failed to properly re-assembe it before I re-installed it or maybe it was defective from the start and the timing  (no pun intended) was coincidental.

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Re: Molly?
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2018, 12:19:36 am »
I think I can answer for Lather since this was covered.  The bolts that sheared off on the Cam gear were never removed, so they were never tightened.
Thanks for correctly answering that for me. To remove the cam for shim replacement you remove the cam chain tensioner and slip the chain over the sprocket so the sprocket bolts were never touched by me. The valve gear failure is still a mystery. Two ex valves were dropped and two were bent. Dont know if the bent valves caused the sheared sprocket bolts or the  loose sprocket caused the valve damage. I suspect a failed tensioner because it fell apart while I was re-installing it I may have failed to properly re-assembe it before I re-installed it or maybe it was defective from the start and the timing  (no pun intended) was coincidental.
I was wondering where you ended up with that.
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Offline antibus

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Re: Molly?
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2018, 07:37:18 pm »
Thank you everyone for your help. I followed Fred's advice in his videos like I did last time as it worked last time. 4bikes, your camshaft explosion sounds awful and that must have sucked!
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Re: Molly?
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2018, 09:39:32 pm »
Thank you everyone for your help. I followed Fred's advice in his videos like I did last time as it worked last time. 4bikes, your camshaft explosion sounds awful and that must have sucked!
Was me that had the cam and valve failure on my 09 and yes it sucked but it wasn't spectacular at all. I was just accelerating an the engine died. It was rather dull compared to the demise of my 08.

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Re: Molly?
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2018, 09:55:56 pm »
4bikes explosion?  Yikes.  :-\  I certainly hope not! :-\
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