Author Topic: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing! I'm a chucklehead!  (Read 3487 times)

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Offline Bilbur

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2017, 10:05:35 pm »
In reading my service manual, it says :


" do not reverse the battery cable connections.  this will burn out the diodes on the electrical parts "

Does the service manual happen to state which 'electrical parts' could get affected?

Offline JTX

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2017, 10:06:22 pm »
In reading my service manual, it says :


" do not reverse the battery cable connections.  this will burn out the diodes on the electrical parts "

Does the service manual happen to state which 'electrical parts' could get affected?


No.....

Offline Rbourque77

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2017, 10:06:36 pm »
Yes. Try to bypass the KIPASS lock by holding the fob next to the KIPASS knob. If we can at least get the knob to turn to 'on' we can have a much better idea about what happened during the reverse polarity problem.

Yes, I did try that.  One of the first things I tried, i know that trick from the FOB batteries dying on me.
It would not turn the stove knob.
Bob

Offline Bilbur

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #28 on: April 17, 2017, 10:09:50 pm »
I hate to say it but, you may have a fried KIPASS ecu. It's the only thing I can point to right now since the KIPASS system is basically non-operational and you still have power in the battery.

Offline JTX

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #29 on: April 17, 2017, 10:19:29 pm »
Something is fried thats for dam sure.


You can hope its ONLY the kipass......

Offline Landon

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #30 on: April 17, 2017, 10:38:34 pm »
This isn't my bike and it makes me feel sick to my stomach
Landon
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Offline Rbourque77

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #31 on: April 17, 2017, 10:46:19 pm »
This isn't my bike and it makes me feel sick to my stomach
LOL. I find your empathy soothing 😀
Bob

Offline Landon

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #32 on: April 17, 2017, 10:52:38 pm »
This isn't my bike and it makes me feel sick to my stomach
LOL. I find your empathy soothing 😀

I can't imagine. I've got a nice replacement one for sale. Might make sense in the long run. Salvage the electronics you need and part out the rest.
Landon
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Offline jwh20

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #33 on: April 18, 2017, 12:52:23 am »
Again, please check with your insurance agent.  You might be covered here.  Trading in might seem like a good idea but I'm sure it will cost you.  All the modules that may be damaged are pretty easy to swap out.  Again, I think a viable plan for repairing this bike would be to find a wrecked one of the same year and swap out the modules.
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Offline Harry Martin

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #34 on: April 18, 2017, 11:19:42 pm »
Can anyone find a schematic and locate them diodes? Maybe they just fused.

I have been in situations where the radio/CB/device power diode fused when the power leads were reversed, frying the main diode.
After replacing the diode, the rest worked fine. I would lean in that direction first.

Jeeze...what a problem.  :(
Harry in Wild and Windy Casper, WY - 1986 Vintage "Silverdammit" - 2015 "Greendammit"

Offline Mad River Marc

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2017, 12:31:30 am »
Before you all start going insane and believing that the bike is deaddes..,  Let's do some further diag...

First off, grab yourself a wiring diagram

http://www.cog-online.org/clubportal/clubdocs/1328/C14_2010_Wire_Diag.pdf

1)  See if you have 12v at the Starter main lead,  that will tell you if the main 30amp fuse is good.
2) On the main positive lead, trace it back to where the 30 amp main system fuse is there should be 3 wires coming out of the 30Amp main fuse in addition to the thick wire going to the starter, a yellow/red, a Black/Yellow and a white,  verify that you have 12v on all 3 of these wires.
3) Check at the Kipass Relay and see if there is a constant 12v (I forget if it's the Red or the Blue wire)

If that all is good we can continue with further troubleshooting (but my eyes are killing me reading this on the screen, I need to print ot the wiring diagrams so we can go further basically what we are doing is following the power back from the battery to all the proper modules to see if THEY have power.   After that we do the SAME checking the grounds (Since you sparked to ground it could have popped a ground wire)

If we verify that ALL power/grounds are good, and we try to manually trip the kipass wake up...then we can start looking at modules etc....

You only need two tools in life – WD-40 and duct tape. If it doesn’t move and should, use the WD-40. If it shouldn’t move and does, use the duct tape.

Offline jwh20

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #36 on: April 19, 2017, 11:06:53 am »
Can anyone find a schematic and locate them diodes? Maybe they just fused.

I have been in situations where the radio/CB/device power diode fused when the power leads were reversed, frying the main diode.
After replacing the diode, the rest worked fine. I would lean in that direction first.

Jeeze...what a problem.  :(

Here is what the inside of a KiPass ECU looks like.  The damaged part(s) could be anywhere and even if you identified them, it could be impossible to locate a replacement.  Kawasaki (or Mitsubishi, the manufacturer) does not publish an schematics for these things:



The KiPass ECU is pretty easy to open up.  It just has a glued-on lid.  The FI ECU is a bit tougher, it's potted so you'll essentially destroy it getting the circuit board out which is the plan I suspect.
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Offline Rbourque77

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2017, 11:20:48 am »
The diodes should have a "D" or a "CR" designator next to them.  There also may be a bunch of components on the bottom side of the pc board.  You would think the diodes in question were placed close to the incoming power connector.

Sometimes there are little tiny markings on the diodes that should tell you what kind they are.
Bob

Offline dan4aspen

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #38 on: April 19, 2017, 11:47:54 am »
2 years ago, while my wife was 300 miles away, the battery died on a -3 degree day.  A neighbor where she was reversed the jumper cables and fried the battery, causing it to burnt up 3 sets of jumper cables, literally melted them.  Drove to van dreading the worst with all electronics.  Put a new battery in, and was good to go.  Keep It Simple. Start with replacing battery with another new one, as the one in bike is probably fried like mine was. Then go from there and start diagnosing.  Just my 2 cents worth.  You are welcome to give a refund.  Good luck!
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Offline Harry Martin

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #39 on: April 19, 2017, 12:35:30 pm »
The diodes should have a "D" or a "CR" designator next to them.  There also may be a bunch of components on the bottom side of the pc board.  You would think the diodes in question were placed close to the incoming power connector.

Sometimes there are little tiny markings on the diodes that should tell you what kind they are.

I see several diodes in there, but I would need to see it up close. I use to repair circuit boards and yes it's a difficult thing to trace out and it takes time.
I would still want to troubleshoot the rest of the system before going into the ECU.
Harry in Wild and Windy Casper, WY - 1986 Vintage "Silverdammit" - 2015 "Greendammit"

Offline jwh20

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #40 on: April 19, 2017, 12:42:22 pm »
I can get you a photo of the back side of the PCB also.  It has more components than the front.  All SMD.

But again this is only ONE of the multiple electronic boxes in the bike that could be damaged.  I only singled out the KiPass ECU because it's central to the initial turn-on of the bike.  If it's out, nothing is going to happen.
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Offline Mad River Marc

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #41 on: April 19, 2017, 12:44:22 pm »
As I said,
Before we go tearing into modules, let's verify power and ground and wakeup signals AT the modules....

Methodical troubleshooting folks :)
You only need two tools in life – WD-40 and duct tape. If it doesn’t move and should, use the WD-40. If it shouldn’t move and does, use the duct tape.

Offline Harry Martin

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #42 on: April 19, 2017, 12:53:51 pm »
As I said,
Before we go tearing into modules, let's verify power and ground and wakeup signals AT the modules....

Methodical troubleshooting folks :)

+1
Harry in Wild and Windy Casper, WY - 1986 Vintage "Silverdammit" - 2015 "Greendammit"

Offline Bilbur

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #43 on: April 19, 2017, 05:17:27 pm »
This may or may not have anything to do with your issue but,

I was looking through some of the older threads on my phone yesterday and now I can't find the thread that I found....which is frustrating because I can't make up this story.

Another member had a very similar issue to yours. The battery polarity issue wasn't part of the story but, everything else was.

Basically this guy went on a ride with a buddy, stopped for lunch and when he came back out his bike was doing exactly what your bike is doing. Press the kitchen knob and nothing.

He tried everything. Replaced the battery in the fob, tried the back FOB, tried jumping the bike, etc etc. He finally had the bike towed to a dealer for diagnosing.

The tech at the dealer called Kawasaki service help and the suggestion given, and I'm not even kidding, "take a hammer and smack the ignition around the kipass knob"

Sure as everything, it worked. The tech tapped around the kitchen knob a few times and pressed the kitchen knob to activate the kipass system and it worked.

Apparently the release spring inside the kipass system wasn't doing its job and thus wasn't allowing the system to activate. That's how it was explained in the other thread.

The guy had a new spring put in to fix the problem and hasn't had an issue since.

Like I said, I have no clue if this is your problem but, to me, it's worth a shot.

Offline Rbourque77

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #44 on: April 19, 2017, 05:24:17 pm »
Thanks Nighthawk!  I remember seeing that thread.  I have not tried that.  I'll try a rubber mallet first and work up to a hammer...  ;)
Bob

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #45 on: April 19, 2017, 07:13:02 pm »
Thanks Nighthawk!  I remember seeing that thread.  I have not tried that.  I'll try a rubber mallet first and work up to a hammer...  ;)

 :rotflmao:
Do a quick search for "K-Rock", the origen was an on road tool to emulate that mallet blow, it consisted of a fist sized rock, used to bash the stove knob a couple times to coax that internal switch spring to release the switch actuation plunger, so it could reset...
Many people have done it...
You can also firmly press the knob down, and slide you fingers off it fast, so it slams upwards a few times, repeat it and you may hear it click...

I don't think the diodes in that relay box should befome damaged, as they are directly protected by the 30 a main fuse, behind the batt, at the main relay...
If any diodes took a hit at all, they would be the ones in the regulator/rectifier, the metal case that sits up uñder the bike, in front of the rear tire...and that box is ealed and non servicable... might try a plug and play from someone you know, or trouble sshoot it as Directed in the FSM

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Offline Joe

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #46 on: April 19, 2017, 08:00:22 pm »

I don't think the diodes in that relay box should befome damaged, as they are directly protected by the 30 a main fuse, behind the batt, at the main relay...
If any diodes took a hit at all, they would be the ones in the regulator/rectifier, the metal case that sits up uñder the bike, in front of the rear tire...and that box is ealed and non servicable... might try a plug and play from someone you know, or trouble sshoot it as Directed in the FSM

The 30 amp fuse will not protect against reverse polarity - the diodes will fry because the positive voltage went the wrong direction, could take way less that 30 amps to fry those diodes.

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #47 on: April 19, 2017, 08:46:56 pm »

I don't think the diodes in that relay box should befome damaged, as they are directly protected by the 30 a main fuse, behind the batt, at the main relay...
If any diodes took a hit at all, they would be the ones in the regulator/rectifier, the metal case that sits up uñder the bike, in front of the rear tire...and that box is ealed and non servicable... might try a plug and play from someone you know, or trouble sshoot it as Directed in the FSM

The 30 amp fuse will not protect against reverse polarity - the diodes will fry because the positive voltage went the wrong direction, could take way less that 30 amps to fry those diodes.

I'm not willing to start an argument, so you may be correct... but unless you have consulted the wiring diagram on the bike as I have been doing currently,
I will verify my statements further, by adding this;
The o/p found his error in wiring prior to attempting to start the bike, and corrected the wiring.
Unless the "run" switch was on, and the kipass stoveknob switch was activated, and followed by hitting the starter button, the diodes in the relay box were not actively "working / seeing current" in the circuits at the time, and would not have seen the spike.

This bike has a very robust electrical system, with numerous protection stages, which have been documented over the last 10 years by peoples reports of mis wiring things, having acid leaks that destroyed the main fuse and relay, creating meltdowns in wires, and various others "oops" scenarios..

I'm personally hedging on something fairly simple, and hopefully inexpensive as the "real" cause for it not starting now.



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Offline Gixerhp

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #48 on: April 20, 2017, 12:37:36 am »
Where in MA are you located?
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Offline Rbourque77

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #49 on: April 20, 2017, 01:23:51 pm »
Where in MA are you located?

PM sent...
Bob