Author Topic: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing! I'm a chucklehead!  (Read 3509 times)

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Offline Rbourque77

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My Connie died! Need help diagnosing! I'm a chucklehead!
« on: April 15, 2017, 10:42:47 pm »
I replaced my battery this morning with a "ready to go" battery from AutoZone.  I checked the battery, it was 12.5 volts out of the box.  Life was good back then at that moment.

In my impetuousness to get on the bike and go riding, I did something stupid and somehow touched the positive (+) side of the new battery to the frame (-) of my bike.  It got a little sparky. "Jeez!", I said and I promised to myself I would not do that again, either on purpose or by mistake.

I continued to hook up the battery and tried to turn on the power to the bike via the normal means of the KiPASS system.  Dead as a door nail!  Nothing!  The KiPass would not switch to the "ON" position.  "Huh?", I took the key out of the FOB and put it to the thing to see if that would turn it to the "ON" position, again nothing!

I checked all the fuses, by means of the eyeball method, pulling each one out.  They all looked good. 

My big fear is that I cooked something when I shorted the positive and negative.

Does anyone have any thoughts on getting my reliable and trusty steed back in business with out replacing the electronics?

« Last Edit: April 23, 2017, 03:17:12 pm by Rbourque77 »
Bob

Offline jwh20

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Re: My bleloved Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2017, 10:55:16 pm »
If the + terminal only touched the frame, you should be OK electronics-wise.  The first thing that comes to mind is that you damaged your battery or one of the battery cables.  I'm not sure if the C14 has one but many + battery cables have a "fusible link" built in to protect against fire or total meltdown in the event of a short circuit.  I suggest that you:

1) Check the battery voltage now and under load.  Take it to a shop and have them load test it.  If damaged, replace it.  There is no fixing a messed up battery.

2) Get your Multi-meter out and check the resistance of the + and - cables without being connected to the battery.  Should read close to 0 Ohms.  If you get a high value or "infinity" then it's damaged and needs to be replaced.

3) While you're at it, check the fuses with the meter.  You can't always tell by looking at them.

Also, check the GROUND connection at the frame.  If it was iffy before the short might have "zapped" it and now it's not conducting.  Do the usual, disconnect it and clean it with some sandpaper.  I like to put a thin layer of dielectric grease or just axle grease on the surface to inhibit further corrosion.
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Offline gPink

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Re: My bleloved Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2017, 11:32:02 pm »
Main fuse behind the battery box?

Offline Jorge

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Re: My bleloved Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2017, 12:24:21 am »
One question: Was the positive battery cable already connected to the battery when the spark was generated?
If yes, then there is a chance the some high voltage spokes were injected into the electrical system. Sparks carry very high voltage, and almost anything could have happened if the positive battery cable was already connected.
If the positive battery cable was not in contact with the battery positive terminal, then pretty unlikely.
I agree with other tips.
hope it's minor.

Offline mattchewn

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Re: My beloved Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2017, 02:16:43 pm »
You say you checked all the fuses, does this include the 30amp main fuse in the battery compartment?
Matt
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Offline Rbourque77

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Re: My beloved Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2017, 11:10:06 am »
Well, I checked the main fuse (30A) with my meter and that was good.  Even though the battery still checks in at 12.5V I'm going to get a load test on it as suggested by jwh20.  I was hoping it was the fuse, but oh well, I'll keep plugging.
Bob

Offline Bilbur

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2017, 04:25:29 pm »
Try to isolate the power loss.

Even with the bike 'off' there should be evidence that power is being distributed through the bike. Switches, power ports, something.

I am little confused by your description of how the initial spark happened. Correct me if I'm wrong but, you touched the actual battery terminal to a ground spot on the bike and that's what caused the spark, right?


Offline Rbourque77

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2017, 04:34:25 pm »
I am little confused by your description of how the initial spark happened. Correct me if I'm wrong but, you touched the actual battery terminal to a ground spot on the bike and that's what caused the spark, right?

The NEW battery had the + and - on the opposite sides compared to the stock old battery.  I foolishly hooked up the ground battery lead to the positive post of the battery.  I then tried to attach that cable to the ground on the frame - that is when the sparks flew. 

There is absolutely no evidence of any power on the bike right now.  I walked away from my stupidity and will look at it again tonight when I get home from work.
Bob

Offline Bilbur

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2017, 04:37:03 pm »
Ah, ok. Now I understand.

It's very possible that fried a cell in the battery. What's the resting voltage on the battery now? I know you said it was 12.5 out of the box but, did you check the voltage after the spark incident?

Essentially what you did based on your latest description is connect the positive to the negative together on the battery. Kind of like putting a wrench on a battery and having the wrench touch the pos and neg terminals creating a fun spark show. Car batteries can handle that type of thing since most car batteries are still acid based. But, since most motorcycle batteries are gel pack batteries its very possible that you fried out a complete cell or two inside the battery.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2017, 04:42:55 pm by Nighthawk »

Offline Rbourque77

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2017, 04:40:14 pm »
It's very possible that fried a cell in the battery. What's the resting voltage on the battery now? I know you said it was 12.5 out of the box but, did you check the voltage after the spark incident?

I'll have to check that Nighthawk!  Thanks!
Bob

Offline jwh20

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2017, 04:45:28 pm »
I am little confused by your description of how the initial spark happened. Correct me if I'm wrong but, you touched the actual battery terminal to a ground spot on the bike and that's what caused the spark, right?

The NEW battery had the + and - on the opposite sides compared to the stock old battery.  I foolishly hooked up the ground battery lead to the positive post of the battery.  I then tried to attach that cable to the ground on the frame - that is when the sparks flew. 

There is absolutely no evidence of any power on the bike right now.  I walked away from my stupidity and will look at it again tonight when I get home from work.

Ok, that is a VERY different problem from what you described earlier.  Nobody here is going to call you names for doing this, we've all done similar stuff at one point or another!  But it's really tough to help out with incomplete or inaccurate information.

In this case, however, I suspect that there is at least one and perhaps multiple failed electronic modules on the bike.  Chances are good that the only way to repair the bike is to replace them.  I suspect that you have damaged:

1) The KiPass ECU with is centrally involved with turning the bike ON and enabling all the other electronic components on the bike.
2) The FI ECU that runs the engine and the fuel injectors.
3) The ABS module - if your bike is so equipped.
4) The instrument panel.
5) The steering lock module.

You might be lucky and it's just a couple of these but I'm pretty sure the KiPass ECU is out of action at this point since the bike will not turn on at all.  But check all your wiring and fuses first as you might be VERY lucky and one of the fuses or one of the wires gave its life for the rest of your bike.

Good luck!  This is a nasty problem!
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Offline Rbourque77

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2017, 05:12:50 pm »
I am little confused by your description of how the initial spark happened. Correct me if I'm wrong but, you touched the actual battery terminal to a ground spot on the bike and that's what caused the spark, right?

The NEW battery had the + and - on the opposite sides compared to the stock old battery.  I foolishly hooked up the ground battery lead to the positive post of the battery.  I then tried to attach that cable to the ground on the frame - that is when the sparks flew. 

There is absolutely no evidence of any power on the bike right now.  I walked away from my stupidity and will look at it again tonight when I get home from work.

Ok, that is a VERY different problem from what you described earlier.  Nobody here is going to call you names for doing this, we've all done similar stuff at one point or another!  But it's really tough to help out with incomplete or inaccurate information.

In this case, however, I suspect that there is at least one and perhaps multiple failed electronic modules on the bike.  Chances are good that the only way to repair the bike is to replace them.  I suspect that you have damaged:

1) The KiPass ECU with is centrally involved with turning the bike ON and enabling all the other electronic components on the bike.
2) The FI ECU that runs the engine and the fuel injectors.
3) The ABS module - if your bike is so equipped.
4) The instrument panel.
5) The steering lock module.

You might be lucky and it's just a couple of these but I'm pretty sure the KiPass ECU is out of action at this point since the bike will not turn on at all.  But check all your wiring and fuses first as you might be VERY lucky and one of the fuses or one of the wires gave its life for the rest of your bike.

Good luck!  This is a nasty problem!

DANG!!  Not happy!  Thanks for listing it out for me...
Bob

Offline jwh20

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2017, 05:36:40 pm »
First off, check and double check the wiring.  If power is getting TO these modules but they are not coming on, then the modules are likely toasted.

What year is your bike?  Your best bet might be to find a wrecked one and scavenge all the needed electronics from it.  Keep in mind that if you need to replace the KiPass ECU that you will need at least one operational FOB from the wreck.  Those "Crashed Toys" bikes or EBAY KiPass ECUs don't always have a FOB included and this ECU is among the more expensive items.

You might also discuss this with your insurance agent.  It might be covered.
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Offline Bilbur

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2017, 07:06:57 pm »
As jwh20 said, find power somewhere.

If the battery is still resting around 12.5 volts then you have to figure out where the power stops. If power is getting TO the KIPASS ecu then you have your problem pretty plain as day. If power isn't getting to the KIPASS ecu then you just have to keep searching until you find out where the power starts and ends.

Even if that means no power is coming from the battery at all.

It would have to take a pretty substantial surge event to completely fry an ecu. A spark show, like you had, could do it but, I've got my fingers crossed that you just cooked a couple cells in the battery and the battery is a dead plastic box now.

Offline JTX

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2017, 08:40:50 pm »
Do you still have the other battery to try putting that back in ?

Offline jwh20

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2017, 09:05:50 pm »
It would have to take a pretty substantial surge event to completely fry an ecu. A spark show, like you had, could do it but, I've got my fingers crossed that you just cooked a couple cells in the battery and the battery is a dead plastic box now.

In this case it's not a surge but a reverse polarity.  Most electronics in these applications are pretty well protected against surges but not against reverse polarity.  A braniac husband of my niece hooked up jumper cables to my mother's mini-van backwards a few years ago and fried every electronic component in the vehicle.  It was a MESS!  In this case, however, her insurance covered most of the $7500 repair bill.  That's why I suggested the OP check with his insurance.  It might just be a covered incident.
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Offline Rbourque77

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2017, 09:16:10 pm »
Do you still have the other battery to try putting that back in ?

I gave it to AutoZone for the $10.00 core charge.  I'm going there tonight and see if they still have it around.
Bob

Offline JTX

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2017, 09:17:43 pm »
Do you still have the other battery to try putting that back in ?

I gave it to AutoZone for the $10.00 core charge.  I'm going there tonight and see if they still have it around.


they're prob not gonna give it back.


may be worth the time to get another new one and try it, to see if the battery you got is shorted out.  Maybe they'll accept a return.

Offline Rbourque77

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2017, 09:42:29 pm »
I tried jumping the bike with a good battery, and everything is still dead on the bike.

I'm at a loss as what to do next.  My dear sweet wife said just drop it off at the local Kawi dealer and trade it in and get a new Connie!  Unfortunately, or fortunately (depending on how you look at it) I'm slightly more frugal and fiscally wiser than her - but I certainly heard her out and did not interrupt her when she talked about a new getting a new Concours.

Even being a printed circuit board designer by trade, chasing down this issue seems a bit daunting for me.  But it seems the most economical thing to do. 
Bob

Offline JTX

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2017, 09:44:24 pm »
I tried jumping the bike with a good battery, and everything is still dead on the bike.

I'm at a loss as what to do next.  My dear sweet wife said just drop it off at the local Kawi dealer and trade it in and get a new Connie!  Unfortunately, or fortunately (depending on how you look at it) I'm slightly more frugal and fiscally wiser than her - but I certainly heard her out and did not interrupt her when she talked about a new getting a new Concours.

Even being a printed circuit board designer by trade, chasing down this issue seems a bit daunting for me.  But it seems the most economical thing to do.




Yeah not a good sign.  I think you broke it.....




Did you try a meter from the positive side to ground ?




Offline Rbourque77

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2017, 09:54:36 pm »
Did you try a meter from the positive side to ground ?

Yes, positive side of the battery to chassis gnd was the obligatory 12.5V
Bob

Offline JTX

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2017, 09:56:08 pm »
Did you try a meter from the positive side to ground ?

Yes, positive side of the battery to chassis gnd was the obligatory 12.5V




That's good !




Did you try the emergency key, NOT The big fob?  The little square one?






Offline Bilbur

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2017, 10:00:13 pm »
Yes. Try to bypass the KIPASS lock by holding the fob next to the KIPASS knob. If we can at least get the knob to turn to 'on' we can have a much better idea about what happened during the reverse polarity problem.

Offline JTX

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2017, 10:01:48 pm »
In reading my service manual, it says :


" do not reverse the battery cable connections.  this will burn out the diodes on the electrical parts "

Offline Rbourque77

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Re: My Connie died! Need help diagnosing!
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2017, 10:03:31 pm »

That's good !

Did you try the emergency key, NOT The big fob?  The little square one?

The 12V from the positive side of the bat to chassis gnd, in my mind - only tells me that the bat is pushing out 12V.

Bob