Author Topic: Performance updgrade  (Read 2158 times)

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Offline Grant

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Re: Performance updgrade
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2018, 03:26:45 pm »
Quote
The one thing that took some getting used to is what I feel to be a huge lack of engine braking compared to what it had before the flash. I now run 1 or 2 gears lower in the big hills if I want to stay off the brakes.
Could you elaborate a bit more on the subject of engine braking?
Do you feel less engine breaking in gear higher than 2nd-3rd or ...?
I want to get better mileage but I hate losing engine braking. I use engine braking  extensively in both my bike and my car.
That is why I haven't committed to SISF ECU reprogramming.


Cheers...
If you really like the engine braking you would love SISF Mountain Rider flash, the stock Kawasaki tune doesn't provide much in the way of engine braking.
If you look back on the post you are asking about you should note the poster is comparing Steve's Mountain Rider to Steve's Area P not the stock Kawasaki flash.
The trick in picking a tuner and what tune of that particular tuner you want starts with being honest with one's self and understanding one's own personal writing style.
If you think the tuning debate and choice of tunes is tough with your Connie you should try the diesel World particularly the Duramax and EFI live tuning the number of guys providing tuning is almost endless and the debate on who's best is literally a war with thousands of battlefronts LOL
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Offline Deepsea

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Re: Performance updgrade
« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2018, 06:25:27 pm »
 
"The one thing that took some getting used to is what I feel to be a huge lack of engine braking compared to what it had before the flash. I now run 1 or 2 gears lower in the big hills if I want to stay off the brakes."

I don't understand your perception of "Lack of engine braking". I have a full Area P system and the MR flash. Before moving to Germany I typically spent 2 or 3 days every week riding the Sierra foothills with a group of guys all on S1000's and Aprilla's. I also spent numerous days at both Thunderhill and Sears Point doing track days. The engine braking imho is excellent. The C14 with the Shoodaben Arear P Mountain Runner flash is the smoothest and most controllable bike in this power range I've ever ridden. It does what I want when I want and does it with finesse. Oh, those guys on the S1000's never could leave me behind no matter how hard they tried.


This is how far it can lean in the corners.
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Offline Rexter

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Re: Performance updgrade
« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2018, 07:31:08 pm »
Original. It was done last summer.
ETA: his site shows mountain runner is for stock headpipe and slip-on, not a full exhaust.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2018, 07:34:16 pm by Rexter »

Offline Rexter

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Re: Performance updgrade
« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2018, 07:39:56 pm »
I hope nobody takes my comments as a slight on Steve’s tune. I knew full-well what I was getting, and I’m very happy with it. I forgot to mention that the flies are out on mine. The flash recommends running them for low end, but I personally don’t feel I need them since I don’t have a comparison to judge by. Looking at Steve’s description, it mentions choosing the decel quality for the AP flash. Maybe I’ll check with him on that.

Offline Colt45

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Re: Performance updgrade
« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2018, 11:03:15 pm »
I'm sure this question has been asked and answered many times on this site but some of the threads I've located have been older ones and I wanted to get the most updated suggestions. I have a 2013 14 and have done about all of the external mods I'm going to (Baldwin seat, Heli bars, highway pegs, etc.) and now I want to get into the performance side. Several years ago when I first got my bike and read a lot about the Guhl reflashing (is that still the company to go with) and recently have seen others online advertising the same upgrade. So, here goes my question, what recommendations do y'all make for a doing the reflash and, what recommendations do you suggest for an exhaust system to get me the most horses. My intent of course is to install the exhaust system first so I can get the reflash to match my exhaust. Thanks in advance for your patience with me and your input!!

Well, I see I'm too late to this party.  I bought my '09 with an AreaP full system and PC-V installed.  A slip-on of any kind is a lot of money for so little HP, but they are easy.  I would not bother with a slip-on.  My bike was also tuned on a DynoJet 250 with a fairly high HP reading.  Having never ridden a stock C14, I never knew I had "lost" low/midrange torque.  I certainly never wanted for more.  Adding Steve's Mountain Runner flash for the AreaP was eye opening.  Had it been like this from the beginning, I'd have been afraid of it.  Ivan has a long history with carb kits, so he should have the right experience.  But, I have known Steve for several years and he is regularly coming up with surprising mods for the Concours bikes that work. 

As for suspension, I have a 748 with Ohlins at both ends, custom sprung and damped for me.  It is so good I can feel the pavement texture and will look for manhole covers to ride over, for fun.  GREAT suspension is addictive.  I have Ohlins in my MX-5.  I had Traxxion install AK-20 with compression and rebound adjustment and a 4-way adjustable Penske in the rear, sprung and damped just for me.  By comparison, the stock bike moves and wiggles too much and is scary, at highway speed.  My Traxxion suspension is smooth, stable and plush without any excess monkey motion whether at 40 or leaned over at 120.  Sublime.  Every bit a match for Ohlins. 

I would counsel everyone to do the suspension first. 
« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 03:46:23 pm by Colt45 »
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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Performance updgrade
« Reply #30 on: June 11, 2018, 09:44:50 pm »
I hope nobody takes my comments as a slight on Steve’s tune. I knew full-well what I was getting, and I’m very happy with it. I forgot to mention that the flies are out on mine. The flash recommends running them for low end, but I personally don’t feel I need them since I don’t have a comparison to judge by. Looking at Steve’s description, it mentions choosing the decel quality for the AP flash. Maybe I’ll check with him on that.

without the secondaries you're not going to get any added deceleration that the others are talking about. thanks, steve

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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Performance updgrade
« Reply #31 on: June 11, 2018, 11:16:51 pm »
I hope nobody takes my comments as a slight on Steve’s tune. I knew full-well what I was getting, and I’m very happy with it. I forgot to mention that the flies are out on mine. The flash recommends running them for low end, but I personally don’t feel I need them since I don’t have a comparison to judge by. Looking at Steve’s description, it mentions choosing the decel quality for the AP flash. Maybe I’ll check with him on that.

without the secondaries you're not going to get any added deceleration that the others are talking about. thanks, steve

funny how those "i forgot to say..." things really come into play downstream, eh Steve...?
 :-X :truce: :rotflmao:

 luv ya bro, wouldn't wanna be ya, but I guess we both see a "lot" of these thangs...

I have to dig up the website I had recently, that actually HAD replacement Flies, I thought it was on the website from the clutch slave cylinder overseas, but now I can't find it... dammit.... I actually bookmarked it for future (current) reference, and can't find it... they were cheap also, dammit.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2018, 11:21:14 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Performance updgrade
« Reply #32 on: June 11, 2018, 11:33:49 pm »


funny how those "i forgot to say..." things really come into play downstream, eh Steve...?
 :-X :truce: :rotflmao:



   Honestly, Rich, it happens all the time. I'll see someone make a comment, or take a comment as meaning my most current flash, and yet I know it's a 2.5 year old flash that has been discontinued and replaced, stuff like that. Actually earlier in this thread there was something mentioned that might make someone think that my flash doesn't have great low rpm manners... but that was one of the original things I targeted over 3 years ago. So yeah, it can be tough when there's "more to the story" and the reader isn't privy to it. Steve
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Offline Lee Ving

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Re: Performance updgrade
« Reply #33 on: July 05, 2018, 11:36:27 am »

Just a commentary here on engine braking. In my experience less restrictive exhaust reduces engine braking, as does proper fueling. The newer fuel injected bikes have a groovy feature referred to as 'fuel cut' where the engine is effectively off when throttle is closed. This is very sucky for rideability and makes the most engine braking. The newer the bike, generally the stricter the emissions, and the effect is even more sucky. My opinion, mind you.
For some reason Harleys appear unaffected by this fuel cut, if you get a chance to take a spin on one.
It is my understanding that Ivans approach to his flash involves a level of programming not offered by other flashes where fuel cut can be manipulated among other "locked" parameters.
In my experience engine braking increases with exhaust back pressure, leaner fueling, and fuel cut. Ignition timing also can play a role.

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Performance updgrade
« Reply #34 on: July 05, 2018, 02:19:11 pm »

It is my understanding that Ivans approach to his flash involves a level of programming not offered by other flashes where fuel cut can be manipulated among other "locked" parameters.


  You might want to research that.

  Steve
« Last Edit: July 05, 2018, 02:40:13 pm by Steve in Sunny Fla »
C-14 ECU flashing for performance and rideability enhancement
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Offline rcannon409

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Re: Performance updgrade
« Reply #35 on: July 05, 2018, 09:40:49 pm »

Just a commentary here on engine braking. In my experience less restrictive exhaust reduces engine braking, as does proper fueling. The newer fuel injected bikes have a groovy feature referred to as 'fuel cut' where the engine is effectively off when throttle is closed. This is very sucky for rideability and makes the most engine braking. The newer the bike, generally the stricter the emissions, and the effect is even more sucky. My opinion, mind you.
For some reason Harleys appear unaffected by this fuel cut, if you get a chance to take a spin on one.
It is my understanding that Ivans approach to his flash involves a level of programming not offered by other flashes where fuel cut can be manipulated among other "locked" parameters.
In my experience engine braking increases with exhaust back pressure, leaner fueling, and fuel cut. Ignition timing also can play a role.

I believe your theory, but it also brings up another question.

If you try a newer KTM...like a 1290 Superduke, the fueling is damn good. Its not perfect, but its way, way better than anything we ever had. Sure, you would probably want a reflash, but its not like you are reaching for the next day air envelopes, either.

There must be ways of masking the fuel cut, or maybe they don't follow the emissions as closely as the Japanese have to?
« Last Edit: July 06, 2018, 12:37:44 pm by rcannon409 »
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Performance updgrade
« Reply #36 on: July 05, 2018, 10:21:24 pm »

Just a commentary here on engine braking. In my experience less restrictive exhaust reduces engine braking, as does proper fueling. The newer fuel injected bikes have a groovy feature referred to as 'fuel cut' where the engine is effectively off when throttle is closed. This is very sucky for rideability and makes the most engine braking. The newer the bike, generally the stricter the emissions, and the effect is even more sucky. My opinion, mind you.
For some reason Harleys appear unaffected by this fuel cut, if you get a chance to take a spin on one.
It is my understanding that Ivans approach to his flash involves a level of programming not offered by other flashes where fuel cut can be manipulated among other "locked" parameters.
In my experience engine braking increases with exhaust back pressure, leaner fueling, and fuel cut. Ignition timing also can play a role.

I believe your theory, but it also bring sup another question.

If you try a newer KTM...like a 1290 Superduke, the fueling is damn good. Its not perfect, but its way, way better than anything we ever had. Sure, you would probably want a reflash, but its not like you are reaching for the next day air envelopes, either.

There must be ways of masking the fuel cut, or maybe they don't follow the emissions as closely as the Japanese have to?

well, to be honest, it isn't a comparison of like components, as the SD is throttle by wire, and the C14 is cable actuated throttle body.

for the price of the Duke, and with that technology, yeah... maybe someday the C14 will be on a level field, so a comparo of like systems can be used. I'm sure at some point, Kaw will go fly by wire, but expect increased costs, and extremely reduced "owner modifiablity" as the result.
Having ridden a Duke, I see no reason it would need to be flashed. It's a different bike, with different parameters, and weight, suited for a completely different riding style and purpose. Yes, it's a blast to ride in twisties, but you won't ride it cross country, without a lot of NSAID's, and a fat wallet.

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Offline Lee Ving

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Re: Performance updgrade
« Reply #37 on: July 08, 2018, 07:43:36 pm »

Just a commentary here on engine braking. In my experience less restrictive exhaust reduces engine braking, as does proper fueling. The newer fuel injected bikes have a groovy feature referred to as 'fuel cut' where the engine is effectively off when throttle is closed. This is very sucky for rideability and makes the most engine braking. The newer the bike, generally the stricter the emissions, and the effect is even more sucky. My opinion, mind you.
For some reason Harleys appear unaffected by this fuel cut, if you get a chance to take a spin on one.
It is my understanding that Ivans approach to his flash involves a level of programming not offered by other flashes where fuel cut can be manipulated among other "locked" parameters.
In my experience engine braking increases with exhaust back pressure, leaner fueling, and fuel cut. Ignition timing also can play a role.

I believe your theory, but it also brings up another question.

If you try a newer KTM...like a 1290 Superduke, the fueling is damn good. Its not perfect, but its way, way better than anything we ever had. Sure, you would probably want a reflash, but its not like you are reaching for the next day air envelopes, either.

There must be ways of masking the fuel cut, or maybe they don't follow the emissions as closely as the Japanese have to?

I wonder about that also. I am always fascinated at how the different mfrs get the varied results they do. I have to think some must follow different rules for restrictions. Of course, there is also engineering that differs. It must be very difficult to make a motorcycle run well while conforming to the modern (strict) emission rules. Like I said before, one that really sticks out to me is Harley. Their new US model big bikes seem to fuel really nicely off of zero throttle. Not really my thing, but I have to admire. The Yamaha Eluder bikes to me felt pretty good there, too. The new Gold Wing, not so much. All of my street Kawasakis from about 2008 model years on have had trouble in this region with feeling really "dry" and jerky.
I have not yet ridden one of the big KTMs, kind of afraid I'd like it.