Concours Owners Group (COG) Forum

Concours 14 Discussion (C14 / ZG1400 / 1400GTR) => Concours 14 / ZG1400 General Chat and Tech => Topic started by: gilbysan on June 12, 2019, 03:02:23 pm

Title: Question about running temp...
Post by: gilbysan on June 12, 2019, 03:02:23 pm
Coggers,
It seems that my '12 C14, 24K miles on the odometer, Mobil1 20W-50 Full synthetic, seems to be running hotter this year vs. last.  The fan is running more often than not when sitting at traffic lights and in general is indicating one or two bars warmer, other then when traveling over 50MPH or so.
I changed the coolant to Honda Type2, 15 months ago after a thorough flush, etc. and that had been working well.  As the year is heating up however I am concerned that maybe I am developing a different issue that is causing the higher run temps.  Note that in the Pac NW summer temps run in the 80s and sometimes 90s not nearly as hot as Phoenix or South Florida so to have the fans activate seems strange to me.

Note- once I get underway, say on the highway and run over 50MPH it cools right down showing two bars, which for this bike has been the normal indication.
It is just light to light, traffic, etc. that shows more heat than before.  I also noticed that my right ankle is feeling warmer than before, indicating that there is more heat coming off the engine.

Since the hoses and thermostat are now at least 9 years old, I have ordered replacements and will install them when they arrive and do a thorough flush Engine Ice fill.

Taking a ride to Laguna Seca this July and want to figure out what, if anything is happening before I hit the road.  Any thoughts or theories you can share about the increase in running temp is appreciated!  I am also open to the potential that I am just being paranoid and creating an issue where none exist...

Thanks!
Gilbysan
Title: Re: Question about running temp...
Post by: Kreton'sLC on June 13, 2019, 03:59:07 pm
Surprised none of the mechanical brains have responded, but you mentioned noticing heat on your right ankle - something I've yet to notice on my '12 in toasty Austin stop and go traffic.  My understanding is that the heat shielding incorporated in the "Gen 2" C14s was designed to not only keep heat off the rider better, but also to allow engine heat to dissipate better, thereby allowing the engine to run cooler.

Is it possible you have heat shielding that's damaged, missing, or not seated properly?
Title: Re: Question about running temp...
Post by: Dirtwiz on June 14, 2019, 12:46:30 am
gilbysan..I see you are running 20W50W and you live in the Northwest. 10w40 is recommended in the C14's so not sure if that can make a difference but I run 10w40w here in the southwest (currently over 100* here right now). I'm from the Seattle area and don't see the heavy oil helping anything in that climate. Did you maybe add a radiator guard to your bike? I put one on mine and I notice when its hot it runs about 1 bar hotter on the gauge. SISF had a post on here last year about his coolant cocktail that gets the best protection for overheating. Try a search on here if you want to try it next coolant change.
Title: Re: Question about running temp...
Post by: gpd323 on June 14, 2019, 01:17:21 am
Could be bug and debris in the radiator causing the increased temps. I always back flush mine when I wash it.
Title: Re: Question about running temp...
Post by: lather on June 14, 2019, 02:22:50 am
Its just the global warming. Everything is hotter now. Including Connie. :)
Title: Re: Question about running temp...
Post by: gilbysan on June 14, 2019, 03:05:40 pm
Thanks to everyone that have responded. Hey Grant!  How goes it?
Correction- I am running Mobil1 10W50, must have had a brain fade when I wrote that.
For the insulation, it is in good shape, it was all replaced when the bike was repainted in 2018 and recently checked out good.
I wash the bike approx. every week and make sure to clean any debris off the radiator, and it looks to be in good shape.

I have not installed a radiator screen on it, although have considered it.  Rather, I have a BlueOne Fender Extender which is longer than other models sold on the web and I feel does a better job of protecting the radiator from jetsam flinging off the tires.  Had this same model on my '13 C14 as well and did not notice any difference in running temp before or after install.
As mentioned I am running the Honda Type2 coolant which is one of the better (as I have read) coolants on the market for our type bikes.  After I replace all cooling hoses and thermostat, I will try Engine Ice to see what effect it may have on running temps. 

Strange thing is that I can be at two bars while moving along and shortly after I stop at a light, say, within about 45-60 seconds I am up to 4 bars and if the light is longer than 90 seconds it registers 5 bars and the fans engage.  After getting underway, again, and over 50MPH it cools right down to three bars and when on the freeway gets back down to 2 bars.
Just strange that we notice these small alterations in the operation of the bike and engine after riding our bikes for some time...
Wondering if maybe the Valve adjustment could be contributing to this temp change.  Bike is running well as far as I can tell, but as we know, it is hard to discern a real performance difference unless something like a coil stops functioning, or something else major happens.
Thanks for all your feedback, I appreciate it!
Safe Travels!
Gilbysan


Title: Re: Question about running temp...
Post by: TimR on June 14, 2019, 04:17:15 pm
Both fans are running? My 09 cools down at speeds of 45 or greater too. But I have not seen the temp shoot up after As far as yours after a short stop. I wonder if your temp sensor that turns the fans on had gone wonky. When was the last time the radiator was flushed? 
Title: Re: Question about running temp...
Post by: gilbysan on June 14, 2019, 10:51:10 pm
TimR,
Good questions. Jan 2918 Flushed (3 times) from original in '12. Honda Type 2 at 2K miles. 

I am about to replaced all cooling hoses and thermostat (Monday) and try Engine Ice after flushing first of course, with distilled water.
Can't tell if both are running or just one. If the gauge is an indicator of Temp at the probe then the fans should absolutely be running, IMO.  Today I timed a heat rise by the gauge and took a vid of it, but have yet to watch it.  59F, a bit humid due to cloud cover.  I believe within 90 seconds of my stop I went from 2 bars to 4, then fans, then the light changed and it was back down to three bars within 60 seconds of moving from the light, and 2 bars after 2 minutes.

Either something is changing or I have a pretty reactive/sensitive/responsive? to heat C14...My kind of problem to troubleshoot!

Thanks for your input!
Gilbysan


Title: Re: Question about running temp...
Post by: JerBear on June 15, 2019, 12:34:16 am
Regardless of temp both fans run when the temp sensor get hot enough to engage them.
Title: Re: Question about running temp...
Post by: Jim on June 15, 2019, 12:37:59 am
It sounds to me like your cooling system is working as it should. It's not overheating or puking coolant onto the pavement. I wouldn't worry about it.
Title: Re: Question about running temp...
Post by: gilbysan on June 15, 2019, 12:39:09 am
Thanks, that makes sense.  Otherwise we might be talking about a TLA'd German labeled product that might engage one fan on odd days and the other on even days, and both only on German Unification Day, of course!
Cheers!
Gilbysan
Title: Re: Question about running temp...
Post by: gilbysan on June 15, 2019, 12:40:20 am
Jim,
Also makes sense.  But I insist on worrying about something!
Life has little meaning if not for worry, right?  Right?
Gilbysan
Title: Re: Question about running temp...
Post by: Old Man on a Connie on June 15, 2019, 12:52:04 am
Mine jumps up at stops here in Vegas on hot days also. Until it starts to puke (and it hasn't) I'm not to worried. 10/40 full synth motul and water wetter. '11 flushed twice in her lifetime, Cox rad guard and weepy water pump replaced once. Always back flush the rad when washing (which is rare sadly) Double check the fluid level in the expansion tank to make sure its on the level other than that ride that puppy.
Title: Re: Question about running temp...
Post by: gilbysan on June 15, 2019, 03:28:17 am
Old Man - no disrespect intended.  Ok, what is a hot day in Vegas?  A hot day in Seattle Metro might be 90, which I think we just did last week.  But it does not last, at least so far. Hotter than that and the tar snakes come out big time.  Also, people on cars get cranky, especially because they wish their car had AC.

Cheers!

Gilbysan
Title: Re: Question about running temp...
Post by: TimR on June 15, 2019, 02:55:45 pm
It could be your fender extender. I know when I put the radiator screen on my 09, the temp went up higher than before. Instead of putting around town at 25 mph, the bar went up one bar to 3. It could be with the fender extender installed air flow is being disrupted sorta like it did with the installation of the screen. I hardly think a little heavier weight of oil would make the sorta change you are seeing. Just a thought. Tim
Title: Re: Question about running temp...
Post by: Old Man on a Connie on June 15, 2019, 05:22:52 pm
No worries. Hot here is 100 to 115. Did 118 through death valley last year. But it's a dry heat  ;)
Title: Re: Question about running temp...
Post by: connie_rider on June 15, 2019, 06:53:17 pm
Geez that's hot!
 Not that hot here, but sadly it's not a dry heat here...

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: Question about running temp...
Post by: MtnRider on June 16, 2019, 01:30:01 am
Mustache drooping, Ted?    :D
Title: Re: Question about running temp...
Post by: gilbysan on June 16, 2019, 03:32:35 pm
TimR,
I thought about the Fender Extender however, it predates the temp issue so I am reasonably confident that it is not the root cause.  It might be a contributor to the temp rise if something else is marginal in the running engine.  It will be interesting to replaced all the hoses, therm, and do a thorough flush then refill to see what happens (if anything) to the running temp. 

If the hoses, etc. don't have an impact on temps then I will look elsewhere; for example doing a valve adjustment to see if that contributes to a cooler running temp.
The only other thing I changed 3K miles ago was the oil. Went from Castrol Actevo 10W-40 syn blend to Mobil1 10W50 full syn.  I cannot get my head around the idea that the oil type could contribute to higher engine running temps...
Thank you for all!
Gilbysan


Title: Re: Question about running temp...
Post by: connie_rider on June 16, 2019, 05:08:46 pm
Justathought; The temp sending unit might be acting up.
                     Have you looked at the engine temp with an infrared gauge to confirm the quick temp change?

Ride safe, Ted {w/ Droopy mustache}
Title: Re: Question about running temp...
Post by: gilbysan on June 16, 2019, 05:55:21 pm
CR,
I have not but will do this shortly.  What do you mean when you say "engine tip?"  Maybe referring to a certain place on the engine?
Thanks, much appreciated!
Gilbysan
Title: Re: Question about running temp...
Post by: connie_rider on June 16, 2019, 06:00:55 pm
Typo. Meant to say engine temp.
Just check ands see how fast the temp rises.
Can do it with plastic on, {thru the vents} if you have an infrared unit.

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: Question about running temp...
Post by: cuda on June 16, 2019, 07:23:58 pm
If both fans are working I would forgetaboutit. My 2011 has never had the coolant changed  or checked :-X, never saw any leaks, I have a rad screen, 88 to 93 degrees for the next 4 months, I guess I'm just lucky, but I'm a night rider (too freaking hot daytime here :( )  :beerchug:
Title: Re: Question about running temp...
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on June 16, 2019, 08:02:09 pm
Gilby,
don't freak out and become obsessed, seems like everything you say is completely NORMAL behavior on this bike... nothing to worry about.
It's not "pegging" the top, and having fans on constantly, believe me you will know if it gets "dangerously hot...."...

all good.... I been running a fenda extenda since '08, makes no disruption on "cooling", when you are sitting at a light in traffic... :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

possibly the different oil may have played a part... but at 24K now, have you done your valve inspect yet?

That alone at this point could make a drastic difference in engine temps at idle, or low speeds... combined with a new air filter and if needed throttle body synch...
Much more efficiency in combustion and breathing, makes the engine run cooler... just noting this.
Title: Re: Question about running temp...
Post by: 56taskforce on June 16, 2019, 09:48:09 pm
Thanks to everyone that have responded. Hey Grant!  How goes it?
Correction- I am running Mobil1 10W50, must have had a brain fade when I wrote that.
For the insulation, it is in good shape, it was all replaced when the bike was repainted in 2018 and recently checked out good.
I wash the bike approx. every week and make sure to clean any debris off the radiator, and it looks to be in good shape.

I have not installed a radiator screen on it, although have considered it.  Rather, I have a BlueOne Fender Extender which is longer than other models sold on the web and I feel does a better job of protecting the radiator from jetsam flinging off the tires.  Had this same model on my '13 C14 as well and did not notice any difference in running temp before or after install.
As mentioned I am running the Honda Type2 coolant which is one of the better (as I have read) coolants on the market for our type bikes.  After I replace all cooling hoses and thermostat, I will try Engine Ice to see what effect it may have on running temps. 

Strange thing is that I can be at two bars while moving along and shortly after I stop at a light, say, within about 45-60 seconds I am up to 4 bars and if the light is longer than 90 seconds it registers 5 bars and the fans engage.  After getting underway, again, and over 50MPH it cools right down to three bars and when on the freeway gets back down to 2 bars.
Just strange that we notice these small alterations in the operation of the bike and engine after riding our bikes for some time...
Wondering if maybe the Valve adjustment could be contributing to this temp change.  Bike is running well as far as I can tell, but as we know, it is hard to discern a real performance difference unless something like a coil stops functioning, or something else major happens.
Thanks for all your feedback, I appreciate it!
Safe Travels!
Gilbysan
I am here Mr. Sounds like an air flow problem to me. Many prior post have touched on this, first ensure the radiator core is clean and clear of debris all the way through. Shine a light on the back side of the radiator checking to see it shines through over the entire surface. Next check both fans ensure all the blades are intact not malformed and function properly running to full speed.  If the radiator core is clear and the fans work properly be sure all the ducting is in place sealed well and there is nothing obstructing airflow.
Title: Re: Question about running temp...
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on June 16, 2019, 11:23:45 pm
Gilby,
don't freak out and become obsessed, seems like everything you say is completely NORMAL behavior on this bike... nothing to worry about.
It's not "pegging" the top, and having fans on constantly, believe me you will know if it gets "dangerously hot...."...

all good.... I been running a fenda extenda since '08, makes no disruption on "cooling", when you are sitting at a light in traffic... :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

possibly the different oil may have played a part... but at 24K now, have you done your valve inspect yet?

That alone at this point could make a drastic difference in engine temps at idle, or low speeds... combined with a new air filter and if needed throttle body synch...
Much more efficiency in combustion and breathing, makes the engine run cooler... just noting this.

all I can add, again.
Title: Re: Question about running temp...
Post by: gilbysan on June 17, 2019, 12:43:59 pm
MoB,
Thank you Sir.  Of course you are correct on all counts.  No need to get to obsessive about this aspect.  The thing for me is this; in my retirement I do some really fun work installing, troubleshooting and repairing large woodworking and metal forming tools; things like table saws, CNC routers, you name I will fix it.  Some machines I have not seen the type before and need to figure out it operational principles before I can repair it correctly which is what I like about this work.  So, my mind is always turning on how to tweak the machine to work to its highest purpose, and because I work in a lot of Schools, I want to ensure that they are as safe as they can be for the kids.
I guess the same goes for the bike. Looking to keep it in good shape and running well. It is my primary form of transportation and carries me to pretty much every site in the State of WA. 

As for the Valve adjustment, it has not been done and is something that I have been delaying for no good reason other than sloth. This heat issue is the catalyst that will almost certainly lead me to this task and the throttle body sync.
Thanks much again!
Gilbysan
Title: Re: Question about running temp...
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on June 17, 2019, 08:05:19 pm
 :great: :beerchug: :motonoises: :motonoises: :motonoises: