Author Topic: Radiator Overflow Issue  (Read 614 times)

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Offline SATXRIDER

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Radiator Overflow Issue
« on: August 06, 2018, 11:32:25 am »
Have a '13 Concours and just got back from a trip to Colorado Rockies.  Bike ran perfectly, except for one persistent issue.  Was riding up the Million Dollar hwy and was up pretty high in altitude when we hit a road stoppage due to construction.  So I shut the bike off and then I noticed a stream of coolant running down the road, which came from my bike.  It happened again when I stopped to gas up.  I have ridden this bike very hard before at lower altitudes and immediately shut it off and never had this issue.   Is it possible the altitude had something to do with it?

I know the overflow bottle was not overfull, matter of fact I lost so much coolant I had to add more back in via the overflow tube.  Had to do this a couple of times during the trip.  I can confirm the fluid was coming from the overflow tube.  Matter of fact, I would cut the bike off, hear the radiator gurgling, hear it going into the overflow bottle and then a few seconds later here comes the stream of coolant out the overflow tube.   Once I got back down from altitude, the issue stopped.

Thoughts?

Steve
2013 C-14
2006 ZX-14
1982 GS1100

Offline khager01

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Re: Radiator Overflow Issue
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2018, 12:37:50 pm »
I have a 17 and never had that issue yet.  I have been up to about 7K-8K ft never stuck in traffic at that altitude, but I have pulled over at a turnout and shut the bike off to take a pic or two.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2018, 01:00:30 pm by khager01 »
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Offline RWulf

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Re: Radiator Overflow Issue
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2018, 12:59:05 pm »
The gurgling would seem to indicate you have air in the system. The altitude
may have caused a minor amount of air in the system to expand and cause
a larger hot spot than at lower altitude. Might check for trapped air in the engine.

Offline Jeff Kerkow

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Re: Radiator Overflow Issue
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2018, 03:06:42 pm »
Had the same issue this summer. I believe the root cause was bad radiator cap. There is a thread on here somewhere with all the details. If you can't find it send me a PM and I will look harder. $10.00 for new cap at Auto parts stores
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Offline SATXRIDER

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Re: Radiator Overflow Issue
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2018, 04:03:08 pm »
Had the same issue this summer. I believe the root cause was bad radiator cap. There is a thread on here somewhere with all the details. If you can't find it send me a PM and I will look harder. $10.00 for new cap at Auto parts stores

Jeff, I did remember you had an issue and almost gave you a call.  Quite possible I had some air in the system that was compounded by the altitude and then got worse as I lost fluid.  Do you remember which auto parts store you got the cap at, as it is obviously smaller than an auto radiator cap?

Steve
2013 C-14
2006 ZX-14
1982 GS1100

Offline Jeff Kerkow

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Re: Radiator Overflow Issue
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2018, 04:23:16 pm »
Don't remember the store but a couple of them had it.

The cap is a Stant # 10233


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Offline Jeff Kerkow

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Offline Turtle

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Re: Radiator Overflow Issue
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2018, 09:33:24 pm »
Are the cooling fans working?

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Radiator Overflow Issue
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2018, 09:53:03 pm »
Don't remember the store but a couple of them had it.

The cap is a Stant # 10233

Jeff,
what did you use to cross reference that Stant with OEM?
I don't think we made a list yet of 'substitute parts' with that, or any other ones. Just curious, as I want to book mark it, and create a viable listing now.
(I know we had a substitute part list for the C10, but I think this cap is different, and not on that list anyways.)
It also looks (when I searched) to be a 16# cap, (I think the OEM is rated 13#, and has a range in testing of 13 nominal to 18# max if 'sticky')
« Last Edit: August 07, 2018, 11:09:25 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Radiator Overflow Issue
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2018, 11:13:34 pm »
Had the same issue this summer. I believe the root cause was bad radiator cap. There is a thread on here somewhere with all the details. If you can't find it send me a PM and I will look harder. $10.00 for new cap at Auto parts stores

Jeff, I did remember you had an issue and almost gave you a call.  Quite possible I had some air in the system that was compounded by the altitude and then got worse as I lost fluid.  Do you remember which auto parts store you got the cap at, as it is obviously smaller than an auto radiator cap?

Steve
actually that Stant cap is used on 151 different cars, by cross referencing it... so it's common auto parts.
I'm sure the fluid loss contributed, but the C14's 'system' is much improved over the old bikes, and has a direct line from the thermo housing to below the cap,(that's the bottom hose below the cap, on the filler neck) to purge any bubbles in the system or such that could form.

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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Radiator Overflow Issue
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2018, 12:35:44 am »
ok.. couldn't let this rest, makes me crazy to do that...

after playing searchmaster-number-cruncher... I find we have a simple new list for replacement.... the same ones we used on the C10...
hear me out on my thesis....
the '86-88 used p/n 49085-1053 cap...
then it changed to the -1054 for '90 up
the -1054 is shown to be replaced with the -1067 (as the systems are identical, it works for all C10's... '86 thru '06...)
The C14 uses the -1066, for all years, but in looking, that part supercedes numerous others... including the -1053, in all of its applications.. which are numerous also

soooooo working top down, anything we used on the C10.... SHOULD work fine...for the C14.
Cross referenced you won't directly see it being called out backwards, but the supercessions tell the tale...sooo there ya go... we do have a list already.
and those iirc, were all 13# caps, which are preferred.

as for the Stant 10233, it isn't on the list, but not saying it won't work (need to compare diameter and depth dimensions for clarification..) I'll use the old 'standby parts' without worry tho.

the C10 list:
radiator cap   49085-1053
(32mm ID x 16mm deep neck)0.9bar / 13psi   
Carquest :33028 (Guy B. Young II)      
Stant: 10227 (boxed) (Guy B. Young II)
Stant: 11227 (blister pack) (Guy B. Young II)
Same as 1978 Ford Fiesta   
Stant: 10229 (Bryan Moody)
 CST: 7013 (Bryan Moody)
 Motorcraft: RS62 (Bryan Moody)
 Motorcraft: RC19 (Bryan Moody)
 Beck/Arnley: 133-8060 (Bryan Moody)
 Beck/Arnley: 133-8078 (Bryan Moody)
 Gates: 31527 (Bryan Moody)
 AC-Delco: RC19 (Bryan Moody)

gleaned from this source

https://www.randols.net/Connie/concours_common_parts.htm
« Last Edit: August 08, 2018, 12:52:15 am by MAN OF BLUES »

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Offline SATXRIDER

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Re: Radiator Overflow Issue
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2018, 10:52:14 am »
Are the cooling fans working?

Yes, cooling fans came on shortly after temp gauge hit 3 bars.  Only had it overflow maybe once while the engine was running and fans were going.  Problem occurred primarily when I shut the bike off and I had 3 bars showing on the temp gauge.  If I came off a hwy and the temp gauge showed 2 bars, did not have the issue with it gurgling and then overflowing.    I am going to replace the current radiator fluid with SISF coolant cocktail.  Living in Texas, don't have to worry all that much about freezing, more about keeping the bike cool.  I will also buy a radiator fill kit that helps you to ensure you get "all" the air out of the radiator.   Possible my radiator cap went bad and was releasing too soon, but that still should not have caused the overflow issue unless there was too much fluid in the overflow bottle to begin with.

Steve
2013 C-14
2006 ZX-14
1982 GS1100

Offline gilbysan

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Re: Radiator Overflow Issue
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2018, 04:03:39 pm »
Sooo, now I am curious.  Do your fans always go on at 3 bars showing or is that due to the altitude?  I live in the Seattle area and it has been pretty hot (for us) lately.  In the 90s. Sitting in traffic during the hottest part of the day my fans will go on at about 5 bars, cool it down to 4 bars, then when I start off again will cool down to 2-3 bars which I have taken as the "normal" operation for my C14.  I Honda's propriety coolant in my radiator and it seems to work fine...If my fans went on at 3 bars that would drive me crazy thinking that it is overheating. or something...
Thanks!
Gilbysan
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Offline SATXRIDER

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Re: Radiator Overflow Issue
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2018, 11:41:28 am »
Found this from a previous thread discussing the fan operation.  My fans were cutting on between 3 & 4 bars.  The below info says fans should come on somewhere between 4-5 bars.  Funny, I have never really paid that much attention to when the fans cut on until I had this issue.


I have been curious about the C-14's actual coolant temperatures, and in the few searches I did on here, all I found were other people that were also curious, but still no answers.

Anyway, maybe this information has already been posted and discussed, but I thought I'd check mine out today and see what the actual temps were for each block in the instrument panel. The temperatures below were observed on my 2010 C-14.

There are six (6) blocks, and I'll call the bottom block #1. This is the one with the "C" or "F" in it. Mine has a "C" in it.

Block # 1 comes on at 30*C (86*F)
Block # 2 comes on at 50*C (122*F)
Block # 3 comes on at 70*C (158*F)
Block # 4 comes on at 85*C (185*F)
Block # 5 comes on at 100*C (212*F)
Block # 6 comes on at 110*C (230*F). If this block comes on, you are overheating, and the whole screen will be flashing a temperature warning. The 110*C I am posting here is an estimate...I am not curious enough to overheat my engine to find out, but the FSM gives 110*C (230*F) as the upper test limit. I've never hit the sixth block in either of my two Concours-14's, but I have seen 105*C on several other Kawasaki's I have had, and still never got an over-temp warning. My curiosity was only with normal operating temps...not the overheating limit.

Cooling fans turn on at exactly 95*C (203*F) and shut off at 90*C (194*F).
2013 C-14
2006 ZX-14
1982 GS1100

Offline Jeff Kerkow

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Re: Radiator Overflow Issue
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2018, 11:59:45 am »
Rich I found the OEM part number and then googled it. The Versys forums had the cross reference. FWIW they had instances of the same issue Steve and I had.

Once the cap is bad it does not seal and hold pressure.

As I posted earlier I believe what happens is you shut the bike off hot and it spits some coolant into the overflow. A proper working system just sucks it back in the next time around. That is why when you are low on coolant both the overflow tank and radiator need fluid.

You can theorize all you want but once I put the new cap on no more overflow issue.

Someone has the temp for fan on and off.
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Offline gilbysan

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Re: Radiator Overflow Issue
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2018, 03:13:24 pm »
Thanks for the info SATXRIDER and JK; all very helpful info to tuck in the crevices of my diminishing gray matter.
I wonder if anyone has ever installed a temp probe somewhere in the cooling system to back check the factory gauge...
Safe summer riding!
Gilbysan
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Offline khager01

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Re: Radiator Overflow Issue
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2018, 08:28:42 pm »
You do know by the time this happens to you, that you will have forgotten all about this thread and we will have to go thru this and relearn it again!
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Radiator Overflow Issue
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2018, 09:56:34 pm »
I have a mind like a steel trap.... cold and hard... somewhat rusty, but I've killed off all the braincells that refuse to retain the good stuff...


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Offline SATXRIDER

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Re: Radiator Overflow Issue
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2018, 06:31:04 pm »
Finally had a chance to fully investigate the issue I had with the radiator overflowing.  Stripped the plastic off and drained the radiator and added a fresh batch of Steve's coolant cocktail.  As I was burping the radiator, I ran it all the way up to 3 bars and could see when the radiator pressure reached the point where the cap gave way and the fluid started to fill the overflow tank.  The fans would kick on shortly after that and the coolant would be sucked back in the radiator.  So all appeared to be functioning properly.  However, I got the engine good and hot with fans running and then shut it off.  Watched as the coolant level in the overflow continued to rise until it once again overflowed, losing at least a cup of fluid. 

So problem was still there.  Jeff Kerkow recommended replacing the radiator cap with a Stant 10233.  At the whopping cost of $9, I gave it a shot.   I followed the same drill and this time, the overflow would come up to just past the full mark and stop. 

So, it appears the issue was the radiator cap.  Apparently it was not getting a good seal cause the problem seems to be fixed.  At least I hope so.

Steve

2013 C-14
2006 ZX-14
1982 GS1100

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Radiator Overflow Issue
« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2018, 07:09:19 pm »
 :great: :great: :beerchug:

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Offline connie_rider

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Re: Radiator Overflow Issue
« Reply #20 on: September 02, 2018, 07:13:56 pm »
Glad you figured it out.

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