Author Topic: Rear brake issue  (Read 533 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ChrisD

  • Road Bike
  • ***
  • Posts: 342
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 12153
  • Membership Level: Active
Rear brake issue
« on: September 24, 2017, 04:15:11 pm »
**REAR BRAKE ISSUE** Interesting ride this weekend with my brothers on our annual run to the Rose in the Odenwald. About 2 hours into the ride I noticed my girl become sluggish and when I used the clutch to shift, the bike would drastically slow down. At the same time started smelling something like burned wiring as I was looking for somewhere to safely pull over.  Immediately shut down the bike and all electronics.  Then noticed that my rear disc was as red as if it had popped out of a kiln and smoking some, WTH.  Put her on the center stand and let her sit for a bit.  I turned the back tire and no binding, pressed the rear brake lever no brakes, pulled the front brake lever and nothing.  Let everything cool off for 30 minutes and checked the brakes again everything working perfect.  Continued to the hotel at a slow pace and checked the wheel again for binding, no issues. Rode her home today on the autobahn, straight roads and no issues.  I'm gonna break apart the rear caliper and check it out as soon as I get some time.  Going to replace the disc, pads, fluid and check the caliper for binding.

My question is has anyone had this issue?  And if so what caused it?  Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
AMA, ROK, GCE, GTR1400 Owners Group
2012 Candy Arabian Red (Sheba)

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

  • Industry Member
  • I Need a Life
  • *
  • Posts: 7271
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 6977
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Rear brake issue
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2017, 04:19:38 pm »
we've been seeing issues like this, and they go back to the ABS failing due to dirty brake fluid. Steve
C-14 ECU flashing for performance and rideability enhancement
C-10 Carb work , cams, & performance enhancements
 " Modifications for sport-tourers, BY a sport-tourer"
https://sites.google.com/site/shoodabenengineering/home

Offline Deepsea

  • Street Cruiser
  • ****
  • Posts: 704
  • AREA: Southwest Area
  • COG#: 10376
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Rear brake issue
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2017, 04:24:17 pm »
Is it possible that a small pebble got stuck in the linkage? Maybe it fell out when you stopped. This was a problem with earlier models that required two recalls. It happened to me on one occassion. I can't speak to ABS since my 09 doesn't have it.

BSA Gold Star, Norton Commando, Moto Guzzi V-7 Sport, Norton Commando, John Player Norton, BMW R90S, Kawasaki Z-1 and Z-1R , Honda CB-650, C-14
El Mirage Record Holder A-BG 3000cc 11/83 184.049 mph  CDA#0438
(twin engine, twin turbo, Z-1)
Retired Navy Saturation Diver

Offline ChrisD

  • Road Bike
  • ***
  • Posts: 342
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 12153
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Rear brake issue
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2017, 05:32:59 pm »
we've been seeing issues like this, and they go back to the ABS failing due to dirty brake fluid. Steve

I thought of that Steve, but had replaced the lines last month with a set of Galfers brake lines with new fluid.   >:(
 
AMA, ROK, GCE, GTR1400 Owners Group
2012 Candy Arabian Red (Sheba)

Offline connie_rider

  • OtP {assistant} Slave Labor
  • I Need a Life
  • ******
  • Posts: 7003
  • Help us make "OtP" possible! "AGAIN"
  • AREA: South Central Area
  • COG#: 4154
  • Membership Level: Asst. Area Director
Re: Rear brake issue
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2017, 06:06:46 pm »
I've seen a pebble do this.
Are they still dragging??

Ted
14 Connie (Traveler II)
03 Connie (Buddy)

To contribute to "OtP", (Chg. Card or paypal)  Click Here
(For Paypal) send to treasurer@cog-online.org

Offline MAN OF BLUES

  • I Need a Life
  • ******
  • Posts: 6849
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 5977
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Rear brake issue
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2017, 06:14:26 pm »
Had this exact same set of symptoms occur on my '08 about late fall of '08 right after I began to hear about the brake linkage recall, but I had not recived my notice yet (did get it 3 weeks later tho)..
Pebble in lower linkage to pedal, and it happened within 5 miles from home.. it was glowing red....
Flipped the brake pedal a dozen times and saw the stone pop out and hit the pavement...
Limped the bike back home using front brake only and shot pictures, and the next day called dealer, and dropped it off after hauling it on a trailer...

They completely replaced the caliper, fluids, pads, rear master cylinder because of the extreme temperature they saw,, and inspected the rear wheel seals... and did the first linkage recall, all in that same day...  and all under warranty...
There was a second recall to fix the origanlly installed initial recall linkage....I had that done also... prior to a second incident...

Those recalls followed the bike no matter how long the original warranty had expired just to note... but I had 2 extended warranties anyway.

IMHO even the second linkage could be compromised buy a pebble tossed up from a road, and wedge the pedal on... so I check that area often after riding on gravel.

30 YEARS OF KAW.....Rich R. (the other one..)  COG 5977  JUSTAMEMBAHNOW

Offline ChrisD

  • Road Bike
  • ***
  • Posts: 342
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 12153
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Rear brake issue
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2017, 06:38:24 pm »
Thanks MOB, I've got some pics from the old linkage and new linkage will check the bike tomorrow to see if it has been swapped out.  I've ordered a new disc and pads and also seals in case it's the pistons.  Guess I just need to take it apart and give it a good inspection.
 
AMA, ROK, GCE, GTR1400 Owners Group
2012 Candy Arabian Red (Sheba)

Offline MAN OF BLUES

  • I Need a Life
  • ******
  • Posts: 6849
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 5977
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Rear brake issue
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2017, 07:15:20 pm »
Thanks MOB, I've got some pics from the old linkage and new linkage will check the bike tomorrow to see if it has been swapped out.  I've ordered a new disc and pads and also seals in case it's the pistons.  Guess I just need to take it apart and give it a good inspection.

Do yourself a favour...
When you order parts, order every rubber seal part for that caliper....
You saw the disc glowing red, just as I did.. and when it cooled off it was blue and scorched...
The caliper got hot enough to melt the rubber caps on the bleeder valve... it surely compromised those internal seals... my were like chewing gum, when I looked at the unit at the shop on the bench... that's why the service department replaced the complete caliper, they said it cost more to rebuild it than it was worth Time wise to them... I was glad they did.
I'm not sure if they replaced the ABS sensor or not, but in their words "we replaced anything and everything that was subjected to the heat generated during the failure", which I felt good about, and I did and still do trust that service department...  I think that's why they replaced the master cylinder and line also, as it was compromised, or could have been, by the heat in that fluid... which was boiling for sure...

Just warning ya in advance....

30 YEARS OF KAW.....Rich R. (the other one..)  COG 5977  JUSTAMEMBAHNOW

Offline ChrisD

  • Road Bike
  • ***
  • Posts: 342
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 12153
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Rear brake issue
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2017, 07:25:46 pm »
MOB, i did order all the seals and O-ring.  And will keep your comments in mind as I take it apart, if it looks even a little out of whack I'll order a new caliper for her.
 
AMA, ROK, GCE, GTR1400 Owners Group
2012 Candy Arabian Red (Sheba)

Offline AmphibSailor

  • Hooligan
  • Street Cruiser
  • ****
  • Posts: 747
  • Ted calls me Cap'n Crunch.
  • AREA: South Central Area
  • COG#: 12210
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Rear brake issue
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2017, 02:36:41 am »
Thanks MOB, I've got some pics from the old linkage and new linkage will check the bike tomorrow to see if it has been swapped out.  I've ordered a new disc and pads and also seals in case it's the pistons.  Guess I just need to take it apart and give it a good inspection.

Are the linkage's the same for the 08/09's as the newer bikes?  Chris, care to share your pic's so that I can check mine as well?

PATRICK


09 Concours aka 'The Cruncher:' Corbin Canyon Dual Sport (Laam for longer trips, Laam modded Corbin Modular with Smuggler for mid-length trips), Top Blocks, Penske 8983, Traxxion AK20s, Helibars Horizon ST bars w/Galfer SS +6 cables, MRA Vario Touring Windscreen/Madstad brackets (Copper Dawg sport screen for summer), Area P full system, throttle tamer, Steve's Flash.

Offline ChrisD

  • Road Bike
  • ***
  • Posts: 342
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 12153
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Rear brake issue
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2017, 03:16:26 am »
Thanks MOB, I've got some pics from the old linkage and new linkage will check the bike tomorrow to see if it has been swapped out.  I've ordered a new disc and pads and also seals in case it's the pistons.  Guess I just need to take it apart and give it a good inspection.

Are the linkage's the same for the 08/09's as the newer bikes?  Chris, care to share your pic's so that I can check mine as well?

PATRICK

Patrick

When I get home this afternoon I'll post what I found and what I currently have on the bike...
 
AMA, ROK, GCE, GTR1400 Owners Group
2012 Candy Arabian Red (Sheba)

Offline ChrisD

  • Road Bike
  • ***
  • Posts: 342
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 12153
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Rear brake issue
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2017, 02:34:08 pm »
This is the picture I found concerning the rear brake linkage.  The one on the left is the old one and the one on the right is the new one (replaced under the recall)



Looks like mine is the new one



The disc....






 >:(


 
AMA, ROK, GCE, GTR1400 Owners Group
2012 Candy Arabian Red (Sheba)

Offline MAN OF BLUES

  • I Need a Life
  • ******
  • Posts: 6849
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 5977
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Rear brake issue
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2017, 05:49:12 pm »
Your linkage is the same as the second recall linkage, so you have the latest, but if you actuate the pedal, I think you can see what I meant by "it could still jamb up with the right sized pebble" ...

Your rotor looks better than mine did, but not much... it did get hot for sure...
Best of luck on your repairs..

30 YEARS OF KAW.....Rich R. (the other one..)  COG 5977  JUSTAMEMBAHNOW

Offline ChrisD

  • Road Bike
  • ***
  • Posts: 342
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 12153
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Rear brake issue
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2017, 08:28:37 am »
Your linkage is the same as the second recall linkage, so you have the latest, but if you actuate the pedal, I think you can see what I meant by "it could still jamb up with the right sized pebble" ...

Your rotor looks better than mine did, but not much... it did get hot for sure...
Best of luck on your repairs..

Thanks MOB. I'm hoping that it will be something evident when I start breaking it apart. Not knowing what may have caused it would not be a good thing. I'll keep everyone posted.
 
AMA, ROK, GCE, GTR1400 Owners Group
2012 Candy Arabian Red (Sheba)

Offline Gscott

  • Training Wheels
  • *
  • Posts: 83
  • 09 C14
  • AREA: Southwest Area
  • COG#: 12413
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Rear brake issue
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2017, 04:16:36 pm »
When I bought my 09 in 2014 I did a fluid flush and again in Sept. of 16, January of 17 ABS pump had to be replaced. 

Offline Freddy

  • Moped
  • **
  • Posts: 207
  • AREA: Southwest Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Rear brake issue
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2017, 10:02:05 pm »
snip>  I turned the back tire and no binding, pressed the rear brake lever no brakes, pulled the front brake lever and nothing.  <snip

My question is has anyone had this issue?  And if so what caused it?  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Chris, it's more alarming that the front failed also.  I assume you mean that the front lever pulled to the grip, correct?  If so, my thinking is that the fluid in the rear actually boiled due to the extreme heat you described - much higher than would be generated even in racing, despite the new fluid.  As a consequence, the front brake failed due to the F/R linked system on that bike. 

ABS failures of any sort on the linked system is almost unheard of, unlike the non-linked system. 

My 2 cents worth.
The best substitute for brains is ..............what?