Author Topic: Rear brake pedal engagement point  (Read 5442 times)

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Offline Freddy

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Re: Rear brake pedal engagement point
« Reply #25 on: July 18, 2017, 04:16:37 am »
That's a less common fault these days so take it to the dealer for repair.  Kaw should rectify it without issue.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2017, 01:26:59 am by Freddy »
The best substitute for brains is ..............what?

Offline Deepsea

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Re: Rear brake pedal engagement point
« Reply #26 on: July 18, 2017, 09:12:08 pm »
Slow is smooth, smooth is fast. Don't grab anything, use slow smooth hand controls. Both throttle and brake. I trail brake most any corner above dead slow, it helps settle the chassis and keeps the forks compressed. If you try this be very careful learning as it's easy to over brake and lose the front end. Even letting off the front brake needs to be slow and easy.
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Offline flashback50

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Re: Rear brake pedal engagement point
« Reply #27 on: July 19, 2017, 02:25:12 pm »
Being thorough, as you say, would include flushing the blocked off circuit.    :beerchug:

I heard recently that if you turn key on when flushing the brakes that it allows fluid to flow thru the ABS circuits that are normally closed when bike is off. Don't know if it is true but would be nice.

Offline parttimer`

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Re: Rear brake pedal engagement point
« Reply #28 on: July 19, 2017, 02:44:12 pm »
So, i am not sure if anyone has noticed after installing the AST lowering kit the rear pedal goes dead sometimes?  I will probably make a post about this on it's own so as to not thread jack.  After installing my AST lowering kit my rear brake works, sometimes, other times I too have to give it a press or two then the engages.  This is on a 17, and I have the aggressive setup for braking running, i don't have it set using the detuned setup in the 15+ models.  When applying the pedal it sinks all the way with very little slowing.  Let up on the pedal, press again and bam, braking. 

Offline cyberswine

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Re: Rear brake pedal engagement point
« Reply #29 on: July 19, 2017, 03:59:29 pm »
To the question raised about pulsing on the front brake of a new bike:  my '15 started that and I had the rotors replaced under warranty, a little hassle from the dealer but Ma Kawasaki straightened them out right smartly for me.  A search should reveal more on that issue.

Offline Freddy

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Re: Rear brake pedal engagement point
« Reply #30 on: July 19, 2017, 09:36:17 pm »
Being thorough, as you say, would include flushing the blocked off circuit.    :beerchug:

I heard recently that if you turn key on when flushing the brakes that it allows fluid to flow thru the ABS circuits that are normally closed when bike is off. Don't know if it is true but would be nice.


Why didn't I think of that?   >:(    It's true that the solenoids/valves are cycled at start-up but it's unknown whether that happens before or just after the bike is ridden those first 5 yards or so and light goes off if all is well - except for the gen 1 rear brake failure warning.

Whatever, it would be a good thing to do.   :beerchug:
The best substitute for brains is ..............what?

Offline flashback50

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Re: Rear brake pedal engagement point
« Reply #31 on: July 19, 2017, 11:47:45 pm »
Being thorough, as you say, would include flushing the blocked off circuit.    :beerchug:

I heard recently that if you turn key on when flushing the brakes that it allows fluid to flow thru the ABS circuits that are normally closed when bike is off. Don't know if it is true but would be nice.


Why didn't I think of that?   >:(    It's true that the solenoids/valves are cycled at start-up but it's unknown whether that happens before or just after the bike is ridden those first 5 yards or so and light goes off if all is well - except for the gen 1 rear brake failure warning.

Whatever, it would be a good thing to do.   :beerchug:

This came from a service tech that has been in the Industry for many years so I'm hoping it does indeed work.. I will be trying it the next time I flush my brake and clutch fluids for sure. I guess it can't hurt to try  :beerchug:

Offline Freddy

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Re: Rear brake pedal engagement point
« Reply #32 on: July 20, 2017, 02:28:32 am »
Thinking..........thinking.........  :017:  :c029:  That hurts.   :'(   and we're   :offtopic:

There was an interesting discussion on this issue in the thread below starting at reply 112.

Still thinking about what I know of how the system works, it seems unlikely to me that bleeding while turning the key on and/or off would do anything extra.  My reasoning is that the solenoids & valves probably don't cycle until the bike begins to move - but doing a stationary experiment with a pint or so of fluid may indicate something, which I (and perhaps others) will try out of curiosity.  If the valves do cycle then, that would momentarily close the circuit from the m/cyl to the caliper, causing a hydraulic lock because the line to the caliper would then be open to the pump, therefore closed to the m/cyl.  (This is the rear brake failure some gen 1 owners have reported, due to stuck valve.)  Whether the speed at which this potentially happens would be discernible is an unknown, but perhaps the operator may feel a hydraulic pulse of some sort.   :??:

As you say, it can't hurt to try and I, for one, would be interested in what you discover, if anything.

http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-14-zg1400-general-chat-and-tech/abs-failure-due-to-fluid/100/


Matt makes an interesting point here about activating the ABS then rebleeding:

http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-14-zg1400-general-chat-and-tech/bleeding-brakes-on-an-abs-model/msg309502/#msg309502
« Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 07:54:03 am by Freddy »
The best substitute for brains is ..............what?

Offline sfsokc

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Re: Rear brake pedal engagement point
« Reply #33 on: July 20, 2017, 03:14:14 pm »
For the life of me, I just don't understand this selective and confusing approach to braking. As long as I can remember, from the MSF safety course, to books I've read from David Hough and Lee Parks, I believe I've always seen that you use BOTH BRAKES smoothly on a motorcycle.  Why upset the dynamics or otherwise lose braking power, especially on a bike with linked brakes where it's supposed to compensate?

I've always ridden this way, with my old bike w/o linked, and now with the Connie.  Only issue I ever had was on the old bike, going downhill in a curve, in the rain, and stopping at a light one time.  Back wheel tried to lock and come around a couple times, where each time I eased up on the back brake to settle it.

Even when practicing full-on panic stops, with BOTH brakes, I've not locked the rear wheel on this bike.  So my advice to anyone is simple, use BOTH brakes smoothly, only modifying this habit if conditions really warrant it.  Your "muscle memory" should be to use both brakes.

Offline connie_rider

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Re: Rear brake pedal engagement point
« Reply #34 on: July 20, 2017, 05:18:32 pm »
Steve, what year C-14 do you have?

Ride safe, Ted
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Offline sfsokc

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Re: Rear brake pedal engagement point
« Reply #35 on: July 20, 2017, 08:22:22 pm »
It's a 2011 Ted, combined 50K+ miles or so between the last two bikes.

Offline connie_rider

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Re: Rear brake pedal engagement point
« Reply #36 on: July 21, 2017, 04:08:27 pm »
Not sure you have the linked brakes on your 12?

If not, we all agree that using both brakes is best.
The problem is the Linked brakes on the C-14. {mine is a 2014}

ie; If you are using a brake (front or rear) and apply the other, the braking force suddenly multiplies.
       It does not do so as a smooth transition...
       For instance; (While using the front) If I touch the rear,, the change in braking force is "drastic".

What works best for me is to use the front brake lever only.
      The front does most of the braking and links in the rear. {so that it is doing it's part}

It was hard to teach myself to use front only. {as I've always used both on a non linked system}.

Ride safe, Ted
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Offline old fart

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Re: Rear brake pedal engagement point
« Reply #37 on: July 22, 2017, 04:58:08 am »
Hey Rock

This is Rick. Give me a holler and we can compare notes. I live right up the road from your mom.
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Offline TNConnieRider

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Re: Rear brake pedal engagement point
« Reply #38 on: January 05, 2018, 09:44:44 pm »
I use the rear brake at low speed like you and at high(er) speed when in a corner/bend and needing to drop some speed without the bike wanting to go off line by use of the front brake.  That's is/was the major complaint/trouble with the linked system until Kaw changed the ABS ECU linked calibration a coupla years back to minimise or eliminate this characteristic.  I haven't ridden a recalibrated model to find out but that's been reliably reported elsewhere.
Hmm.. not sure how to respond to that statement.
I  never touch the rear brake- I gear down of course and use engine braking and also practice Trail Braking when entering  a turn (I want the suspension to be compressed and remain compressed going into a turn- rear brakes cant do that---were talking about  hard  cornering )
Trail Braking is not really something to be used for  street riding but I still practice but I was taught on the track to never touch the rear brake... of course we did not have anti lock brakes  or linked brakes in those days so I maybe a throwback cuz  I am old

On the track, brakes into a turn, not in it. also, gear shift reversed- 1 up 5 down. Ahhh what memories
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Offline Lee Ving

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Re: Rear brake pedal engagement point
« Reply #39 on: January 07, 2018, 09:20:49 am »
Curt, not normal. Check for warped rotors.

Offline Lee Ving

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Re: Rear brake pedal engagement point
« Reply #40 on: January 07, 2018, 09:48:55 am »
The GP guys absolutely use rear brake. The Concourse is a horrible example to test this on due to the rider aids, but rear brake has a stabilizing or settling effect on the chassis when applied at speed. Application of the rear produces a torque on the swing arm that tends to compress the rear suspension and lower the rear. It takes skill to use the rear in racing, but that lowering effect helps keep the rear down when braking hard.
To the original topic, in the original mode my bike is real grabby on the brakes if I use the rear indiscriminately. If I ignore the rear brake pedal all is well. I have noticed that in the original mode that the rear does not engage at the same point at all times and seems to be unpredictable. It even seems to vary day by day and with warmup. At higher speeds and 2 up the brakes feel better in original mode, but I use the second newer mode 100%. Even so, I still have to respect the rear pedal.
Rider aids make my blood boil.

Offline Freddy

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Re: Rear brake pedal engagement point
« Reply #41 on: January 07, 2018, 12:38:43 pm »
<snip
To the original topic, in the original mode my bike is real grabby on the brakes if I use the rear indiscriminately. If I ignore the rear brake pedal all is well. I have noticed that in the original mode that the rear does not engage at the same point at all times and seems to be unpredictable. It even seems to vary day by day and with warmup. At higher speeds and 2 up the brakes feel better in original mode, but I use the second newer mode 100%. Even so, I still have to respect the rear pedal.
Rider aids make my blood boil.

What you're describing is the Kaw linked system operating, is it not?
The best substitute for brains is ..............what?

Offline connie_rider

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Re: Rear brake pedal engagement point
« Reply #42 on: January 07, 2018, 05:04:00 pm »
After I got my C-14 I hated the linked brakes.
Others told me to stop using the rear pedal.. (Post #14)
So, I forced myself to learn to use only the front brake lever. 
   The bike stops fine if you only use the front brake lever.

I'm so used to it that I had completely forgot that you have 2 modes on this bike.
  {as I recall they are for normal/1-up and for 2-up riding?}
Guess I need to go look how mine is set...   :-[

In February, some of us are going to attend the Sport Touring School in Florida.
I'm sure they will instruct us on proper brake use.
     One of my questions will be about using the Linked Brakes on these bikes.

Ride safe, Ted
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Offline Freddy

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Re: Rear brake pedal engagement point
« Reply #43 on: January 07, 2018, 10:47:10 pm »
Earlier in this thread I posted a link to what I did to the linked system.  That may, or may not, interest you.   :beerchug:
The best substitute for brains is ..............what?

Offline connie_rider

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Re: Rear brake pedal engagement point
« Reply #44 on: January 07, 2018, 11:46:53 pm »
Thanks Freddy.
I was aware of your post, and considered it..
Opted to keep it stock
  Part of why I didn't opt to go that way was laziness.
  Part was the concern that the ABS wouldn't function properly.

At this stage, I'm pretty happy with the way I'm using it.
   {Just took me some time to learn to use only the front lever}..
      If I need the back pedal for a panic stop... I'm sure I'll use it too!!

I posted my last comment; for those that are now aware of using only the front,
                                        to let ya'll know we will ask their opinion at the school.

Ride safe, Ted
« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 01:34:08 pm by connie_rider »
14 Connie (Traveler II) / 03 Connie (Buddy)
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Help us make "OtP" possible again, DO IT NOW!!

Offline Lee Ving

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Re: Rear brake pedal engagement point
« Reply #45 on: January 08, 2018, 12:54:00 am »
<snip
To the original topic, in the original mode my bike is real grabby on the brakes if I use the rear indiscriminately. If I ignore the rear brake pedal all is well. I have noticed that in the original mode that the rear does not engage at the same point at all times and seems to be unpredictable. It even seems to vary day by day and with warmup. At higher speeds and 2 up the brakes feel better in original mode, but I use the second newer mode 100%. Even so, I still have to respect the rear pedal.
Rider aids make my blood boil.

What you're describing is the Kaw linked system operating, is it not?

Yes.

Offline barberman

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Re: Rear brake pedal engagement point
« Reply #46 on: January 21, 2018, 06:34:04 pm »
Gotta' chime in here,  the brakes on my 2012 were strange feeling at first, especially the rear. I could feel the pulse"  OH that's normal? And it felt dangerously weak.  Might as well drag yer feet.  BUT after several (6) total bleed outs, new pads, and 90% alcohol rub down on the rotors, the brakes work beautifully. No pulsing rear pedal. And firm consistent braking.  Not that i use them much. (Just letting of the gas a tad lets me blow through corners at twice the suggested "retail" speed. ha ha) KJ