Author Topic: Rear brake  (Read 8462 times)

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Offline Smitty

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Re: Rear brake
« Reply #50 on: January 31, 2017, 08:47:21 pm »
Bike is in the shop quoted $1700-1800 parts and labor to replace the ABS pump :'(.  I will be getting the unserviceable pump back.  If someone on here wants to dissect, I will send.
'08 Kawasaki Concours ABS; Decel Flashed by SiSF ("Gazelleda")
'09 Suzuki Burgman 650 Executive ("Super Scoot") [sold]

Offline Freddy

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Re: Rear brake
« Reply #51 on: January 31, 2017, 09:53:44 pm »
Didn't you ask the dealer to tell Kaw of the failure and ask them to fund it?

New is always better than used - if you can afford it.
The best substitute for brains is ..............what?

Offline Smitty

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Re: Rear brake
« Reply #52 on: February 01, 2017, 01:17:32 am »
Freddy,
Yes I did.  It seems as though I am going to have a fight with them about it.  It also seems like I am getting some run around.  The dealer told me the mechanic called Kawasaki, however I called Kawasaki myself and they said they had not talked to anyone from my dealership today.  So I called back the dealership and they kinda were a little weird about it and said they would call again.  I guess I have to physically be there to make sure they talk to someone at Kaw??  I feel like I am about to eat a big turd sandwich on this one. >:(
'08 Kawasaki Concours ABS; Decel Flashed by SiSF ("Gazelleda")
'09 Suzuki Burgman 650 Executive ("Super Scoot") [sold]

Offline Freddy

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Re: Rear brake
« Reply #53 on: February 01, 2017, 01:28:09 am »
Thanks for the feedback Smitty.  Good luck with that.

Dealers!!!    >:(
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Offline Smitty

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Re: Rear brake
« Reply #54 on: February 02, 2017, 10:06:45 pm »
Got word yesterday that my local dealer won't work on my bike because it is outside of their skill set >:(  This is becoming a pain in the a$$.  Now I gotta go 1.5hrs to another dealership to have a qualified mechanic work on it. :beer:
'08 Kawasaki Concours ABS; Decel Flashed by SiSF ("Gazelleda")
'09 Suzuki Burgman 650 Executive ("Super Scoot") [sold]

Online gPink

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Re: Rear brake
« Reply #55 on: February 02, 2017, 10:18:03 pm »
The bright side is that local dealer isn't going to screw up your bike.

Offline mattchewn

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Re: Rear brake
« Reply #56 on: February 06, 2017, 01:12:56 pm »
The bright side is that local dealer isn't going to screw up your bike.
Yup,
He has to trailer it 1 1/2 hours away to get it screwed up now. What a relief!    >:(

Maybe this dealer will actually call Kawasaki about warranty replacement?
Let's hope so.
Matt
2015 C14  Poison Ivy. I feel the itch!
2014 KTM 690 Enduro R  Wheelie sweet!!

Offline Smitty

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Re: Rear brake
« Reply #57 on: February 07, 2017, 03:23:11 pm »
I just don't think they even wanted to try and deal with it.  I brought it to another local shop that has good reviews.  Dropped it off last night and talked to the owner of the shop.  I got a warmer fuzzy from him that they could fix it.  We shall see.  Hoping this bike doesn't become a hanger queen. :??:
'08 Kawasaki Concours ABS; Decel Flashed by SiSF ("Gazelleda")
'09 Suzuki Burgman 650 Executive ("Super Scoot") [sold]

Offline Smitty

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Re: Rear brake
« Reply #58 on: February 16, 2017, 06:03:04 pm »
Finally, got my bike back.  I ended up having the mechanic delete the rear brake line going to the ABS pump; now the line just goes from the master cylinder to the caliper.  No, rear abs for now, but I have brakes again.  $150 fix.
'08 Kawasaki Concours ABS; Decel Flashed by SiSF ("Gazelleda")
'09 Suzuki Burgman 650 Executive ("Super Scoot") [sold]

Offline hlh1

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Re: Rear brake
« Reply #59 on: February 16, 2017, 07:35:35 pm »
Finally, got my bike back.  I ended up having the mechanic delete the rear brake line going to the ABS pump; now the line just goes from the master cylinder to the caliper.  No, rear abs for now, but I have brakes again.  $150 fix.

Easy fix.  Do you know if ABS is working for the fronts? 
92 GW1500A, 06 WeeStrom, 09 C14 ABS, 09 C14,


Offline Freddy

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Re: Rear brake
« Reply #60 on: February 16, 2017, 11:06:20 pm »
So Kaw didn't get involved with it right? 

You could fit a used one as per previous posts.

No-one's lived to report same failure to the front brake.

As I said on page 1 of this thread, the failure of the warning system is the greater concern.
The best substitute for brains is ..............what?

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Rear brake
« Reply #61 on: February 16, 2017, 11:12:51 pm »
Finally, got my bike back.  I ended up having the mechanic delete the rear brake line going to the ABS pump; now the line just goes from the master cylinder to the caliper.  No, rear abs for now, but I have brakes again.  $150 kluge

fixed that for you, and did it for free... :great:

nothing was "fixed".

now, make sure you save your service receipt.. because if you have a catastrophic crash, as a result of a failure, you might be able to sue Bubba for his 1986 Blazer, and his collection of Skynyrd albums...

most of my post is just made in a joking manner, so PLEASE don't flame me for my sick humor attempts.. but some makes sense...

kluge
noun, Computer Slang.
1. a software or hardware configuration that, while inelegant, inefficient, clumsy, or patched together, succeeds in solving a specific problem or performing a particular task.

kludge
noun

A term of endearment for a favorite computer, esp a somewhat defective one
A computer program that has been revised and tinkered with so much that it will never work
A ludicrous assortment of incompatible and unworkable components : You see this mechanical kluge (contraption), stop, think, and decide to do something

kludge in Technology Expand
jargon
/klooj/, /kluhj/ (From German "klug" /kloog/ - clever and Scottish " kludge ") 1. A Rube Goldberg (or Heath Robinson) device, whether in hardware or software.
The spelling "kluge" (as opposed to "kludge") was used in connection with computers as far back as the mid-1950s and, at that time, was used exclusively of *hardware* kluges.
2. A clever programming trick intended to solve a particular nasty case in an expedient, if not clear, manner. Often used to repair bugs. Often involves ad-hockery and verges on being a crock. In fact, the TMRC Dictionary defined "kludge" as "a crock that works".
3. Something that works for the wrong reason.
4. ( WPI ) A feature that is implemented in a rude manner.
In 1947, the "New York Folklore Quarterly" reported a classic shaggy-dog story "Murgatroyd the Kluge Maker" then current in the Armed Forces, in which a "kluge" was a complex and puzzling artifact with a trivial function. Other sources report that "kluge" was common Navy slang in the WWII era for any piece of electronics that worked well on shore but consistently failed at sea.
However, there is reason to believe this slang use may be a decade older. Several respondents have connected it to the brand name of a device called a "Kluge paper feeder" dating back at least to 1935, an adjunct to mechanical printing presses. The Kluge feeder was designed before small, cheap electric motors and control electronics; it relied on a fiendishly complex assortment of cams, belts, and linkages to both power and synchronise all its operations from one motive driveshaft. It was accordingly tempermental, subject to frequent breakdowns, and devilishly difficult to repair - but oh, so clever! One traditional folk etymology of "klugen" makes it the name of a design engineer; in fact, "Kluge" is a surname in German, and the designer of the Kluge feeder may well have been the man behind this myth.
TMRC and the MIT hacker culture of the early 1960s seems to have developed in a milieu that remembered and still used some WWII military slang (see also foobar ). It seems likely that "kluge" came to MIT via alumni of the many military electronics projects run in Cambridge during the war (many in MIT's venerable Building 20, which housed TMRC until the building was demolished in 1999).
[Jargon File ]
(2002-10-02)


and for the person asking if the ABS works on the "front brakes"...
better do some ABS research... read section 12 in the FSM....

I'd expect some service code errors 13 thru 18, and even up to 35... better check to see if they pulled the fuse for the solenoid circuit.. I'd bet they did...
now you have no idea what is going on with the system...


 :??: ;)
« Last Edit: February 16, 2017, 11:49:02 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

30 YEARS OF KAW.....Rich R. (the other one..)  COG 5977  JUSTAMEMBAHNOW

Offline Freddy

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Re: Rear brake
« Reply #62 on: February 16, 2017, 11:48:29 pm »
What MOB said.   :beerchug:
The best substitute for brains is ..............what?

Offline Smitty

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Re: Rear brake
« Reply #63 on: February 17, 2017, 01:05:19 am »
Next time just call me an idiot and save the sugar coating. The ABS light goes out like normal. I have intentions on getting it fixed properly.  I am going to get the pump off eBay. I am not the first to use this work around. As it has been mentioned on here a few times.  Thanks for the concerns.
'08 Kawasaki Concours ABS; Decel Flashed by SiSF ("Gazelleda")
'09 Suzuki Burgman 650 Executive ("Super Scoot") [sold]

Offline Freddy

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Re: Rear brake
« Reply #64 on: February 17, 2017, 01:11:24 am »
The ABS light goes out like normal. 

That's the problem.
The best substitute for brains is ..............what?

Offline Smitty

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Re: Rear brake
« Reply #65 on: February 17, 2017, 10:54:30 am »
I got a used pump from an 09' off eBay last night. Are they coded to the bike they came on or can they be swapped around?...plug and play so to speak.
'08 Kawasaki Concours ABS; Decel Flashed by SiSF ("Gazelleda")
'09 Suzuki Burgman 650 Executive ("Super Scoot") [sold]

Offline Freddy

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Re: Rear brake
« Reply #66 on: February 17, 2017, 11:36:33 am »
Well done!  Just a straight swap, nothing other than bleeding the system.  Ensure you mark/photograph which pipes go where.


EDIT: further to reply #34, the 2012 & later ABS unit will NOT work on a series 1 zg1400 (non-linked) bike.  Apart from the different sensor rings on the 2012 & later bikes, they have Traction Control so there is another issue which rules out a swap.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 03:11:04 am by Freddy »
The best substitute for brains is ..............what?

Offline Smitty

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Re: Rear brake
« Reply #67 on: February 17, 2017, 01:46:41 pm »
Wilco, thanks for the info. 

Hey MOB,
Since I am nice guy I won't flame you, although I am biting my tongue right now.  Do you want the old pump to take apart?
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 07:16:44 pm by Smitty »
'08 Kawasaki Concours ABS; Decel Flashed by SiSF ("Gazelleda")
'09 Suzuki Burgman 650 Executive ("Super Scoot") [sold]

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Rear brake
« Reply #68 on: February 17, 2017, 07:17:44 pm »
Wilco, thanks for the info. 

Hey MOB,
Do you want the old one to take apart?

 :beerchug:
Again, I was just being a joker with my attempt at humor, sounds like you jumped in and all will be good.
Yes, I would like to have a defective unit to do diagnostics on, shoot me a p/m with your contact info and email, and we can discuss of line.
Thanks,

30 YEARS OF KAW.....Rich R. (the other one..)  COG 5977  JUSTAMEMBAHNOW

Offline Freddy

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Re: Rear brake
« Reply #69 on: February 17, 2017, 10:45:26 pm »
What a truly caring family we are.   :)
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Online TimR

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Re: Rear brake
« Reply #70 on: February 18, 2017, 08:34:23 am »
I have a theory why the rear ABS is failing. It is just a theory and nothing more. I believe the problem is the brake fluid is not getting changed often enough.

I've noticed when changing the rear brake fluid on my 09 the fluid appears to be somewhat contaminated looking with tiny black flecks suspended in the fluid and slightly off color. The first time I changed it I was probably over due and it was defiantly the worse looking. The front brake and clutch has not have this contamination.

So my question is are the brake lines deteriorating and thus the replacement cycle listed in the FSM? Or could it be the rear brake hoses take on more stress because the rear ABS is more likely to be activated than the front?   

My thought or at least until my rear brake goes away is annual brake fluid changes. Tim
Blue 1975 Z1B 900, Red 09 C14     I might not be perfect but at least I don't ride a Suzuki

Offline Freddy

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Re: Rear brake
« Reply #71 on: February 18, 2017, 10:00:37 am »
Kaw agrees with your theory - rather, they say it's a fact.

It's an interesting observation you make on the discoloration of the fluid.  I wonder who else has noticed this? 

Yes, hose deterioration is certainly a concern but what puzzles me is that the brake failure has only been reported on the rear brake.  I've said a few times, somewhat seriously, that it's not been reported on the front as no-one has lived to do so.  GoldWing and HD have recalls for hose deterioration causing similar problems, so it makes one wonder about the K hoses being the cause. 

Furthermore, I've read no reports of it happening to the later linked brake system and the 2010 model is as old (or a little older) now as the 2008/09 model was when it started to show up.  Nissin make the ABS units and the hoses probably all come from the same factory. 

I believe that rear ABS activation requires much less pressure that normal front braking due to the weight transfer.

So it's all still a bit of a mystery.
The best substitute for brains is ..............what?

Offline Smitty

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Re: Rear brake
« Reply #72 on: February 18, 2017, 05:19:44 pm »
I have a theory why the rear ABS is failing. It is just a theory and nothing more. I believe the problem is the brake fluid is not getting changed often enough.

I've noticed when changing the rear brake fluid on my 09 the fluid appears to be somewhat contaminated looking with tiny black flecks suspended in the fluid and slightly off color. The first time I changed it I was probably over due and it was defiantly the worse looking. The front brake and clutch has not have this contamination.

So my question is are the brake lines deteriorating and thus the replacement cycle listed in the FSM? Or could it be the rear brake hoses take on more stress because the rear ABS is more likely to be activated than the front?   

My thought or at least until my rear brake goes away is annual brake fluid changes. Tim

I tend to agree with your theory as well.  When the mechanic took apart the brake system the other day he said there was a bunch of junk in the rear master cylinder, which I know the fluid was flushed and replaced within the last year.  They replaced my rear line with a steel braided line.  When I go back in to have the ABS pump replaced I will have them replace the lines as well and flush the whole system again.  I think Kaw should do something about this issue.  It seems to be popping up more and more and not just on the C14.  My mechanic said that when he researched failed abs pumps he found quite a few ZX14's of the same model year having the same problem.
'08 Kawasaki Concours ABS; Decel Flashed by SiSF ("Gazelleda")
'09 Suzuki Burgman 650 Executive ("Super Scoot") [sold]

Online TimR

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Re: Rear brake
« Reply #73 on: February 18, 2017, 09:24:36 pm »
I wonder if there have no reports on the front ABS is because it activates less frequently. I have only felt my front wheel ABS activate once or twice that wasn't on purpose. The rear on the other hand does so when not on completely dry pavement. It not the rear activates all the time but it is more often than the front for sure.

In the past I've purposely gone to gravel parking lots to activate both the front and rear ABS a couple of times a year thinking this would keep the pumps from getting stuck.  I'm beginning to think this might not be a great idea. But the jury is still out.

I would really like MOB's and SISF's input if they would.  Thanks Tim
Blue 1975 Z1B 900, Red 09 C14     I might not be perfect but at least I don't ride a Suzuki

Offline Freddy

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Re: Rear brake
« Reply #74 on: February 18, 2017, 10:25:42 pm »
XZ14 in those years didn't have ABS except for the European model (ZZR1400) so I'd be keen to learn where he's getting his info.  From my interest in the issue, it's seems a rare fault there too.
The best substitute for brains is ..............what?