Author Topic: Severe pulsating with new EBC rotors and pads  (Read 992 times)

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Offline ddialogue

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Severe pulsating with new EBC rotors and pads
« on: September 09, 2017, 02:01:58 am »
My apologies in advance for yet another brake pulsating thread!  ;D

My 2010 C14 has had pulsating in the brakes since I bought it used in 2012 with 2,750 miles on it.  It's gotten progressively worse so I broke down and bought a new set of EBC MD4155XC's and the matching EBC sintered brake pads.  These things look great on the bike and I was excited to take it for a test spin.  Once out on the roads I noticed the pulsation is now twice as bad as with the worn out stock rotors.  It's completely unrideable and I'm at a loss as to why they'd be like this.  :truce:  I'm going to go through the entire front end tomorrow to ensure cleanliness of the components and that everything is torqued to spec.  While replacing the pads, I did notice the right caliper pads were worn about twice as much as the pads on the left caliper but I didn't really think too much about it.

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Dave
Dave

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Offline Deepsea

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Re: Severe pulsating with new EBC rotors and pads
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2017, 02:53:47 am »
Put your bike on the center stand and jack it up so the front wheel is off the ground. Without applying any brake pressure spin the wheel. Are the brakes dragging ? If yes you have a caliper/master cylinder problem. One of the likely culprits is the return hole in the master cyl. How old is the brake fluid? Is it clear or dark? Are the wheel bearings ok?
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Offline jwh20

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Re: Severe pulsating with new EBC rotors and pads
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2017, 09:37:38 am »
Check the runout or the rotors with a runout gauge.  It's possible you installed the new rotors without getting the mating surface on the hub perfectly cleaned. 
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Offline ddialogue

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Re: Severe pulsating with new EBC rotors and pads
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2017, 04:03:40 pm »
Check the runout or the rotors with a runout gauge.  It's possible you installed the new rotors without getting the mating surface on the hub perfectly cleaned.

Thank you both for your replies.  I stopped out this morning and bought a gauge to check the run-out.  Man, they are WAY out for brand new rotors.  I pulled the wheel and made sure the mating surfaces were clean (they looked good but I cleaned them again.)  I cleaned the red loc-tite out of the recessed bolt holes thinking that maybe the bolts weren't going in deep enough before hitting their torque values.  Put it all back together and the result is the same.

I'm including a link to videos of the rotors with the gauge on them for your viewing pleasure.  I appreciate any and all thoughts on the problem.  Thanks!

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/3ph30xz8tg5u65o/AAAGoRGy-RzcwISTuiobKKzOa?dl=0
Dave

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Offline Fred_Wa2gzw

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Re: Severe pulsating with new EBC rotors and pads
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2017, 04:31:07 pm »
Per Kawi Service Manual::

Brake Disc Warp Inspection
• Raise the front/rear wheel off the ground.
Special Tools - Jack: 57001-1238
○For front disc inspection, turn the handlebar fully to one
side.
• Set up a dial gauge against the disc [A] as shown and
measure disc runout, while turning the wheel by hand.
If runout exceeds the service limit, replace the disc.
Disc Runout
Standard: TIR 0.15 mm (0.006 in.) or less
Service Limit: TIR 0.3 mm (0.01 in.)

Online Bob H

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Re: Severe pulsating with new EBC rotors and pads
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2017, 04:47:13 pm »
Your new rotors don't look that bad.  The small variation you're measuring is likely due to the mounting surface on the hub.   I would not expect what you've shown to cause pulsing in the lever.  I've found that pulsing is most often caused by THICKNESS variation in the disk.  Thickness is usually hard to measure accurately due to wear grooves on used disks, but should be easy on your new ones.  I don't see a value listed for that in the service manual, but as best I can remember it should be well below .001 variation around the braking surface, probably more like .0005 variation from max to min.  You'll need a good micrometer to check that. 

Another possible cause, especially on new disks is oil or preservative left on the surfaces by manufacturing processing.  I'd try cleaning both sides of the rotors very carefully and see if that helps.
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Offline JMB

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Re: Severe pulsating with new EBC rotors and pads
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2017, 05:23:33 pm »
A few Thoughts:

Double check wheel and steering bearings

How is the rear rotor? Because of the linked brakes, you could be feeling some rear brake action?

Get rid of any "red" Loctite on any small bolt like that going into aluminum.
The factory had a "pink" Loctite on there. "Red" is way too excessive to use on anything going into aluminum unless you use heat and clean all of it out of threads. Red is designed for permanently holding bearings/bushings that are not readily dis-assembled

Offline Sailor Rich

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Re: Severe pulsating with new EBC rotors and pads
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2017, 06:20:55 pm »
 noticed the pulsation is now twice as bad as with the worn out stock rotors.

Possibly brake pistons sticking causing drag and rotor deflection to one side, building heat and vibration.
Fork alignment off. loosen the pinch bolts block the tire bounce the forks 5 or 6 times, tighten right then left.

A couple thoughts.

Offline Deepsea

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Re: Severe pulsating with new EBC rotors and pads
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2017, 11:01:52 pm »
At this point I'd go back to the basics. Check the master cylinder and calipers for proper function. If the disc's are ok that's all that's left.
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Offline jwh20

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Re: Severe pulsating with new EBC rotors and pads
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2017, 11:30:40 pm »
Well it's not runout.  Your gauge is less than 0.005" and the spec is < 0.006".
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Offline NYbiomed

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Re: Severe pulsating with new EBC rotors and pads
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2017, 10:28:47 pm »
Something to check:

I replaced my OEM rotors with the Chinese rotors they sell on eBay and used EBC pads. The result was VERY bad pulsing- dangerously so. I found out the rotors- although very nice machining, had a hub that was I estimate to be 3mm thicker than OEM and it was actually hitting my ABS sensor during braking. Take a look at your sensor, does it look like it was a scoured with sandpaper or have scratches of any kind? Anyway, I was able to shim the ABS sensor back with 2 washers, which took away 85/90% of the pulsation...it's still there, but livable.
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Offline ddialogue

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Re: Severe pulsating with new EBC rotors and pads
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2017, 12:57:02 pm »
Thank you all for your responses and suggestions.  I spent most of Saturday mounting, torquing, adjusting and checking the setup of the rotors but in the end it was to no avail as the rotors are still .005" and .003" out and the shudder under braking is severe.   >:(

I emailed EBC Customer Service with links to the videos and asked them for suggestions.  EBC replied asking for my mailing address so they can send warranty replacements.  I'll update this thread with the results once the warranty replacements are on.   Thanks.
Dave

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Offline ddialogue

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Re: Severe pulsating with new EBC rotors and pads
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2017, 01:55:53 am »
**UPDATE**

After EBC reached out to me, they sent me a set of warranty replacement rotors (which arrived two days after they contacted me.)  They also included a full set of replacement brake pads!  Woot!

While I had the wheel off again, I cleaned and replaced all the seals in the front calipers as well as installed a set of Speed Bleeders all the way around.  I'm happy to report that braking is very smooth now and I'm a very happy camper!  So, the first set of rotors I received must have been bad from the factory.

Now to figure out why my front brake is squishy... :)

Thanks all!
Dave

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Offline C. Moore

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Re: Severe pulsating with new EBC rotors and pads
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2017, 08:42:55 am »
Excellent, drive me nuts when something isn't right on my motorcycle. Good to know EBC responded so quickly.  :great:
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Offline seagiant1

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Re: Severe pulsating with new EBC rotors and pads
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2017, 12:31:33 pm »
Hi,
       Glad you came out of this ok, and good on EBC, but.... :great:

I can't help but wonder what was wrong with the Rotors if the run out was in spec??? :o

Seems, EBC knew something, though??? ;D ;D ;D
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Offline strum

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Re: Severe pulsating with new EBC rotors and pads
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2017, 03:33:11 pm »
**UPDATE**

After EBC reached out to me, they sent me a set of warranty replacement rotors (which arrived two days after they contacted me.)  They also included a full set of replacement brake pads!  Woot!

While I had the wheel off again, I cleaned and replaced all the seals in the front calipers as well as installed a set of Speed Bleeders all the way around.  I'm happy to report that braking is very smooth now and I'm a very happy camper!  So, the first set of rotors I received must have been bad from the factory.

Now to figure out why my front brake is squishy... :)
 

This is great news!! EBC came through on this. Good on them.
 Squishy you say?
  You have to revisit youre bleeding method. My vote is there still some air in the system.
Thanks all!
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Offline TimR

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Re: Severe pulsating with new EBC rotors and pads
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2017, 06:47:03 pm »
Quote
Now to figure out why my front brake is squishy... :)

Mine worked much better after bleeding the master.
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