Concours Owners Group (COG) Forum

COG Industry Members => Shoodaben Engineering => Topic started by: strum on December 03, 2017, 04:17:47 pm

Title: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: strum on December 03, 2017, 04:17:47 pm
   Steve has been working diligently on this flash version for a while and he just unveiled it on his site.
    I had the pleasure of being one of the beta testers for him and I can tell you guys this is the most refined flash so far.
   By refined I mean this was not a flash and forget type of test .  I started with the EVO and to me I thought that was it. I couldn't imagine anything better.
   Then I tested the MR (not sure what version)
   I live up here in the North Ga mountains and we have no shortage of elevation changes and twistys so you get to shift quiet a bit.
  That said I put this thing through some rigorous riding with the goal of giving usable feedback that Steve could rely on and tweak .
    I even gave myself a car sick feeling one time when hammering wolfpen gap in different gears and different speeds. I didnt know that was possible lol.
   Steve told me to stop that and ride it normal  :-[
     I was totally satisfied with it but after speaking to him he reflashed my ecu again with some extra tweaks .
     Again I was satisfied but he wasn't and he was right because it came back better still.
     Ok whats better you ask?
     We have all been aware of the drive line snatch or whatever you wanna call it on the C14 from day one.
     Each flash it got smoother and for me up here in the mountains the shifting is now snatch free in every gear.
     Entering curves the decell properties allow me to roll off the throttle using much less brake and get back on with confidence having
      a smooth roll on that powers out with authority.
     I notice power down low in any gear is much stronger. This gives the ability to pull corners up hill in higher gears than previously needed.
     If your the type to tractor the hills and curves then this will put a smile on your face.
     As far as riding two up and just looking to ride smooth and clean. You have to work for it now . Its there.
    No helmet clanking.
     Fuel economy is much improved from stock too.
     I could go on and on but Ill let some of the other guys chime in.
     I do want to say thank you Steve for allowing me to test and continuing to make the C14 better than it ever was.
             
   
     
   
   
   
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: gpd323 on December 03, 2017, 05:53:05 pm
I get to try out the most recent MR also this week. Will chime in with impressions, I liked the original MR BTW but Steve said he improved the up shifting sensations.
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Skiee on December 03, 2017, 07:47:06 pm
Well, I guess it's time to upgrade from the decel to MR flash!!!

Norm
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: ZXtasy on December 03, 2017, 08:42:06 pm
It is sunny and 50 here today and my ECU is in transit....sucks!!! OH WELL,
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Nodesurfer on December 03, 2017, 09:40:23 pm
I haven't had a chance to take it up into any elevations yet, nor do anything more than maybe 30 miles of interstate riding. But after a full week of riding to work, and a few times of just out joyriding and exploring the MR flash, I am very impressed. The performance is outstanding, for sure. And the around town MPG has gone from about 35.5 to almost 40.5, and that was with quite a bit of throttle twisting as I continue to explore the new power. I do look for and enjoy every opportunity to dive into an exit ramp or an on ramp and power my way around a curve, and have done a little backroad riding. I went out for an 80 mile ride today and only wound it up a few times, otherwise I was just cruising. As you can see in the picture in the link below, I went over 80 miles and have not yet lost a bar on the fuel gauge. That was with a fresh tank of Sunnoco 93 octane. That's very nice.

We also have a couple of places around here that offer ethanol free gas and I think I may be having a chance to fill up with that on a group ride planned for next Saturday.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1D3oeSHT0yM8fkwjXLV_7LWUpxWnOizEG/view?usp=drivesdk
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Nodesurfer on December 03, 2017, 09:42:25 pm
The red light is due to my TPMS batteries being low.
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Just Cliff on December 03, 2017, 09:55:59 pm
Looks like I may need to send mine back sometime over this winter for a re-flash. Hard to believe the EVO can be improved, but I'm willing to try!  :motonoises:

Cliff   :beerchug:
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: strum on December 03, 2017, 10:34:27 pm
Cliff I was scepitcal at first because I was so happy with the evo.  But it is an improvement and worth doing.
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Jerdurr on December 04, 2017, 02:24:35 pm
Steve, I'm starting to toy with the idea of doing the flash, but i'm trying to understand; is this an improvement over the EVO, or is this a totally different function?

Do your flashes avoid the engine "on-off" sensation by removing the valve closure when off the throttle?

would love to hear more about how this works, as to know exactly which Flash is best for me.

thank you! ;)
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on December 04, 2017, 03:52:49 pm
Steve, I'm starting to toy with the idea of doing the flash, but i'm trying to understand; is this an improvement over the EVO, or is this a totally different function?
thank you! ;)


   I'm not sure I understand the question.  I posted previously on other threads about tunes having different personalities. The amount of deceleration / engine braking being different, as an example. This is the first flash that I didn't build based on what I like (in Florida, IE Flatistan) but that I built based on beta tester feedback. Beta testers in different parts of the country with different riding styles. To me, for my style EVO didn't need an improvement, but I'm not riding the same terrain and style as others. Mountain Runner is my response to customer requests and input. I hope this answers your question.

  As far as how it feels on / off throttle, ask the guys who are riding on it... like these 2 guys.

 http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-14-zg1400-general-chat-and-tech/just-received-my-freshly-flashed-2009-c-14-ecu/ (http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-14-zg1400-general-chat-and-tech/just-received-my-freshly-flashed-2009-c-14-ecu/)

  http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-14-zg1400-general-chat-and-tech/shoodaben-engineering-(steves-top-secret-flash)/ (http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-14-zg1400-general-chat-and-tech/shoodaben-engineering-(steves-top-secret-flash)/)

  Steve
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: ron203 on December 04, 2017, 03:55:22 pm
Steve, I'm starting to toy with the idea of doing the flash, but i'm trying to understand; is this an improvement over the EVO, or is this a totally different function?

Do your flashes avoid the engine "on-off" sensation by removing the valve closure when off the throttle?

would love to hear more about how this works, as to know exactly which Flash is best for me.

thank you! ;)

Great questions. If you look on SISF's website, you'll find most if not all of the answers. HTH.
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: smithr1 on December 04, 2017, 08:14:31 pm
EDIT:   I do not have the latest version of this flash.  This is what I wanted it to do for ME....

As a beta tester I was looking for the bike to not lurch as hard when going from throttle off to throttle barely on as I try to settle the bike after braking and before starting the hard part of the lean.  I found the bike lurching and upsetting the smooth entry into the corner.

PS:  The OEM flash and the EVO flash I felt was to abrupt on and off.  The new lash helps this some.
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on December 04, 2017, 09:04:04 pm
As a beta tester I was looking for the bike to not lurch as hard when going from throttle off to throttle barely on as I try to settle the bike after braking and before starting the hard part of the lean.  I found the bike lurching and upsetting the smooth entry into the corner.

PS:  The OEM flash and the EVO flash I felt was to abrupt on and off.  The new lash helps this some.

  I guess building something with beta testers is like making sausage... the sausage is good, but making it, not so much. Yes, Bob did start off in the beta program, but due to getting married, etc he really wasn't able to take advantage of the updates or give feedback. I actually made 32 more versions after the one Bob had. I have been working on this Flash, since July, and actually loaded the first one, the same as Bob had, on Aug 10. Steve
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Throttle 8 on December 05, 2017, 12:54:08 am
So what are the differences between the original Decel flash and this one?
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on December 05, 2017, 01:29:19 am
So what are the differences between the original Decel flash and this one?

Mountain Runner started with the Evolution flash and built from there. Evolution was entirely different than the previous flashes in how the secondaries were being used as a tuning tool. Mountain runner takes the theory applied in Evolution to a hyper level. This in turn let me make fuel and timing changes for more economy. It wasn't my original goal, but hey, I'll take it   ;)

ETA  -This flash really is diametrically opposed to the theory that the secondaries are just in the way and should be eliminated from the airstream as soon as possible. A couple years ago that was the dogma. it was wrong then, and this flash really proves it. Steve
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Jerdurr on December 05, 2017, 01:38:56 am
Steve, I'm starting to toy with the idea of doing the flash, but i'm trying to understand; is this an improvement over the EVO, or is this a totally different function?
thank you! ;)


   I'm not sure I understand the question.  I posted previously on other threads about tunes having different personalities. The amount of deceleration / engine braking being different, as an example. This is the first flash that I didn't build based on what I like (in Florida, IE Flatistan) but that I built based on beta tester feedback. Beta testers in different parts of the country with different riding styles. To me, for my style EVO didn't need an improvement, but I'm not riding the same terrain and style as others. Mountain Runner is my response to customer requests and input. I hope this answers your question.

  As far as how it feels on / off throttle, ask the guys who are riding on it... like these 2 guys.

 [url]http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-14-zg1400-general-chat-and-tech/just-received-my-freshly-flashed-2009-c-14-ecu/[/url] ([url]http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-14-zg1400-general-chat-and-tech/just-received-my-freshly-flashed-2009-c-14-ecu/[/url])

  [url]http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-14-zg1400-general-chat-and-tech/shoodaben-engineering-(steves-top-secret-flash)/[/url] ([url]http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-14-zg1400-general-chat-and-tech/shoodaben-engineering-(steves-top-secret-flash)/[/url])

  Steve

Steve, thanks for your response; Let me clarify. I hate the way the stock ECU makes the bike lurch when going on the throttle, due to the "closed loop" or whatever is called, when the engine is basically shut off (injectors closed i believe? not an expert, please correct me) when off the throttle to improve emissions. Sometimes if you go at a certain low speed in a low gear it acts as a friggin bronco! not cool.

My question is, (and yes, I did read your site but didn't find the response to my ? there), is this annoying trait of the stock flash removed? or better yet, does your Evo flash (i think i'm into the Evo, from what i have read in the forum) fix this extremely annoying behaviour, by removing this gas saving gremlin? I really hate it as you can see.

Thanks Steve!
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on December 05, 2017, 02:41:03 am

Steve, thanks for your response; Let me clarify. I hate the way the stock ECU makes the bike lurch when going on the throttle, due to the "closed loop" or whatever is called, when the engine is basically shut off (injectors closed i believe? not an expert, please correct me) when off the throttle to improve emissions. Sometimes if you go at a certain low speed in a low gear it acts as a friggin bronco! not cool.

My question is, (and yes, I did read your site but didn't find the response to my ? there), is this annoying trait of the stock flash removed? or better yet, does your Evo flash (i think i'm into the Evo, from what i have read in the forum) fix this extremely annoying behaviour, by removing this gas saving gremlin? I really hate it as you can see.

Thanks Steve!
 

Well as I previously posted, I was really happy with the evo flash for the type of riding I do. But I built my flashes with throttle cables that were properly set up, and as I worked through the flashes I wasn't having the issues some folks apparently had. I take pride in my work as I feel it represents me so if there's things folks don't like I don't just say "take it or leave it" I go back to work to satisfy any criticisms. As it turns out, during the course of building Mountain Runner I actually caught the lurchy throttle issue some folks report as being slow TPS (throttle position sensor) response. I posted that on the forum, and some folks tried the throttle cable adjustment and reported great results (see the thread "you need to read this"). Regardless, one individual kept tossing out what you're referring to, that being deceleration fuel cut. What was summarily dismissed in that discussion  is something another member brought up, which is that fuel cut had an important impact on deceleration / engine braking qualities. I personally don't feel that fuel cut in and of itself is a huge tuning issue, In fact I think with some forethought it can be made to work FOR the tuner, if he's willing to put in the work.

  Let's keep in mind that the same individual pushing the fuel cut theory is the same person who started off by pushing how fast and powerful another tuners flash is... until we see that on the dyno mine made actually a bit more power, and my tune drove a stock Concours to 182.013 mph on a timed run. No other tuner can claim that, so they have to try to throw out straw man arguments to try to "win over" customers. I have been working on a tuning the c-14 for 2.5 years now, and always strive to improve. Ride one of my flashes on a properly set up bike before you fall for the sales gimmicks, you may (will) be surprised. Steve
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Throttle 8 on December 05, 2017, 03:15:20 am
Thanks for the info Steve. I have been extremely happy with the Decel flash, and couldn't see myself with the Evolution flash because I absolutely love the engine braking when diving into a curve and am unwilling to give it up. (Side note: I didn't realize how strong the Decel was until I rode in a group ride last month. The guy on a Goldwing behind me asked over the intercom if he could ride in front of me because every time I closed the throttle my bike slowed down so fast  that he had to grab a handful of brake!)
If this Mountain flash is a Decel flash with a steroid infusion I may have to get an update (at a Ralley next year---because I cannot deal with stoopid customs people any more--lol!) :beerchug:
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Devasya on December 05, 2017, 03:53:55 am
My thoughts after a brief ride.

NO editing.

https://youtu.be/nes3kRwMhVA (https://youtu.be/nes3kRwMhVA)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nes3kRwMhVA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nes3kRwMhVA)
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: gsun on December 05, 2017, 04:04:54 am
Interesting comment on the pull in 6th at 6K RPM.

https://youtu.be/nes3kRwMhVA
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on December 05, 2017, 11:14:06 am
Interesting comment on the pull in 6th at 6K RPM.

Yes, it is, particularly because at that point the flash is all "Evolution" and it's crazy strong in that area. I'd like to know more about the test conditions, weather wise.

  David - thanks for the video. I reviewed my gearing / speed chart, you were going 140 mph when you shifter from 5th to 6th. How did the bike do pulling through that RPM area in 5th? Also do you know you elevation, and you said it was 37* and damp... do you know the humidity? Have you ever done this on the bike with the stock ECU and same weather conditions?

  David, I found the info for Port Orchard, Wa.

  Barometer - 30.6"
  Dew point - 34*
  Air Temp - 36*
  Humidity - 96%
  Elevation - 72'

  correction factor - 109.5. so your bike should make 9.5% MORE power than my bike here on the dyno in Fl. that being the case, you would have 165 + HP... your bike should be lofting the front wheel easily through 3rd gear. But I bet it's not. Here's why...

    The ECU has a correction factor built in, and it's supplying much more fuel at that temp / barometer. This, in combination with the windchill effect on the cooling system being 18* at 70 mph and 13* at 140 mph is going to mean the cylinder / piston / head temps are really to cold for efficient combustion. The coolant is being pulled down to the 36* level very rapidly. The Thermastat will try to stall coolant circulation, but it's doubtful the engine can generate enough heat to stay at proper running temps even without much coolant circulation. The end result is going to be a large power loss, and pouring raw, unburned hydrocarbons out the tailpipe.

  This is the same effect as starting a cold engine, and why carbs need chokes and EFI needs cold start fuel enrichment, because of the combustion inefficiency of a cold engine.
 
    Now IF the engine could be kept at 200* or so, and that cold intake charge wasn't quenching the combustion process, you'ld be up there in the 165 hp level. Sadly, it doesn't work that way.

   Welcome to internal combustion engines, where there are very few free lunches  :??: Steve

 
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Jerdurr on December 05, 2017, 02:03:13 pm

Steve, thanks for your response; Let me clarify. I hate the way the stock ECU makes the bike lurch when going on the throttle, due to the "closed loop" or whatever is called, when the engine is basically shut off (injectors closed i believe? not an expert, please correct me) when off the throttle to improve emissions. Sometimes if you go at a certain low speed in a low gear it acts as a friggin bronco! not cool.

My question is, (and yes, I did read your site but didn't find the response to my ? there), is this annoying trait of the stock flash removed? or better yet, does your Evo flash (i think i'm into the Evo, from what i have read in the forum) fix this extremely annoying behaviour, by removing this gas saving gremlin? I really hate it as you can see.

Thanks Steve!
 

Well as I previously posted, I was really happy with the evo flash for the type of riding I do. But I built my flashes with throttle cables that were properly set up, and as I worked through the flashes I wasn't having the issues some folks apparently had. I take pride in my work as I feel it represents me so if there's things folks don't like I don't just say "take it or leave it" I go back to work to satisfy any criticisms. As it turns out, during the course of building Mountain Runner I actually caught the lurchy throttle issue some folks report as being slow TPS (throttle position sensor) response. I posted that on the forum, and some folks tried the throttle cable adjustment and reported great results (see the thread "you need to read this"). Regardless, one individual kept tossing out what you're referring to, that being deceleration fuel cut. What was summarily dismissed in that discussion  is something another member brought up, which is that fuel cut had an important impact on deceleration / engine braking qualities. I personally don't feel that fuel cut in and of itself is a huge tuning issue, In fact I think with some forethought it can be made to work FOR the tuner, if he's willing to put in the work.

  Let's keep in mind that the same individual pushing the fuel cut theory is the same person who started off by pushing how fast and powerful another tuners flash is... until we see that on the dyno mine made actually a bit more power, and my tune drove a stock Concours to 182.013 mph on a timed run. No other tuner can claim that, so they have to try to throw out straw man arguments to try to "win over" customers. I have been working on a tuning the c-14 for 2.5 years now, and always strive to improve. Ride one of my flashes on a properly set up bike before you fall for the sales gimmicks, you may (will) be surprised. Steve

Steve, let me clarify something, in case i may have given you the wrong impression; I'm just a potential customer, trying to figure out if your flash would work for me. I'm sorry if my questions ticked you the wrong way, but there's no hidden intents or agenda behind what I was asking, hence I'm not interested in the comparisons between your Flash and whichever individual you were talking about. I haven't fallen for any sales gimmicks, otherwise I would already have my ECU flashed, and I wouldn't be here asking you this questions as an interested potential customer of your product.

Right now my bike is stock, no flashes of any kind, nor do I work for any other "individual". I am relaying this issue to you (fuel cut lurch) because it is a true and damn annoying issue on my motorcycle. I did read your post on throttle cables adjustment when it came out (you need to read this), but I'm also aware that the fuel cut can be flash-removed, hence my question to know whether this annoying (in my opinion) function was removed on your EVO flash.

I do enjoy some minor decel with the engine braking due to fuel cut, but the lurches it causes at small speeds are ridiculous. I get from your response that no, you do not remove the fuel cut, but make it work in your favor in both EVO and MR flashes, as long as the throttle cables are adjusted, is this correct?
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Devasya on December 05, 2017, 02:19:54 pm
It was pulling like a mule in 5th and all the other gears. I was impressed particularly by how linear it felt and how my memory of the OEM map was that there had been a  step or that the behavior changed a bit in the mid range in the way many I4 motors like to do, particularly carburetor bikes, and that was now gone.

I cannot imagine what would be different from 5th gear to 6th gear as far as power effects from weather/conditions. Seems like it should slow down on the acceleration rate a little just because of power/gearing. So to me the most likely thing is that I was simply not being careful enough in my controls and data collection.

 Again, I would not want to make a big deal out of this brief test and I plan to get another run at it asap. I will see if I can put a gopro on the dash and provide some more info on the conditions. FYI I was on Banner  Road headed south toward Gig harbor from Port Orchard just south of the Banner Woods. Google maps will show the location and the road.

My concern was not really how fast i was able to go, but that it felt as if the bike was intentionally self- limiting.

One time a few years ago I was riding a CBR1100XX on US 101 near Hoodsport when a deer ran out and t-boned me on the left side. He hit my left hand with his deer skull and his body swung around, missed my leg, and hit the rear of the bike. Pushed me over the fog line into the narrow dirt strip but I saved it. My clutch lever broke off (and my left pinkie was shattered. hurt like hell) and I was far from home. I didn't stop. I realized I had to keep riding because there is no one I can call to save me. The thing was, a piece of plastic from the fairing had come loose and when I went over about 30 mph it flapped and covered one of the air inlet ports on the Blackbird and robbed all the power so that it felt as if something was wrong with the engine when in reality it was starved for air. The subjective feeling of losing power, and the rpm wanting to fall back down was sort of the same.

My Spidey Senses are telling me that when I get a real run at this,  perhaps on US 104 headed out toward Port Angeles between 19 and 101 where it gets wide open and you can see for miles and I  know how my bike behaves (hauls serious, unimpeded a**) I will find there is no issue. I think I can do that tomorrow if I take the afternoon off, because, why not, right?
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on December 05, 2017, 02:33:23 pm

Steve, let me clarify something, in case i may have given you the wrong impression; I'm just a potential customer, trying to figure out if your flash would work for me. I'm sorry if my questions ticked you the wrong way, but there's no hidden intents or agenda behind what I was asking, hence I'm not interested in the comparisons between your Flash and whichever individual you were talking about. I haven't fallen for any sales gimmicks, otherwise I would already have my ECU flashed, and I wouldn't be here asking you this questions as an interested potential customer of your product.

Right now my bike is stock, no flashes of any kind, nor do I work for any other "individual". I am relaying this issue to you (fuel cut lurch) because it is a true and damn annoying issue on my motorcycle. I did read your post on throttle cables adjustment when it came out (you need to read this), but I'm also aware that the fuel cut can be flash-removed, hence my question to know whether this annoying (in my opinion) function was removed on your EVO flash.

I do enjoy some minor decel with the engine braking due to fuel cut, but the lurches it causes at small speeds are ridiculous. I get from your response that no, you do not remove the fuel cut, but make it work in your favor in both EVO and MR flashes, as long as the throttle cables are adjusted, is this correct?

  Man, this stuff is getting complicated. I'm not ticked, and I don't think you're working for / with another person. I understand that you're asking an honest question, and I'm trying to give an honest answer.

  The fact is, as I stated, that I USE fuel cut as part of the deceleration control. Let me help you understand how fuel cut works for you.

   Either do this test, or just think of how your bike acts in this situation... you're on a long deceleration, throttle closed. Maybe going downhill, maybe a long coast to a light in traffic. Have you ever noticed that for no reason the bike stops decelerating and almost feels like you've given it some throttle? Where it has more of a feeling of coasting in neutral with no drag rather than actually decelerating? I have felt that in the stock ECU, and others I've asked about it have felt the same thing.

   Here's what's going on. As the bike is deceling with no fuel, you feel substantial engine braking. When the ECU supplies fuel in this condition (which it does for the catalytic converters) the engine starts making power, and the engine braking is gone or severely limited. Remove the fuel cut, and this will be the effect, a great loss of engine braking.  I know, because that was the primary complaint about my original flash, that it needed more deceleration.  In fact in my Decel flash, I achieved greater deceleration by cutting more fuel from closed throttle operation vs my original flash. If it was that bad, guys like Throttle8 (posted above) would be wanting to ditch their decel flashes as soon as they put them in. That was never the case though.

   Mountain runner takes a completely different approach there, and honestly the guys who are riding it are reporting NO abruptness coming back on throttle, but there is still very usable off throttle engine braking.

  If I were you, I would start out by doing the throttle cable adjustment I outlined and see if that doesn't resolve some of the low throttle issue for you. Then you'll start to see the direction I'm going with all this.

  I hope this fully answers your question.

 Steve
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Jerdurr on December 05, 2017, 02:44:38 pm

Steve, let me clarify something, in case i may have given you the wrong impression; I'm just a potential customer, trying to figure out if your flash would work for me. I'm sorry if my questions ticked you the wrong way, but there's no hidden intents or agenda behind what I was asking, hence I'm not interested in the comparisons between your Flash and whichever individual you were talking about. I haven't fallen for any sales gimmicks, otherwise I would already have my ECU flashed, and I wouldn't be here asking you this questions as an interested potential customer of your product.

Right now my bike is stock, no flashes of any kind, nor do I work for any other "individual". I am relaying this issue to you (fuel cut lurch) because it is a true and damn annoying issue on my motorcycle. I did read your post on throttle cables adjustment when it came out (you need to read this), but I'm also aware that the fuel cut can be flash-removed, hence my question to know whether this annoying (in my opinion) function was removed on your EVO flash.

I do enjoy some minor decel with the engine braking due to fuel cut, but the lurches it causes at small speeds are ridiculous. I get from your response that no, you do not remove the fuel cut, but make it work in your favor in both EVO and MR flashes, as long as the throttle cables are adjusted, is this correct?

  Man, this stuff is getting complicated. I'm not ticked, and I don't think you're working for / with another person. I understand that you're asking an honest question, and I'm trying to give an honest answer.

  The fact is, as I stated, that I USE fuel cut as part of the deceleration control. Let me help you understand how fuel cut works for you.

   Either do this test, or just think of how your bike acts in this situation... you're on a long deceleration, throttle closed. Maybe going downhill, maybe a long coast to a light in traffic. Have you ever noticed that for no reason the bike stops decelerating and almost feels like you've given it some throttle? Where it has more of a feeling of coasting in neutral with no drag rather than actually decelerating? I have felt that in the stock ECU, and others I've asked about it have felt the same thing.

   Here's what's going on. As the bike is deceling with no fuel, you feel substantial engine braking. When the ECU supplies fuel in this condition (which it does for the catalytic converters) the engine starts making power, and the engine braking is gone or severely limited. Remove the fuel cut, and this will be the effect, a great loss of engine braking.  I know, because that was the primary complaint about my original flash, that it needed more deceleration.  In fact in my Decel flash, I achieved greater deceleration by cutting more fuel from closed throttle operation vs my original flash. If it was that bad, guys like Throttle8 (posted above) would be wanting to ditch their decel flashes as soon as they put them in. That was never the case though.

   Mountain runner takes a completely different approach there, and honestly the guys who are riding it are reporting NO abruptness coming back on throttle, but there is still very usable off throttle engine braking.

  If I were you, I would start out by doing the throttle cable adjustment I outlined and see if that doesn't resolve some of the low throttle issue for you. Then you'll start to see the direction I'm going with all this.

  I hope this fully answers your question.

 Steve

it does, thanks Steve, and glad you weren't ticked :)
Appreciate your response and enlightenment, since as you can see, I'm an amateur when it comes to mechanics, flashing and fuel mapping. Here in Toronto, my go-to flash would probably be the Evo; there are some hills here, but wouldn't justify the new mountain flash. I will do the throttle cable adjustment this weekend and take it for a spin. I will also take my action camera with me, and see if I can show you that stupid binary engine behaviour that drives me crazy! would it make any difference on that the fact that i have a 2 Brothers slip on installed on my Connie?
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on December 05, 2017, 02:54:47 pm

it does, thanks Steve, and glad you weren't ticked :)
Appreciate your response and enlightenment, since as you can see, I'm an amateur when it comes to mechanics, flashing and fuel mapping. Here in Toronto, my go-to flash would probably be the Evo; there are some hills here, but wouldn't justify the new mountain flash. I will do the throttle cable adjustment this weekend and take it for a spin. I will also take my action camera with me, and see if I can show you that stupid binary engine behaviour that drives me crazy! would it make any difference on that the fact that i have a 2 Brothers slip on installed on my Connie?

  You don't need to do any go pro work I know exactly what you're talking about. As far as the slip on... slip ons actually reduce some of the engine braking due to less back pressure. it's not alot, but it's there.

  BTW, I just mentioned to my wife that trying to explain what the flash feels like is kind of like trying to tell a blind person what blue looks like, or tell a man what having a baby is like. Yeah, we have words, but they just don't get the job done. Steve
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: strum on December 05, 2017, 03:08:06 pm
  I spent a lot of time testing the this and collaborating back and forth with Steve.  I was focused on mountain riding characteristics so I never tried top speeds.
  I did do a couple of drag race style holeshots running it through the first 4 or 5 gears with out letting up . just fanning the clutch. I never felt any power losses there but i think the wide open throttle part of tuning isnt effected with the flash anyway.  the only time i ever tried top speeds was way before i had the flash and as i remember I hit 150 mph shifted into 6th and had to get out of it. I may be wrong here but i think it remember reading that 6th doesn't roll top speeds dramatically because its more of an overdrive and tested top speeds are done in 5th. There again i may be totally off here.
  Any way that wasnt my focus when testing the MR flash.
  I did find the decel to be different than the evo . I never ran the "decel" flash so i cant compare that but i really like the MR decel.
   Im talking running roads like wolf pen gap, richard russell and the dragon and running as hard as I can with the rpms up (multiple gear ranges but a lot of 3rd and 4th)
  When approaching a corner the decel feels to me like I have a bungee tied to me thats holding me back progressively like it getting stretched (more and more holdback) and when i start rolling back on its the opposite , power coming on very smooth but with authority and the bungee is letting me go .
  For me the shifting in all the gears are much smoother.This something I was focusing on .  So when guys say they cant tell any difference im at a loss.
  We have to remember we are riding a beast so lets not confuse raw power in shifting with jerking. there is some trades offs here when tuning so as I understand it Steve has to really tune a fine line here. If he backs out (delays) power in an certain area for instance to please me this could give the feeling of power loss for someone else. its really not power loss , just a change of feel. there are guys who run roads that they like to stay in 5th and 6th gear so he has tune in low rpm high gear power .  Its a job and im glad its him not me lol.
 
   
   
   
   
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Throttle 8 on December 05, 2017, 08:01:43 pm

[/quote]

it does, thanks Steve, and glad you weren't ticked :)
Appreciate your response and enlightenment, since as you can see, I'm an amateur when it comes to mechanics, flashing and fuel mapping. Here in Toronto, my go-to flash would probably be the Evo; there are some hills here, but wouldn't justify the new mountain flash. I will do the throttle cable adjustment this weekend and take it for a spin. I will also take my action camera with me, and see if I can show you that stupid binary engine behaviour that drives me crazy! would it make any difference on that the fact that i have a 2 Brothers slip on installed on my Connie?
[/quote]

I am in Sudbury----next spring we should meet up around Huntsville for a ride. I guarantee you will be sold on Steve's improvements. His Decel flash, and an Area P slipon have turned my bike from a great bike into a beast. I am following intently because I honestly didn't think he would ever be able to improve on his Decel flash.
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: kd4pop on December 06, 2017, 12:11:19 am
To all just get the flash done, it will be the best money you have spent on the bike. You can sit here all night and make post about this. There is 56 post on this subject already(REALLY) Quit being cheap and get it done. :motonoises:. Bottom line
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: rrsperry on December 06, 2017, 12:42:56 am
Hey Steve, would I still need to keep the O2 sensors disconnected?
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Motodoc on December 06, 2017, 12:51:18 am
 :))  I get my ecu back tomorrow with the MR and I can't wait.  I'll post after I ride with my impressions.  Steve was GREAT to deal with and made the deal easy.
I'll repost after I ride.  I live in Chattanooga TN and ride lots of elevation changes and twistys.  I love my '08, I've only had it for 6 months or so, but I've always hated the herky jerky throttle on/off.
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on December 06, 2017, 01:08:42 am
Hey Steve, would I still need to keep the O2 sensors disconnected?

No, i was recommending that before in an "abundance of caution" because it can't be wrong. but the 02 sensors are shut off so connected or disconnected doesn't matter. Steve
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on December 06, 2017, 01:11:25 am
To all just get the flash done, it will be the best money you have spent on the bike. You can sit here all night and make post about this. There is 56 post on this subject already(REALLY) Quit being cheap and get it done. :motonoises:. Bottom line

  One thing that's glaringly evident, and we see it even in THIS thread, is that the guys who have the flash say "get it" and the guys who have never experienced my work are fretting about every little imagined issue.  >:(  Steve
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Nodesurfer on December 06, 2017, 01:55:01 am
I will say GET IT as well, but unfortunately for me, it's rain today and for the rest of the week. So the next chance I may get to ride will be Sunday, which is predicted to be sunny with a high of 42. And I can guarantee that I will bundle up, head out there, and loft the front wheel a few times and find some twisties to play on. Until then, she sits in the garaged, spit-shined from top to bottom, all dressed up and nowhere to go.

Recent picture:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uuFHiynebdPEAQVAy78NfBHA8GM58DpR/view?usp=sharing
 
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: kv5e on December 06, 2017, 03:11:53 pm
If anyone receives "unsolicited" PMs and does not want them, there are options:

1. Delete them
2. Respond to the submitter and ask them to stop
3. Report them in a thread and/ or to a moderator
4. Your forum profile allows you disable receiving PM messages or email messages.

7- Advertising - Any subscriber may advertise motorcycle related products and services in the relevant COG Mart section of the forum. Industry Members only may ‘reference’ their products/services in a relevant reply to a thread, any advertising should be done as an afterthought to providing members genuine help or assistance.

Use of PM messages targeted toward a specific product from a competing thread is not considered good netiquette.

I would ask those surreptitiously doing this to refrain and post your own thread(s).

If you have a specific product you are enthusiastic about, then you should be able to gain interest and market share using the forum threads dedicated to the product you *recommend*.

Please, "DON'T GAME THE SYSTEM".

Consider becoming an Industry Member and being forthright and above board in your dealings with the COG Members and Forum Subscribers.

I am not showing favoritism here, just asking for adherence to forum decorum.

Cordially,

Craig
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Smitty on December 06, 2017, 04:11:11 pm
Steve, if he actually used your product he would know that the dyno tables are not faked...to preoccupied with fuel cut  :))
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: rcannon409 on December 06, 2017, 04:26:25 pm
I am a customer of Ivan, and thats it.no commision, check, or discount.

I paid full price,  plus shipping, for all the work ive had him do to both my bikes.  In fact, theres another thread showing my receipt.

At worst, im a crazy Ivans  customer, but any opinion posted, or pm'ed is mine alone and has nothing to do with Ivan.
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: kv5e on December 06, 2017, 04:37:18 pm
I am a customer of Ivan, and thats it.no commision, check, or discount.

I paid full price,  plus shipping, for all the work ive had him do to both my bikes.  In fact, theres another thread showing my receipt.

At worst, im a crazy Ivans  customer, but any opinion posted, or pm'ed is mine alone and has nothing to do with Ivan.

Fine, prospective customers for any product should not be picked off by PM activity by anyone unless solicited by the poster.

Rather than be confrontational in an existing thread, start your own.  Confrontational is defined as repeated responses to someone attempting to "pin them down" on an argument about specific features that they may decline to not answer or discuss.

Crazy Ivan's may have a great product, expound that product in your recommendations by a way that is positive. That is all the moderation staff is asking.

Repeated and unsolicited PMing of a specific product to participants for a competing product will not be tolerated.

Posters are not "fair game" for you Sir to PM unless they ask to be contacted. Have I made my self clear here?

Cordially,

Craig
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: connie_rider on December 06, 2017, 05:04:27 pm
To all just get the flash done, it will be the best money you have spent on the bike. You can sit here all night and make post about this. There is 56 post on this subject already(REALLY) Quit being cheap and get it done. :motonoises:. Bottom line

  One thing that's glaringly evident, and we see it even in THIS thread, is that the guys who have the flash say "get it" and the guys who have never experienced my work are fretting about every little imagined issue.  >:(  Steve

Err,, getting back to the subject.

I understand that the folks {that don't have one of Steve's Flashes} want to ask questions.
  Yes, they can go back and read the countless posts about how well they work..
  But,,,, the idea of a Forum is to discuss things...
         So, let's discuss their questions, and help them make a decision.

After they become one of the "enlightened" and buy,,,
   I'm sure they'll be here,, answering the same questions for the next guys..  :great:
         and saying,,, "quit asking questions and buy"!!!
                                  :)

PS: For those that are trying to decide which of his Flash's to buy,,,
           "They are all good"..
               You will NOT be disappointed.
                   "Now, quit asking questions and buy one"!!    <evil grin>

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Jerdurr on December 06, 2017, 05:06:22 pm


it does, thanks Steve, and glad you weren't ticked :)
Appreciate your response and enlightenment, since as you can see, I'm an amateur when it comes to mechanics, flashing and fuel mapping. Here in Toronto, my go-to flash would probably be the Evo; there are some hills here, but wouldn't justify the new mountain flash. I will do the throttle cable adjustment this weekend and take it for a spin. I will also take my action camera with me, and see if I can show you that stupid binary engine behaviour that drives me crazy! would it make any difference on that the fact that i have a 2 Brothers slip on installed on my Connie?
[/quote]

I am in Sudbury----next spring we should meet up around Huntsville for a ride. I guarantee you will be sold on Steve's improvements. His Decel flash, and an Area P slipon have turned my bike from a great bike into a beast. I am following intently because I honestly didn't think he would ever be able to improve on his Decel flash.
[/quote]
sounds like a plan!!
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Throttle 8 on December 06, 2017, 05:16:34 pm
Two Brothers is a good slipon---you won't have any issues with the flash; it will actually stop most of the decel pop you are getting now. I still have just a little with my Area P (but I like it and don't want to get rid of it-lol!).
The 5-0 will definitely hear us when we get on it next spring on Southwood Rd, or the Hockley Valley. :D
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Devasya on December 06, 2017, 11:47:04 pm
Just got back from a better test ride of the MR flash. My initial thoughts about 6th gear hesitation were not validated. Today at about 49 degrees, clear blue sky, it ran through the rpm range in 6th no problemo. NO hesitation at all and it felt really strong.

Noticed also a good mpg increase on the order of 8%-10% in normal mode.

Put up a new vid with updated comments. https://youtu.be/8LYXoETsfFM

I hate to be all "me too" but this is IMO totally worth it. It would feel odd to go back to the OEM behavior. It would feel quirky now I think.

So, me too. (but not #metoo) you know... :)
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Motodoc on December 09, 2017, 09:41:16 pm
 :-\  Finally got to ride my bike with the MR flash.  DAMN, what a difference!!!  Everything previously stated about this flash is spot on and, even got a December discount.  I shelled out a few extra shekels for overnight and I got it back the next day!  Steve called me right after I emailed him, we discussed pros and cons and set up the shipment.  Easy process but the results are FANTASTIC!  I rode with my buddy that has a '12 and I pulled away from him the first time I rolled into it.  It's everything stated and more, I absolutely love it.
My 2 cents worth and a very satisfied customer.  And...I got a decal!
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: connie_rider on December 09, 2017, 10:32:43 pm
Motodoc /others, we need details.
  Did you previously have a Flash?
  Did the 12 have a Flash?
  Were both bike set up the same (slip-on / etc wise)?
  Have you compared with that 12 before?

  Nice that it could accell better,, but, was it better in the twisties?

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Motodoc on December 10, 2017, 01:21:36 am
I have a Scorpion slip on, other than that it's bone stock until this flash.  My buddies '12 is stock other than a VH slip-on.  What I noticed today:  I pulled away from him as soon as I rolled into the throttle moderately hard.  The low end, beginning at about 3700 rpm's, pulls with a LOT more torque (I'm talking lean forward when you crank the throttle torque) and no hesitation.  Up and down shifts are much smoother at low and higher rpm's.  It pulls like a mule and revs feel harder and quicker but not jerky.  I had learned to caress the throttle so I didn't do the herky jerky prior to the flash.  The bike ran like it was on steroids but all the power just felt smoother and more manageable to me.
My riding buddy is a better rider than I am and  ,til very recently,he would wait on me to catch up always.  I've put about 4000 miles on my bike since August when I bought it so I had a good feel for it before and after the flash.  I currently have just over 17000 miles on the bike.  I told my buddy, who is a very competitive rider, that he needed to ride mine now (which I bought from him in August) and he kinda nodded and said, "yeah, I think I'm gonna get that done to mine as soon as I can afford it".
Those are my impressions after a short, cold ride today.  Tomorrow we are going to hit a lot more of the twisties on a longer ride.
That's my current 2 cents worth on the MR flash by Steve! :))
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Motodoc on December 10, 2017, 01:29:12 am
Didn't hit a lot of twisties today but I did notice that I wasn't touching the brake going into a corner due to the increase in engine braking when I let out of the throttle to enter a turn.  I live In Chattanooga TN and there isn't a straight road around here.  The engine braking or decel, whichever you prefer to call it, is SMOOTH but drastically increased when you let off the throttle.  Before the flash, when I let off the throttle, it would throw me forward if I let off too fast, no more, no more.   
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Nodesurfer on December 11, 2017, 04:02:37 pm
Took my 2009 with the MR flash out yesterday for an couple hours of cold weather riding. One hour of back roads and one hour of basically riding it to the gym and back, the long way.

The mileage continues to climb, despite my regularly twisting the throttle. Although it does drop when I do that, it comes back up when I don't. Average around town is now at 42.5 but I expect a highway trip of any decent length would have it closer to 50.

Also, prior to the flash, I had wound it up a few times in first and second and lofted the front wheel a little. The only time I've wound it up in first since, it pretty much scared me, it came up so quickly. So I have avoided that. But before the exhaust (V&H) the K&N filter, and the flash, I had briefly taken it up to 115 MPH in 3rd gear, then dropped it back.

Yesterday, I was on a nice straight stretch of deserted road and wound it up gently in 5th, quickly reaching 125, and shifted into 6th and maintained it for a little bit. She was smooth as silk and turning 5900 RPM's at 125. I didn't feel like doing any more, but felt like it would have easily blown right past 150 or 160 if I'd wanted to.

Other than that, just getting the feel of it into and around some curves. Definitely feels like a much more stable and controllable riding experience. And coming back on throttle after turning a corner or decelerating into a curve is super smooth.
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Motodoc on December 11, 2017, 09:14:30 pm
I did a cold weather run yesterday as well and the power increase is significant.  I rolled into it pretty hard in 3rd and bumped 4th and pegged 125 in a blink.  Lots of twisties were had and some black ice so I was being careful since I'm very attached to the flesh on my body.  Huge difference in the power and engine braking.
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Nodesurfer on December 12, 2017, 03:37:26 am
Yeah, that black ice scares the hell out of me. I don't much care for melted tar snakes on 95 degree days either, on the twisties. And when skin meets road, road always wins.

I can tell you that from when I got in a wreck on my 2010 Goldwing in September 2014. Lost a lot of meat on my right arm. T-shirt and jeans. Never a good idea, but it was nice out. Until the bike and I parted ways and I became, for a brief time, like an astronaut on a spacewalk. Which did not last long enough, and wound up with my right forearm taking all my weight on it as the road took the top of it off. Broken shoulder in multiple places, collapsed lung, bashed knee, staples in my right shin. Road rash galore. It took 4 units of blood, 3 surgeries and 4 months to the day out of work before going back before I was somewhat operational again. And then a year before I got the wife to "let" me get another bike. A nice V-Star 1100 from Craig's List, nicely equipped, for $3300. It got me back in the wind with the guys, but it wasn't ever "me". I'm so much happier with the Connie now. And a little more aware of the fact that no matter how many bikes you've had (quite a few), and no matter how many miles you've racked up (many), it can happen to you.

I'll share if you dare.

This was the arm shortly after the wreck, and getting cleaned up a little. Lots of meat and muscle gone.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NfhslgWtxGXa7WSzebbOn9qKQ7oPaCCT/view?usp=sharing

This was the arm after a skin graft from my thigh was attached. Still massively swollen. There's like 80 staples in it. That "white mesh" is my actual skin from my thigh. bleached, perforated through some type of meat grinder/prep machine, stretched, and ready to grow back.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1A02NAU07KNFLLJnNIVPciyqmg2DGsSZJ/view?usp=sharing

And this is the finished product, a little over 3 years later. Not pretty, but it works.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1u8eahQjWXzhZUxlGE8p2Q9zGPDps3MlS/view?usp=sharing

After that, they let me recoup a little bit and then did a 7 hour surgery on my shoulder, the ball and socket being broken into a bunch of little pieces. Titanium bracket with 13 screws in there now, all back together, nice and neat, somewhat painful at times, but functional...and plenty able to twist that throttle again.   ;)

Be careful out there.
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Motodoc on December 13, 2017, 12:37:00 am
Nodesurfer...OUCH...OUCH...AND OUCH!
Yeah, I prefer my flesh ON my body.  I have no desire to contact the pavement off my bike.  I'm quite conscience of the fact that it can happen at any time.  Ain't NOBODY got time for dat! :-[
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Nodesurfer on December 13, 2017, 02:57:31 am
Over 45 years of riding and at least a dozen bikes in that time and only two accidents, both pretty bad. One on the Goldwing in 2014 and one on my Honda XL-175 in 1984. Collapsed a lung both times too. Right one on the Goldwing, left one on the 175. Bashed my left knee good both times, smashed my right shoulder good both times.

Just glad to still be able to ride. I probably ought to be dead after that last one.  :??:

And people say "And you still ride???"

My answer is "If you get in a car crash, do you quit driving? Or fall off a horse, quit riding?"
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: ZXtasy on December 13, 2017, 03:25:11 am
Why am I suddenly hungry for turkey?
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Jeff Kerkow on December 13, 2017, 04:09:13 pm
Friendly warning from the moderation staff.
Please stay on topic.
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: connie_rider on December 13, 2017, 04:35:36 pm
LSG, Your timing was impeccable. I wuz getting a little queasy;
                 Getting back to the subject..............

I was one of the Beta testers on this flash. (and all of Steve's previous Flashes)
   I was "particularly" impressed by this one.   
        Steve really did some MAGIC on the Mountain Runner.
   
Until now; I kept my mouth shut, and monitored the discussion's; {to see what the new guys think about the Mountain Runner}.
                    Most of what I've seen is comments on how hard it accelerates and how fast the bike goes.
                      "Heck", that wuz the EZ part.

I have to tell you; Ya'll are missing the point of this new Flash....

Steve's previous Flashes, {Particularly the EVO} "already" improved the power and acceleration. {Thank you Steve}  :allhail:
The purpose of this new Flash was to improve how the bike rides the curves....
   NOTE: The changes he made this time also make the bike easier to ride in normal circumstance's. {like commuting}.

ie; He did all of this by improving the initial Roll-on Smoothness, controlling the torque curve, and enhancing the engine braking.
      Ya'll will notice, there has been little discussion about this BIG THING!!!

Lastly; What ya'll "also" seem to be missing is;  these changes make "You" smoother.
           All the Old Guys {like me} already know this, but {B'cuz I'm a nice guy} I'll lay it out for you New Guys..
                           Smoother is Faster!!  Thinkaboutit..  ;)
 
Ride safe, Ted

Let the FLAME's begin..    Buncha Rookies!!!   :rotflmao: :nananana: 
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: ZXtasy on December 13, 2017, 04:49:43 pm
I'll get back to you in 4 months or so on that mountain riding bit....inconvenience of this thing called Winter. Any hard cornering mountain riding that its. I don't think I missed the point...it is better, worth the price, and will only really start to shine in the coming months. IMHO.

Not new to riding but new to this Connie, and she definitely was a handful to try to keep smooth in the really tight stuff I found last summer. Already can feel the difference and know it will be an absolute win in the same conditions. Only problem then will be it highlighting the suspension weaknesses and my CC bill to Ohlins shall get outrageous.
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: connie_rider on December 13, 2017, 07:21:35 pm
I hear ya..
  Danged Winter..
      Heck, it snowed in Houston last week!
          Was 2 or 3 days before we could ride again!!   >:(

Ok, I've been a smarty eleck long e'nuff. Hope I didn't pz anyone off?
  My intention was to emphasize the improvements on this flash and stir some discussion.
       This thing is great!
  Hopefully this won't be a long winter for ya'll.

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: strum on December 13, 2017, 09:31:45 pm
Ted you are spot on.  I didnt explain this part well and you are right that was the point and "Biggest" issue Steve was trying to work out.
  He told me that after riding up here at the national (Helen) he went  to work developing the EVO .
  Then he he started work on the Mountain Runner after listening to feedback from riders who ride these type of roads often.
  The end result is a tune that does just what you(Ted) said.
 I had a friend the other day say to me that he was impressed at how much better and smoother he sees me take the corners.
 I never brought up the flash or coherence this statement from him. He is a guy who I have ridden these roads with quiet a bit in the last year or two and we know each others riding styles well. So when he said that I knew its because the tune has helped me tremendously. Not because Im any better on my own .
  Ted is right smoother is faster and I have to add, I do feel safer too because of it.
   
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Motodoc on December 13, 2017, 10:11:07 pm
LSG, Your timing was impeccable. I wuz getting a little queasy;
                 Getting back to the subject..............

I was one of the Beta testers on this flash. (and all of Steve's previous Flashes)
   I was "particularly" impressed by this one.   
        Steve really did some MAGIC on the Mountain Runner.
   
Until now; I kept my mouth shut, and monitored the discussion's; {to see what the new guys think about the Mountain Runner}.
                    Most of what I've seen is comments on how hard it accelerates and how fast the bike goes.
                      "Heck", that wuz the EZ part.

I have to tell you; Ya'll are missing the point of this new Flash....

Steve's previous Flashes, {Particularly the EVO} "already" improved the power and acceleration. {Thank you Steve}  :allhail:
The purpose of this new Flash was to improve how the bike rides the curves....
   NOTE: The changes he made this time also make the bike easier to ride in normal circumstance's. {like commuting}.

ie; He did all of this by improving the initial Roll-on Smoothness, controlling the torque curve, and enhancing the engine braking.
      Ya'll will notice, there has been little discussion about this BIG THING!!!

Lastly; What ya'll "also" seem to be missing is;  these changes make "You" smoother.
           All the Old Guys {like me} already know this, but {B'cuz I'm a nice guy} I'll lay it out for you New Guys..
                           Smoother is Faster!!  Thinkaboutit..  ;)
 
Ride safe, Ted

Let the FLAME's begin..    Buncha Rookies!!!   :rotflmao: :nananana:


My "rookie" impressions of the flash are just the remarks made by a 'beginner" and I obviously missed the whole point of Steve's improvements.  In the future I'll leave all truly valid impressions to the "old guys" that are "nice guys" to us "new guys".  Obviously, reading my previous, invalid impressions, I never mentioned "smoothness" of roll on or decel/engine braking, removed all the herky jerky and smooth power all the way thru the power band...oh wait, yes I did.  I have an innate love of the condescending, but that's just my "rookie opinion" that missed the whole point of Steve's great work. 
Ride safe, Motodoc

Steve IS the Jedi C14 Master..   Opine of a Rookie!!!   :I missed the whole point:   :condescendingprick:
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Jerdurr on December 13, 2017, 11:37:19 pm
LSG, Your timing was impeccable. I wuz getting a little queasy;
                 Getting back to the subject..............

I was one of the Beta testers on this flash. (and all of Steve's previous Flashes)
   I was "particularly" impressed by this one.   
        Steve really did some MAGIC on the Mountain Runner.
   
Until now; I kept my mouth shut, and monitored the discussion's; {to see what the new guys think about the Mountain Runner}.
                    Most of what I've seen is comments on how hard it accelerates and how fast the bike goes.
                      "Heck", that wuz the EZ part.

I have to tell you; Ya'll are missing the point of this new Flash....

Steve's previous Flashes, {Particularly the EVO} "already" improved the power and acceleration. {Thank you Steve}  :allhail:
The purpose of this new Flash was to improve how the bike rides the curves....
   NOTE: The changes he made this time also make the bike easier to ride in normal circumstance's. {like commuting}.

ie; He did all of this by improving the initial Roll-on Smoothness, controlling the torque curve, and enhancing the engine braking.
      Ya'll will notice, there has been little discussion about this BIG THING!!!

Lastly; What ya'll "also" seem to be missing is;  these changes make "You" smoother.
           All the Old Guys {like me} already know this, but {B'cuz I'm a nice guy} I'll lay it out for you New Guys..
                           Smoother is Faster!!  Thinkaboutit..  ;)
 
Ride safe, Ted

Let the FLAME's begin..    Buncha Rookies!!!   :rotflmao: :nananana:


My "rookie" impressions of the flash are just the remarks made by a 'beginner" and I obviously missed the whole point of Steve's improvements.  In the future I'll leave all truly valid impressions to the "old guys" that are "nice guys" to us "new guys".  Obviously, reading my previous, invalid impressions, I never mentioned "smoothness" of roll on or decel/engine braking, removed all the herky jerky and smooth power all the way thru the power band...oh wait, yes I did.  I have an innate love of the condescending, but that's just my "rookie opinion" that missed the whole point of Steve's great work. 
Ride safe, Motodoc

Steve IS the Jedi C14 Master..   Opine of a Rookie!!!   :I missed the whole point:   :condescendingprick:

Motodoc, i'm pretty sure Ted wasn't trying to be condescending; in fact, Ted is one of the nicest guys in the forum, I can certify that. Don't forget, communication by text loses a lot of due to subjectivity of how the reader sees it, etc.
All i'm trying to say, is that I'm pretty sure he was just joking.

Cheers guys :)
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: connie_rider on December 13, 2017, 11:54:58 pm
Thanks JD: Your correct I was funnin' to move the discussion to the improvements.

Good point Motodoc. {You clearly stated it & I agree} some of the "Posters" are right on the mark..

That's why I sed;  Most of what I've seen is comments on how hard it accelerates and how fast the bike goes.
                           Ya'll will notice, there has been little discussion about this BIG THING!!!

I shoulda mentioned; I've been monitoring this discussion {and several others} on both Forums.
                                In all, the overlying expressions were; how hard it accelerates and how fast the bike goes.
                               
                                Steve spent a lot of time improving on his last Flash. {Which is already great}
                                I'm trying to help folks focus on the difference's.

Ride safe, Ted

PS: Stirring the pot sometimes works to bring out idea's..
      {and; ok, I admit it} Sometimes it's fun to pick on the "New Guys".. <evil grin>
         Flame on!!
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on December 14, 2017, 01:35:59 am
Poor Ted, now even the new guys are doggin' him  :o

Don't worry, I knew you were just messin' around, but then it's cus I know you  :'(   ;)

Steve
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Motodoc on December 14, 2017, 02:34:36 am
Point taken.  Sometimes you have to fire back at the old guys.   >:D
Back to the thread, eh? :nananana:
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: kawafornia on December 14, 2017, 02:53:05 am
Put my MR-equipped C14 through its first paces, Sunday. Definitely smoother at low throttle, but with all the engine braking of before. More stable and confidant, coming out of turns. Thanks, Steve.
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Nodesurfer on December 14, 2017, 03:10:42 pm
And fast...wicked FAST, right??? :)
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Just Cliff on December 14, 2017, 10:47:22 pm

         I was one of the Beta testers on this flash. (and all of Steve's previous Flashes)
   I was "particularly" impressed by this one.   
 
Ride safe, Ted

I'm crushed Ted, I put you up, feed you, lead you around on rides & you treat me like a red headed step child keeping secrets from me  :'(. You get the barn & cold ceral when you come back.

I hear ya..
  Danged Winter..
      Heck, it snowed in Houston last week!
          Was 2 or 3 days before we could ride again!!   >:(

Ride safe, Ted

When you had snow I had 65* & sunshine. I was riding  :nananana:.

Poor Ted, now even the new guys are doggin' him  :o

Steve

Bash away new guys. After all that's we keep Ted around  :rotflmao:!

Cliff   :beerchug:
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: connie_rider on December 14, 2017, 11:23:23 pm
Somehow,,, I think the topic has shifted from the Mountain Runner Flash to pick on Ted...   :'(
  Not sure why I got that idea??   :41:

Cliff, I did tell you I had one. You wuzn't listening. {again}   :P
I also told you I wuz having to test it in Houston, (which sux) and you could try it when I come up there..   :nananana:

NOTE: The barn & cold cereal is fine with me; as long as I get to ride Arkansas!!   :motonoises:

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on December 14, 2017, 11:30:59 pm


I'm crushed Ted, I put you up, feed you, lead you around on rides & you treat me like a red headed step child keeping secrets from me  :'(. You get the barn & cold ceral when you come back.



Cliff   
[/quote]

  Ted came in right near the tail end of development, he was really miffed that you dog him so bad in the Arkansas curves, and he needed me to do some work on 5th gear for him specifically to be able to stay up with you. I am not a miracle worker, but I sure tried to speed him up, Cliff .  :motonoises:  Steve
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Just Cliff on December 15, 2017, 01:15:42 pm
Somehow,,, I think the topic has shifted from the Mountain Runner Flash to pick on Ted...   :'(
  Not sure why I got that idea??   :41:

Cliff, I did tell you I had one. You wuzn't listening. {again}   :P
I also told you I wuz having to test it in Houston, (which sux) and you could try it when I come up there..   :nananana:

NOTE: The barn & cold cereal is fine with me; as long as I get to ride Arkansas!!   :motonoises:

Ride safe, Ted

 My wife says I only half listen. Okay since I was ignoring you, uh I mean not listening you can sleep in the house & have hot meals  :).


  Ted came in right near the tail end of development, he was really miffed that you dog him so bad in the Arkansas curves, and he needed me to do some work on 5th gear for him specifically to be able to stay up with you. I am not a miracle worker, but I sure tried to speed him up, Cliff .  :motonoises:  Steve

I always ride slow when Ted's with me, just don't tell him that.

Okay, back to regularly scheduled programming. Sorry to OP & Steve for the slight derailment.  :-[

I'll be getting this flash done once my bike is current on service this winter. Waaay past due & I mean waaaaaay past. It should be in good tune before a reflash to make a fair judgement.

Cliff  :beerchug:
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: connie_rider on December 15, 2017, 04:30:06 pm
That's ok,,, I don't mind being {called} old and slow.
I admit it, I don't want to go to jail. {again}
That makes me a better representative of the other "honest" folks that are trying to decide which flash to buy.

For those of you that ride with your hair on fire,,,, this thing is fast, accelerates like a bullet!   :rotflmao:
For those of you that {like me} don't have a lot of hair to burn, this thing is smooth.. {great thru the curves and in traffic)
 [which {not mentioning any names} make's you faster {with more control in the curves} than the liars out there]    :nananana:

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Gsled on December 16, 2017, 03:20:25 am
 Well Steve I think you have broken through the rust on my wallet hinges with this flash. :)) I'll be in touch for particulars.
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: bobgroger on December 16, 2017, 11:04:23 am
Yep, mine is boxed up and ready for a trip to sunny Fla. Everybody wants fast, but I have to try REALLY hard for smooth. I would prefer it just happens. Don't forget the December discount, $35 off!
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Fountainclimber on December 18, 2017, 12:53:42 pm
I rode up to Steve's on Saturday and got the MR flash.  Steve did all the work, I just had to wait anxiously.  I'm not a very aggressive rider like you other guys since the old lady is usually on the back but it definitely pulls better from at least 2000 up.  Smoother power but the biggest thing I noticed was the smoothness when you let off the throttle.  No jerky helmet banging.  Mileage is up but since I didn't notice what it was, I can't tell now except the average number continues to climb.  So get a tune for Christmas!

For Sale $$$:  Highly coveted black Shoodaben Engineering decal (my bike is black) ;D

F

Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: kv5e on December 18, 2017, 04:01:49 pm
I rode up to Steve's on Saturday and got the MR flash.  Steve did all the work, I just had to wait anxiously.  I'm not a very aggressive rider like you other guys since the old lady is usually on the back but it definitely pulls better from at least 2000 up.  Smoother power but the biggest thing I noticed was the smoothness when you let off the throttle.  No jerky helmet banging.  Mileage is up but since I didn't notice what it was, I can't tell now except the average number continues to climb.  So get a tune for Christmas!

For Sale $$$:  Highly coveted black Shoodaben Engineering decal (my bike is black) ;D

F



Good, now we are back on topic. C:-)
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Motodoc on December 19, 2017, 11:30:33 pm
Well, I finally got another chance to ride today, I actually got an afternoon off and the temp was about 60.  This flash has smoothed everything out from top to bottom.  Smooth on and off throttle, smooth in and out of turns, the engine braking negates the brakes when riding at a sane speeds.  And yes, it's FAST!!! 
And...I got my decal on!   My life is complete. :)
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Ryder123 on January 15, 2018, 08:46:50 pm
I got a chance to run the bike through the mountainous roads of Pennsylvania. The bike responds with terrific amounts of power!
After running the bike through different speeds, and gears. Lots of low end gear power. 4th gear is where the power is unleashed with great reserve for 5th and 6th. The engine braking is great!..its very responsive negotiating curves. Very smooth response.



Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Chubbs on January 15, 2018, 10:48:46 pm
I'm jealous.  Had my ECU flashed last month and can't take her for a ride.  Temps in the teens and a foot of snow here in Michigan.
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: ZXtasy on January 15, 2018, 11:31:41 pm
Sux worse to be you then than me....my condolences. 40 and sunny here today but I took my 1250 Bandit for a shakedown cruise rather than feel how splediferous and dramstically better the C-14 is with the MR flash. Hope that makes it easier for you....


THINK SUMMER
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: gpd323 on January 15, 2018, 11:36:29 pm
When I went to look at the Z900RS I finally got a chance to ride the new MR flash. Its spot on, does everything I want. Its perfectly suited to my riding style.
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: Steve_KS on March 01, 2018, 02:55:38 pm
I got the Mountain Runner Flash and noticed great improvements in the bike. I've only been able to ride limited but I noticed more power at lower RPM so I was riding in a higher gear and shifting is much smoother for me. There still is sand and salt on the roads here in Kansas so I've not been able to really give it a full test. I can hardly wait for Arkansas in April to try it on the curves and hills. As far as I'm concern the improvements in normal riding are worth it.
On a second important note I would like to tell everyone about Steve's great customer service. I did my flash in December. During the return shipping my ECU got cracked. Looked like it got shut in a door or run over. I left Steve a message and he immediately called me back. I was the first lucky one to have this happen in all the years of his business. He came up with the best plan to get a new ECU and flashed to the bike and sent me a check to cover all the cost from his business so I could get the bike going as quick as possible. I then sent him my new ECU and he flashed it for no additional cost. He did finally get reimbursed from USPS but it took over 2 months and lots of hassles. He was very concerned about getting me riding again as fast as possible, since is winter everything work out fine. I can't say enough how Steve was concern and his fast actions got things all worked out. You do not see this in today's businesses. Steve will treat you right and he cares.
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: connie_rider on March 01, 2018, 03:10:38 pm
Just returned from the Sport Touring School (Put on by Doug/COG) in Jennings Florida.
Was my first time on a track and so the first time to "really" give the Mountain Runner a good workout.
Most of the riding was done at high RPM's in 2nd and 3rd gear, (with an occasional touch of 4th if I got a curve exactly right.).
Power was extremely smooth/linear. No hic-ups, no stumbles.. Plenty of power.
Roll on from low to high RPM's {out of the tighter curves} was seamless, lots of torque..

What worked best for me was the deceleration.
    I could count on the decell to bring my speed down smoothly without the need to immediately grab the brake.
   This allowed me to decell into a turn, and then add the brake a bit later.

Bottom line: I LIKED IT!!

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: BigK on March 01, 2018, 10:49:17 pm
I'm jealous.  Had my ECU flashed last month and can't take her for a ride.  Temps in the teens and a foot of snow here in Michigan.

+1
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: connie_rider on March 02, 2018, 03:20:28 pm
Kevin, while your being jealous, I'll mention; "Jorge" was there with us, it was in the 80's, and the weather was beautiful.  >:D
{PS: Don't hate me. Hate Jorge!}   :rotflmao:

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: Shoodaben Mountain Runner Flash
Post by: BigK on March 02, 2018, 08:27:24 pm
I got enough hate for both of you. :)) :rotflmao: