Concours Owners Group (COG) Forum

Concours 14 Discussion (C14 / ZG1400 / 1400GTR) => Concours 14 / ZG1400 General Chat and Tech => Topic started by: Steve in Sunny Fla on January 08, 2018, 03:35:36 pm

Title: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on January 08, 2018, 03:35:36 pm
    It's a fact that almost every c-14 ends up with a slip on muffler.  I have a record of every flash I've done, and by a huge margin, slip ons outnumber stock mufflers. You see it when you go to COG rides or rallies. The question of "how much power do you get from a slip on" is constantly asked of me, and in fact this thread was suggested to me by another owner.

   Let's first look at manufacturers claims. I'm ordering these by cost, most expensive to least expensive.

1) Akropovic ..............5.2 hp..................879.00 (revzilla, no manufacturer cost listed)

2) Two brothers.........4.4 hp...................575.00 (manufacturer price)

3) Vance/Hines CS1..N/A.......................480.00 (manufacturer price)

4) Area p.....................5.62 hp.................450-465.00 (manufacturer price)

5) delkevic...................6.0 hp...................220-279.00  (manufacturer price)

 Although I didn't see it, I'm sure all testing was done with the decibel silencers out. I can assure you that any of the DB killers are power killers also.

  My dyno time with the area p slip on yielded a modest 3 hp gain with the stock tune.  My testing proves that there is no need to consider "richening up" the concours fuel mixture with a slip on, the flow isn't significant enough to need it.

  As always, keep in mind that if any manufacturer or store is making outlandish power claims associated with slip ons you might want to look at that a little closer  ::) 

  Steve

   http://www.akrapovic.com/# (http://www.akrapovic.com/#)!/motorcycle/product/road/15122/technical?brandId=31&modelId=682&yearId=4498

   https://www.twobros.com/products/2008-2015-concourse-14-m5-black-titanium-part-number-005-1920420v-b (https://www.twobros.com/products/2008-2015-concourse-14-m5-black-titanium-part-number-005-1920420v-b)

    https://products.vanceandhines.com/store/kawasaki/33511/ (https://products.vanceandhines.com/store/kawasaki/33511/)

    http://www.areapnolimits.com/products/Slip-On-Exhaust-Kawasaki-Concours-14-2008.php (http://www.areapnolimits.com/products/Slip-On-Exhaust-Kawasaki-Concours-14-2008.php)

     http://www.delkevic.us/index.php?route=product/product&path=120460_122058_122739_122753&product_id=2572 (http://www.delkevic.us/index.php?route=product/product&path=120460_122058_122739_122753&product_id=2572)
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: JPlug on January 08, 2018, 08:11:43 pm
It seems like a slip-on is a waste of money unless you want to spend a lot only for looks and less weight.
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: Bud on January 08, 2018, 08:28:49 pm
It seems like a slip-on is a waste of money unless you want to spend a lot only for looks and less weight.
They don't call the stock muffler a "potato launcher" for nothing!  That thing is huge! :D
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: Rob9876 on January 08, 2018, 08:32:27 pm
. . . My testing proves that there is no need to consider "richening up" the concours fuel mixture with a slip on, the flow isn't significant enough to need it.
For the mechanically ignorant, like me, does that mean that it's not necessary to map/flash, etc. if you add one of these slip-ons (just slip it on)?
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on January 08, 2018, 08:34:40 pm
. . . My testing proves that there is no need to consider "richening up" the concours fuel mixture with a slip on, the flow isn't significant enough to need it.
For the mechanically ignorant, like me, does that mean that it's not necessary to map/flash, etc. if you add one of these slip-ons (just slip it on)?

that's correct. Steve
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: Rob9876 on January 08, 2018, 08:37:18 pm
that's correct. Steve
Thanks for the quick reply Steve!
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: Buzzard on January 08, 2018, 09:00:35 pm
Good and accurate info from SISF as usual.
My decision to change exhaust was for strictly non-performance reasons.
The C-14 has more than enough power for me in OEM condition.
I chose the 18" Delkevic SS Oval based on looks alone.
Being able to hear a little more C-14 engine music is a bonus. :beerchug:

Now if will only warm up above freezing I'll get out and ride some.
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: rcannon409 on January 08, 2018, 09:13:44 pm
If you ever had the oportunity, it would be cool to see how badly an insert does reduce power.   Power is nice, and quiet is nice.  I wish both were an option.

Are you thinking -5%?  -10%......just curious as to how bad the inserts are....nothing else.
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: seagiant1 on January 08, 2018, 09:50:47 pm
It seems like a slip-on is a waste of money unless you want to spend a lot only for looks and less weight.

Hi,
       I could NOT take that "Potato Launcher"! :(

Any other good from it, is just a bonus! ;D

Looks like my Delkelvic 18" Oval CF came out of the pack pretty good! :great:

Thanks Steve! :motonoises:
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: d04011 on January 08, 2018, 11:13:43 pm
Besides the significant weight savings and much better looks, it's also nice to have a decent sound loud enough that I don't have to look at the tach to see if my C-14 is actually running when other bikes with aftermarket exhausts nearby are idling...

2 Brothers CF can without extra inserts
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: cuda on January 09, 2018, 01:53:03 am
If you ever had the oportunity, it would be cool to see how badly an insert does reduce power.   Power is nice, and quiet is nice.  I wish both were an option.

Sure ... always options a  Turbo will quiet things

Spray will give you more ponies  cheap
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: Lurch71 on January 09, 2018, 03:19:09 am
Anybody have any positive feedback on the Area P slip on.  Their shop is about 10 minutes from me here in SoCal.
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: connie_rider on January 09, 2018, 03:21:02 am
I have an Area P. {Carbon Fiber}
Different tone {a bit quitter} than the Two Brothers and CS-1's I've been around.
Love it..

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: Lurch71 on January 09, 2018, 03:29:05 am
I have an Area P. {Carbon Fiber}
Different tone {a bit quitter} than the Two Brothers I've been around.
Love it..

Ride safe, Ted

Thanks Ted
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: ghostrider990 on January 09, 2018, 11:53:04 am
I ran my Db Killer Inserts in my Dual Akra's for quite a few miles.....on stock tune, not with Steve's Flash.

However, my Butt Dyno would tell me that the power reduction is more in the 10-15% reduction zone, because I could REALLY feel it in certain areas of the powerband.

needless to say, those are out, and they're NEVER coming back!

gr
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: Zarticus on January 09, 2018, 12:39:29 pm
I have run the Db killer in my CS1 & there is almost no noticeable sound reduction, I could not really notice any performance difference with it in or out either. I now run without it since it seems to do NOTHING.
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on January 09, 2018, 02:00:48 pm
I have run the Db killer in my CS1 & there is almost no noticeable sound reduction, I could not really notice any performance difference with it in or out either. I now run without it since it seems to do NOTHING.

Gary - i'm waiting on all my new hardware / software for my dyno upgrades now. when it's on the dyno, bring your bike down with the DB killer and we'll do some WOT runs to compare and see what effect the db killer is having. Steve
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: ron203 on January 09, 2018, 02:20:40 pm
 :popcorncouple:
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: rcannon409 on January 09, 2018, 04:29:37 pm
Have you guys ever ridden,on your own bike, as a passenger?  Thats where i noticed the noise, without an insert.....but- 15%?   Maybe its time for good earplugs, instead?
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: turbojoe78_MA on January 09, 2018, 05:21:06 pm
Here are the dyno charts of my bike going from stock exhaust, to a 18" CF Delkevic.

These runs were done right after each other, bike never left the dyno.
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on January 09, 2018, 05:59:02 pm
Here are the dyno charts of my bike going from stock exhaust, to a 18" CF Delkevic.

These runs were done right after each other, bike never left the dyno.

so it LOST 1 hp with the DB killer, and GAINED 3.6 hp with the slip on open.  :great:  Thanks for posting that Joe! Steve
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: Doc on January 09, 2018, 07:47:28 pm
Installed an Area-P slip-on on my '12 last year based on looks and sound alone - no concern about horsepower increase.  The carbon fibre looks great - totally changes the bike's looks - much more sleek and sporty.  The customer service from Kerry at Area-P is fantastic.  That, combined with Steve's MR flash, and I am golden!
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: seagiant1 on January 09, 2018, 08:14:02 pm
Hi,
      Thanks TurboJoe! ;D

Good to see it on the chart! :great:

I have the same slip on and love it!!! >:D >:D >:D
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: Pilgrim on January 09, 2018, 09:10:22 pm
Here are the dyno charts of my bike going from stock exhaust, to a 18" CF Delkevic.

These runs were done right after each other, bike never left the dyno.

I also have the Delk 18" CF and like it.   It goes well on the black bike. 

With the silencer in, you'll get more miles per gallon (if fuel efficiency matters to you).

With the silencer out, you'll get more smiles per gallon!     :motonoises:
   
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: rcannon409 on January 09, 2018, 09:45:40 pm
That brings up another question about the db killers, themselves. 

In the case of the 18" delk, the db killer does not appear to hurt it , THAT badly, but I wonder about other systems?

Somehow, I ended up with four Leo Vince exhaust systems. One was on a Suzuki DR350 dirt bike. System two is on an SV650. System three is on a ninja 1000, and system four is my concours 14.

All four systems share the identical db killer?????  Same diameter, same length.  Obviously, theres been huge amounts of engineering in their db killers for each specific bike, or someone just had to build something....

The exhaust systems really have nothing in common as far as length, diameter, shape, etc. other than that same db killer fitting.




Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: gpd323 on January 10, 2018, 12:22:03 am
was this particular dyno run on a stock C14 ECU map?

Greg D
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: connie_rider on January 10, 2018, 12:50:43 am
That brings up another question about the db killers, themselves. 

In the case of the 18" delk, the db killer does not appear to hurt it , THAT badly, but I wonder about other systems?

Somehow, I ended up with four Leo Vince exhaust systems. One was on a Suzuki DR350 dirt bike. System two is on an SV650. System three is on a ninja 1000, and system four is my concours 14.

All four systems share the identical db killer?????  Same diameter, same length.  Obviously, theres been huge amounts of engineering in their db killers for each specific bike, or someone just had to build something....

The exhaust systems really have nothing in common as far as length, diameter, shape, etc. other than that same db killer fitting.

RC, I think your reading the Dyno Plots incorrectly when you say "the db killer does not appear to hurt it , THAT badly".
You have to look at it as how does the power (with db killer) compare with the slip on installed, not vs the original muffler..
   {ie; what did you loose}.

I agree, from stock to slip-on with db killer the numbers are approx. the same...
But the installation of a slip-on should help you, not loose power or break even.

The 3rd plot indicates that the slip on can allow the engine to make approx. 3 more hp, 2 ft/lbs of torque.
So that indicates; adding the db Killer to the slip-on lost you approx. 3 hp 2 ft/lbs of torque.

NOTE: My numbers are not exact, using approx. numbers to show the difference..

PS: Your correct. All db killers, pipes, headers, slip-on's, etc are not the same.

       Do you have a full system Leo Vince exhaust system on your bike now?
         If yes,,, congrats / yahoooo!

Ride safe, Ted

Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: Zarticus on January 10, 2018, 02:31:30 am
I have run the Db killer in my CS1 & there is almost no noticeable sound reduction, I could not really notice any performance difference with it in or out either. I now run without it since it seems to do NOTHING.

Gary - i'm waiting on all my new hardware / software for my dyno upgrades now. when it's on the dyno, bring your bike down with the DB killer and we'll do some WOT runs to compare and see what effect the db killer is having. Steve
Sounds good Steve, Let me know when your ready. I might be forced to have the Mountain Runner flash done when I'm there  :)
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: khager01 on January 10, 2018, 12:21:15 pm
The way I am reading the charts 1st one stock 2nd slip-on/with db killer and 3rd slip-on/without db killer.   So just installing the db killer you lose 4.6 hp.
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: rcannon409 on January 10, 2018, 12:44:44 pm
That brings up another question about the db killers, themselves. 

In the case of the 18" delk, the db killer does not appear to hurt it , THAT badly, but I wonder about other systems?

Somehow, I ended up with four Leo Vince exhaust systems. One was on a Suzuki DR350 dirt bike. System two is on an SV650. System three is on a ninja 1000, and system four is my concours 14.

All four systems share the identical db killer?????  Same diameter, same length.  Obviously, theres been huge amounts of engineering in their db killers for each specific bike, or someone just had to build something....

The exhaust systems really have nothing in common as far as length, diameter, shape, etc. other than that same db killer fitting.

RC, I think your reading the Dyno Plots incorrectly when you say "the db killer does not appear to hurt it , THAT badly".
You have to look at it as how does the power (with db killer) compare with the slip on installed, not vs the original muffler..
   {ie; what did you loose}.

I agree, from stock to slip-on with db killer the numbers are approx. the same...
But the installation of a slip-on should help you, not loose power or break even.

The 3rd plot indicates that the slip on can allow the engine to make approx. 3 more hp, 2 ft/lbs of torque.
So that indicates; adding the db Killer to the slip-on lost you approx. 3 hp 2 ft/lbs of torque.

NOTE: My numbers are not exact, using approx. numbers to show the difference..

PS: Your correct. All db killers, pipes, headers, slip-on's, etc are not the same.

       Do you have a full system Leo Vince exhaust system on your bike now?
         If yes,,, congrats / yahoooo!

Ride safe, Ted

Good point, Ted.   When I said, "THAT" much, I had a figure in mind of -10...Meaning, if I lost 10hp, the wife was going to need to by some ear plugs. She probably should buy them, anyway.   She does not have a fairing or any sort of wind protection on her broom. I'm sure it very noisy, at high speed. 

As far as the Leo Vince goes, the two bikes I have (Ninja 1000, concours 14) Leo  Never made a full system for. I wish they did.  Back when I bought them, Leo Vince had several different exhaust systems in their line up that were priced...well, that was their problem.

They had a budget slip on at 350.00, a midrange one at 650, and this full carbon one, on my 14 was more like 800.00-900. Too confusing, and there really was not much difference between the three systems, except price.

I used an Arrow header on my Ninja, but the concours 14 is just running a stock c14 header, at the moment.
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: turbojoe78_MA on January 10, 2018, 02:33:27 pm
was this particular dyno run on a stock C14 ECU map?

Greg D

If your asking about my dyno charts, no it wasn't.

It was modified version of SISF's first flash that he offered me to try for him.

I believe he had received some feedback from us northerners and wanted to see some dyno runs to see if he could improve on the product he was offering us.  I liked the idea and it fit right in with me wanting to see a before and after with the slipon.
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: connie_rider on January 10, 2018, 03:24:11 pm
Good point khager01.

I compared Stock vs Slip-on;  138.1 HP / 91.0 ft/lbs  minus 134.6 HP / 89.3 ft/lbs  =  gained 3.5 HP / 1.7 ft/lbs
This indicates, the engine with the Slip-on; gained 3.5 peak HP / 1.7 ft/lbs of torque over the stock muffler

If I compared the Slip-on vs Slip-on "with db killer" {as khager suggests);
                                              138.1 HP / 91.0 ft/lbs  minus 133.5 HP / 89.5 ft/lbs  = lost 4.6 HP / and 1.5 ft/lbs
This indicates, the engine lost 4.6 peak Hp / 1.5 ft/lbs of torque by installing the db killer in the slip-on.

In other words;
By installing the slip-on with db Killer the engine is making 1.16 less peak HP, and 0.2 ft/lbs more torque than the stock muffler.

Bottom Line; By installing a slip-on the engine gained 3.5 peak Hp over the stock muffler.
                    By adding the db killer to the slip-on the engine makes 1.16 less peak Hp than the stock muffler.

NOTE: Geez, that's hard to put into words. I reworded it 8 times to try to make it clearer...
          I hope it isn't too confusing?

IMPORTANT: Remember that dyno numbers are not absolute numbers.
          ie; Dyno's don't repeat run's exactly.
                 There is always a little variance between repeat runs.
                 Different dyno's do not give the same numbers.
                 Different conditions effect the numbers.
                 
               Ideally; On a Dyno you should do several runs with each muffler/condition, and average the numbers.

Ride safe, Ted

Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: strum on January 10, 2018, 04:20:15 pm
 Good thread guys .
  I have a Muzzys slip on and I just love the sound . The bike came with it so I have nothing to compare it to .
 Anyone have data on these?
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on January 10, 2018, 04:53:23 pm
Muzzy is out of business, it looks like a foriegn company may have purchaes it, based on some of the text I saw.

 To me, all of the slip ons are being fed by a 2" midpipe and are generally a 2" straight core. As such, all the power gains are going to be so close to each other that the differences are insignificant. Steve
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: strum on January 10, 2018, 07:22:50 pm
Thanks Steve. So from what Im seeing the "gains" are looks,weight, and sound. Not really a performance thing?
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on January 10, 2018, 07:26:01 pm
Thanks Steve. So from what Im seeing the "gains" are looks,weight, and sound. Not really a performance thing?

if anyone is buying a slip on for performance, they could find lots of other places to put their money... like in a jar under the big rock on the east side of the old barn  ;) . Seriously, I've seen a few dyno charts over the period of time I've been doing this, and generally a slip on is worth about 3 hp or so on a Concours. Based on primary pipe / cat / midpipe diameter, they're all going to be right at the same power level, despite the significant difference in costs. Steve
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: gpd323 on January 10, 2018, 10:26:56 pm
I installed Akrapovic slipons on my ZX14, did the ECU flash and it added 5 hp at WOT at max revs, that was it. TQ was up a bit, not much though. They still sound better and look better, but 5 hp on a bike putting down 171 hp at the rear wheel I bet no one could tell the diff.

I still like mt VH CS1 though on my C14
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on January 10, 2018, 10:49:42 pm
I have an area p slip on on my bike. I got it in a trade  :)

My two favorites for sound are the the CS1 and the area p.  to me the  2 brothers and the delk ar a bit raspy for my tastes. I have never heard an Akrapovic in the wild, but they do make nice stuff. Steve
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: RoadKillHeaven on January 11, 2018, 05:16:21 am
The only time I didn't regret installing aftermarket mufflers was on R1100S. It was Remus SS. It had transformed unfiltered stackato of boxer engine into GP inspired symphony! Loved it!
Other slip-ons I've tried over the years were more of disappointment than anything else.
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: connie_rider on January 11, 2018, 06:52:19 pm
The Slip-on Manufacturers are suspected of {err} enhancing their HP gains {which helps their sales }...   >:D
From actual dyno runs we've done, the 5 HP they claim is probably about 3-4 HP in the real world....

I'm gonna throw something out for you to ponder;
  For now, let's use 3.5 HP as the real number...
  Everyone here is scoffing at that possible 3.5 HP gain.
  I'm telling you, the 3.5 HP / etc* you gain,,, is not all that insignificant....
      (The etc* part is your main gain)

ie; That 3.5 HP is approx. 1/3 the power you gain (approx. 10 HP) with a good Flash.
     Now couple your new {lighter/Good Lookin'} slip-on with a Flash and the gain becomes more like a 12-15 HP gain..

All of a sudden, the small gains to got by installing that slip-on aren't so insignificant, are they?     ;)

PS*: While I'm stirring the {slip-on} pot; "look at the Torque and AFR plots on turbojoe's Slip-on run"...
      You'll see that the entire torque curve on that plot is smoother/higher,,, "and" the AFR has gone from slightly Rich to almost ideal.. 
                                                                 
          Both of those are "more" important than how much peak HP you gained at 9000 RPM..
                                                      "Thinkaboutit"

Ride safe, Ted

PS: I'm doing my approx. numbers from memory.
          Steve can correct me if I erred...
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: RoadKillHeaven on January 11, 2018, 09:34:51 pm
3.5 HP, eh?
FOGETABOUTIT
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: khager01 on January 11, 2018, 11:31:34 pm
I think the weight you lose should be worth another 1 hp.  Of course I could go on a diet and gain several  hp. 
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: ron203 on January 11, 2018, 11:37:35 pm
Weight loss: Now's there's a frugal farkle! FREE!!! I'm down 15# since September. Maybe that's worth something! But wait...everything's relative. I bought a heavier helmet and jacket. Crud. :-[
.
.
 .
I think I'll just go have a beer. What can it hurt?
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: COGnosticator on January 12, 2018, 10:16:48 am
Good thread guys .
  I have a Muzzys slip on and I just love the sound . The bike came with it so I have nothing to compare it to .
 Anyone have data on these?


Here is a dyno chart from my 2009 with a Muzzy slipon, with a custom map and PCv and flies removed.  Map came from Keith at Fuelmoto where I got the Muzzy and PCv.  Dyno run done by KWS motorsports Charleston SC

(http://a4.pbase.com/o6/75/452075/1/136327178.LlvtcYHZ.Dyno.jpg)
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: rcannon409 on January 12, 2018, 12:09:12 pm
Connie Rider, you make a good point with the 3.5 added hp.....Also, its not as if we have 47 choices on how we could add this 3.5hp.  Our choices at adding power pretty much amount to a reflash and  a pipe. 

Once we get past those two items, cost goes up as well as the need for  a skilled mechanic.
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: Pilgrim on January 12, 2018, 09:06:23 pm
Which looks better?
#1
(http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m207/Pilgrim32/Bikes/DSCN0200_zpsmuee3aki.jpg) (http://s105.photobucket.com/user/Pilgrim32/media/Bikes/DSCN0200_zpsmuee3aki.jpg.html)

#2
(http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m207/Pilgrim32/Bikes/DSCN0875_zpseakxym4a.jpg) (http://s105.photobucket.com/user/Pilgrim32/media/Bikes/DSCN0875_zpseakxym4a.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: 4Bikes on January 12, 2018, 11:39:54 pm
The fact that you zoomed in and it’s still smaller, aside from looks, makes this an easy answer. #2. Good comparo.
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: Jim Snyder on January 12, 2018, 11:51:31 pm
For those with the Delkevic mufflers, you can modify the baffles by drilling a large hole (3/4") in the front cap and get the best of both worlds, power and a little quieter muffler.
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: seagiant1 on January 13, 2018, 12:02:52 am
Hi,
      Thanks, for the pic's Pilgrim! :great:

Getting rid of that "potato launcher" was my first mod! :truce:

Jim, I might try that "Hole Trick" on my 18" CF Delk! ;D
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: JDSCO on January 13, 2018, 12:25:50 am
For those with the Delkevic mufflers, you can modify the baffles by drilling a large hole (3/4") in the front cap and get the best of both worlds, power and a little quieter muffler.

Definitely a good mod. I had to use an air grinder /carbide burr to get +3/4.

Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: Jim Snyder on January 13, 2018, 01:26:31 am
Hi,
      Thanks, for the pic's Pilgrim! :great:

Getting rid of that "potato launcher" was my first mod! :truce:

Jim, I might try that "Hole Trick" on my 18" CF Delk! ;D

I did this on all three of my Delkevic mufflers and it works.
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: rcannon409 on January 13, 2018, 03:22:29 pm
I vote for the stock potato launcher being better. Its the pipe you want if the Florida biker gangs are shooting at you. Crawling behind it will offer a decent level of protection.

The Delkevic brand surprises me. When they first came out, I expected a typical Chinese made product. That's been several years, and no one complains about their Delk. They appear to hold up very well, and look good.

Does anyone happen to have a pic of what their sound insert looks like?  The Leo Vince insert looks like this:
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: JDSCO on January 13, 2018, 03:48:59 pm
This is from my Delkevic 18" with Jim Snyder's mod in the end, +3/4 to 7/8.

Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: gpd323 on January 13, 2018, 03:57:10 pm
I vote for the stock potato launcher being better. Its the pipe you want if the Florida biker gangs are shooting at you. Crawling behind it will offer a decent level of protection.

The Delkevic brand surprises me. When they first came out, I expected a typical Chinese made product. That's been several years, and no one complains about their Delk. They appear to hold up very well, and look good.

Does anyone happen to have a pic of what their sound insert looks like?  The Leo Vince insert looks like this:

Akrapovic DB killers look exactly like that!
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: Tundra Tom on January 13, 2018, 04:53:10 pm
Went with the Carbon Fiber Area P, no dB killer needed. Perfect tone when mashing the throttle, could not hear it on the Highway.
I changed the Muffler out as much to rid the C-14 of the fugly "Scud" as sound and performance.
Of all the major manufacturers Kawi Mufflers are a abomination. Those design engineers need to put down the schweed before work.  ::)

http://areapnolimits.com/products/Slip-On-Exhaust-Kawasaki-Concours-14-2008.php (http://areapnolimits.com/products/Slip-On-Exhaust-Kawasaki-Concours-14-2008.php)
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: connie_rider on January 13, 2018, 05:29:16 pm
I have the exact Area P as Tom.

NOTE: Area P does not offer a baffle, but you can special order their Slip-on's with a smaller ID.
                  (I think the smaller ID Muffler's are used in Europe)

When I bought mine, I wanted to see if I could make it quieter, so I experimented and built my own baffle.
   It was very similar design to the one RC posted.
   When I installed it, I did not get a lot of noise reduction, but I did notice the reduction in high rpm power immediately.
   Needless to say, it's out of the muffler now..

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: Grant on January 13, 2018, 06:05:08 pm
The only reason I have been looking at slip-on's is the stock can looks hideous :( and full systems are a bit pricey for me. I am toying with the idea of building my own head pipe, basically a hybrid of the ZX/C14 pipe. The reason for building my own head pipe is also because the stock can is fugley.
I know many have gotten the ZX duels by simply using the ZX head pipe, but I would rather not kill the low end torque of the C14.
As far as performance increases, people should realize a single part will rarely gain you much of an increase. Horsepower gain claims made by aftermarket manufacturers are many times based on potential over the stock part when combined with other modifications.
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: Deltonian on January 13, 2018, 08:21:21 pm
I vote for the stock potato launcher being better. Its the pipe you want if the Florida biker gangs are shooting at you. Crawling behind it will offer a decent level of protection.

The Delkevic brand surprises me. When they first came out, I expected a typical Chinese made product. That's been several years, and no one complains about their Delk. They appear to hold up very well, and look good.

Does anyone happen to have a pic of what their sound insert looks like?  The Leo Vince insert looks like this:

Florida biker gangs??
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: connie_rider on January 13, 2018, 09:41:02 pm
The only reason I have been looking at slip-on's is the stock can looks hideous :( and full systems are a bit pricey for me. I am toying with the idea of building my own head pipe, basically a hybrid of the ZX/C14 pipe. The reason for building my own head pipe is also because the stock can is fugley.
I know many have gotten the ZX duels by simply using the ZX head pipe, but I would rather not kill the low end torque of the C14.
As far as performance increases, people should realize a single part will rarely gain you much of an increase. Horsepower gain claims made by aftermarket manufacturers are many times based on potential over the stock part when combined with other modifications.

I'll be interested to see what you develop.

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: rcannon409 on January 14, 2018, 03:06:38 pm
I vote for the stock potato launcher being better. Its the pipe you want if the Florida biker gangs are shooting at you. Crawling behind it will offer a decent level of protection.

The Delkevic brand surprises me. When they first came out, I expected a typical Chinese made product. That's been several years, and no one complains about their Delk. They appear to hold up very well, and look good.

Does anyone happen to have a pic of what their sound insert looks like?  The Leo Vince insert looks like this:

Florida biker gangs??

Steve mentioned Florida Biker gangs as being a real issue a few weeks back. I hoped you had seen his post. MY response would have made more sense.

I wish we had more technology going into noise reduction, but maybe Im being silly to think we could have small, compact, light and quiet?

Proof of that being impossible has to be the 2018 zx14 OEM exhaust, which is neither compact, light, or small.

Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: khager01 on January 14, 2018, 03:41:54 pm
I was in my local dealer yesterday getting some new tires mounted, looking around as I waited, I seen they had the new Z900RS,  and that bike has the best looking stock exhaust that I have seen in a long time from header to tip of muffler.  Nice looking bike too overall, only thing I don't like is the radiator.

http://s3.india.com/auto/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Kawasaki_Z900RS_009.jpg (http://s3.india.com/auto/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Kawasaki_Z900RS_009.jpg)

Also noticed they had a newer GSXR 1K and that thing had a car muffler hanging off the end of it.  I bet those get replaced real quick.  So I guess there are uglier exhaust's out there than the Connie.
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: gpd323 on January 14, 2018, 04:15:42 pm
I was in my local dealer yesterday getting some new tires mounted, looking around as I waited, I seen they had the new Z900RS,  and that bike has the best looking stock exhaust that I have seen in a long time from header to tip of muffler.  Nice looking bike too overall, only thing I don't like is the radiator.

[url]http://s3.india.com/auto/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Kawasaki_Z900RS_009.jpg[/url] ([url]http://s3.india.com/auto/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Kawasaki_Z900RS_009.jpg[/url])

Also noticed they had a newer GSXR 1K and that thing had a car muffler hanging off the end of it.  I bet those get replaced real quick.  So I guess there are uglier exhaust's out there than the Connie.


I picked up my RS yesterday, the stock exhaust is all one piece no slip-on. It will be expensive if someone does an exhaust. Akrapovic had  a one off on the European debut display. BTW: The exhaust sound is incredible on rising rev's and decell. Its music. Yes the radiator is out of place, but the rest is beautiful. Steve needs to get one on a dyno and soon!!!!!!!!!

Oh: It feels tiny compared to the C14.

UPDATE: The RS has a 2 piece exhaust and Akrapovic sells a slip on at over 700 bucks. Look ugly compared to the stock piece.
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: khager01 on January 14, 2018, 05:02:07 pm
Yeah I remember it looked tiny next to the ZX14 on the showroom floor they didn't have a Connie to compare to.  I bet it feels like a feather weight too. 

 I think they did a good job and I always liked the root beer and orange, I remember wanting a Z1 in the mid 70's but I was young and broke back then.
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: rcannon409 on January 15, 2018, 01:07:15 pm
The 900 rs exhaust does look nice. Also, its sound is really good. It really did not sound like a stock bike

I also think Honda does  a nice job on the exhaust for the cbr 650.
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: d04011 on January 15, 2018, 01:21:02 pm
If you don't like the stock "potato launcher" on the C-14, you definitely wouldn't like the stock mufflers on the ZX-14R.  It has TWO of those heavy, hideous monsters...  Went with 2 Brothers CF cans on both bikes.  I wasn't expecting huge performance improvements but hated the looks, weight and sound of the stock units...
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: Bruce_Reafsnider_TN on January 15, 2018, 02:53:07 pm
Is it just an optical delusion on my part, or does the Area P can look narrower in diameter at the mid pipe end than at the tail end?
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: connie_rider on January 15, 2018, 03:17:05 pm
Nah, no change in dia. over the length.

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: Buzzard on January 16, 2018, 12:56:39 am
I too like the new Z900RS- CAFE version in grey
Good chance if I didn't already have the connie Iwould be riding one of those
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: Egodriver71 on January 19, 2018, 11:43:22 am
If you don't like the stock "potato launcher" on the C-14, you definitely wouldn't like the stock mufflers on the ZX-14R.  It has TWO of those heavy, hideous monsters...

Interesting as that is what I went to from the huge single can and it looks a lot slimmer and more balanced...
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: rcannon409 on January 19, 2018, 01:17:16 pm
Yes the radiator is out of place, but the rest is beautiful. Steve needs to get one on a dyno and soon!!!!!!!!!

Oh: It feels tiny compared to the C14.

UPDATE: The RS has a 2 piece exhaust and Akrapovic sells a slip on at over 700 bucks. Look ugly compared to the stock piece.
[/quote]

You mentioned the rs is tiny.  Is it smaller than the original?

I know my perception is all screwed up in regards to this.  I remember riding my dads kz 900. I was 12, and there was no way I could touch the ground. When I stopped, he grabbed the handlebars. A silly thing to do, but this was back when seatbelts were just tucked under the seat, never to be heard from again.

In my mind, that original bike was HUGE.
Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: gpd323 on January 19, 2018, 03:22:23 pm
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I cannot tell you if its smaller or bigger, but some of the early pictures shows the old and new side by side. They look similar in size. The 4 pipes off the original makes it look larger in the rear that the RS.

Off to the garage to wire the Escort IX on the RS.

Title: Re: Slip ons - manufacturer claims
Post by: angelo on January 19, 2018, 10:51:06 pm
I don't think shaving 10 lbs off a bike this heavy is a big deal.  I don't think adding 3 or 4 or whatever HP to a bike like this is a big deal.  I DO feel that every time I roll on at apex and hear it make me smile is. 

Thank the cat or restraint or whatever, but I find it easy to make the Connie ok for the hood and a great soundtrack tearing up rural twisty roads.