Author Topic: So I understand the stock horn is considered wimpy...  (Read 716 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ZXtasy

  • Training Wheels
  • *
  • Posts: 89
  • It rides the bike or it gets the lotion!
  • AREA: Northwest Area
  • COG#: 12569
  • Membership Level: Active
So I understand the stock horn is considered wimpy...
« on: April 21, 2017, 02:05:35 am »
But mine on the recently purchased 2013 does not work at all. It was worth the 500 dollar discount, and I plan on T-shooting in full this weekend, just thought I would throw it out there to see if others have run into this. The wires and connections seem solid, fuse in box marked HORN is not blown.

I wil check with a multimeter to see if power is getting from the switch, then follow down the line. Maybe I should just upgrade at this juncture? What is the non 15 pound replacement of highest regard.
2013 ZG-1400, 2005 ZX-10R (Nekkid), 2012 TW-200, 1999 TW-200....and more to come.

Offline jwh20

  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1762
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
2012 Concours 14 Arabian Red
"Debbie Downer" according to some...

Offline ZXtasy

  • Training Wheels
  • *
  • Posts: 89
  • It rides the bike or it gets the lotion!
  • AREA: Northwest Area
  • COG#: 12569
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: So I understand the stock horn is considered wimpy...
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2017, 11:18:04 am »
Thank you!
2013 ZG-1400, 2005 ZX-10R (Nekkid), 2012 TW-200, 1999 TW-200....and more to come.

Offline Billy

  • Big Wheels
  • Posts: 9
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber

Offline ron203

  • Officer
  • Iron Butt
  • ****
  • Posts: 3424
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 9847
  • Membership Level: Area Director
Re: So I understand the stock horn is considered wimpy...
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2017, 11:47:47 am »
Some guys (including me) have used the original horn wiring to fire a dual horn Fiamm relay driven set up because of fear the duals would draw too much power for the circuit or the horn button. Using the horn button to fire a relay connected set up directly from the battery takes the load off the button or circuit. Makes your C-14 sound like a Buick  "honk-honk" instead of the factory "meep-meep."
2014 C-14  (red)

Offline Goldenhornplayer

  • Training Wheels
  • *
  • Posts: 64
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: So I understand the stock horn is considered wimpy...
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2017, 12:45:50 pm »
Some guys (including me) have used the original horn wiring to fire a dual horn Fiamm relay driven set up because of fear the duals would draw too much power for the circuit or the horn button. Using the horn button to fire a relay connected set up directly from the battery takes the load off the button or circuit. Makes your C-14 sound like a Buick  "honk-honk" instead of the factory "meep-meep."

I have a relay to use but can you tell me exactly where you tapped into the horn switch wire? Ideally, I'd like to mount the relay somewhere under the seat and run wires from there to the battery and horn. Of course, if you have a better suggestion, I'd love to hear it.
2014 C14 RED, EVO Flash
Also, '13 Honda F6B & '16 BMW S1000XR
COG Member 12530

Offline ron203

  • Officer
  • Iron Butt
  • ****
  • Posts: 3424
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 9847
  • Membership Level: Area Director
Re: So I understand the stock horn is considered wimpy...
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2017, 01:07:58 pm »
My relay is  zip-tied to a bracket under the right fairing up out of the way. Don't know if it's better, but on a C-14 it was easier. Very crowded under the surface. I kept it all up front. I like easy.

The relay hot wire (in) is connected to the OEM horn hot wire. So that pushing the horn button trips the relay.

The relay power wire (in) that ultimately powers the actual horns goes to the battery with an inline fuse. It only connects the battery to the relay.

That way, the relay power "OUT" power wire goes to the horns and is only hot when the handlebar horn button is pushed ( which provides power to close the relay, which connects to the battery, which makes the horns go "beep.")

I unplugged the OEM horn wires from the factory horn and removed the old horn. That left the original wiring to the horn button intact and a place to install the new horns.

The hot wire (trip wire) for the relay (in) got a crimp on  spade connector that connected to the power (to the OEM horn) wire (originally out to the horn) which was already connected to the horn button. So I didn't have to go into the switch at all. Get a connector that looks like the terminal on the factory horn.

If the aftermarket horns fail or no longer suit me, I'll unplug the connection and reinstall the OEM horn. The relay ground wire is connected to the OEM ground wire.

Just leave enough slack to route around and through the forks down to the horn. After I did the install, I got 1/2" (I think) flex-tube at Home Depot and encased all the wires to make it look nice and neat. You really don't notice it if you look down if front of the tank.

There's an article in the Concourier an issue or two back that a friend and I did on how we did this on our C-14's
2014 C-14  (red)

Offline jwh20

  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1762
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: So I understand the stock horn is considered wimpy...
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2017, 01:11:40 pm »
The horn is on a 10A circuit/fuse.  So unless you are adding double Fiamm's you should be OK just to wire it in in place of the OEM horn.
2012 Concours 14 Arabian Red
"Debbie Downer" according to some...

Offline ron203

  • Officer
  • Iron Butt
  • ****
  • Posts: 3424
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 9847
  • Membership Level: Area Director
Re: So I understand the stock horn is considered wimpy...
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2017, 01:15:54 pm »
I don't recall, but is that circuit pulling anything else? Seems like I (vaguely as usual) recall that it might be? Worth looking into.
2014 C-14  (red)

Offline Goldenhornplayer

  • Training Wheels
  • *
  • Posts: 64
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: So I understand the stock horn is considered wimpy...
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2017, 01:35:30 pm »
Thanks, Ron, for the details  :great:. As far as the load is concerned, I guess we're more concerned about what the switch itself can handle than what the circuit/fuse can handle, right? I don't know what current the OEM switch is rated for but I can imagine possibly damaging the switch by passing more current that it's designed for.
2014 C14 RED, EVO Flash
Also, '13 Honda F6B & '16 BMW S1000XR
COG Member 12530

Offline ron203

  • Officer
  • Iron Butt
  • ****
  • Posts: 3424
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 9847
  • Membership Level: Area Director
Re: So I understand the stock horn is considered wimpy...
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2017, 04:39:56 pm »
That was my take on it based on what some others said at the time.

A fuse is cheap, not so much the switch. Also, with no idea what load the wiring can take, an electrical meltdown or fire was not a particularly desirable outcome either. My thought was that in just using the switch as a relay "trip" I could size the wires, load, etc.beyond that point. I'm not an electrical guy, just my thoughts. It might all be okay, or not.
2014 C-14  (red)

Offline jwh20

  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1762
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: So I understand the stock horn is considered wimpy...
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2017, 05:07:18 pm »
The fuses are sized according to the wire capacity and the wire capacity is sized according to the load.  Same with the switch.  The OEM fuse is 10A, I wouldn't worry about running the 6A that the Fiamm horn is spec'd to take.
2012 Concours 14 Arabian Red
"Debbie Downer" according to some...

Offline ron203

  • Officer
  • Iron Butt
  • ****
  • Posts: 3424
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 9847
  • Membership Level: Area Director
Re: So I understand the stock horn is considered wimpy...
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2017, 05:30:01 pm »
If that's the case, no. But, I'm still not convinced (haven't searched it out) that the horn circuit is separate from the accessory circuit. That one was downsized I think to 5A after the first couple of model years. But then...I could be wrong.  ;D
2014 C-14  (red)

Offline jwh20

  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1762
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: So I understand the stock horn is considered wimpy...
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2017, 05:38:34 pm »
I think the horn is on a circuit by itself.  Horns are really "noisy" from an electrical standpoint as well as auditory, so sharing circuits with them is uncommon.  An easy way to tell would be to pull the horn fuse and see if anything else quits working.
2012 Concours 14 Arabian Red
"Debbie Downer" according to some...

Offline ron203

  • Officer
  • Iron Butt
  • ****
  • Posts: 3424
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 9847
  • Membership Level: Area Director
Re: So I understand the stock horn is considered wimpy...
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2017, 05:43:30 pm »
That's a good idea. Like I said, I might be wrong. I was mistaken about that once before.....

Some interesting reading here http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-14-zg1400-general-chat-and-tech/upgrade-for-c14-horn/

Back to work....
2014 C-14  (red)

Offline SVonhof

  • Tricycle
  • Posts: 17
  • AREA: Southwest Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: So I understand the stock horn is considered wimpy...
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2017, 10:43:02 pm »
On the other thread, the PIAA sport horns are mentioned. They also have the Slim Line models which may be a better choice for us.

They are smaller and would be easier to mount and might fit in the stock location.

$54 for the 400 and 500 hz tones on Amazon vs the same price for the single 500 hz? Seems strange.

https://www.amazon.com/85114-400Hz-500Hz-112db-Sports/dp/B004FXMGLY/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1492816306&sr=1-1&keywords=PIAA+sport+horns

Offline Dirtwiz

  • Scooter
  • ***
  • Posts: 272
  • AREA: Southwest Area
  • COG#: 12372
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: So I understand the stock horn is considered wimpy...
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2017, 11:54:49 pm »
So does the dual El Grande setup fit on the same mount  as the OEM C14 horn?? I know some of the aftermarket horns need to be relocated since there is a clearance problem with the fender.
In theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice, they aren't. Without data you are just another guy with an opinion.