Author Topic: Tender leads, fuse block and jumpstarting question  (Read 1231 times)

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Offline Jerdurr

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Tender leads, fuse block and jumpstarting question
« on: January 30, 2018, 03:18:28 pm »
Guys, I have a Fuse block coming in the mail. Since the space available for cables within the battery bay is super limited, is it safe to plug the tender through a fuse block? moreover, what amperage fuse would I need, if I want to use those same leads to jump start the bike in case the battery gets drained?

I have a NOCO battery tender, and it comes with a pair of jump-start pliers that hook on straight to the same cable leads used for the tender function.

Thanks!
Jeremy
Best,

JD

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Offline jwh20

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Re: Tender leads, fuse block and jumpstarting question
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2018, 05:05:46 pm »
Just a note that you should size the fuse based on the current carrying capacity of the WIRES, not of the perceived need for current, just as to jump start.  Usually tender leads are something like 14 ga. wire and you will not want to use a fuse with more than about a 10A rating.  That, of course, is not enough to jump start with.  Not even close. 

I suggest you not try to use tender leads for jump starting.  Use jumper cables.  Even light-duty ones are probably #0 gauge wire since the currents can be 100A or more.
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Offline gsun

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Re: Tender leads, fuse block and jumpstarting question
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2018, 03:33:04 am »
Just hook up the tender to the battery. Lots of room for that and let the plug hang down tucked into the fairing. When you jump start it, you only have to remove the battery cover and pull out the battery a bit as the positive is nearest you and the neg is grounded to the frame right there.

Offline Jerdurr

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Re: Tender leads, fuse block and jumpstarting question
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2018, 04:37:08 am »
Just hook up the tender to the battery. Lots of room for that and let the plug hang down tucked into the fairing. When you jump start it, you only have to remove the battery cover and pull out the battery a bit as the positive is nearest you and the neg is grounded to the frame right there.
My whole point was to hook up the tender to the fuse block, due to lack of space, hence the question whether i could use that lead through the fuse block to jump start, but i already understood that i can't. If i need to jump start, which i hope i won't, i'll do what u recommended

Thanks guys.
Best,

JD

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Offline JTX

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Re: Tender leads, fuse block and jumpstarting question
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2018, 11:46:44 pm »
Guys, I have a Fuse block coming in the mail. Since the space available for cables within the battery bay is super limited, is it safe to plug the tender through a fuse block? moreover, what amperage fuse would I need, if I want to use those same leads to jump start the bike in case the battery gets drained?

I have a NOCO battery tender, and it comes with a pair of jump-start pliers that hook on straight to the same cable leads used for the tender function.

Thanks!
Jeremy


You cant jump start through the battery tender leads.  It'll draw 20amps.


I have 30amp rated wire ( Whatever the battery cable wire gauge is I cant remember ) running to my fuse block and ground bus bar to the battery  + / -.   


I put my battery tender on one of the connections on the fuse block with the correct rated fuse or around 7amp for charging. 




If I jump start, I will connect direct to the battery terminal which is exposed if you take off the battery cable.


The negative clips to the footpeg or frame rail somewhere.

Offline Deepsea

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Re: Tender leads, fuse block and jumpstarting question
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2018, 09:21:35 am »
After I was left stranded by a faulty battery I purchased a Jump Starter Battery Pack. The leads that come with it have clips on the ends for connecting to the battery. I cut them off and crimped/soldered new terminals on then installed them to the battery + and frame -. The end that connects to the jump pack is routed out to the inside of the lower R/H fairing where I can reach in and grab it.
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Offline JTX

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Re: Tender leads, fuse block and jumpstarting question
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2018, 10:13:22 am »
After I was left stranded by a faulty battery I purchased a Jump Starter Battery Pack. The leads that come with it have clips on the ends for connecting to the battery. I cut them off and crimped/soldered new terminals on then installed them to the battery + and frame -. The end that connects to the jump pack is routed out to the inside of the lower R/H fairing where I can reach in and grab it.


The problem is theres not room for more than one connection on the battery.

Offline Jerdurr

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Re: Tender leads, fuse block and jumpstarting question
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2018, 01:50:48 pm »
After I was left stranded by a faulty battery I purchased a Jump Starter Battery Pack. The leads that come with it have clips on the ends for connecting to the battery. I cut them off and crimped/soldered new terminals on then installed them to the battery + and frame -. The end that connects to the jump pack is routed out to the inside of the lower R/H fairing where I can reach in and grab it.


The problem is theres not room for more than one connection on the battery.

correct.... which is why I was asking this question in the first place. Still, I appreciate everyone's responses!
Best,

JD

--Harley Davidson is king when it comes to turning gas into smoke, without the outcome of power--

Offline Deepsea

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Re: Tender leads, fuse block and jumpstarting question
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2018, 07:40:01 pm »
With a little care you can get more than one connection directly on the battery. I have three.
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Offline gsun

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Re: Tender leads, fuse block and jumpstarting question
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2018, 07:49:55 pm »
I have three as well.

Offline Jerdurr

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Re: Tender leads, fuse block and jumpstarting question
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2018, 05:22:39 pm »
Ok, so a follow up question; how is the tender supposed to be wired through the fuse block? Would it damage any of the other circuits connected to it, considering it will not be a switched fuse block?
Or can I just connect it straight to a positive terminal on the fuse block with a nice 30 amp fuse, and off I go?

Thanks guys! >:D
Best,

JD

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Offline TimR

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Re: Tender leads, fuse block and jumpstarting question
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2018, 06:31:07 pm »
Like Deepsea, my tender leads are hooked directly to the battery terminals. My tender lead has it's own built in fuse holder. The tender lead is also tucked in behind the fairing to keep it out of the way be easy to get to when needed.
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Offline Jerdurr

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Re: Tender leads, fuse block and jumpstarting question
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2018, 06:39:34 pm »
Like Deepsea, my tender leads are hooked directly to the battery terminals. My tender lead has it's own built in fuse holder. The tender lead is also tucked in behind the fairing to keep it out of the way be easy to get to when needed.
so are mine now, but the point of the question was to minimize the amount of cabling connected directly to the battery and use the fuse block for that... Hence my question.  ;)
Best,

JD

--Harley Davidson is king when it comes to turning gas into smoke, without the outcome of power--

Offline gsun

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Re: Tender leads, fuse block and jumpstarting question
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2018, 02:21:48 am »
I don't think you can fit that thick of a wire that is needed for jumping into the Fuzeblock. That is, the brand Fuzeblock. Don't know what you have.

Offline Jerdurr

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Re: Tender leads, fuse block and jumpstarting question
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2018, 03:26:03 pm »
I don't think you can fit that thick of a wire that is needed for jumping into the Fuzeblock. That is, the brand Fuzeblock. Don't know what you have.
No no, I got that in the initial first few posts... What I want to do is plug in the tender cables (not jumper cables) into a fuse block (not fuze block). The one I got handles up to 100 amps, which i think the tender (light charging) goes up to 15 amps, so should be alright.

I guess my question, steming from Electrical ignorance is, If I plug in the positive from the tender onto the positive terminal of the block (the big one, not one of the fused ones), and the negative to the frame, will it "tender" properly? My guess is yes, but i'd like your input. I just wonder if it may cause any other issues to the other circuits included in the fuse block, but now that I think deeper about it, it shouldn't cause any issues, correct?
Best,

JD

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Offline smithr1

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Re: Tender leads, fuse block and jumpstarting question
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2018, 04:13:10 pm »
There should be no issue but for some reason the manual says to only charge the battery out of the bike. 
I have charged with tender on the terminals in the bike as others have with no issues.   The only difference with the fuzz block connection is it will be putting the charge voltage on the other units you have on the block.   But when you start the bike it has charging voltage on it too.   I say it should be fine.  Unless the block is relayed on and off it will power those things on the block anyway even if connecting direct to the battery terminals.  Yes hook the + to + of the block input.
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Offline 4Bikes

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Re: Tender leads, fuse block and jumpstarting question
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2018, 04:58:00 pm »
As far as the battery box space and battery connections goes, get an Earthx Lithium Iron Battery.  They supply foam pads to fill in all of the extra battery box space.  They also provide several options and positions for the battery connections. 
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Offline Jerdurr

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Re: Tender leads, fuse block and jumpstarting question
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2018, 05:26:19 pm »
There should be no issue but for some reason the manual says to only charge the battery out of the bike. 
I have charged with tender on the terminals in the bike as others have with no issues.   The only difference with the fuzz block connection is it will be putting the charge voltage on the other units you have on the block.   But when you start the bike it has charging voltage on it too.   I say it should be fine.  Unless the block is relayed on and off it will power those things on the block anyway even if connecting direct to the battery terminals.  Yes hook the + to + of the block input.
Awesome, thanks Smithr1, that was my assumption. Now all i need is to find a way to route the cables to the fuse box which I will locate in the tool box section, without having to lift the tank and stuff, feels a bit out of my league.

Not a fan of Lithium batteries, with the temperatures here in Canada, I'd rather stick to regular style Yuasa or the like.
Best,

JD

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Offline 4Bikes

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Re: Tender leads, fuse block and jumpstarting question
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2018, 07:02:03 pm »
I understand the concerns with cold weather and lithium batteries, and some of that is overstated for motorcycles since who really rides when it's zero degrees?     EarthX being a Lithium Iron is one that is ahead of that curve, and if you really need to have cold starting, they sell snowmobile batteries you could put in your MC that will start at -25 degrees.  One thing to understand about the difference and why lithium's get a bad rap in the cold, is that for a lead acid battery in the cold, the first cold start attempt will be your best.  But, for a lithium, the first cold start attempt will be your worst (if you don't send some current though it) and it gets much better the next time you try and will ultimately have more cranking amps. 

I have used the EarthX for 3 years so far.  Not the cheapest battery, but I have full confidence in it and expect it to last 4 more years without thinking about it.  Its impossible to discharge below 9 volts due to battery protection circuitry.   
« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 07:05:21 pm by 4Bikes »
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Offline TimR

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Re: Tender leads, fuse block and jumpstarting question
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2018, 07:06:01 am »
Quote
I'd rather stick to regular style Yuasa or the like.

The Yuasa in my C14 works great. I put it in around the beginning of last season.


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Offline JTX

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Re: Tender leads, fuse block and jumpstarting question
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2018, 10:12:13 am »
There should be no issue but for some reason the manual says to only charge the battery out of the bike. 
I have charged with tender on the terminals in the bike as others have with no issues.   The only difference with the fuzz block connection is it will be putting the charge voltage on the other units you have on the block.   But when you start the bike it has charging voltage on it too.   I say it should be fine.  Unless the block is relayed on and off it will power those things on the block anyway even if connecting direct to the battery terminals.  Yes hook the + to + of the block input.
Awesome, thanks Smithr1, that was my assumption. Now all i need is to find a way to route the cables to the fuse box which I will locate in the tool box section, without having to lift the tank and stuff, feels a bit out of my league.

Not a fan of Lithium batteries, with the temperatures here in Canada, I'd rather stick to regular style Yuasa or the like.






Removing the tank is really easy.  Theres a couple wires under there you need to remove so you dont yank them off.  A couple rags to catch some gas drip. and you pull the fuel line off with the clip it uses to retain it.


Not hard.  Then you can get to the back of the battery where you route the power.

Offline 4Bikes

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Re: Tender leads, fuse block and jumpstarting question
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2018, 11:53:42 am »
I ran a harness from the fuse block (located in the tool kit) though the battery box to the front without removing the tank.  It routes to the battery box to provide the feed to the fuse block and the power to the horn relay directly from the battery that was not on the fuse block.  I use the USB connectors in the tool kit to power the saddle bags.  When you close the tool box cover, it stays dry. 

I think you will find there is plenty of room by lifting the tank and not needing to disconnect anything.  BTW, those braided wiring looms are great. 







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Offline Jerdurr

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Re: Tender leads, fuse block and jumpstarting question
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2018, 02:17:25 pm »
I ran a harness from the fuse block (located in the tool kit) though the battery box to the front without removing the tank.  It routes to the battery box to provide the feed to the fuse block and the power to the horn relay directly from the battery that was not on the fuse block.  I use the USB connectors in the tool kit to power the saddle bags.  When you close the tool box cover, it stays dry. 

I think you will find there is plenty of room by lifting the tank and not needing to disconnect anything.  BTW, those braided wiring looms are great. 

Looks awesome and I'm sure the end result is super neat, but yeah, it does go a little beyond my ability. Out of curiosity, how did you manage to "fish" the cables through the innards of the bike?
Best,

JD

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Offline 4Bikes

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Re: Tender leads, fuse block and jumpstarting question
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2018, 02:43:23 pm »
An easy way to fish is to use a long solid piece of 12 or 14 ga copper wire, and tie off your wires to it.    Put a flashlight at the location you are going, and then find then best suitable open space that won't interfere with the removal of a sub frame member, or come in contact with any moving parts or heat.  You will hate yourself if wires need to be removed to take something apart in the future.  It's pretty simple to get from the back of the bike to the front.  I recommend running a few spare wires with numbers for the future.  You can see my spares coiled up in the right side of the tool box.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 03:50:30 pm by 4Bikes »
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