Author Topic: Throttle Abruptness - your opinion?  (Read 3390 times)

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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Throttle Abruptness - your opinion?
« on: September 10, 2015, 01:53:51 pm »
  One thing that I REALLY disliked about my c-14 is the throttle abruptness from off to on throttle. You know, that feeling that you're using a light switch instead of a linear throttle. I found while remapping that the secondaries are largely responsible for that; when you slightly close the throttle the secondaries slam shut, as if you completely closed the throttle. Altering the secondary opening has really removed that feeling.

 But I have a question, and it's very timely... I can alter the secondaries to a point that the bike loses a serious amount of throttle decel capability. Very smooth on fully closing, then opening throttle, but if you use the throttle to control speed (IE mountain riding) then there is less engine braking effect available. I have played with this, and at this point I kind of like the extra  closed throttle braking, but it does give a little more of that "barely open" abruptness. Not much, and worth it to me to maintain the engine braking, but some may not call it "perfect" for everyday riding.

  What say you? would you trade a very smooth throttle off / on transition for less engine braking? Which is more important to you? Steve
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Offline SAS Mayhem

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Re: Throttle Abruptness - your opinion?
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2015, 02:12:45 pm »
 :goodpost:

I would rather smooth throttle off transition, unless I'm riding very aggressive (which I don't really do), I really don't need the engine braking that much. Even in the mountains here in WNC, through the twists and elevation changes as long as I set up my turns correctly I didn't need it. And this also make my passenger happier. Just my opinion.



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Ron
« Last Edit: September 10, 2015, 02:30:42 pm by SAS Mayhem »
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Offline dan4aspen

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Re: Throttle Abruptness - your opinion?
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2015, 02:21:30 pm »
Engine braking is very important!!
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Offline Shepcam

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Re: Throttle Abruptness - your opinion?
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2015, 02:24:22 pm »
I think the response is pretty smooth myself. If you think the C-14 is jerky, try riding a KTM 990 Adventure, it was really bad, like if you breathed hard it would throw you of the back! :motonoises:
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Offline David

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Re: Throttle Abruptness - your opinion?
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2015, 02:40:32 pm »
Prefer smooth transition, first thing I had to get used to...when you close the throttle bike fell off the edge totally.

Offline mnofpeace

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Re: Throttle Abruptness - your opinion?
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2015, 02:46:48 pm »

Ive found that its both the butterflies along with the EFI.  I used to race carb'd bikes for years, and as soon as i moved onto FI bikes, that throttle resposne was very abrupt also.  But a few more days at the track, and miles on the street, and i have been able to erase it pretty much completely.

how do you get to Carnegie Hall?  Practice practice practice.


also...using higher revs and learning to play with your clutch engagement helps as well.

you want to see abruptness, try riding a Vtwin bike thru a turn...
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Offline connie and me

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Re: Throttle Abruptness - your opinion?
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2015, 04:55:16 pm »
Another good reason to just take em out?  after thinking about it, my bike has Excellent de-acceleration characteristics , ie, just like a class 8 truck with engine retard( jake brake)  it does NOT freewheel at all,, I wish the bike freewheeled more. Does the Guel reflash help this? or is that just for opening, and staying open under acceleration?
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Throttle Abruptness - your opinion?
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2015, 06:27:13 pm »
I've become so used to using the engine braking on this bike I would hate to loose that feature.... but mine doesn't seem to be as abrupt on acceleration as many people seem to experience. Maybe I just dialed the correct amount of slack in the cables since I bought it... or simply became smoother on the transisitions.
I do tend to make the bike live around 4k rpm tho, which does highlight the slipper clutch decelleration nicely.

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Offline CW

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Re: Throttle Abruptness - your opinion?
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2015, 06:31:08 pm »
I think the response is pretty smooth myself. If you think the C-14 is jerky, try riding a KTM 990 Adventure, it was really bad, like if you breathed hard it would throw you of the back! :motonoises:

+1.  I haven't noticed any abruptness in my 2010...30,000 miles so far. Lucky I guess.
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Offline JimH_PA

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Re: Throttle Abruptness - your opinion?
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2015, 07:35:41 pm »
   I have been using the eco mode lately just for that reason.  I find that it is very hard to get a nice smooth shift when not riding aggressively.  If I had a passenger we would be hitting helmets.....I thought it was just me.....the abruptness would be great to get rid of.  I am sure there can be a happy medium.   
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Offline cuda

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Re: Throttle Abruptness - your opinion?
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2015, 09:26:26 pm »
No problem here ... ???

Technique, when I bought some parts the guy threw in a throttle  tamer want me to send it to ya?

I'm a aggressive down shifter , brakes last forever .. :whoo:
« Last Edit: September 11, 2015, 09:34:18 am by cuda »
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Offline Zarticus

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Re: Throttle Abruptness - your opinion?
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2015, 09:36:48 pm »
I like the engine braking, Especially in the mountains. I'll take that over the throttle being smoother if I had to make a choice.
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Offline Mage

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Re: Throttle Abruptness - your opinion?
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2015, 09:46:06 pm »
I don't have a problem with shifting - I just put a little "pre-load" on the lever, right before using the clutch.  Nice smooth shift every time.  Works on almost all mc transmissions I have used.

The darn throttle is just too sensitive.  Not only does it do the "abrupt" thing mentioned above, it also makes it hard to maintain a steady speed. 

Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: Throttle Abruptness - your opinion?
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2015, 11:50:03 pm »
Mine (no flies) is very abrupt and so is the track bike I borrow and so is my KTM and I like it this way. I need  to have good engine braking as it is very important to me and the way I ride. The only time I have to be careful is when I am standing up to stretch my legs or coming out of a hard turn (no traction control).  Wrist control is a learned skill and takes practice.
I have gotten used to all these bikes and  I can shift them as smooth as glass without using the clutch even when not riding aggressively.
No issues at all with cruising and maintaining a steady speed. The Rostra has no issues either.
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« Last Edit: September 11, 2015, 12:00:31 am by Daytona_Mike »
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Offline connie_rider

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Re: Throttle Abruptness - your opinion?
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2015, 11:59:38 pm »
I don't have a problem with shifting - I just put a little "pre-load" on the lever, right before using the clutch.  Nice smooth shift every time.  Works on almost all mc transmissions I have used.

The darn throttle is just too sensitive.  Not only does it do the "abrupt" thing mentioned above, it also makes it hard to maintain a steady speed.
Like Mage, I want smoothness.
I've been considering a Throttle tamer to smooth the throttle.
Does anyone currently use a throttle tamer and is it working for you?

(Assuming the throttle tamer is successful) If a person had a throttle tamer, would it would work with the reflash (that causes more engine braking) to give you the best of both worlds?

Ride safe, Ted
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Offline SAS Mayhem

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Re: Throttle Abruptness - your opinion?
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2015, 09:00:25 am »
I don't have a problem with shifting - I just put a little "pre-load" on the lever, right before using the clutch.  Nice smooth shift every time.  Works on almost all mc transmissions I have used.

The darn throttle is just too sensitive.  Not only does it do the "abrupt" thing mentioned above, it also makes it hard to maintain a steady speed.
Like Mage, I want smoothness.
I've been considering a Throttle tamer to smooth the throttle.
Does anyone currently use a throttle tamer and is it working for you?


(Assuming the throttle tamer is successful) If a person had a throttle tamer, would it would work with the reflash (that causes more engine braking) to give you the best of both worlds?

Ride safe, Ted

Yes it works as advertised. I just got mine on 2 days ago and the snatching is all gone. My biggest test was heading home, and turning off a paved road onto a heavy gravel road. It's so bumpy that it was impossible for me to smoothly go the 1/2 mile trek up mountain.  Total different story now with the throttle tamer. 

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Ron
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Offline gPink

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Re: Throttle Abruptness - your opinion?
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2015, 09:59:20 am »
How do the secondaries contribute to engine braking? If you're off the throttle at a high enough rpm for significant engine braking to occur the mains have already closed rendering the position of the secondaries irrelevant. Just asking as I am a not a mechanic or tuner.

Offline BBroj

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Re: Throttle Abruptness - your opinion?
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2015, 01:16:41 pm »
I like and use the bikes engine braking, but do find the throttle a bit abrupt. I experience this mostly exiting tight turns,  like in town intersections where I'm going from fully closed (or nearly closed) to accelerating. I keep meaning to adjust cable slack hoping to alleviate this, but haven't gotten to it yet. Maybe today...
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Offline connie_rider

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Re: Throttle Abruptness - your opinion?
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2015, 02:45:23 pm »
Thanks SAS. Good answer.. I'm interested knowing if others are also using the tamer. Is anyone else using one?

I just re-read Steve's original post.
He said;  I found while remapping that the secondaries are largely responsible for that; when you "slightly" close the throttle the secondaries slam shut, as if you completely closed the throttle.

If I understand that statement correctly, the Throttle Tamer will not cure what he's asking about. The tamer will make opening and closing the slides smoother. But, if the secondary's suddenly close when the throttle is "slightly" (partially) closed  the Tamer will have no effect during decells..
Sounds like the program suddenly closes them to speed up the engine braking process (before the slides close).

Assuming I have this right (?),  I'd prefer that the secondary's close slower (or remain slightly open), as I prefer smoothness when decelerating, instead of a sudden decell.

Ride safe, Ted

« Last Edit: September 11, 2015, 03:47:24 pm by connie_rider »
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Offline ANZAC

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Re: Throttle Abruptness - your opinion?
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2015, 03:30:52 pm »
Must have engine braking.

Throttle is not bad on this bike.  Try a Street Triple and you will experience a sensitive throttle  :o


Offline SAS Mayhem

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Re: Throttle Abruptness - your opinion?
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2015, 03:49:10 pm »
Thanks SAS. Good answer.. I'm interested knowing if others are also using the tamer. Is anyone else using one?

I just re-read Steve's original post.
He said;  I found while remapping that the secondaries are largely responsible for that; when you "slightly" close the throttle the secondaries slam shut, as if you completely closed the throttle.

If I understand that statement correctly, the Throttle Tamer will not cure what he's asking about. The tamer will make opening and closing the slides smoother. But, if the secondary's suddenly close when the throttle is "slightly" (partially) closed  the Tamer will have no effect during decells..
Sounds like the program suddenly closes them to speed up the engine braking process (before the slides close).

Assuming I have this right (?),  I'd prefer that the secondary's close slower (or remain slightly open), as I prefer smoothness when decelerating, instead of a sudden decell.

Ride safe, Ted

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Offline Jon

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Re: Throttle Abruptness - your opinion?
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2015, 04:03:38 pm »
I wouldn't mind it being a bit smoother, but I do like the engine breaking feature.

Jon

Offline SilverConnieRider

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Re: Throttle Abruptness - your opinion?
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2015, 06:11:12 pm »
I decided to try and reduce the abruptness of my bike.

So thinking about it and seeing something online that cost money I decided to try and do something myself.
By reducing the diameter of the circle that the throttle cable rides on it would not turn so quickly.
Thereby giving a slower and smoother opening of the throttle.

I took apart the throttle grip and removed the cable and then filed a groove with a small round file.
This reduced the circle at the beginning of the throttle pull from idle or just slightly on.

I only filed about an inch as I only wanted to effect the initial throttle abruptness that appeared when
doing slow turns etc. but has no effect on full open throttle uses.


This is the groove I filed - I stated out with this knowing I could always go more.
After using this for a month or more it does IMO reduce the abruptness that was present before I did this MOD.


BEST PART it was FREE except for an hours work.  Yes I vacuumed up many times to keep the plastic dust from
getting into or onto the cables or the grip area and creating a rough turning throttle grip- mine is very smooth.





Here you can see the cable lies in the groove and not on top of the circle.



I have noticed NO difference ON engine breaking at all - just so you know.

Offline connie_rider

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Re: Throttle Abruptness - your opinion?
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2015, 06:52:09 pm »
SilverConnieRider,,, I REALLY like the way you think!   :great:
I was trying to come up with a way to modify mine, but hadn't thought of that. (Duhh)  :-[
NOTE: I think I even have a spare throttle to play with.

Ride safe, Ted
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Offline Robby1953

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Re: Throttle Abruptness - your opinion?
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2015, 11:37:13 pm »
Mine (2010) doesn't seem to be that abrupt, I wouldn't want to loose the engine breaking I have now.
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