Author Topic: TPMS Batteries  (Read 2011 times)

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Offline BDF

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Re: TPMS Batteries
« Reply #25 on: June 22, 2017, 02:33:16 pm »
Kawasaki uses proprietary code to force Kawasaki owners to buy the sensors from them. That is why a $20 sensor is $300 and we have no choice.

Perfectly legal thing to do but do enough of it and the brand's customer base will look elsewhere. Brown and Sharpe was famous for using all kinds of one- off bolt and screw sizes on their machines, forcing the customers to go back to them for everything. It did not win them any friends before they went under. But many if not most production companies do do this to some degree or other. Again, the key seems to be to use enough to make a little 'extra' money on the product without totally alienating your customer base. So Kawasaki does it with the tire pressure sensors but if they used 17 1/2" tires, it would probably seriously hurt or kill sales 'cause a 'Kawasaki- Michilin PR4' in that size would be painfully expensive and impossible to find outside the dealer network.

Brian

I have not finished searching all the TPMS threads yet, but is a 315Mhz TPMS  a 315Hhz TPMS, or are there differences in the authentication codes or protocol or something? You can buy a 315Mhz TPMS for $22 on eBAy, has anyone with KDS3 experimented with that?
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: TPMS Batteries
« Reply #26 on: June 22, 2017, 02:54:32 pm »
 :))
Don't give them any ideas Brian... you don't think the M/C industry isn't poised and waiting to set a "new" tire standard of 17-3/8" or 16-7/8" soon?

They just can't leave us alone can they.... :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
Just like they pulled when we were all happy and could buy great tires, that matched, for the old C10.... :rotflmao:

You mentioned special fasteners, ever had any experience in the thread (fastener) sizes used in the sewing machine industry?
It would make your head spin....insane thread pitch and sizes....
I worked for a while in the industry designing high speed embroidery machines, with like 5 to 20 stations, And never realized until then about the screw sizes used...

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Offline Mad River Marc

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Re: TPMS Batteries
« Reply #27 on: June 22, 2017, 03:04:25 pm »
Hey Brian,
Long time no speak amigo!!!!!


I actually found a source for batteries with the tabs already welded on, I got 20 batteries for 11 bucks shipped.  they came in yesteday and I tested a few and found them to have a HIGHER charge then the Sony's I was testing with.  I was just doing this experiment because I seem to recall some people saying they just solder to the batteries and I didn't want to do that since I figured it would damage them (and my experiment proved right)

FYI as of this morning, both of my test batteries are stone dead :(


It does suck that Kawi does all it can to force us to buy expensive sensors needlessly,  even worse since the original sensors could be disassembled (relatively) easily whereas the new sensors have the battery potted in resin GRRRRR.

However, I seem to recall Matt N found a place on Ebay selling the new style sensors (even with the Kawi branding on them ) for 15 bucks a piece...not sure if he got them to register properly tho :)

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Offline connie_rider

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Re: TPMS Batteries
« Reply #28 on: June 22, 2017, 03:07:54 pm »
FYI as of this morning, both of my test batteries are stone dead :(

Are your test batteries, 2 of the 20 you just bought??

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Offline jwh20

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Re: TPMS Batteries
« Reply #29 on: June 22, 2017, 03:09:56 pm »
However, I seem to recall Matt N found a place on Ebay selling the new style sensors (even with the Kawi branding on them ) for 15 bucks a piece...not sure if he got them to register properly tho :)

The report is that YES, he was able to register them. That's the good news.  The bad news is that the supplier who had them is now showing "out of stock".
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Offline Mad River Marc

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Re: TPMS Batteries
« Reply #30 on: June 22, 2017, 03:23:47 pm »
Are your test batteries, 2 of the 20 you just bought??

No, the 2 batteries I soldered to as part of this test :)    The ones with the tabs pre-welded are still full as far as I know
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Offline Harry Martin

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Re: TPMS Batteries
« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2017, 08:25:16 pm »
I would consider letting mine die and let them be.
I would consider this as an alternative farkle enhancement to get for my C14!

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/131744



The GPS is designed for a bike and can read the screw-on TPMS sensors.
Batteries are replaceable. It's a smart system that can detect slow leaks.
I can start saving my pennies now and when my current system craps out, get the new GPS farkle, and new sensors.
From what I'm reading, TPMS technology is changing very rapidly.

The dealers and tire shops don't like them along with the customers forced to buy them when they crap out.
Harry in Wild and Windy Casper, WY - 1986 Vintage "Silverdammit" - 2015 "Greendammit"

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: TPMS Batteries
« Reply #32 on: June 23, 2017, 08:33:44 pm »
I would consider letting mine die and let them be.
I would consider this as an alternative farkle enhancement to get for my C14!

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/131744



The GPS is designed for a bike and can read the screw-on TPMS sensors.
Batteries are replaceable. It's a smart system that can detect slow leaks.
I can start saving my pennies now and when my current system craps out, get the new GPS farkle, and new sensors.
From what I'm reading, TPMS technology is changing very rapidly.

The dealers and tire shops don't like them along with the customers forced to buy them when they crap out.

Harry, I luv ya bro, but just have to say...
A cap, with a sensor built in, must have the actual air holding valve in the stem depressed, to read pressure... this means that any failure in the cap is the point that keeps air in the tire, can be a compromise, and should said internal tire valves poppet become contaminated, because it is always being held open by the sensor cap.... if or when it fails, its a coin toss whetehr the tire valve will reseal...

Id use it on a car, but on a bike id rather go without the sensor totally, than compromise a tire valves sealing ability.

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Offline Harry Martin

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Re: TPMS Batteries
« Reply #33 on: June 23, 2017, 11:13:59 pm »
MOB, you don't love me enough.  :(

Yuppers, thought about cap issues already and must be considered.

Unudder I dea I have is to remove the current TPMS and mount it insides out and install a separate valve stem for regular inflation.
Then when the battery craps out, the TPMS is exposed to replace the battery.

Am I scaring people yet?  :-\  >:D
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Offline Harry Martin

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Re: TPMS Batteries
« Reply #34 on: June 24, 2017, 12:22:07 am »
I would consider letting mine die and let them be.
I would consider this as an alternative farkle enhancement to get for my C14!

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/131744



The GPS is designed for a bike and can read the screw-on TPMS sensors.
Batteries are replaceable. It's a smart system that can detect slow leaks.
I can start saving my pennies now and when my current system craps out, get the new GPS farkle, and new sensors.
From what I'm reading, TPMS technology is changing very rapidly.

The dealers and tire shops don't like them along with the customers forced to buy them when they crap out.

Harry, I luv ya bro, but just have to say...
A cap, with a sensor built in, must have the actual air holding valve in the stem depressed, to read pressure... this means that any failure in the cap is the point that keeps air in the tire, can be a compromise, and should said internal tire valves poppet become contaminated, because it is always being held open by the sensor cap.... if or when it fails, its a coin toss whetehr the tire valve will reseal...

Id use it on a car, but on a bike id rather go without the sensor totally, than compromise a tire valves sealing ability.

MOB, Thinking about it some more, I believe it is a reasonable risk. I keep spare valve stem valves with me in my car and motorcycle.
I read in other forums folks are very pleased with various cap sensor designs. I can always pop in a new valve should I discover one that leaks. Shoot, why stop there? Replace the valve when you replace the battery. Apply some fresh white thread tape to the valve stem after replacing battery.

Yup...I see a new farkle on the horizon.
Harry in Wild and Windy Casper, WY - 1986 Vintage "Silverdammit" - 2015 "Greendammit"

Offline Rev Ryder

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Re: TPMS Batteries
« Reply #35 on: June 24, 2017, 02:28:14 am »
MOB, you don't love me enough.  :(

Yuppers, thought about cap issues already and must be considered.

Unudder I dea I have is to remove the current TPMS and mount it insides out and install a separate valve stem for regular inflation.
Then when the battery craps out, the TPMS is exposed to replace the battery.

Am I scaring people yet?  :-\  >:D
Yeaaaahhhhh, that ainna gonna wurk, Hairy.  Well, the battery will be easy to replace.  Ya gots that part right.  :rotflmao:
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Offline bowtie39

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Re: TPMS Batteries
« Reply #36 on: June 24, 2017, 03:37:15 am »
I would consider letting mine die and let them be.
I would consider this as an alternative farkle enhancement to get for my C14!

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/131744



The GPS is designed for a bike and can read the screw-on TPMS sensors.
Batteries are replaceable. It's a smart system that can detect slow leaks.
I can start saving my pennies now and when my current system craps out, get the new GPS farkle, and new sensors.
From what I'm reading, TPMS technology is changing very rapidly.

The dealers and tire shops don't like them along with the customers forced to buy them when they crap out.

Harry, I luv ya bro, but just have to say...
A cap, with a sensor built in, must have the actual air holding valve in the stem depressed, to read pressure... this means that any failure in the cap is the point that keeps air in the tire, can be a compromise, and should said internal tire valves poppet become contaminated, because it is always being held open by the sensor cap.... if or when it fails, its a coin toss whetehr the tire valve will reseal...

Id use it on a car, but on a bike id rather go without the sensor totally, than compromise a tire valves sealing ability.

MOB, Thinking about it some more, I believe it is a reasonable risk. I keep spare valve stem valves with me in my car and motorcycle.
I read in other forums folks are very pleased with various cap sensor designs. I can always pop in a new valve should I discover one that leaks. Shoot, why stop there? Replace the valve when you replace the battery. Apply some fresh white thread tape to the valve stem after replacing battery.

Yup...I see a new farkle on the horizon.
May look at the Cyclops system.  Don't know enough yet to vote
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Offline Mad River Marc

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Re: TPMS Batteries
« Reply #37 on: July 14, 2017, 07:39:03 pm »
Changed both TPMS batteries last week when I swapped rubber,  used the batteries I bought that have the tabs,  super easy and now both sensors are working great again.

One thing I did notice is that the sensors had a conformal coating on them, I had to scrape some of that back to have clean metal to solder to (I actually used some braid to remove the old solder and put fresh leaded solder on :)  )  Now that the whole thing isn't coated anymore (Only the battery attachment points, the rest is still coated)  ya'all think this could reduce the life of the sensor?
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Offline Harry Martin

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Re: TPMS Batteries
« Reply #38 on: July 15, 2017, 12:02:43 am »
The conformal coating is to protect the exposed circuits from moisture.
If you were to replace the coating with clear fingernail lacquer, it would protect it until the next battery change.

Well done!  :great:
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Offline BDF

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Re: TPMS Batteries
« Reply #39 on: July 15, 2017, 01:24:26 am »
Just my opinion but it is not worth that kind of effort Chuck. The housing is shaped to hold the PC board and is not easily or readily made to be modified.

There are detailed photos of how to change / install a new, tabbed battery in a sensor in the battery slot, and it only takes about 5 minutes (seriously) once the sensor is in your hand so not really worth spend hours working on the sensor to make a 5 minute job into a 3 minute job. Again, all IMO of course.

Look up Pat Mulloy's tech. day photos and you should find plenty of photos. If not, I am sure Pat can supply more photos than you want of these sensors and their innerds.

Brian

If someone has an old dead sensor of this type they could send me, I'd be happy to develop a plan of attack and possibly a new conversion/replacement housing to make it easy in the future. I'm willing to give it a go anyway, but would need a dead player to experiment with.
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Offline BDF

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Re: TPMS Batteries
« Reply #40 on: July 15, 2017, 01:44:43 am »
Just a caution in general but it is not possible to solder a coin cell battery (or almost all other types of disposable batteries) without bringing the cell end to at least 700F or the solder will not flow. And the nylon seals have already begun to melt in the 350F range. It is not a matter of skill, just a matter of temperature.

Spot welding tabs works because a very tiny area, almost a pin- point, is heated until the steel melts but very little heat is introduced to the battery and once it spreads to the edges, it is well below the melting point of nylon. Very little heat with a very high application temperature. As a practical experiment, a spot welded battery tab can be picked up with bare fingers, by the tabs, immediately after the weld; try that immediate after soldering and you will be saying things such as Oy Vei! That smarts!   :D

You know what they say in soldering class: oh wait, that is probably rated PG / R so I better not say it here. Remind me and I will tell you right after 'The Cat Joke' next time we see you folks.  :beerchug:

Brian

P.S. I found it- the really good Scotch. Took me 40 years but worth it: Balvanie Double Wood (Double Easy Boys!). Beautiful stuff, it spends 9 years in charred oak casks then ~3 or so in used sherry casks. Not harsh and has tones of vanilla and caramel. Also tried some Caribbean Cask (14 yrs. old, aged in.... well, what the name says) also very good but I like Double Wood better. And Andrea unwittingly bought me a wee dram of 21 year old Port Wood while in a restaurant in Washington: the Scotch was very good, the look on her face when we got the bar bill was priceless. But I still like the Double Wood the best- probably my lowly caste.

So I need to change the batteries in my TPMS sensors and I was digging through my fridge for some 2032 battery to start soldering leads to. (As an electronics tinkerer I usually have a lot of oddball batteries :) )

That got me to thinking,   while I know a lot of people do it as a matter of course, soldering to a Lithum button cell is not really a good idea since it's easy to damage the battery,  (there is plastic and stuff inside the cell that can melt if you use too much heat)  If you are experienced at soldering and can keep the heat on for less then a second or 2 you should be fine.  for me this is not a big deal as I have a quality soldering station and know what I am doing and have done it many times, but I've seen batteries work fine for a few days after soldering and then just quit. so I started searching online for options.

Came across this

http://www.ebay.com/itm/131896165070

20 2032 batteries WITH tabs for $11 shipped  :-\  (for those who are new, these have the tabs already welded on so you solder to the tabs and NOT the battery, they are also a lot closer to what the original battery was :) )

For 11 bucks I figured why not, I ordered, it,  once i get the batteries I'll do some tests on them to see if they are fully charged (or dead crap) and then when I do my tires in a few weeks I'll let Y'all know how they work
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Offline Rev Ryder

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Re: TPMS Batteries
« Reply #41 on: July 16, 2017, 12:00:16 am »
P.S. I found it- the really good Scotch. Took me 40 years but worth it: Balvanie Double Wood (Double Easy Boys!). Beautiful stuff, it spends 9 years in charred oak casks then ~3 or so in used sherry casks. Not harsh and has tones of vanilla and caramel. Also tried some Caribbean Cask (14 yrs. old, aged in.... well, what the name says) also very good but I like Double Wood better. And Andrea unwittingly bought me a wee dram of 21 year old Port Wood while in a restaurant in Washington: the Scotch was very good, the look on her face when we got the bar bill was priceless. But I still like the Double Wood the best- probably my lowly caste.

My favorite for some years now.  I DO like Dalwhinnie [sp?] and the 17 year doublewood is even better.  BUT, it costs more than twice as much so I don't recommend it.  I feel about Scotch research the same as I do seeking the perfect Margarita recipe... it's painstaking but rewarding work. CHeers! 
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Offline BDF

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Re: TPMS Batteries
« Reply #42 on: July 16, 2017, 02:33:13 am »
OFFTOPIC:

If you leave an empty glass used for Double Wood long enough to dry, it smells exactly like maple syrup.

Also have developed an affinity for the Dimple Pinch; a blended Scotch and less subtle than the Balvenies (those that I have tried) but also excellent IMO. About the same price as the less expensive Double Wood too so not awful. Not a swilling Scotch  but a very nice treat now and again at my house as is Double Wood. I try to keep a bottle of each on hand for me and those who like the stuff.

Yep, after the 14 year old, single malt Double Wood, the price goes up fast.

I did not know you were a Scotch drinker Chuck. If I did, I would have bought you a wee dram of the version of your choice for 'stepping up to the plate' for the OTP fund raiser back in TN. Which ever one you wanted up to ~ 21 year old stuff; some of that stuff is just out of my reach. https://www.thewhiskyexchange.com/p/18354/balvenie-50-year-old

Amusing story: an older gentleman was touring a Scotch distillery with a (or the) manager. At the end, the tourist was offered his choice(s) of Scotches to sample as he wished: He selected one and said he would like it on ice, with a splash of water: the distilling master became quite irate and say 'You will have it the way man and God intended, in a glass, as taken from the keg!".

By the way, I am enjoying a Newcastle Brown Ale as I type this.... You remember those, right?  :rotflmao:

Brian

My favorite for some years now.  I DO like Dalwhinnie [sp?] and the 17 year doublewood is even better.  BUT, it costs more than twice as much so I don't recommend it.  I feel about Scotch research the same as I do seeking the perfect Margarita recipe... it's painstaking but rewarding work. CHeers!
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Offline Rev Ryder

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Re: TPMS Batteries
« Reply #43 on: July 16, 2017, 02:56:51 am »
I DO remember those.  I drank a few out of self-preservation.  Must say they were quite lovely.  An&*d yes, the morning after nose of the recent dram has a maple/burnt sugar aroma slightly reminiscent of COGnac (I like Hennessey and some VSOPs too.  I was introduced to that by COGger Troy Minton)

I just returned from Kerrville today having been up there all week.  Great riding weather in the mornings.  No, awesome weather in the mornings.  Not like the weather here further south.  Anyway, while there, Craig Green and I shared a wee dram of the Glenlivet last night before we had dinner at the venue for next year's National.  Good times.  My bride, Dolores, and Pamela Green had some drinks as well and Fred Boothe, the Rallymeister joined us for a bit too.  Good times.  Craig brought a tiny keyboard and small speaker and I had my Taylor so we jammed a bit.  LOL  As I said, good times.  :great:
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Offline Mad River Marc

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Re: TPMS Batteries
« Reply #44 on: July 17, 2017, 06:01:13 pm »
OFFTOPIC:


Amusing story: an older gentleman was touring a Scotch distillery with a (or the) manager. At the end, the tourist was offered his choice(s) of Scotches to sample as he wished: He selected one and said he would like it on ice, with a splash of water: the distilling master became quite irate and say 'You will have it the way man and God intended, in a glass, as taken from the keg!".



Oddly most people misuse the water when tasting scotch,  it's not meant to be "Splashed in" or  have "X number of ice cubes"  you are supposed to add the water, one drop at a time until the "burn" goes away,  it does something with the scotch to better match it to your tongue and everyone is different.

However I think we should all get together and do some experimenting :) 
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Offline BDF

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Re: TPMS Batteries
« Reply #45 on: July 17, 2017, 08:01:32 pm »
Yeah, I usually dilute mine with stomach acid. Sometimes with water though. Ice is tough because it melts and so continues to dilute the spirits all the while. Scotch Rocks fix that- cubes made of soapstone that are 'frozen' in advance and then put in the glass with the beverage; they cool it pretty well but do not melt.

The experimenting is great but makes me wary due to cost; I hate to drop, say, $75 on a bottle only to find I really do not like the stuff. I find a lot of Scotches are 'biting' and way too aggressive for me, Glenlevit being a perfect example. My son keeps telling me the older stuff does not have the bite but I find it undrinkable at 21 years and am not willing to spring for older stuff to find out.

To get back on- topic: the limit seems to be two shots of Scotch before swapping out tire pressure sensors. After that, the batteries end up reversed (polarity), the front sensors end up in the rear wheels, and worst of all, 'Jim's' sensors end up in 'Mike's' C-14 somehow and so forth....

 ;D

Brian


Oddly most people misuse the water when tasting scotch,  it's not meant to be "Splashed in" or  have "X number of ice cubes"  you are supposed to add the water, one drop at a time until the "burn" goes away,  it does something with the scotch to better match it to your tongue and everyone is different.

However I think we should all get together and do some experimenting :)
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Offline Mad River Marc

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Re: TPMS Batteries
« Reply #46 on: July 18, 2017, 07:52:57 pm »

The experimenting is great but makes me wary due to cost; I hate to drop, say, $75 on a bottle only to find I really do not like the stuff. I find a lot of Scotches are 'biting' and way too aggressive for me, Glenlevit being a perfect example. My son keeps telling me the older stuff does not have the bite but I find it undrinkable at 21 years and am not willing to spring for older stuff to find out.

To get back on- topic: the limit seems to be two shots of Scotch before swapping out tire pressure sensors. After that, the batteries end up reversed (polarity), the front sensors end up in the rear wheels, and worst of all, 'Jim's' sensors end up in 'Mike's' C-14 somehow and so forth....

 ;D


:D   One day I'll bring some resonably priced stuff over and you can try it,   (then maybe I can figure out why my bike now has Jim's engine and C-10 Carbs LOL)
You only need two tools in life – WD-40 and duct tape. If it doesn’t move and should, use the WD-40. If it shouldn’t move and does, use the duct tape.

Offline Upstate Pete

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Re: TPMS Batteries
« Reply #47 on: July 19, 2017, 12:54:52 am »
While mine was on warrantee,(2012 model) the dealership replaced them for free when they went low. about every two years. Now, I'm on my own. So what I did, (so far only on my front), was go to radio shack, buy 2032 battery holders, and 2032 battery's. The holder takes us some space, so I had to cut the plastic box. I soldered them in. place the battery in the holder and use a bit of black tape. I'm on my second year with this setup, and it's still working. Sometimes at extended sustained high speed, (above 75) it stops reading that tire. But doesn't do the "low battery" blink. And starts working again when speeds drop. I'm perfectly happy with this result and plan on doing the same to the back when necessary. sure as hell beats $200+ per sensor. Now that I've done it once, I hope to do a better job on the rear when that one goes. Maybe I'll try to do a vid and post it if I'm allowed.

Offline Demon Dog

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Re: TPMS Batteries
« Reply #48 on: August 08, 2017, 01:43:20 pm »
Use wire glue to make replacing the TPMS battery a very easy job. Follow this video and use wire glue instead of solder:

Wire Glue (~ $6 to $8 eBay, etc.):
http://www.fixitproducts.us/wholesale%20product%20info.htm

How to Replace the battery:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTXTz2pBzR4


Nuff said.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 01:55:09 pm by Demon Dog, Reason: Add approximate cost of product »

Offline bobgroger

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Re: TPMS Batteries
« Reply #49 on: August 13, 2017, 10:32:10 pm »
Are these the correct batteries?
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/panasonic-bsg/CR-2032L-F1N/P668-ND/2415266
Looks like free shipping, no minimum...
09 C14 24k
'80 GS1100e Dragbike 8k
'83 GS1100e stock 42k
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