Concours Owners Group (COG) Forum

Concours 14 Discussion (C14 / ZG1400 / 1400GTR) => Concours 14 / ZG1400 General Chat and Tech => Topic started by: Mad River Marc on June 18, 2017, 01:42:45 pm

Title: TPMS Batteries
Post by: Mad River Marc on June 18, 2017, 01:42:45 pm
So I need to change the batteries in my TPMS sensors and I was digging through my fridge for some 2032 battery to start soldering leads to. (As an electronics tinkerer I usually have a lot of oddball batteries :) )

That got me to thinking,   while I know a lot of people do it as a matter of course, soldering to a Lithum button cell is not really a good idea since it's easy to damage the battery,  (there is plastic and stuff inside the cell that can melt if you use too much heat)  If you are experienced at soldering and can keep the heat on for less then a second or 2 you should be fine.  for me this is not a big deal as I have a quality soldering station and know what I am doing and have done it many times, but I've seen batteries work fine for a few days after soldering and then just quit. so I started searching online for options.

Came across this

http://www.ebay.com/itm/131896165070 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/131896165070)

20 2032 batteries WITH tabs for $11 shipped  :-\  (for those who are new, these have the tabs already welded on so you solder to the tabs and NOT the battery, they are also a lot closer to what the original battery was :) )

For 11 bucks I figured why not, I ordered, it,  once i get the batteries I'll do some tests on them to see if they are fully charged (or dead crap) and then when I do my tires in a few weeks I'll let Y'all know how they work
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: jwh20 on June 18, 2017, 04:43:56 pm
Those should work although I like the configuration with both tabs coming out the same side but I'm sure these can be bent to the right configuration. 

I'll just warn once more against soldering to these cells.  At best you will just ruin the battery.  At worst it will burst in your face and spew nasty stuff all over.  It's NOT worth it.
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: connie_rider on June 18, 2017, 04:59:39 pm
Yes, please do let us know if they are any good.

I have a 2014 Connie with the other TPMS.
Has anyone found a way to install batteries in those yet?
Yes, I know of the difficulties'.   {just hoping}.....

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: jwh20 on June 18, 2017, 05:18:28 pm
Yes, please do let us know if they are any good.

I have a 2014 Connie with the other TPMS.
Has anyone found a way to install batteries in those yet?
Yes, I know of the difficulties'.   {just hoping}.....

Ride safe, Ted


Yes, it's been done on the new style TPMS modules.  There is a thread on that "other" site by a member who cut his open, exposed the battery, and replaced it.  Here is the thread, look at #6:

http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=22384.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=22384.0)

I think he reported that the module didn't work but he may have damaged it while "exploring" it.  Now that the insides are visible, I think a careful dissection will be successful.
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: connie_rider on June 18, 2017, 05:56:50 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjrT7WBG6U8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjrT7WBG6U8)

I went to jwh20's discussion and grabbed this.
This is a YouTube video of a replacement on a Corvette.
Similar...

Tree did his replacement, but it didn't work this time. But he did make progress!

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: Rev Ryder on June 18, 2017, 06:49:12 pm
If someone has an old dead sensor of this type they could send me, I'd be happy to develop a plan of attack and possibly a new conversion/replacement housing to make it easy in the future. I'm willing to give it a go anyway, but would need a dead player to experiment with.
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: Harry Martin on June 18, 2017, 07:16:29 pm
If someone has an old dead sensor of this type they could send me, I'd be happy to develop a plan of attack and possibly a new conversion/replacement housing to make it easy in the future. I'm willing to give it a go anyway, but would need a dead player to experiment with.


Waaaaaaay in the back...looks like Ted raising his hand?!

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Quro16cV8JY/S7ufrerlr0I/AAAAAAAACA0/usX_a4NsDyA/s1600/cat+raising+paw.jpg)

Nothing I'd like more than fixing Ted's wagon... er... I mean his TPMS.   >:D
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on June 18, 2017, 08:03:43 pm
Biggest bummer about buying tabbed batteries, or others in this format, online, is the quantity you have to buy, and the outrageous shipping charges as hazmat...  I suggest searching your local people that do computer, phone, and other such micro tech, for someone to do micro spot welds on tabs, many places do this, you just have to look...
This place is a few miles from my home, a 15 minute liesurely ride, and they "build" battery packs, and are experts at tab welds... even garuntee their work...
http://www.bulldogbattery.com (http://www.bulldogbattery.com)

I stopped in with a "dead donor" cell, and asked to see them weld tabs on, which they gladly did...

I'll say I could not even come close to the precision, and mroe importantly the procedure they use, with a soldering station at home... and I'm certified mil spec in solder and micro component replacement... I'm not even close to the perfection they can do in 15 seconds time, withou blowing the batt up.

I couldn't buy batteries online for cheaper than they would charge for 2 cells, tabbed, and even soldered into the circuit...if I so desired...
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: Mad River Marc on June 18, 2017, 08:13:54 pm
I hear you on finding a place to do the tabs, but there isnt any place near me that I can find,  lucky this package of 20 batteries was only 11 bucks shipped and I can test the cells to see how charged they are before I tear the tire down :)
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: connie_rider on June 18, 2017, 09:52:32 pm
Harry, I did not raise my hand.    :P

In fact; I don't even need to do my TPMS yet..
            I have an extended warranty that should handle the problem if it comes up.

I, (unlike you) was being a "nice guy" and asking about the process, for the benefit of others..

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: Harry Martin on June 18, 2017, 10:26:16 pm
Harry, I did not raise my hand.    :P

In fact; I don't even need to do my TPMS yet..
            I have an extended warranty that should handle the problem if it comes up.

I, (unlike you) was being a "nice guy" and asking about the process, for the benefit of others..

Ride safe, Ted

EXCUUUUUUUZZZZE MEEEEEEEEEE!

You are right. You don't have a hand, you have a ...paw.
I fergets...you are not human. Sorry, don't mean to pick on you... :(

HA-HAaaa! Fooled you. I do mean to pick on you.  >:D

So is it true, an extended warranty will pay for new TPMS when the batteries crap out?
Will they pull the tire off and remount as part of the deal?

Sheesh...when are these corporations going to get on the "save-the-planet" bandwagon and stop filling waste dumps with non-repairable TPMS transponders with their potted in non-replaceable batteries?
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on June 19, 2017, 12:00:31 am
Harry.... snap, ...pop...snap....pop...crack....

Yes, they will cover removing the tires, and replacing the dead unit, and replacing and balancing the tires... and if you arensmart, and sly, and very polite....
Snap....crack...pop a pop a pop...... and tell them you have new tires sitting in the barn, they will put them on, and balance them... because they really don't care, they gotta pull the tire, and reinstall and balance again, no matter what...m just sayin'...

But I do love tonwatch you and Ted go at it like a couple Hens.... bawwwwwwkkkkk bwaaawwwwwk...  :rotflmao:
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: connie_rider on June 19, 2017, 03:53:58 pm
Aww, we ain't fighting.
   We're just funnin'..
        After 14 years of working together on "OtP" it comes naturally..
             I actually like the guy..
                     {don't tell anyone I sed that}..

Besides, It's fun to pick on Harry {b'cuz,  it's so EZ to do}...    :nananana:

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: Mad River Marc on June 21, 2017, 04:49:06 pm
Ok  I decided to do some experimenting on batteries to see what the ACTUAL effects are on soldering wires to a 2032 battery,  I've soldered to various button cells over the years during many of my electronics tinkering projects so I feel qualified to do this.

Equipment used:
Weller WESD51 Soldering station
Amtech flux
Radio Shack .062 diameter ROsin core solder (I'm out of my usual Kester)
Rubbing Alcohol
Basic Wire
Extech DVOM
2x Sony CR2032 Lithium cells
100Ohm Resister (to load the cell while testing)


Voltage checking method
Attach 1 end of the 100Ohm Resistor to an alligator clip and hook that to the test probes of the meter then test battery, this will provide a (roughly) 30 milliamp load to the battery while testing



First Battery - Double soldering technique (tin and then tack)
Starting Voltage 3.09v,  Measured once a day for 3 days, 3.08-9 for all 3 days
Method :

Sand battery surfaces lightly to scuff
Apply Flux
Apply light amount of solder to battery keeping iron contact to UNDER 1 second
Immediately apply a paper towel soaked in alcohol to cool the battery
Wait till FULLY cool
Repeat on other Terminal

After this I tested the voltage again,  3.07v

Tin wires to be used
When totally cool, tack wire to positive terminal (Again total iron dwell time under 1 second)
Alcohol to cool
Wait for total cool
Repeat for Neg terminal

After doing this and allowing the battery to cool voltage tested at 3.27 again


10 minutes later, voltage read 3.09
10 Minutes later, 3.02
2 Days later 2.4  :-\
3 Days later holding at 2.4

As we can see the voltage was pretty stable PRIOR to soldering the leads, once I attached the leads it was lower and then dropped off sharply over the next 2 days....

Second battery (tin and attach at the same time)
Starting Voltage 3.07v,  Measured once a day for 3 days, 3.06-7 for all 3 days

Method:
Sand battery surfaces lightly to scuff
Tin Wires
Apply Flux
Tack wire to battery keeping iron contact to UNDER 1 second
Immediately apply a paper towel soaked in alcohol to cool the battery
Wait till FULLY cool
Repeat on other Terminal

Voltage after cool 3.05
10 minutes later, voltage read 3.05 (Hmm, Promising )
10 Minutes later, 3.05 (Looking good!!!)
1 day later 3.01 (Lower, but still good)
2 days later, 2.7   :(
Still holding at 2.8

So as we can see it held better, but then within 2 days had a sharp dropoff in voltage, however it seems to have stabilized after that... I can only assume that method 1 because it heated the battery twice caused more damage hence the lower voltage out of it :( 


Now I am loading these things with (Approx) 30 millamps which I believe is more then the TPMS would use as I cannot find the data sheet on them, I also don't know the dropout voltage, but I imagine they would work on these batteries for a time...

However, given the voltages observed, I am forced to conclude (by my totally accurate and perfect science methods :) ) that even when we do the change this way and the TPMS works, it is on borrowed time

Once the batteries that have the tabs on them arrive I'll repeat this test but soldering to the tabs this time and see if it's better... :)

Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: BDF on June 21, 2017, 05:50:12 pm
We have been using welded- tab batteries like that for years at Tech. Day in Monson, MA Mark. Fold and clip the tabs (sorta' like a Rabbi does it), solder the lead from the bottom of the batter to the PC board lug, then use a piece of thin wire (I use wire- wrap wire, 30 gauge) to solder the other tab to the other PC lug.

I am sure Pat Maloy has plenty of photos on how we do this; it is fast, easy, utterly reliable and everything fits neatly back into the case. If you use the old 'removing the TPS sensors without removing the wheels or tires method, both senors can be R&R'd, with new batteries, in 55 minutes.... including a couple of short jokes thrown as a no- cost extra.

Brian

So I need to change the batteries in my TPMS sensors and I was digging through my fridge for some 2032 battery to start soldering leads to. (As an electronics tinkerer I usually have a lot of oddball batteries :) )

That got me to thinking,   while I know a lot of people do it as a matter of course, soldering to a Lithum button cell is not really a good idea since it's easy to damage the battery,  (there is plastic and stuff inside the cell that can melt if you use too much heat)  If you are experienced at soldering and can keep the heat on for less then a second or 2 you should be fine.  for me this is not a big deal as I have a quality soldering station and know what I am doing and have done it many times, but I've seen batteries work fine for a few days after soldering and then just quit. so I started searching online for options.

Came across this

[url]http://www.ebay.com/itm/131896165070[/url] ([url]http://www.ebay.com/itm/131896165070[/url])

20 2032 batteries WITH tabs for $11 shipped  :-\  (for those who are new, these have the tabs already welded on so you solder to the tabs and NOT the battery, they are also a lot closer to what the original battery was :) )

For 11 bucks I figured why not, I ordered, it,  once i get the batteries I'll do some tests on them to see if they are fully charged (or dead crap) and then when I do my tires in a few weeks I'll let Y'all know how they work
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: BDF on June 21, 2017, 05:58:09 pm
That test will not show the two real problems in soldering directly to battery tabs.

Problem one is that batteries (cheap, consumer batteries) are sealed with nylon and long before the button is hot enough to flow solder, the nylon melted, flowed and ruined the seal on the battery. The battery may well work but it absolutely will leak electrolyte which will hurt the battery's life and is hard on the equipment the battery sleeps in (we have all seen that green and or white oxide powder all over the end of a battery that leaked in some gizmo).

The second problem is that lithium batteries contain lithium, a very unstable and reactive metal. Now it is not pure lithium in the battery but after heating it, you may be successful in separating some lithium (the element lithium from the chemical lithium compound) and getting it to explode. It is what the islanders call 'bad ju-ju'. It can be bad enough to seriously damage your face / head / hands. Not worth it. Just buy and use tabbed batteries if you are going to solder them.

BTW- you will not find any commercial mfg. who solders to battery terminals, and the above is the reason. Believe me, they would if they could . Spot welding the tabs on the battery ends actually puts far less heat (although much higher temperatures at the weld point) into the battery than soldering does so the seals never reach their melting point when tab welded.

Brian

Ok  I decided to do some experimenting on batteries to see what the ACTUAL effects are on soldering wires to a 2032 battery,  I've soldered to various button cells over the years during many of my electronics tinkering projects so I feel qualified to do this.

Equipment used:
Weller WESD51 Soldering station
Amtech flux
Radio Shack .062 diameter ROsin core solder (I'm out of my usual Kester)
Rubbing Alcohol
Basic Wire
Extech DVOM
2x Sony CR2032 Lithium cells
100Ohm Resister (to load the cell while testing)


Voltage checking method
Attach 1 end of the 100Ohm Resistor to an alligator clip and hook that to the test probes of the meter then test battery, this will provide a (roughly) 30 milliamp load to the battery while testing



First Battery - Double soldering technique (tin and then tack)
Starting Voltage 3.09v,  Measured once a day for 3 days, 3.08-9 for all 3 days
Method :

Sand battery surfaces lightly to scuff
Apply Flux
Apply light amount of solder to battery keeping iron contact to UNDER 1 second
Immediately apply a paper towel soaked in alcohol to cool the battery
Wait till FULLY cool
Repeat on other Terminal

After this I tested the voltage again,  3.07v

Tin wires to be used
When totally cool, tack wire to positive terminal (Again total iron dwell time under 1 second)
Alcohol to cool
Wait for total cool
Repeat for Neg terminal

After doing this and allowing the battery to cool voltage tested at 3.27 again


10 minutes later, voltage read 3.09
10 Minutes later, 3.02
2 Days later 2.4  :-\
3 Days later holding at 2.4

As we can see the voltage was pretty stable PRIOR to soldering the leads, once I attached the leads it was lower and then dropped off sharply over the next 2 days....

Second battery (tin and attach at the same time)
Starting Voltage 3.07v,  Measured once a day for 3 days, 3.06-7 for all 3 days

Method:
Sand battery surfaces lightly to scuff
Tin Wires
Apply Flux
Tack wire to battery keeping iron contact to UNDER 1 second
Immediately apply a paper towel soaked in alcohol to cool the battery
Wait till FULLY cool
Repeat on other Terminal

Voltage after cool 3.05
10 minutes later, voltage read 3.05 (Hmm, Promising )
10 Minutes later, 3.05 (Looking good!!!)
1 day later 3.01 (Lower, but still good)
2 days later, 2.7   :(
Still holding at 2.8

So as we can see it held better, but then within 2 days had a sharp dropoff in voltage, however it seems to have stabilized after that... I can only assume that method 1 because it heated the battery twice caused more damage hence the lower voltage out of it :( 


Now I am loading these things with (Approx) 30 millamps which I believe is more then the TPMS would use as I cannot find the data sheet on them, I also don't know the dropout voltage, but I imagine they would work on these batteries for a time...

However, given the voltages observed, I am forced to conclude (by my totally accurate and perfect science methods :) ) that even when we do the change this way and the TPMS works, it is on borrowed time

Once the batteries that have the tabs on them arrive I'll repeat this test but soldering to the tabs this time and see if it's better... :)
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: jwh20 on June 21, 2017, 06:07:28 pm
This is CLASSIC!!

Quote
It is what the islanders call 'bad ju-ju'


 :))


Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: smithr1 on June 21, 2017, 07:25:16 pm
I think places like batteries plus use a cold solder to make connections.  I just don't know if that is something we can get and use. 
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on June 21, 2017, 07:45:59 pm
I think places like batteries plus use a cold solder to make connections.  I just don't know if that is something we can get and use.


I'm sure they do the same as e place I mentioned, Bulldog Battery, and when its sitting in position, prior to doing the micro spot welds, they blast it with freon and freeze it, and blast it again after the weld.. they used that canned "cold spray" for checking transistors...

Kinda like this, but even more precise, with the cold spray addition..
http://youtu.be/iLQPeunfoa4 (http://youtu.be/iLQPeunfoa4)

Mind you, these "A" series lithium batteries are the "jelly roll" internal format, where cathode and anode layers along with permeable seperator polymer sheets are rolled, and inserted into that "tube" casing, there is still some residual electrolyte and gas in there... the gas is really the explosive, not the lithium itself, which is bound up in a chemical salt, and cannot combust without the adddition of oxygen, and also some semblence of moisture (H2O)

The electrolyte is pretty volatile, because of the solvents in its composition...   lithium hexaflourophosphate to be precise, with 2 additional volatile flammable liquids.. interesting stuff....   the equipment I designed for assembly and manufacture of layered "flat pack" bag style cells was a very interesting adventure, and the complete process was done in an inert atmosphere, basically a long "dry box" with gloved portals... containing a helium atmosphere... real sci fi stuff like in the Andromeda Strain movie...

The always present downfall of these batteries, even the button cells originaly discused here, is the hermetic seal, which is really not reliable, nor totally hermetic, and even tho lasts "a while" the polymers simply are not air tight forever.
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: BDF on June 21, 2017, 10:28:42 pm
Batteries Plus, at least the two I have been to, use battery tab spot welders. 'We' can absolutely get and use a battery termincal spot welder but they are probably a bit too pricey for an individual (cheap ones are ~$100 and act like..... well, cheap ones).

I cannot say for certain but I do not think there is any cold soldering method.

Easiest thing to do is just buy batteries with tabs welded onto them, and that will so come with the insulator strip needed where the lower tab crosses the edge of the battery. They are so common, they are only a few pennies per battery more than batteries w/out tabs so the tabs are almost free.

Brian

I think places like batteries plus use a cold solder to make connections.  I just don't know if that is something we can get and use.
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: bobgroger on June 21, 2017, 11:55:34 pm
I have not finished searching all the TPMS threads yet, but is a 315Mhz TPMS  a 315Hhz TPMS, or are there differences in the authentication codes or protocol or something? You can buy a 315Mhz TPMS for $22 on eBAy, has anyone with KDS3 experimented with that?
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: Harry Martin on June 22, 2017, 12:27:45 am
A better idea, we may see in our lifetime, is a TPMS battery that is built into the valve stem cap.
Then we would't have to resort to such foolish work arounds.

Imagine, replacing your battery just by changing the valve stem cap.
It is doable.

Another idea is to bring out wire leads and mount a battery holder to the tire rim.

Go ahead...laugh.
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on June 22, 2017, 12:52:51 am
A better idea, we may see in our lifetime, is a TPMS battery that is built into the valve stem cap.
Then we would't have to resort to such foolish work arounds.

Imagine, replacing your battery just by changing the valve stem cap.
It is doable.

Another idea is to bring out wire leads and mount a battery holder to the tire rim.

Go ahead...laugh.

 :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :))

That was the laugh emoticon....

Yes Harry, welcome to the future past... valve stem cap monitors have been around for decades.
The issue with them is that is a valve stem cap... and, as such, in order to read the tire pressure/chznges in same, the cap is all that protects you from catastrphic rapid deflation... if the cap itself fails.... not a good solution.
The current tire monitoring system is as close to ideal as it can be, as it is inside the tire, and the valve stem core valve is intact, sealing the tires air in...

Only stupid part is the forced obsolesence/forced continued $$$ drain of funds, by  its as is design, guranteeing you have to buy a sealed unit...
Simply put, kaw will always get your money, based on the design, when they could simply have designed it with a slot, and retaining clip, for easy battery replacement... kinda like the fob.... if they made you buy a fob, when that same battery died.... they wouldn't have sold many bikes...

I've biotched till I was blue in the face to kawasaki corporate about this very aspect... they just smile, and say have a great day...    kinda like the response southern folk give when they say "well, god bless you... . "  Which really means... GFY.... :rotflmao:
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: Harry Martin on June 22, 2017, 01:28:44 am
 :16:

 :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: bowtie39 on June 22, 2017, 03:18:30 am
Cyclops
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: BDF on June 22, 2017, 02:33:16 pm
Kawasaki uses proprietary code to force Kawasaki owners to buy the sensors from them. That is why a $20 sensor is $300 and we have no choice.

Perfectly legal thing to do but do enough of it and the brand's customer base will look elsewhere. Brown and Sharpe was famous for using all kinds of one- off bolt and screw sizes on their machines, forcing the customers to go back to them for everything. It did not win them any friends before they went under. But many if not most production companies do do this to some degree or other. Again, the key seems to be to use enough to make a little 'extra' money on the product without totally alienating your customer base. So Kawasaki does it with the tire pressure sensors but if they used 17 1/2" tires, it would probably seriously hurt or kill sales 'cause a 'Kawasaki- Michilin PR4' in that size would be painfully expensive and impossible to find outside the dealer network.

Brian

I have not finished searching all the TPMS threads yet, but is a 315Mhz TPMS  a 315Hhz TPMS, or are there differences in the authentication codes or protocol or something? You can buy a 315Mhz TPMS for $22 on eBAy, has anyone with KDS3 experimented with that?
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on June 22, 2017, 02:54:32 pm
 :))
Don't give them any ideas Brian... you don't think the M/C industry isn't poised and waiting to set a "new" tire standard of 17-3/8" or 16-7/8" soon?

They just can't leave us alone can they.... :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
Just like they pulled when we were all happy and could buy great tires, that matched, for the old C10.... :rotflmao:

You mentioned special fasteners, ever had any experience in the thread (fastener) sizes used in the sewing machine industry?
It would make your head spin....insane thread pitch and sizes....
I worked for a while in the industry designing high speed embroidery machines, with like 5 to 20 stations, And never realized until then about the screw sizes used...
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: Mad River Marc on June 22, 2017, 03:04:25 pm
Hey Brian,
Long time no speak amigo!!!!!


I actually found a source for batteries with the tabs already welded on, I got 20 batteries for 11 bucks shipped.  they came in yesteday and I tested a few and found them to have a HIGHER charge then the Sony's I was testing with.  I was just doing this experiment because I seem to recall some people saying they just solder to the batteries and I didn't want to do that since I figured it would damage them (and my experiment proved right)

FYI as of this morning, both of my test batteries are stone dead :(


It does suck that Kawi does all it can to force us to buy expensive sensors needlessly,  even worse since the original sensors could be disassembled (relatively) easily whereas the new sensors have the battery potted in resin GRRRRR.

However, I seem to recall Matt N found a place on Ebay selling the new style sensors (even with the Kawi branding on them ) for 15 bucks a piece...not sure if he got them to register properly tho :)

Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: connie_rider on June 22, 2017, 03:07:54 pm
FYI as of this morning, both of my test batteries are stone dead :(

Are your test batteries, 2 of the 20 you just bought??

Ted
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: jwh20 on June 22, 2017, 03:09:56 pm
However, I seem to recall Matt N found a place on Ebay selling the new style sensors (even with the Kawi branding on them ) for 15 bucks a piece...not sure if he got them to register properly tho :)

The report is that YES, he was able to register them. That's the good news.  The bad news is that the supplier who had them is now showing "out of stock".
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: Mad River Marc on June 22, 2017, 03:23:47 pm
Are your test batteries, 2 of the 20 you just bought??

No, the 2 batteries I soldered to as part of this test :)    The ones with the tabs pre-welded are still full as far as I know
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: Harry Martin on June 23, 2017, 08:25:16 pm
I would consider letting mine die and let them be.
I would consider this as an alternative farkle enhancement to get for my C14!

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/131744

(https://static.garmincdn.com/en/products/010-11997-00/g/cf-lg.jpg) (https://static.garmincdn.com/en/products/010-11997-00/g/sc-02-lg.jpg)

The GPS is designed for a bike and can read the screw-on TPMS sensors.
Batteries are replaceable. It's a smart system that can detect slow leaks.
I can start saving my pennies now and when my current system craps out, get the new GPS farkle, and new sensors.
From what I'm reading, TPMS technology is changing very rapidly.

The dealers and tire shops don't like them along with the customers forced to buy them when they crap out.
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on June 23, 2017, 08:33:44 pm
I would consider letting mine die and let them be.
I would consider this as an alternative farkle enhancement to get for my C14!

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/131744

(https://static.garmincdn.com/en/products/010-11997-00/g/cf-lg.jpg) (https://static.garmincdn.com/en/products/010-11997-00/g/sc-02-lg.jpg)

The GPS is designed for a bike and can read the screw-on TPMS sensors.
Batteries are replaceable. It's a smart system that can detect slow leaks.
I can start saving my pennies now and when my current system craps out, get the new GPS farkle, and new sensors.
From what I'm reading, TPMS technology is changing very rapidly.

The dealers and tire shops don't like them along with the customers forced to buy them when they crap out.

Harry, I luv ya bro, but just have to say...
A cap, with a sensor built in, must have the actual air holding valve in the stem depressed, to read pressure... this means that any failure in the cap is the point that keeps air in the tire, can be a compromise, and should said internal tire valves poppet become contaminated, because it is always being held open by the sensor cap.... if or when it fails, its a coin toss whetehr the tire valve will reseal...

Id use it on a car, but on a bike id rather go without the sensor totally, than compromise a tire valves sealing ability.
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: Harry Martin on June 23, 2017, 11:13:59 pm
MOB, you don't love me enough.  :(

Yuppers, thought about cap issues already and must be considered.

Unudder I dea I have is to remove the current TPMS and mount it insides out and install a separate valve stem for regular inflation.
Then when the battery craps out, the TPMS is exposed to replace the battery.

Am I scaring people yet?  :-\  >:D
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: Harry Martin on June 24, 2017, 12:22:07 am
I would consider letting mine die and let them be.
I would consider this as an alternative farkle enhancement to get for my C14!

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/131744

(https://static.garmincdn.com/en/products/010-11997-00/g/cf-lg.jpg) (https://static.garmincdn.com/en/products/010-11997-00/g/sc-02-lg.jpg)

The GPS is designed for a bike and can read the screw-on TPMS sensors.
Batteries are replaceable. It's a smart system that can detect slow leaks.
I can start saving my pennies now and when my current system craps out, get the new GPS farkle, and new sensors.
From what I'm reading, TPMS technology is changing very rapidly.

The dealers and tire shops don't like them along with the customers forced to buy them when they crap out.

Harry, I luv ya bro, but just have to say...
A cap, with a sensor built in, must have the actual air holding valve in the stem depressed, to read pressure... this means that any failure in the cap is the point that keeps air in the tire, can be a compromise, and should said internal tire valves poppet become contaminated, because it is always being held open by the sensor cap.... if or when it fails, its a coin toss whetehr the tire valve will reseal...

Id use it on a car, but on a bike id rather go without the sensor totally, than compromise a tire valves sealing ability.

MOB, Thinking about it some more, I believe it is a reasonable risk. I keep spare valve stem valves with me in my car and motorcycle.
I read in other forums folks are very pleased with various cap sensor designs. I can always pop in a new valve should I discover one that leaks. Shoot, why stop there? Replace the valve when you replace the battery. Apply some fresh white thread tape to the valve stem after replacing battery.

Yup...I see a new farkle on the horizon.
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: Rev Ryder on June 24, 2017, 02:28:14 am
MOB, you don't love me enough.  :(

Yuppers, thought about cap issues already and must be considered.

Unudder I dea I have is to remove the current TPMS and mount it insides out and install a separate valve stem for regular inflation.
Then when the battery craps out, the TPMS is exposed to replace the battery.

Am I scaring people yet?  :-\  >:D
Yeaaaahhhhh, that ainna gonna wurk, Hairy.  Well, the battery will be easy to replace.  Ya gots that part right.  :rotflmao:
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: bowtie39 on June 24, 2017, 03:37:15 am
I would consider letting mine die and let them be.
I would consider this as an alternative farkle enhancement to get for my C14!

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/131744

(https://static.garmincdn.com/en/products/010-11997-00/g/cf-lg.jpg) (https://static.garmincdn.com/en/products/010-11997-00/g/sc-02-lg.jpg)

The GPS is designed for a bike and can read the screw-on TPMS sensors.
Batteries are replaceable. It's a smart system that can detect slow leaks.
I can start saving my pennies now and when my current system craps out, get the new GPS farkle, and new sensors.
From what I'm reading, TPMS technology is changing very rapidly.

The dealers and tire shops don't like them along with the customers forced to buy them when they crap out.

Harry, I luv ya bro, but just have to say...
A cap, with a sensor built in, must have the actual air holding valve in the stem depressed, to read pressure... this means that any failure in the cap is the point that keeps air in the tire, can be a compromise, and should said internal tire valves poppet become contaminated, because it is always being held open by the sensor cap.... if or when it fails, its a coin toss whetehr the tire valve will reseal...

Id use it on a car, but on a bike id rather go without the sensor totally, than compromise a tire valves sealing ability.

MOB, Thinking about it some more, I believe it is a reasonable risk. I keep spare valve stem valves with me in my car and motorcycle.
I read in other forums folks are very pleased with various cap sensor designs. I can always pop in a new valve should I discover one that leaks. Shoot, why stop there? Replace the valve when you replace the battery. Apply some fresh white thread tape to the valve stem after replacing battery.

Yup...I see a new farkle on the horizon.
May look at the Cyclops system.  Don't know enough yet to vote
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: Mad River Marc on July 14, 2017, 07:39:03 pm
Changed both TPMS batteries last week when I swapped rubber,  used the batteries I bought that have the tabs,  super easy and now both sensors are working great again.

One thing I did notice is that the sensors had a conformal coating on them, I had to scrape some of that back to have clean metal to solder to (I actually used some braid to remove the old solder and put fresh leaded solder on :)  )  Now that the whole thing isn't coated anymore (Only the battery attachment points, the rest is still coated)  ya'all think this could reduce the life of the sensor?
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: Harry Martin on July 15, 2017, 12:02:43 am
The conformal coating is to protect the exposed circuits from moisture.
If you were to replace the coating with clear fingernail lacquer, it would protect it until the next battery change.

Well done!  :great:
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: BDF on July 15, 2017, 01:24:26 am
Just my opinion but it is not worth that kind of effort Chuck. The housing is shaped to hold the PC board and is not easily or readily made to be modified.

There are detailed photos of how to change / install a new, tabbed battery in a sensor in the battery slot, and it only takes about 5 minutes (seriously) once the sensor is in your hand so not really worth spend hours working on the sensor to make a 5 minute job into a 3 minute job. Again, all IMO of course.

Look up Pat Mulloy's tech. day photos and you should find plenty of photos. If not, I am sure Pat can supply more photos than you want of these sensors and their innerds.

Brian

If someone has an old dead sensor of this type they could send me, I'd be happy to develop a plan of attack and possibly a new conversion/replacement housing to make it easy in the future. I'm willing to give it a go anyway, but would need a dead player to experiment with.
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: BDF on July 15, 2017, 01:44:43 am
Just a caution in general but it is not possible to solder a coin cell battery (or almost all other types of disposable batteries) without bringing the cell end to at least 700F or the solder will not flow. And the nylon seals have already begun to melt in the 350F range. It is not a matter of skill, just a matter of temperature.

Spot welding tabs works because a very tiny area, almost a pin- point, is heated until the steel melts but very little heat is introduced to the battery and once it spreads to the edges, it is well below the melting point of nylon. Very little heat with a very high application temperature. As a practical experiment, a spot welded battery tab can be picked up with bare fingers, by the tabs, immediately after the weld; try that immediate after soldering and you will be saying things such as Oy Vei! That smarts!   :D

You know what they say in soldering class: oh wait, that is probably rated PG / R so I better not say it here. Remind me and I will tell you right after 'The Cat Joke' next time we see you folks.  :beerchug:

Brian

P.S. I found it- the really good Scotch. Took me 40 years but worth it: Balvanie Double Wood (Double Easy Boys!). Beautiful stuff, it spends 9 years in charred oak casks then ~3 or so in used sherry casks. Not harsh and has tones of vanilla and caramel. Also tried some Caribbean Cask (14 yrs. old, aged in.... well, what the name says) also very good but I like Double Wood better. And Andrea unwittingly bought me a wee dram of 21 year old Port Wood while in a restaurant in Washington: the Scotch was very good, the look on her face when we got the bar bill was priceless. But I still like the Double Wood the best- probably my lowly caste.

So I need to change the batteries in my TPMS sensors and I was digging through my fridge for some 2032 battery to start soldering leads to. (As an electronics tinkerer I usually have a lot of oddball batteries :) )

That got me to thinking,   while I know a lot of people do it as a matter of course, soldering to a Lithum button cell is not really a good idea since it's easy to damage the battery,  (there is plastic and stuff inside the cell that can melt if you use too much heat)  If you are experienced at soldering and can keep the heat on for less then a second or 2 you should be fine.  for me this is not a big deal as I have a quality soldering station and know what I am doing and have done it many times, but I've seen batteries work fine for a few days after soldering and then just quit. so I started searching online for options.

Came across this

[url]http://www.ebay.com/itm/131896165070[/url] ([url]http://www.ebay.com/itm/131896165070[/url])

20 2032 batteries WITH tabs for $11 shipped  :-\  (for those who are new, these have the tabs already welded on so you solder to the tabs and NOT the battery, they are also a lot closer to what the original battery was :) )

For 11 bucks I figured why not, I ordered, it,  once i get the batteries I'll do some tests on them to see if they are fully charged (or dead crap) and then when I do my tires in a few weeks I'll let Y'all know how they work
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: Rev Ryder on July 16, 2017, 12:00:16 am
P.S. I found it- the really good Scotch. Took me 40 years but worth it: Balvanie Double Wood (Double Easy Boys!). Beautiful stuff, it spends 9 years in charred oak casks then ~3 or so in used sherry casks. Not harsh and has tones of vanilla and caramel. Also tried some Caribbean Cask (14 yrs. old, aged in.... well, what the name says) also very good but I like Double Wood better. And Andrea unwittingly bought me a wee dram of 21 year old Port Wood while in a restaurant in Washington: the Scotch was very good, the look on her face when we got the bar bill was priceless. But I still like the Double Wood the best- probably my lowly caste.

My favorite for some years now.  I DO like Dalwhinnie [sp?] and the 17 year doublewood is even better.  BUT, it costs more than twice as much so I don't recommend it.  I feel about Scotch research the same as I do seeking the perfect Margarita recipe... it's painstaking but rewarding work. CHeers! 
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: BDF on July 16, 2017, 02:33:13 am
OFFTOPIC:

If you leave an empty glass used for Double Wood long enough to dry, it smells exactly like maple syrup.

Also have developed an affinity for the Dimple Pinch; a blended Scotch and less subtle than the Balvenies (those that I have tried) but also excellent IMO. About the same price as the less expensive Double Wood too so not awful. Not a swilling Scotch  but a very nice treat now and again at my house as is Double Wood. I try to keep a bottle of each on hand for me and those who like the stuff.

Yep, after the 14 year old, single malt Double Wood, the price goes up fast.

I did not know you were a Scotch drinker Chuck. If I did, I would have bought you a wee dram of the version of your choice for 'stepping up to the plate' for the OTP fund raiser back in TN. Which ever one you wanted up to ~ 21 year old stuff; some of that stuff is just out of my reach. https://www.thewhiskyexchange.com/p/18354/balvenie-50-year-old (https://www.thewhiskyexchange.com/p/18354/balvenie-50-year-old)

Amusing story: an older gentleman was touring a Scotch distillery with a (or the) manager. At the end, the tourist was offered his choice(s) of Scotches to sample as he wished: He selected one and said he would like it on ice, with a splash of water: the distilling master became quite irate and say 'You will have it the way man and God intended, in a glass, as taken from the keg!".

By the way, I am enjoying a Newcastle Brown Ale as I type this.... You remember those, right?  :rotflmao:

Brian

My favorite for some years now.  I DO like Dalwhinnie [sp?] and the 17 year doublewood is even better.  BUT, it costs more than twice as much so I don't recommend it.  I feel about Scotch research the same as I do seeking the perfect Margarita recipe... it's painstaking but rewarding work. CHeers!
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: Rev Ryder on July 16, 2017, 02:56:51 am
I DO remember those.  I drank a few out of self-preservation.  Must say they were quite lovely.  An&*d yes, the morning after nose of the recent dram has a maple/burnt sugar aroma slightly reminiscent of COGnac (I like Hennessey and some VSOPs too.  I was introduced to that by COGger Troy Minton)

I just returned from Kerrville today having been up there all week.  Great riding weather in the mornings.  No, awesome weather in the mornings.  Not like the weather here further south.  Anyway, while there, Craig Green and I shared a wee dram of the Glenlivet last night before we had dinner at the venue for next year's National.  Good times.  My bride, Dolores, and Pamela Green had some drinks as well and Fred Boothe, the Rallymeister joined us for a bit too.  Good times.  Craig brought a tiny keyboard and small speaker and I had my Taylor so we jammed a bit.  LOL  As I said, good times.  :great:
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: Mad River Marc on July 17, 2017, 06:01:13 pm
OFFTOPIC:


Amusing story: an older gentleman was touring a Scotch distillery with a (or the) manager. At the end, the tourist was offered his choice(s) of Scotches to sample as he wished: He selected one and said he would like it on ice, with a splash of water: the distilling master became quite irate and say 'You will have it the way man and God intended, in a glass, as taken from the keg!".



Oddly most people misuse the water when tasting scotch,  it's not meant to be "Splashed in" or  have "X number of ice cubes"  you are supposed to add the water, one drop at a time until the "burn" goes away,  it does something with the scotch to better match it to your tongue and everyone is different.

However I think we should all get together and do some experimenting :) 
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: BDF on July 17, 2017, 08:01:32 pm
Yeah, I usually dilute mine with stomach acid. Sometimes with water though. Ice is tough because it melts and so continues to dilute the spirits all the while. Scotch Rocks fix that- cubes made of soapstone that are 'frozen' in advance and then put in the glass with the beverage; they cool it pretty well but do not melt.

The experimenting is great but makes me wary due to cost; I hate to drop, say, $75 on a bottle only to find I really do not like the stuff. I find a lot of Scotches are 'biting' and way too aggressive for me, Glenlevit being a perfect example. My son keeps telling me the older stuff does not have the bite but I find it undrinkable at 21 years and am not willing to spring for older stuff to find out.

To get back on- topic: the limit seems to be two shots of Scotch before swapping out tire pressure sensors. After that, the batteries end up reversed (polarity), the front sensors end up in the rear wheels, and worst of all, 'Jim's' sensors end up in 'Mike's' C-14 somehow and so forth....

 ;D

Brian


Oddly most people misuse the water when tasting scotch,  it's not meant to be "Splashed in" or  have "X number of ice cubes"  you are supposed to add the water, one drop at a time until the "burn" goes away,  it does something with the scotch to better match it to your tongue and everyone is different.

However I think we should all get together and do some experimenting :)
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: Mad River Marc on July 18, 2017, 07:52:57 pm

The experimenting is great but makes me wary due to cost; I hate to drop, say, $75 on a bottle only to find I really do not like the stuff. I find a lot of Scotches are 'biting' and way too aggressive for me, Glenlevit being a perfect example. My son keeps telling me the older stuff does not have the bite but I find it undrinkable at 21 years and am not willing to spring for older stuff to find out.

To get back on- topic: the limit seems to be two shots of Scotch before swapping out tire pressure sensors. After that, the batteries end up reversed (polarity), the front sensors end up in the rear wheels, and worst of all, 'Jim's' sensors end up in 'Mike's' C-14 somehow and so forth....

 ;D


:D   One day I'll bring some resonably priced stuff over and you can try it,   (then maybe I can figure out why my bike now has Jim's engine and C-10 Carbs LOL)
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: Upstate Pete on July 19, 2017, 12:54:52 am
While mine was on warrantee,(2012 model) the dealership replaced them for free when they went low. about every two years. Now, I'm on my own. So what I did, (so far only on my front), was go to radio shack, buy 2032 battery holders, and 2032 battery's. The holder takes us some space, so I had to cut the plastic box. I soldered them in. place the battery in the holder and use a bit of black tape. I'm on my second year with this setup, and it's still working. Sometimes at extended sustained high speed, (above 75) it stops reading that tire. But doesn't do the "low battery" blink. And starts working again when speeds drop. I'm perfectly happy with this result and plan on doing the same to the back when necessary. sure as hell beats $200+ per sensor. Now that I've done it once, I hope to do a better job on the rear when that one goes. Maybe I'll try to do a vid and post it if I'm allowed.
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: Demon Dog on August 08, 2017, 01:43:20 pm
Use wire glue to make replacing the TPMS battery a very easy job. Follow this video and use wire glue instead of solder:

Wire Glue (~ $6 to $8 eBay, etc.):
http://www.fixitproducts.us/wholesale%20product%20info.htm (http://www.fixitproducts.us/wholesale%20product%20info.htm)

How to Replace the battery:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTXTz2pBzR4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTXTz2pBzR4)

Nuff said.
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: bobgroger on August 13, 2017, 10:32:10 pm
Are these the correct batteries?
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/panasonic-bsg/CR-2032L-F1N/P668-ND/2415266 (https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/panasonic-bsg/CR-2032L-F1N/P668-ND/2415266)
Looks like free shipping, no minimum...
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: BDF on August 14, 2017, 12:53:29 am
Yes, if you bend one tab and use some wire to connect one terminal.

Almost impossible to explain via words but easy to do visually. Basically, you turn the battery so one tab lines up with the arms of the sensor and solder them together. The bend the other one up over the edge of the battery,  it will land in the middle of the stem cut- out, and solder it to a thin wire, and wrap the wire around the sensor and connect it to the other terminal. I like to use 30 gauge solid wire (wire wrapping wire, with the insulator removed) but any thin wire will do. Just make sure it stays inside the sensor housing and cannot touch any metal parts, especially the stem.

Brian

Are these the correct batteries?
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/panasonic-bsg/CR-2032L-F1N/P668-ND/2415266 (https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/panasonic-bsg/CR-2032L-F1N/P668-ND/2415266)
Looks like free shipping, no minimum...
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: Rev Ryder on August 14, 2017, 02:07:11 am
Those are the same batteries I use, but I do not add any wire.  I just use the tab that has the extra material and fold it tightly at a 45* angle and then bring it up and solder to the appropriate post on the circuit board part.  Might be easier to use a piece of wire though.  I just never have in several dozen exchanges.
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: BDF on August 14, 2017, 02:00:10 pm
I never fold a tab over in a 180 degree bend; they fatigue if you look at them too hard, and I have broken more than one on the first fold. And because these batteries go in a high vibration environment, I am even more wary of the fold.

Of course that is just my opinion and so if folding the tabs actually works, then certainly that trumps whatever I think may happen :-)

And the really nice part about using the wire is that it is so malleable and forgiving to put wherever you want it to go, and it solders instantly to the both tabs. And what got me using the wire in the first place was that I got a bunch of batteries in with the tabs positioned too close to each other to spay wide enough to reach both tabs without getting in the way of the stem. So I got used to the wire and came to actually prefer doing it that way. Gee, sort of sounds like how addictions start, huh? :-)

Brian

Those are the same batteries I use, but I do not add any wire.  I just use the tab that has the extra material and fold it tightly at a 45* angle and then bring it up and solder to the appropriate post on the circuit board part.  Might be easier to use a piece of wire though.  I just never have in several dozen exchanges.
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: Demon Dog on August 27, 2017, 12:31:39 am
Here is another option or you can make your own with wire and shrink wrap:

http://www.jameco.com/z/CR1220-WIRE-LEADS-3V-CR1220-Lithium-Coin-Cell-Battery-with-Leads_2210010.html?CID=GOOG&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIornbmpz21QIVCTBpCh1hDwtSEAQYAyABEgJJvfD_BwE (http://www.jameco.com/z/CR1220-WIRE-LEADS-3V-CR1220-Lithium-Coin-Cell-Battery-with-Leads_2210010.html?CID=GOOG&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIornbmpz21QIVCTBpCh1hDwtSEAQYAyABEgJJvfD_BwE)
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: Bikergofast on March 06, 2018, 04:48:09 pm
Are these the correct batteries?
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/panasonic-bsg/CR-2032L-F1N/P668-ND/2415266 (https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/panasonic-bsg/CR-2032L-F1N/P668-ND/2415266)
Looks like free shipping, no minimum...
Did anyone confirm if these batteries are ok? Or is it generic enough that any 3V 20mm dia battery will work?
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: connie_rider on March 06, 2018, 05:05:31 pm
I have a 2014 Connie with the other TPMS.
Has anyone found a way to install batteries in those yet?
Yes, I know of the difficulties'.   {just hoping}.....

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on March 06, 2018, 06:07:24 pm
Here is another option or you can make your own with wire and shrink wrap:

[url]http://www.jameco.com/z/CR1220-WIRE-LEADS-3V-CR1220-Lithium-Coin-Cell-Battery-with-Leads_2210010.html?CID=GOOG&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIornbmpz21QIVCTBpCh1hDwtSEAQYAyABEgJJvfD_BwE[/url] ([url]http://www.jameco.com/z/CR1220-WIRE-LEADS-3V-CR1220-Lithium-Coin-Cell-Battery-with-Leads_2210010.html?CID=GOOG&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIornbmpz21QIVCTBpCh1hDwtSEAQYAyABEgJJvfD_BwE[/url])


I realise this is an old post, but was curious about that battery...
I don't think it would have enough juice to work, and if it did, it would not last a month, its a small cell, with only 38mah, compared to a normalnsized CR2032 which is about 180-200 mah.
But they do have one with wires, just had to look a bit...
https://www.jameco.com/z/CR2032-LEADS-3V-CR2032-Lithium-Coin-Battery-with-2-Inch-Leads_2223443.html (https://www.jameco.com/z/CR2032-LEADS-3V-CR2032-Lithium-Coin-Battery-with-2-Inch-Leads_2223443.html)

They also have a CR2025, which is what the unit came with if ircc, but if you are planning to attach the batt to the exterior of the tpms and heatshrink it in place, and only run wires in thru a hole to solder to existing tabs (as the heatshrink on thes replacements likely won't fit inside the shell now) it should work, the 2025 has a lower mah rating than the 2032 tho,

Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: ZXtasy on March 06, 2018, 07:22:25 pm
I am with Connie Rider, curious as to the road blocks in conquering the newer style. I checked my 2013 last night, since both TPMS are giving me low battery especially in the cold. I have the old style in the front and the newer in the rear. :( I figure I will reverse engineer or destructively test it trying to figure it out when the time comes. By then I may stumble across a non stupid expensive replacement or  find another old style. Would like to see one internally if anyone has already gone that route.
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on March 06, 2018, 09:10:25 pm
Its been attempted, but so far no joy...
Could have been bad batts as installed, or damage to the unit during the attempt.. can't say... id be willing to attempt this now, after seeing the attempted "process" that was used, and I think it could work...
But, the original batt in the new sensor is a 2050, larger format...


Interesting...
I can't copy/post the link to the post on the other site...will have to try again on my laptop later.. :??:

Edit to add, the actual datasheet on the 2050. (CR2050HR SBO-T23) can be found...
http://biz.maxell.com/en/primary_batteries/cr_heat-resisting.html#tab04 (http://biz.maxell.com/en/primary_batteries/cr_heat-resisting.html#tab04)


Well, that link didn't work, so go to this one, and go to "download" and grab the pdf formatted datasheet...
http://biz.maxell.com/en/primary_batteries/cr_heat-resisting.html (http://biz.maxell.com/en/primary_batteries/cr_heat-resisting.html)
Problem is getting to the bottom tabs solder point, but careful surgury may work, and there is a batt that does have wire leads and a mini plug... in that data sheet..
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: connie_rider on March 06, 2018, 09:30:57 pm
OK: Does anyone have a failed TPMS from a 2014 (maybe 2013) or newer?
       We need to do an operation....  >:D

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on March 06, 2018, 09:35:54 pm
OK: Does anyone have a failed TPMS from a 2014 (maybe 2013) or newer.
       We need to do an operation....  >:D

Ride safe, Ted

I would attempt it for sure if I had one...
I've got a dentist's drill, with very fine nibs, and a dremel set with every bit they ever made...
I'm sure I could dissect it after seeing the "dissection photos" Tree posted.
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: connie_rider on March 06, 2018, 09:49:09 pm
"OMG",,, {I just realized} MOB wants to play Doctor.....  :-\

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: ZXtasy on March 06, 2018, 10:38:47 pm
Reminds me of an old saying, "What is the difference between a doctor and God?"

God does not pretend to be a doctor.

I am down for surgical procedures on one of these too.

Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on March 06, 2018, 10:41:13 pm
"OMG",,, {I just realized} MOB wants to play Doctor.....  :-\

Ride safe, Ted

Yes
Be afraid Ted, be VERY afraid....
I do sutures verynwellntho, on myself, and.... on others.... bwaaahha haaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaa.

Oops, gotta steralize those instruments... hand me your BIC lighter... this might "pinch" a bit....
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: TimR on March 07, 2018, 01:42:12 am
OK: Does anyone have a failed TPMS from a 2014 (maybe 2013) or newer.
       We need to do an operation....  >:D

Ride safe, Ted

I would attempt it for sure if I had one...
I've got a dentist's drill, with very fine nibs, and a dremel set with every bit they ever made...
I'm sure I could dissect it after seeing the "dissection photos" Tree posted.

Rich, it sounds to me like a way to make a big mess on the work bench.  ;D
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: ghostrider990 on March 07, 2018, 01:04:35 pm
I respect you guys for being so diligent and dogged on this issue, but the more I read - the more I just figure I'll replace the older modules with the newer ones under warranty at my next tire change.

If I still own the bike by time the "new" set dies, I'll just pay to replace those with the newer ones.

What a hassle!!

gr
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: connie_rider on March 07, 2018, 04:05:08 pm
I agree it would be a bit of work, but we have our reasons.

1} We're tight.. Frugal
2} We're poor.,  Frugal
3} They say it can't be done, so we WANT to do it anyway!!

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on March 07, 2018, 06:55:29 pm
Face it Ted, were just plain CHEAP... :rotflmao: :nananana:

Annnnnnnnnd.... I wanna try it.... :truce: :great:

I'm figuring on minimal destruction, just basically getting into and cutting the existing tabs from the dead batt, and attaching the wires from a new batt to those tabs once disconnected from the old batt...leaving it all potted in place, and then glue and heatshrink over the new batt external of the case, in the minimal recess I cut away.
If it works well, I will offer, for a price, to replace them....   anything that saves $300 and doesn't require a KDS and techs time and bill, is worth it...
I luckily had mine replaced under extended KPP, but was also lucky when I did, as they used the old style... so win win for me,
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: RUFFSTUFF on March 12, 2018, 01:33:28 am
Sure looks like it!
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: TimR on March 12, 2018, 04:27:43 am
Quote
anything that saves $300 and doesn't require a KDS and techs time and bill, is worth it...

Is also why I will stick with the old style until a new battery won't fix em any more. 
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: Grant on March 12, 2018, 11:26:20 am
Crap I am riding a brand new bike with only 1400 miles on it and the TPMS is already only working some times. We have a 2005 Tahoe that's been a pain since day one I am glad my pickup is a 1 ton and in 2006 it was an option not required on 1 ton and up. A gauge in my tool kit works good for me....
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: jwh20 on March 12, 2018, 01:46:54 pm
Crap I am riding a brand new bike with only 1400 miles on it and the TPMS is already only working some times. We have a 2005 Tahoe that's been a pain since day one I am glad my pickup is a 1 ton and in 2006 it was an option not required on 1 ton and up. A gauge in my tool kit works good for me....

Surely that 2016 is still under warranty. 
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: TimR on March 13, 2018, 04:31:54 am
Crap I am riding a brand new bike with only 1400 miles on it and the TPMS is already only working some times. We have a 2005 Tahoe that's been a pain since day one I am glad my pickup is a 1 ton and in 2006 it was an option not required on 1 ton and up. A gauge in my tool kit works good for me....

Surely that 2016 is still under warranty.

I think the TPMS batteries have a 5 year warranty. Grant you might as well get your sensors replaced because it probably has the new style for sure.....that said I like the TPS on the C14. It has saved me running on a totally flat tire a couple of times. The Tahoe can have a flat tire and you still have a spare. 
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: Rev Ryder on March 13, 2018, 06:36:45 pm
Crap I am riding a brand new bike with only 1400 miles on it and the TPMS is already only working some times. We have a 2005 Tahoe that's been a pain since day one I am glad my pickup is a 1 ton and in 2006 it was an option not required on 1 ton and up. A gauge in my tool kit works good for me....

Surely that 2016 is still under warranty.

I think the TPMS batteries have a 5 year warranty. Grant you might as well get your sensors replaced because it probably has the new style for sure.....that said I like the TPS on the C14. It has saved me running on a totally flat tire a couple of times. The Tahoe can have a flat tire and you still have a spare.

True Dat!!!
I sure appreciate the TPMS.  Will have to cross that battery bridge when I get there I reckon.
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on March 13, 2018, 06:51:38 pm
Crap I am riding a brand new bike with only 1400 miles on it and the TPMS is already only working some times. We have a 2005 Tahoe that's been a pain since day one I am glad my pickup is a 1 ton and in 2006 it was an option not required on 1 ton and up. A gauge in my tool kit works good for me....

Surely that 2016 is still under warranty.

I think the TPMS batteries have a 5 year warranty. Grant you might as well get your sensors replaced because it probably has the new style for sure.....that said I like the TPS on the C14. It has saved me running on a totally flat tire a couple of times. The Tahoe can have a flat tire and you still have a spare.


I had the sensors replaced on the bike I bought in 07 just before my first KPP expired, and it was fully covered.
Perfect timing as they installed newly manufactured old style sensors... I assume some of the last ones that existed prior to the changeover.

That KPP (GTPP originally) did pay for itself.
Title: Re: TPMS Batteries
Post by: Harry Martin on April 07, 2018, 02:58:11 am
When my batteries crap out, I'll try that...just for something to do.  :)