Author Topic: Valve adjust....I just didn't want to do it...So  (Read 2703 times)

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Offline Dirtwiz

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Valve adjust....I just didn't want to do it...So
« on: April 28, 2018, 10:15:34 pm »
Just so you guys know...Fred Harmon is still taking customers in the Fort Worth area. I just couldn't put myself thru the hassle of doing it myself so I took a 1,250 mile ride to Fort Worth and had Fred do it. He retired from his day job a couple weeks ago but will continue to do side work on Gold Wings and Concours in his home shop. I've done valve adjusts on every motorcycle I've had for the last 50+ years but I just didn't have the energy to tear into this thing. I rode 4 full days to get there and back averaging just over 600 miles per day. Great ride but glad to be home. If anyone feels the need to skip the hassle of doing this nasty job and wants it done right by a perfectionist, consider riding in to have Fred do it . I had to wait 2 days in a hotel while he worked on it and actually stayed a 3rd day due to a rain storm that moved in on the day I was to leave. Good time and a great guy to work with.
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Offline khager01

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Re: Valve adjust....I just didn't want to do it...So
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2018, 12:42:17 am »
That's good to know, how much does he charge?
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Offline Dirtwiz

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Re: Valve adjust....I just didn't want to do it...So
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2018, 02:11:51 am »
You better check with Fred but my original quote for just the valve adjust was $750 but if you have canyon cages (which I don't) it was more. His time is your money which is fair to me. I kept adding things like coolant flush, air filter, clutch flush, throttle body sync, so I ran the price up a bit but the personalized service by a diligent and meticulous guy is worth it to me. He replaced 13 shims on mine and 3 were way tight but the other 10 shims were replaced to get the specs centered. Unlike a dealer you get pics of the cams out of the bike, a complete shim map, and for me the confidence to ride 1,250 miles home without a problem. I take a trip every year so this time I got some work done too. The bike has 47,000 miles on it.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2018, 02:15:27 am by Dirtwiz »
In theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice, they aren't. Without data you are just another guy with an opinion.

Offline Upstate Pete

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Re: Valve adjust....I just didn't want to do it...So
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2018, 03:35:47 am »
I'm actually in the midst of doing mine right now. I spent the day removing body panels, cowling struts, suction valves and a ton of plugs and connectors. I had a deer destroy the body a couple years ago, so I'm pretty familiar with getting that on and off. I am curious though. At 47,000 miles, is this your first adjustment? Mine is at 52,000, and this is my first time under the cover. She still runs great, so I'm hoping it's not too bad. If you can get this done for $750, I'd say its a steel. I was quoted $1200, but I still had inner cowling panels to replace from the deer strike, not to mention some dyna-mat and foam body gaskets I hadn't replaced yet. (No, that stuff don't come with replacement panels. Nor do any of the fasteners.) Live and learn....
I can see mine going into, at least, a third day. Besides the extra body panels, I've got plugs, gaskets, and cover O-rings to do. Not to mention I found the suction valve hoses need replacing, and I figure to do the antifreeze, oil and filter while I'm at it. I have learned that I need a 5mm 1/4" allen socket. Doing those suction reed covers with a standard allen wrench is a nightmare.
I do have to say these things are an amazing machine. I'm on my 6th year, and other that the deer damage, all I've done is farkle it up, change the oil regularly and feed it tires, and a couple sets of brake pads. Oh yea, last year I replaced the fluid in the front brakes, and the battery. Not because it was bad, but because it was 5 years old. She's never failed to get me home, even after t-boning a deer in NY.

Offline jwh20

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Re: Valve adjust....I just didn't want to do it...So
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2018, 10:02:14 am »
I'm actually in the midst of doing mine right now...

I'll just post this again, but don't bother going to your dealer for replacement shims.  Dealers, local or online NEVER have them in stock.  The best source is RidersDomain (formerly known as JakeWilson) and they not only show you the actual stock on hand when you order they ship FAST!

These ProX shims come in the same sizes as OEM and are, in my experience, first-rate!  (Yes, it says these are for a Yamaha FJR1300 but these are the correct shims for the C14.  You also can't beat their prices at $1.99 each:

https://www.ridersdomain.com/motorcycle-parts/pro-x-valve-shim-p?v=2005-YAMAHA-FJR1300
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Offline Dirtwiz

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Re: Valve adjust....I just didn't want to do it...So
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2018, 03:43:15 pm »
I'm actually in the midst of doing mine right now. I spent the day removing body panels, cowling struts, suction valves and a ton of plugs and connectors. I had a deer destroy the body a couple years ago, so I'm pretty familiar with getting that on and off. I am curious though. At 47,000 miles, is this your first adjustment? Mine is at 52,000, and this is my first time under the cover. She still runs great, so I'm hoping it's not too bad. If you can get this done for $750, I'd say its a steel. I was quoted $1200, but I still had inner cowling panels to replace from the deer strike, not to mention some dyna-mat and foam body gaskets I hadn't replaced yet. (No, that stuff don't come with replacement panels. Nor do any of the fasteners.) Live and learn....
I can see mine going into, at least, a third day. Besides the extra body panels, I've got plugs, gaskets, and cover O-rings to do. Not to mention I found the suction valve hoses need replacing, and I figure to do the antifreeze, oil and filter while I'm at it. I have learned that I need a 5mm 1/4" allen socket. Doing those suction reed covers with a standard allen wrench is a nightmare.
I do have to say these things are an amazing machine. I'm on my 6th year, and other that the deer damage, all I've done is farkle it up, change the oil regularly and feed it tires, and a couple sets of brake pads. Oh yea, last year I replaced the fluid in the front brakes, and the battery. Not because it was bad, but because it was 5 years old. She's never failed to get me home, even after t-boning a deer in NY.
I had a dealer do my first valve service at 24,000 miles. Supposed valve adjust, coolant flush, plugs, and air filter. $370 and 3.5 hours labor......I knew that was impossible especially after it took Fred 2 full days to do mine right. So to answer your question this was my first valve adjust at 46,000. I am not going to do another valve adjust and will just ride it until 100,000+ and see where it goes from there. Its a 2011 so the value at 100K is not going to be worth the money involved in another valve adjust and it probably won't need one anyway. I have the bike set up the way I want it and am going to ride it as long as I feel like it. Having it right is so much peace of mind I am going to enjoy it for a long time.
In theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice, they aren't. Without data you are just another guy with an opinion.

Offline Upstate Pete

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Re: Valve adjust....I just didn't want to do it...So
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2018, 01:57:16 am »
Yea, I try to be prepared and already bought a full shim kit too. And as far as dealers go, I haven't brought mine to one since it went off the three year warrantee. Knowing the manual calls for a valve check at 15,000, I brought mine in at 20,000. I asked the mechanic about checking the valves. (This is the guy who had changed my oil, mounted and balanced tires and replaced tire pressure sensors and dealt with the brake peddle recall on mine to that point.) Basically, the lead mechanic at this mom and pop shop. He just looked at me and asked, "why? is it tapping?" I said "no" to which he replied "look, I'll tear this down as far as you want me to, but it's going to cost." So at that point I thought it'd be good till I heard it tapping. :-[ Listening to you guys, I know better now.
Since it's gone off warrantee, I've bought the service manual, and done everything myself. Not that it's needed much. Yea, things are warring. I worry about the shock, swing arm bearings, timing chain, hoses, brake and clutch lines. It's still worth more to me then I'll ever get out of it. At 57, it's the fastest machine I'll probably ever own. Oh yea, I have to agree. This is the only valve job it's ever going to get. I'd love to see 100,000 out of it. At that point I'd have to say I've got my moneys worth out of it.

Offline jwh20

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Re: Valve adjust....I just didn't want to do it...So
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2018, 10:07:40 am »
Yea, I try to be prepared and already bought a full shim kit too. And as far as dealers go, I haven't brought mine to one since it went off the three year warrantee. Knowing the manual calls for a valve check at 15,000, I brought mine in at 20,000. I asked the mechanic about checking the valves. (This is the guy who had changed my oil, mounted and balanced tires and replaced tire pressure sensors and dealt with the brake peddle recall on mine to that point.) Basically, the lead mechanic at this mom and pop shop. He just looked at me and asked, "why? is it tapping?" I said "no" to which he replied "look, I'll tear this down as far as you want me to, but it's going to cost." So at that point I thought it'd be good till I heard it tapping. :-[ Listening to you guys, I know better now.
Since it's gone off warrantee, I've bought the service manual, and done everything myself. Not that it's needed much. Yea, things are warring. I worry about the shock, swing arm bearings, timing chain, hoses, brake and clutch lines. It's still worth more to me then I'll ever get out of it. At 57, it's the fastest machine I'll probably ever own. Oh yea, I have to agree. This is the only valve job it's ever going to get. I'd love to see 100,000 out of it. At that point I'd have to say I've got my moneys worth out of it.

IMHO you made a wise choice by NOT having that "mechanic" work on your bike.  The C14, like virtually all modern engines with shim-and-bucket valve lifters, does NOT "tap" when it needs adjustment.  In nearly ever case you will find that the valves have tightened to the low-end of the in-spec range vs. loosening.  I am sure that it's happened somewhere but  I have NEVER encountered a C14 valve that was "loose".  They are either too-tight or in-spec.

But nobody can tell if the valves are out of specification by listening.  So this guy was basically speaking from ignorance and is not the sort of person you want working on your engine.  "Lead mechanic" huh?
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Offline Just Cliff

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Re: Valve adjust....I just didn't want to do it...So
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2018, 11:42:18 am »
So to answer your question this was my first valve adjust at 46,000. I am not going to do another valve adjust and will just ride it until 100,000+ and see where it goes from there. Its a 2011 so the value at 100K is not going to be worth the money involved in another valve adjust and it probably won't need one anyway. 

Speaking from experience I will disagree with you. It will need it again & if you plan to ride in the ground you will need do it. I understand the whole value thing, but it want keep running if you don't maintain it.

Mine were done at 64,000 & 8 were tight. Then again at 120,000 & all were tight with 2 having almost no clearance. Third time at 195,000 & a few had moved but well within clearance.

Just my .02!

Cliff   :beerchug: 

 

Offline EZ

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Re: Valve adjust....I just didn't want to do it...So
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2018, 05:13:51 pm »

Quote

Speaking from experience I will disagree with you. It will need it again & if you plan to ride in the ground you will need do it. I understand the whole value thing, but it want keep running if you don't maintain it.

Mine were done at 64,000 & 8 were tight. Then again at 120,000 & all were tight with 2 having almost no clearance. Third time at 195,000 & a few had moved but well within clearance.

Just my .02!

Cliff   :beerchug:

195,000!!!  Good Heavens man  :great: :beerchug:            ....carry on
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Offline Throttle 8

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Re: Valve adjust....I just didn't want to do it...So
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2018, 01:12:15 am »
So to answer your question this was my first valve adjust at 46,000. I am not going to do another valve adjust and will just ride it until 100,000+ and see where it goes from there. Its a 2011 so the value at 100K is not going to be worth the money involved in another valve adjust and it probably won't need one anyway. 

Speaking from experience I will disagree with you. It will need it again & if you plan to ride in the ground you will need do it. I understand the whole value thing, but it want keep running if you don't maintain it.

Mine were done at 64,000 & 8 were tight. Then again at 120,000 & all were tight with 2 having almost no clearance. Third time at 195,000 & a few had moved but well within clearance.

Just my .02!

Cliff   :beerchug:

I think she may be getting run in finally!!!  ;D
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Offline Dirtwiz

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Re: Valve adjust....I just didn't want to do it...So
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2018, 11:07:29 pm »
From Fred Harmon Valve Adjust.
In theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice, they aren't. Without data you are just another guy with an opinion.

Offline JeffP

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Re: Valve adjust....I just didn't want to do it...So
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2018, 11:57:25 am »
By the way, I noticed today that MurphsKits.com has a valve adjustment kit that comes with shims, valve cover gasket and some other goodies. Price is around $125 or so.
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Offline AmphibSailor

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Re: Valve adjust....I just didn't want to do it...So
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2018, 02:09:36 pm »
Does it come with shims?  The only kit I saw was for the soft parts.
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Offline smithr1

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Re: Valve adjust....I just didn't want to do it...So
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2018, 05:41:14 pm »
I had that kit.  Unless it has changed there are NO shims.
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Offline AmphibSailor

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Re: Valve adjust....I just didn't want to do it...So
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2018, 06:21:54 pm »
I had that kit.  Unless it has changed there are NO shims.

I didn't think so, but wanted it clarified.  Perhaps the OP has some new information. 
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Valve adjust....I just didn't want to do it...So
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2018, 07:55:28 pm »
https://www.murphskits.com/product_info.php?products_id=525&osCsid=ssWV2A9IAXeBIZ564ZEVe1

Its all the needed gaskets, orings, and seals, and some sealant included, plugs are an adder option $35, so you have to pick your kit options...

No shims included....

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Offline Vic

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Re: Valve adjust....I just didn't want to do it...So
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2018, 05:26:47 am »
Just so you guys know...Fred Harmon is still taking customers in the Fort Worth area. I just couldn't put myself thru the hassle of doing it myself so I took a 1,250 mile ride to Fort Worth and had Fred do it. He retired from his day job a couple weeks ago but will continue to do side work on Gold Wings and Concours in his home shop. I've done valve adjusts on every motorcycle I've had for the last 50+ years but I just didn't have the energy to tear into this thing. I rode 4 full days to get there and back averaging just over 600 miles per day. Great ride but glad to be home. If anyone feels the need to skip the hassle of doing this nasty job and wants it done right by a perfectionist, consider riding in to have Fred do it . I had to wait 2 days in a hotel while he worked on it and actually stayed a 3rd day due to a rain storm that moved in on the day I was to leave. Good time and a great guy to work with.

I think you have inspired me and given me a mission to accomplish this upcoming vacation period!

Offline Dirtwiz

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Re: Valve adjust....I just didn't want to do it...So
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2018, 01:33:00 am »
Vic....I can't say enough about how easy it was. So worth it to me. Benbrook is kind of a cool place to hang out for a couple days too.
In theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice, they aren't. Without data you are just another guy with an opinion.

Offline Max

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Re: Valve adjust....I just didn't want to do it...So
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2018, 02:48:22 am »
i keep saying om gonna get steve or fred to do it, im at 30k now so its time just gotta make time in the schedule to get there.  I dont have time to do it or time to take it to someone i trust. the local dealers are OUT as far as valve shim work, i used to have to do theirs when they would get one in and noone knew how to pull and replace/degree cams or figure shim replacement sizes. its a lot easier on racebikes that are stripped down already.  as much junk as there is on modern bikes its a day just getting one peeled down and back togather, plus whatever you have do do under the valvecovers..ugh.

Offline Dirtwiz

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Re: Valve adjust....I just didn't want to do it...So
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2018, 11:09:57 pm »
30K+ is probably a good time to get it set right. It's all about peace of mind and lack of hassle for me.
In theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice, they aren't. Without data you are just another guy with an opinion.

Offline Wolverine

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Re: Valve adjust....I just didn't want to do it...So
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2018, 11:21:45 pm »
so jumping in the fray, with 17K on my new to me 2009 y'all think I should do them?
Thanks

Rick

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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Valve adjust....I just didn't want to do it...So
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2018, 11:37:51 pm »
You really can't ask that of us, as you will get answers in both directions.. some will say yes, some will boast about not doing it till 50k, or even never doing them... all depends on YOU... your expectations of length of ownership, vs are ya gonna ditch it and buy something else before you put 5-10k thousand more miles on it..
At this point, warrantee ain't gonna come into the equation, so its up to you... its a complex, but doable job if you have skills, and tools, and especially patiance and attention to details.

I checked mine around the same point, and decided to "stretch it" to see what happened in the next season of riding..when I did mine the second time, it was clear to me, that had I made the adjustments originally, instead of just checking and recording gaps... I would have been better off doing them all then, and not having to go back in a second time, to do it.. 90% of it is getting to them, and buttoning it all back up.
The actual shim measurement, and replacement, is just a minimal couple hours... the time spent prior, and finding shims, and reassembling, is the consuming part.

I'm comfortable in what I did, but I will never say to forego the inspection, its the only way you can see what's in there..


I don't plan on buying another "new" bike ever again.. so in my mind, if I can make it last 20 years (its over 10yr old now), I'm satisfied.

Ride safe

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Offline Dirtwiz

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Re: Valve adjust....I just didn't want to do it...So
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2018, 02:26:22 am »
so jumping in the fray, with 17K on my new to me 2009 y'all think I should do them?
Wolverine...MOB has been around these bikes a lot longer than I have but I will make a guess at this. If I was you i'd wait until you thought it necessary but surely before 50,000 depending on how hard you ride.  I had mine checked at 24,000 miles by a dealer and they charged 3.5 hours labor so I know they didn't change any shims and just stuck them and called them good....that's why I went to Fred Harmon at 47K to have them done right. I run full synthetic Amsoil, do 5,000 mile oil changes, and ride a lot of 5th and 6th gear miles so most are at 3,500 to 4,000 RPM. The exception to this riding style was when I first had Steves flash done and enjoyed a lot of rollons to 7,500 rpm or so before Freds valve adjust. Now I just ride conservatively and enjoy the the occasional 6,000 rpm burst every 100 miles or so. At this rate I'm planning on riding another 50,000 to 75,000 miles before I consider a valve adjust again. If riding style and good oil maintenance has anything to do with it (and I think it might) I don't see it being worth spending the money on a bike with that low a value by then. Maybe though. I ride about 14,000 miles a year since I've had it.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2018, 02:30:49 am by Dirtwiz »
In theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice, they aren't. Without data you are just another guy with an opinion.

Offline Wolverine

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Re: Valve adjust....I just didn't want to do it...So
« Reply #24 on: May 30, 2018, 09:00:25 am »
Thanks guys, I think what I will do is..do it.. But I am gonna wait until the end of the year when my riding is done, this way I can take my time, I really lack patience when it comes to things like this, only because if it's warm out I don't want to be in the garage  :great:

So once deer season kicks off it will give me a lot of free time to do the work slowly.

Curious though, seems like the hardest part is finding the shims? Well besides taking everything apart
Thanks

Rick

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