Author Topic: Valve adjust in progress, a few updates and questions  (Read 803 times)

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Offline Salish14

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Valve adjust in progress, a few updates and questions
« on: September 05, 2017, 12:56:34 am »
Well I've spent chunks of my labor day weekend launching into my valve job. Here in the PNW our winters are relatively mild, but when it is 40 degrees and raining outside and 40 degrees in my garage, it is unpleasant to be working on cold metal. So now is the time for me to do this while we have a few solid weeks of temperatures above 65. I wouldn't post this but I've found a great deal of interest in all things valves on this site. Perhaps because it is among the most common and yet technical things most of us tackle on our bikes.

Cutting to the chase I'm to the point of reading shims. I'm terrified at the thought of trying to put everything back together in something resembling their original configuration. Thank you Fred! I'm relying on him for all things.

What I found when I measured my clearances was somewhat alarming. All of my intake valves were at .005. Every one. I'll be changing all those shims. At least these were still at the lowest end of spec. My exhaust valves were all either .006 or .007. An even split of those measurements. Given that the lowest measure in spec is .008, all my exhaust are out of spec. And by the way, this is my first valve job and the bike is dead on 15,000. So I'll be changing all those too.

Can I just say here LOUD and CLEAR how grateful I am for the Excel spreadsheet shim maps that someone made and are available on this forum. Damn that is useful.

A couple questions. For one, the excel sheet shim map has some data on shim numbers and purported thicknesses. I've measured four of my shims. Two of them had no marking for a #. The other two had numbers 28 and 30. Of these two, one of them had a number on the excel sheet that was off from what I measured directly. Off by a decent amount actually. I guess this is normal.

My main question is what people do with the shims you've pulled out that you KNOW you are going to replace. Fred in his videos puts all them back into their spots after he measures them. That seems tedious. That means I have to pull them all out again. Do people pull them out and use some marking or mapping system to keep track since you hope to take them to a local dealer and swap them for different sizes?

Anyway, progress is happening. Thanks to all here who have posted their wisdom.  :great:
We sit together, the mountain and me, until only the mountain remains.

2008 ABS Silver with 15,000 and counting

Offline jwh20

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Re: Valve adjust in progress, a few updates and questions
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2017, 10:53:22 am »
Quote
A couple questions. For one, the excel sheet shim map has some data on shim numbers and purported thicknesses. I've measured four of my shims. Two of them had no marking for a #. The other two had numbers 28 and 30. Of these two, one of them had a number on the excel sheet that was off from what I measured directly. Off by a decent amount actually. I guess this is normal.

My main question is what people do with the shims you've pulled out that you KNOW you are going to replace. Fred in his videos puts all them back into their spots after he measures them. That seems tedious. That means I have to pull them all out again. Do people pull them out and use some marking or mapping system to keep track since you hope to take them to a local dealer and swap them for different sizes?


I've found that not all shims are marked.  Don't worry about it because, as you have seen, even when they ARE marked the numbers can be off from the actual measurement.  Always go by your measurements vs. the etched numbers.

If your local dealer is amenable to swapping, then by all means do that.  But I've found that my local dealer does not even have a shim kit, so it's anyone's guess how they might attempt a valve adjustment.  The best source I've found is Jake Wilson.  You can see right online if they have stock or not, they ship fast, and they are inexpensive.  The ProX shims also come in the "1/2 sizes" just like the OEM ones.

Here is the link:

https://www.jakewilson.com/p/3998/26634/Pro-X-Valve-Shim?term=shim

As far as putting them back after measuring, I don't do that.  I use an "organizer" box and put the shim and bucket for each valve in its own place while I get the needed shims.  Something like this:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Stanley-25-Compartments-Shallow-Professional-Small-Parts-Organizer-014725R/203707065
« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 10:57:31 am by jwh20 »
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Offline Salish14

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Re: Valve adjust in progress, a few updates and questions
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2017, 01:39:14 pm »
Well you answered my questions in a clear way jwh20, thanks! I haven't called around yet to my local dealers, but plan to do that today. I'm going to make or get one of those organizers, it just makes no sense to me to put the shims back in.
We sit together, the mountain and me, until only the mountain remains.

2008 ABS Silver with 15,000 and counting

Offline jwh20

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Re: Valve adjust in progress, a few updates and questions
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2017, 02:38:56 pm »
Glad to help.  What I liked about that Stanley organizer is that it locks closed so when the inevitable drop or knock happens the shims and buckets will remain sorted and safe. 

Also I usually use a black sharpie marker and label each bucket so that I am sure I can get them back where they came from.

Good luck with the dealer!
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Offline Salish14

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Re: Valve adjust in progress, a few updates and questions
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2017, 06:00:44 pm »
Just learned my local shops will sell shims, but not swap them. I think I will order online as suggested.
We sit together, the mountain and me, until only the mountain remains.

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Offline jwh20

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Re: Valve adjust in progress, a few updates and questions
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2017, 06:12:34 pm »
But I'll bet they have ZERO shims in stock.  They always say, "we can order them in for you and have them next week."
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Offline CW

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Re: Valve adjust in progress, a few updates and questions
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2017, 09:13:33 pm »
Why would a dealer keep shims in stock if all valves ever checked always came back "in spec"?
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Offline jwh20

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Re: Valve adjust in progress, a few updates and questions
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2017, 10:23:52 pm »
Why would a dealer keep shims in stock if all valves ever checked always came back "in spec"?

Good point!
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Offline Salish14

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Re: Valve adjust in progress, a few updates and questions
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2017, 01:31:22 am »
Seriously. When I saw my exhaust valves were all way out of spec at this 15,000 mile valve job, I shudder to think what a dealer would have said. And what they would have been if I had waited until 20 or 30K. .006 is a full .002 out of lowest tolerance, and on an exhaust valve that means it is open longer than it should be, causing loss of horsepower. Very curious to see how she sounds and feels after this valve job.
We sit together, the mountain and me, until only the mountain remains.

2008 ABS Silver with 15,000 and counting

Offline Salish14

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Re: Valve adjust in progress, a few updates and questions
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2017, 02:43:37 pm »
SHE STARTED AND IDLED SMOOTHLY!!!! :great: :great: :great: :great: :great:

Got the engine buttoned up last night, put the radiator back on (absolutely take it off to do this job, makes it so much easier and no trouble to remove and return). Stood there for some time nervous and dreading. Looked at all the still dangling wires and hoping they were not to anything critical to engine running. Got on the bike, took a deep breath, and VROOM, PURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

What a moment of great relief! Now all the plastic and frame parts have to be installed, but she runs. I can't say how delighted I am.
We sit together, the mountain and me, until only the mountain remains.

2008 ABS Silver with 15,000 and counting

Offline Texas Concours14

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Re: Valve adjust in progress, a few updates and questions
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2017, 06:18:15 pm »
Well done! As a non-mechanic I too was nervous to start up the engine after putting everything back together. It was extremely gratifying to have it start up and run well. It is a PITA job but worth knowing that the valves were actually adjusted and done so properly.
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Offline Salish14

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Re: Valve adjust in progress, a few updates and questions
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2017, 08:44:27 pm »
Yes, in all my years of wrenching on cars and lighter jobs on my motorcycles, I have never been so satisfied or relieved as when my motor started and ran well last night. I'll be grateful when I put all the plastic and frame back on and take it for a good hard ride and don't have leaks or odd sounds too. Thank you Fred, for your videos. Worth every penny and more.
We sit together, the mountain and me, until only the mountain remains.

2008 ABS Silver with 15,000 and counting

Offline 4Bikes

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Re: Valve adjust in progress, a few updates and questions
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2017, 11:12:00 pm »
 :sign0098:   :motonoises:
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Offline Old Man on a Connie

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Re: Valve adjust in progress, a few updates and questions
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2017, 01:22:47 am »
 :great: :beerchug: ;)
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Offline ghostrider990

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Re: Valve adjust in progress, a few updates and questions
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2017, 02:22:22 am »
I felt the EXACT same way (fear / dread / RELIEF) when I did the Valves on my Aprilia a few years ago!!!

I don't know if I still have the juevos to do them on the C14!?  :o

Well done.

gr
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Offline Salish14

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Re: Valve adjust in progress, a few updates and questions
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2017, 06:28:51 am »
I felt the EXACT same way (fear / dread / RELIEF) when I did the Valves on my Aprilia a few years ago!!!

I don't know if I still have the juevos to do them on the C14!?  :o

Well done.

gr

My guess is that you'd have no real problem if you get Fred's videos like I did. It's tedious, and detailed, but nothing is especially difficult or painful. Just hundreds of little steps. I love wrenching, and like the cash to stay in my wallet for other uses. Like France next summer!
We sit together, the mountain and me, until only the mountain remains.

2008 ABS Silver with 15,000 and counting

Offline C. Moore

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Re: Valve adjust in progress, a few updates and questions
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2017, 09:39:16 am »
 :great: and you know for sure the job was done right. When I completed mine and was ready to fire it up I felt the same way. Sure is nice to hear that motor idle and ready to go.
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Offline jwh20

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Re: Valve adjust in progress, a few updates and questions
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2017, 12:02:10 pm »
:great: and you know for sure the job was done right. When I completed mine and was ready to fire it up I felt the same way. Sure is nice to hear that motor idle and ready to go.

Amen on the done right!  How do I know it's been done right when I do it?  It's because I take my time, double-check everything, and make sure everything is 100% correct.  It's my bike and my arse.  I'm not under pressure from the service manager to "wrap it up and bill it".  I can take my time, as much time as I need, and ensure a quality result. 

Not only that but you have some incredible resources and experience on this forum to assist you along the way!  I doubt there is any issue that hasn't been seen before on this forum and there are always folks around happy to jump in and offer advice.  Some of the people here see more C14's in a month than the typical dealer mechanic might see in a year and familiarity is always a plus IMHO!
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Offline 4Bikes

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Re: Valve adjust in progress, a few updates and questions
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2017, 12:14:07 pm »
:great: and you know for sure the job was done right. When I completed mine and was ready to fire it up I felt the same way. Sure is nice to hear that motor idle and ready to go.

Amen on the done right!  How do I know it's been done right when I do it?  It's because I take my time, double-check everything, and make sure everything is 100% correct.  It's my bike and my arse.  I'm not under pressure from the service manager to "wrap it up and bill it".  I can take my time, as much time as I need, and ensure a quality result. 

Not only that but you have some incredible resources and experience on this forum to assist you along the way!  I doubt there is any issue that hasn't been seen before on this forum and there are always folks around happy to jump in and offer advice.  Some of the people here see more C14's in a month than the typical dealer mechanic might see in a year and familiarity is always a plus IMHO!

 :goodpost:  Couldn't agree more.  As one more example, consider that you have your fairings in pieces.  No mechanic I know is going to clean up the insides before they go back on.  You will do it because you have the time and care. 
Silver 2011 C-14. Previous rides: KZ-400, KZ-750, KZ-1000.  Keep the rubber side down.  Ride Fast......Live Slow......