Author Topic: Valve Check 2011 after Steves flash. For what it's worth  (Read 1852 times)

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Offline Old Man on a Connie

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Valve Check 2011 after Steves flash. For what it's worth
« on: April 07, 2017, 11:23:25 pm »
In the process of doing my valve check at 55k on my 2011. Just to note if anyone may find this info valuable. Steve did his initial flash on my bike in Helen at the Nat. Then did the Evo flash in Jan this year. I rode home from Helen GA. to Hendo NV. I haven't touched the eco mode since. Put about 10k miles on since Helen. Doing the valve check/adjust the head is clean and pretty. No oil varnish, no heat indicators. Steves flash? Prolly not but my choice of lubricants. That's another thread  :) Pulled the plugs and all were a beautiful tan with no contamination zero dark areas. Compared to the plug's that were pulled at the 15k mark were a bit sooty with build up around the threads these were a plug readers dream. Just letting folks know for what it's worth. Sure looks like everything is burning clean and fully. The more ya know  :beerchug: ;)
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Offline Ken

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Re: Valve Check 2011 after Steves flash. For what it's worth
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2017, 01:54:18 am »
Question. What gas you using? I've used 87 reg the entire 18000+ miles on my 2013. Just under 2000 miles after the evo flash. (It's great) haven't looked at my plugs yet but will I see an improvement with higher octane fuel? I'm clear it's recommended.

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Valve Check 2011 after Steves flash. For what it's worth
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2017, 02:10:40 am »
Question. What gas you using? I've used 87 reg the entire 18000+ miles on my 2013. Just under 2000 miles after the evo flash. (It's great) haven't looked at my plugs yet but will I see an improvement with higher octane fuel? I'm clear it's recommended.

If you damage your engine, DO NOT post up that it's because of the flash... there's a reason I recommend premium same as kawasaki does. Steve
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Offline Road Runner

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Re: Valve Check 2011 after Steves flash. For what it's worth
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2017, 02:22:15 am »
Question. What gas you using? I've used 87 reg the entire 18000+ miles on my 2013. Just under 2000 miles after the evo flash. (It's great) haven't looked at my plugs yet but will I see an improvement with higher octane fuel? I'm clear it's recommended.

If you damage your engine, DO NOT post up that it's because of the flash... there's a reason I recommend premium same as kawasaki does. Steve

AMEN to that Steve. Not that you needed my or anyone else's  0.02  :-)
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Offline Old Man on a Connie

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Re: Valve Check 2011 after Steves flash. For what it's worth
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2017, 03:01:31 am »
I've used regular since day 1. Once in awhile I throw in some premium. Never any additives. Corn free when I can get it. W/O a full tear down these are just plug observations. And it looks pretty as can be.
"I don't always ride street bikes, but when I do, It's a Concours. A C14 '11 silver to be precise." OTP 2017 We gonna dance! Danke Schoen

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Valve Check 2011 after Steves flash. For what it's worth
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2017, 11:44:29 am »
87 might be fine... or it might not. Detonation damage is ugly and expensive. Steve
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Offline Fais

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Re: Valve Check 2011 after Steves flash. For what it's worth
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2017, 11:56:54 am »
I use 89 with Lucas Ethanol stuff or any octane rating available without ethanol . . .

Not because I know anything or believe anyone else should too - just adding $0.01

I used premium at the track for the sake of hammering the engine consistently and repeatedly lap after lap. I figured I was at max cylinder pressures and temps the entire sessions. For a 90mph cross country trip it doesn't seem necessary to pay a $5-$7 per tank for premium.

The gas cap on my Toyota say 'premium fuel only'. Question: Is that in regards to the octane or the quality of the gas? I have never put premium in it and she's still amazing after 150k.

Teach us something someone!

Nice post OMC - the engine is 'in tune' eh?! Righteous  :great:

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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Valve Check 2011 after Steves flash. For what it's worth
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2017, 12:12:30 pm »
Question: Is that in regards to the octane or the quality of the gas?

 reg - midgrade - premium - are all descriptive of the octane ratings, not the additive package. The higher the octane rating, the greater the fuels ability to withstand heat and resist unintended ignition, IE detonation or preignition damage.

  Remember that tuning is also gaining cylinder pressure - that's where the torque comes from - so if you're leaning on the engine with higher throttle openings that resistance to ignition is going to be important at some point. running low octane will help you find that point more easily. Steve
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Offline Fais

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Re: Valve Check 2011 after Steves flash. For what it's worth
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2017, 12:36:54 pm »
Question: Is that in regards to the octane or the quality of the gas?

 reg - midgrade - premium - are all descriptive of the octane ratings, not the additive package.

Thanks Steve - i was imagining semantics between Japan and the U.S. being different in regards to the word 'premium'. I guess just to make myself feel better about using lower grades. D'oh  :truce:

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Offline BerndV

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Re: Valve Check 2011 after Steves flash. For what it's worth
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2017, 03:00:21 pm »
I will never understand people putting 87 octane gas in cars and motorcycles that specifically call for gas with a minimum octane of 91.  The engineers that design these machines actually know what their designs require.  The C14 does not have a knock sensor that can retard the ignition advance if there is detonation or preignition.  What are you saving over the course of a year?  If you ride 10,000 miles a year and only get 30 mpg, you are saving $166 if the price differential is $0.50.  People will spend hundreds of dollars on farkles and cheap out on low octane gas.  Sorry, but IMO this is just stupidity.
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Offline Fais

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Re: Valve Check 2011 after Steves flash. For what it's worth
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2017, 03:15:16 pm »
Well i honor your opinion. Stupidity. Thats what i have and that's your opinion! This stupid guy has a garage full of toys and only rhe turbos get premium every time :great:

I have seen enough signs like 'watch your step' and 'wait for doors to ooen before entering the train' to not give a second thought to signs.

Companies make things idiot proof. Their rules are for the person who does no maintenance, etc. I wouldn't recommend anyone use anything not recommended by the manufacturer. It's just safe.

Myself? I use Rotella diesel oil in all my vehicles. Don't even own a diesel. As I said before; in my stupid opinion, crossing Kansas at 75mpg doesn't require premium. I spend a lot and save pennies here and there. Never had a problem yet!

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Re: Valve Check 2011 after Steves flash. For what it's worth
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2017, 03:40:29 pm »
Anyone doing math: I put 39k on C14s in '16. Much of it out west where premium can be $1 0r more than $1.50 per gallon.

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Offline BerndV

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Re: Valve Check 2011 after Steves flash. For what it's worth
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2017, 03:46:59 pm »
There is a big difference between anti-litigation idiot signs and engineering recommendations regarding octane and lubricants.  The notion that this applies only to those who don't do their own maintenance is absurd.  I do all of my own maintenance and modifications on every machine I own.  I also routinely ignore speed limit signs by triple digit margins.  I too have a garage full of toys (see my signature) and an Extra 330LT in my hangar.  I also happen to have a PhD in Aeronautical Engineering and spent 20 years designing jet engines for a living before retiring at 50.  Your entitled to your opinion as am I.  BTW, I live and ride out west and the price delta for ethanol premium is about $0.50 and for non-ethanol it is about $0.70. 
« Last Edit: April 08, 2017, 03:54:48 pm by BerndV »
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Offline Fais

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Re: Valve Check 2011 after Steves flash. For what it's worth
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2017, 04:09:16 pm »
1976 BMW R90S (Luna) - 2000 KLR650 (Dirt McGirt) - 2005 SV1000 (Sue) - 2006 Vespa PX150 (Vino Negro) - 2014 C14 (Betty) - 2017 Z125Pro (MiniZ)
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Offline rrsperry

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Re: Valve Check 2011 after Steves flash. For what it's worth
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2017, 07:21:34 pm »
Chevy engineers tell me to use premium in my Lt1 direct injection Corvette.  Now, I have a degree in mechanical engineering, operated reactor plants on submarines, and am not a dumb guy. I don't have alternative facts, so I believe them.

If Steve says to use premium, I use premium.

You are of course, free to do and use what you want. Just let me know when you sell or trade your vehicles, so I can steer clear...

Offline Fais

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Re: Valve Check 2011 after Steves flash. For what it's worth
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2017, 07:32:23 pm »
You guys are so mad i buy the grade I buy! Why?!

Why?!

I don't get it. The OP just posted how great his plugs look on regular. The highest mile C14 in the club has only ever run regular. I have nothing but great running machines. Your choice of grade can't make me feel one way or the other. If anything you guys should be glad we posted knowing that your bikes must be in superior shape to ours. Kudos  :beerchug:

See where I said just sharing not recommending? You guys snowed in or something :nananana:
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Offline Old Man on a Connie

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Re: Valve Check 2011 after Steves flash. For what it's worth
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2017, 08:27:36 pm »
Stupid? Haven't been called that in a long time. Foolish yes, Reckless sometimes. Stupid? Sorry can't accept it. Best of luck to ya'll. Sorry to see an intended positive thread turned into a oil/tire/seat/windscreen/octane I'm smarter than you are thread. Ride on.
"I don't always ride street bikes, but when I do, It's a Concours. A C14 '11 silver to be precise." OTP 2017 We gonna dance! Danke Schoen

Offline Fais

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Re: Valve Check 2011 after Steves flash. For what it's worth
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2017, 08:44:38 pm »
Stupid? Haven't been called that in a long time. Foolish yes, Reckless sometimes. Stupid? Sorry can't accept it. Best of luck to ya'll. Sorry to see an intended positive thread turned into a oil/tire/seat/windscreen/octane I'm smarter than you are thread. Ride on.

Nothing beats the high road eh OMC? I stand with you on this one. 

We're just a couple of 'regular' guys  :))
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Offline old n slow

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Re: Valve Check 2011 after Steves flash. For what it's worth
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2017, 11:56:52 pm »
After reading this thread I had to double check that I wasnt on the BMWMOA sight!! By the way, I have a high school diploma, circa 1980. I sweep the floors of a machine shop for a living.  :nananana: :great:
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Offline Fais

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Re: Valve Check 2011 after Steves flash. For what it's worth
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2017, 12:07:32 am »
Free metal shavings? Send some my way. I need to make some wheel weights  :rotflmao: :D

btw my old BMW gets premium  (and Rotella) :-\  :great:

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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Valve Check 2011 after Steves flash. For what it's worth
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2017, 01:21:18 am »
Those of you in the know have the private info that I built the flashes on 89 octane. That's all my bike runs. So why do I suggest premium, and not support using regular? Simple. I know that 89 is sufficient as long as my bike isn't being exposed to some crazy ambient heat, and the bike isn't running on the edge of overheating. But i know some stuff, like mitigating cylinder pressure in the heat by not trying to do repeated WOT runs. Some folks don't know that stuff. So I err on the side of caution by advising to run premium, same as kawasaki.

  Think about it... a tank of fuel might cost 3.00 more. 100 tanks might cost 300.00 more. Eat the pistons, or thin the oil to the point bearings touch the crank, and it's going to be alot more than 300.00.

  I'm really down on the 87 idea because I have not tested it. I don't know where the point is that 87 octane is insufficient. I don't want to find it, and I don't want YOU to find it either. I can hear it now "the flash caused it". Sure. It wasn't the insuffient octane, right? So OK, everyone can do themselves. Just be sure you fully understand the consequences when you make that choice. Kawasaki says a min of 90 octane. You bought the bike knowing that, and won't go wrong with that advise.  Pay your money, take your chances.

  Steve

  Oh, ans FAIS... 89 octane is midgrade, not regular, which is generally 87 octane.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2017, 01:25:00 am by Steve in Sunny Fla »
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Offline Ken

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Re: Valve Check 2011 after Steves flash. For what it's worth
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2017, 01:57:52 am »
WOW.  Did my question cause all this BS? LOL. SO WHAT?  Some you guys got big smarts that's for sure. I have used reg. 87 octane from day one rolling out of the dealership. Being told there that the 87 would not cause any problem. And it has not. After the evo flash still using 87. Still no problems. If I ever run into a problem, I'm confident I will no, why why would I try to say it was the fault of the flash?  It's done nothing but improve the ride. After al this just looks like I'm still using 87
Thanks

Offline Old Man on a Connie

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Re: Valve Check 2011 after Steves flash. For what it's worth
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2017, 02:13:00 am »
WOW.  Did my question cause all this BS? LOL. SO WHAT?  Some you guys got big smarts that's for sure. I have used reg. 87 octane from day one rolling out of the dealership. Being told there that the 87 would not cause any problem. And it has not. After the evo flash still using 87. Still no problems. If I ever run into a problem, I'm confident I will no, why why would I try to say it was the fault of the flash?  It's done nothing but improve the ride. After al this just looks like I'm still using 87
Thanks
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Re: Valve Check 2011 after Steves flash. For what it's worth
« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2017, 03:19:34 am »
Yup -  nobody has ever called me stupid to my fais  :-[

Biting my tongue 👅  :-X


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Offline Bob H

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Re: Valve Check 2011 after Steves flash. For what it's worth
« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2017, 10:35:08 am »
People get irrationally passionate about seemingly insignificant things such as what fuel or oil other guys use in their bikes!  I don't pretend to understand that, but so be it.

What you see published in manufacturer's info such as owners books, shop manuals etc. does not necessarily reflect engineers direction.  Instead it is the result of corporate caution and lawyers direction.  Steve's response is a good example.  He is entirely correct in recommending the octane level he did his development with.  It would be irresponsible to do otherwise. 

Manufacturers must do exactly the same thing, as it is impossible to test and verify every possible variation of what users will do with a product.  That does NOT mean you can't step outside the recommended range, but you do so at your own risk!  If you are comfortable with that risk, by all means go for it.  If you get burned as a result, don't go crying to the one who told you not to try it!
Remember, much of what you see on-line is wrong or misguided, your task is to filter that out!
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