Author Topic: Valve Inspection:Dropping the Engine??  (Read 1246 times)

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Offline jwh20

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Re: Valve Inspection:Dropping the Engine??
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2018, 02:44:34 pm »
Here's a question for the more advanced mechanics among us:  if the engine indeed gets "dropped" from the frame, how involved IS that??

Is it simply a matter of a few bolts and main members??

I'm having trouble visualizing this operation.

Also, if the engine is released from the cradle, does the radiator have to come off and/or get disconnected???
I've had my radiator off before to make room to swap the headers, but I now know that wasn't entirely necessary to accoplish that task.

Thanks again  for the input.

gr

Chapter 8 in the Service Manual describes the process.
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Offline SilverConnieRider

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Re: Valve Inspection:Dropping the Engine??
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2018, 08:50:45 pm »
The only way you can REALLY trust someone is to stand over them while they do it.

I think it's total BS that you can't be in the service dept because of liability issues EVEN if you sign a waver.

Therefore do you ever really know - even with a shim map - that could be made up with false numbers and how would you know?

I understand you not wanting to do it and I would not recommend you do since you are sure you don't want to.
But  if You can't stand over someone then there are very few people that could do the job and be trusted that you don't know.

I haven't done mine yet so I no expert by a long shot - but after I do mine a few times I would let someone watch me work
on their bike if they wanted me to do theirs.  But I also understand that they need to be close to you and not across the country.

Tomorrow I'm going to change a tire on a friends bike and he will be right there when I do, as I will be explaining what I'm doing and why.
Nothing will be hidden like in a service shop.  I even looked up the torque specs on his bike in case he doesn't have or know them.

Offline ghostrider990

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Re: Valve Inspection:Dropping the Engine??
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2018, 01:39:55 pm »
The only way you can REALLY trust someone is to stand over them while they do it.

I think it's total BS that you can't be in the service dept because of liability issues EVEN if you sign a waver.

Therefore do you ever really know - even with a shim map - that could be made up with false numbers and how would you know?

I understand you not wanting to do it and I would not recommend you do since you are sure you don't want to.
But  if You can't stand over someone then there are very few people that could do the job and be trusted that you don't know.

I haven't done mine yet so I no expert by a long shot - but after I do mine a few times I would let someone watch me work
on their bike if they wanted me to do theirs.  But I also understand that they need to be close to you and not across the country.

Tomorrow I'm going to change a tire on a friends bike and he will be right there when I do, as I will be explaining what I'm doing and why.
Nothing will be hidden like in a service shop.  I even looked up the torque specs on his bike in case he doesn't have or know them.

Believe me, I've thought of all of this.
..."I like to keep this handy -- for Close Encounters"...

Offline Ronnie

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Re: Valve Inspection:Dropping the Engine??
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2018, 05:09:33 pm »
Thanks Ron.

I've got his contact info already.

I've stated in other posts, that I'd prefer to do the valve check via a Certified Kawasaki tech to keep my extended warranty valid.
Cost is almost apples to apples considering travel and downtime, but its the TRUST factor that is kind of crap shoot when it comes to choosing a dealership.

Really unfortunate that NOBODY in NC has a relationship with a local dealership / service shop.

thanks for the offer!

N
Ghostrider, I'm not sure where in NC you are, but the dealer here in Florence SC (Generation 3 powersports) are friends of mine and I trust them completely.  Good Christian family run business.  If that's close enough for you, ask for Gary when you call and tell him I sent you.
Ronnie
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Online Deepsea

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Re: Valve Inspection:Dropping the Engine??
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2018, 07:28:26 pm »
I have removed and reinstalled the engine on my 09 C14 as well as removed and replaced the engine in a 2011 C14. Unless you have a very GOOD reason to do this Don't. On paper it's a relatively easy job. In practice it's not that simple. Getting everything re-aligned and torqued properly takes a good bit of patience. The first time I did this it took four tries before I got all the vibration out of the bike. It was a learning experience and I've swapped literally hundreds of M/C engines. A competent mechanic can do this but I don't recommended it for a simple valve adjustment.
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Offline Roger B

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Re: Valve Inspection:Dropping the Engine??
« Reply #30 on: February 14, 2018, 09:11:07 pm »
I have removed and reinstalled the engine on my 09 C14 as well as removed and replaced the engine in a 2011 C14. Unless you have a very GOOD reason to do this Don't. On paper it's a relatively easy job. In practice it's not that simple. Getting everything re-aligned and torqued properly takes a good bit of patience. The first time I did this it took four tries before I got all the vibration out of the bike. It was a learning experience and I've swapped literally hundreds of M/C engines. A competent mechanic can do this but I don't recommended it for a simple valve adjustment.

You mentioned getting the vibration out.   Reminded me of when I did my valve adjustment and must of over torqued the engine mounts and now have more vibration than before.   Just the upper engine mounts only.

Online Deepsea

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Re: Valve Inspection:Dropping the Engine??
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2018, 01:59:04 pm »
When removing the upper mounts you need to support the engine but not lift it. There is a very specific method for re-torquing all the mounts and it must be followed exactly. It's as much Dark Art as Science and requires lots of patience but it is doable. Everything needs to be adjusted and tightened equally and evenly. If you picked up a significant vibration doing the valves try supporting the engine with a jack just to the point of equilibrium then loosen the mounts and retighten/torque following the maintenance manual carefully. If your vibration is only slightly different just redo the upper mounts with the engine supported. Good luck.
  The most expensive tool you can buy is a cheep (uncalibrated) torque wrench. I have all of mine re-caliberated annually. For really critical work I use either a strain gauge or angle indicator.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 02:03:31 pm by Deepsea »
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Offline ghostrider990

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Re: Valve Inspection:Dropping the Engine??
« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2018, 04:22:58 pm »
After alot of deliberation and thought -- I decided that paying the dealership to perform mundane service routines like changing oil and filters was a complete waste of money.
I dont need an air filter, I prefer to use a specific brand of oil and filter that dealerships won't provide at a reasonable cost, I can change diff fluid blindfolded, the plugs can go another 25k EASY, the coolant is good for at least another 1-2 years, and the "inspections" are just plain unnecessary at this point.

With that said, i found a shop that will do JUST the inspection/adjustment for 5 hours of labor @ $90 hr.
I'm going to have them flush the clutch and brake fluids, just because I don't want to.  Also, gonna have them slap a new set of brake pads on, again just because they can do it faster than me.

Oh, and they also confirmed: the motor doesn't need to get dropped.
We knew that, but it was the RIGHT answer.

Now, for the TRUST factor:  I got the service manager to agree to allow me in the shop while the vc was off the motor, and to ensure that the work was being done, and all clearances being inspected.
The fact that they'll even LET me in, makes me trust them THAT much more.  This will include a valve clearance map, and they INSISTED on replacing the V/C, whereas the other shop didn't even quote it.  Boom!

The icing on the cake, is that they don't even charge for shims, as they have a "collection" of them that they pool from.
That answers the question of how often do they actually swap shims in this shop.

Overall -- I'm 99% they just earned my business.
Now lets just hope this goes as well as I hope it does.

Thanks to all that chimed-in, and I'll update everyone on my experience.
maybe we SE boys can finally have a go-to shop for warranty work and factory authorized service.
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Offline Rock

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Re: Valve Inspection:Dropping the Engine??
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2018, 07:37:14 pm »
Any and all:

If you're wanting your valve job done and in the SE, like Ron and Strom said. I've used Tony in the Atlanta area since 2006 for my C10 and just a couple months ago for my 25K valve job on my C14. I don't ride like a lot of C14 riders, but do like to go fast once in a while. My valves on my 2013 were good with only two intakes a bit tight according to Tony. He gave me a map.

He did fluids, steering head, throttle adjust and more and charged $1168.00.  I was glad to pay. I did valves on my C10 but now that I'm retired and have a ton of money I'll let him do the C14!  ;)

You can't go wrong with using Tony. Ask a few of us in the Atlanta area. His home based shop is cleaner than any dealer I've been to since I started riding in 1981.
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Offline David

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Re: Valve Inspection:Dropping the Engine??
« Reply #34 on: February 15, 2018, 07:46:14 pm »
Keep us posted I'm in NC and would like to get my done before the spring rush starts