Concours Owners Group (COG) Forum

Concours 14 Discussion (C14 / ZG1400 / 1400GTR) => Concours 14 / ZG1400 General Chat and Tech => Topic started by: Kreton'sLC on September 14, 2019, 12:52:42 am

Title: Weak battery or something else?
Post by: Kreton'sLC on September 14, 2019, 12:52:42 am
Lately I've seen several signs suggesting it may be time for a new battery.

1)  The "low battery" light has come on a few times while starting, but goes off after a few seconds of idling.
2)  Upon a cold startup, my windshield takes maybe 30 seconds to rise all the way to the preset 4 position.  It's always risen in stutter steps ever since I installed LED headlights last spring, but used to only take about 10 seconds.
3)  My KTRC light frequently stays on after startup, yet there's no KTRC message or symbol displayed on the dash.  Could it just be insufficient juice is preventing KTRC from coming on?
4)  Often on cold starts the bike idles very low for a few seconds before it settles into a normal idle. 

However, other things suggest the battery may be fine.  The bike still starts quickly and there's not that slow struggling cranking associated with a weak battery.  Prior to starting, the dash showed the battery at 12.2V, and when running it's around 14.5-6.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Weak battery or something else?
Post by: HiSport on September 14, 2019, 06:12:18 pm
Suggestions (before you get stuck somewhere - these bikes are impossible to push):

- Remove your battery; clean (to bright) the terminals and connectors

- Clean the ground connections adjacent to battery box

- Check battery voltage with a DVOM. Less than 12.25 VDC means its about gone (for a fully charged and stabilized lead acid battery)

Also, if the battery is more than four years old, or has been run to flat and left in that state for more than a month, I would replace it. Be careful with aftermarket batteries; some don't fit the tight battery box. A Yuasa battery is worth the $. Don't charge these batteries at more than about 2A. A battery tender (generally < 1.5A) works v well, and will pay for itself in 6 months. Buy it and the battery together, and connect (included) SAE charging plug harness at the same time (later model C14's may have come standard with these). Leave the B' Tender plugged in when not riding. I use battery terminal spray on all battery area connections (use the little red squirt tube)

Hope this helps...
Title: Re: Weak battery or something else?
Post by: connie_rider on September 14, 2019, 08:07:56 pm
I agree clean the cables and terminals, then follow the ground cable to where is attached to the frame and check/clean it.
{If it's possible} Check the positive cable at the starter relay too.

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: Weak battery or something else?
Post by: ginzburg on September 14, 2019, 08:39:43 pm
The owners manual calls for charging a battery under 12.6v so you might as well try charging it up.
Title: Re: Weak battery or something else?
Post by: Kreton'sLC on September 14, 2019, 09:13:27 pm
Thanks all.  Will try try ginzburg's suggestion of charging it first and if that doesn't help I'll take it to O'Reilly's and have the voltage tested.  I've cleaned the battery and ground connections recently so should be able to rule them out.

What I don't get though is since I ride nearly every day, if the battery is ok shouldn't that negate the need for a charger?
Title: Re: Weak battery or something else?
Post by: ddtmoto on September 14, 2019, 10:57:40 pm
It is amazing how much longer a motorcycle battery will last with the use of a BAttery Tender. ..
Title: Re: Weak battery or something else?
Post by: connie_rider on September 14, 2019, 11:07:00 pm
Thanks all.  Will try try ginzburg's suggestion of charging it first and if that doesn't help I'll take it to O'Reilly's and have the voltage tested.  I've cleaned the battery and ground connections recently so should be able to rule them out.

What I don't get though is "since I ride nearly every day", if the battery is ok shouldn't that negate the need for a charger?

This is more indication of poor connections or battery that is beginning to get weak.
Title: Re: Weak battery or something else?
Post by: Phil on September 15, 2019, 04:58:57 pm
It is amazing how much longer a motorcycle battery will last with the use of a BAttery Tender. ..

Yeah, I finally replaced the battery in my 2009, bought new in 2010, late last Summer. It still was working well, but I noticed the voltage had just begin to drop if it wasn't on the Battery Tender. Still started the bike though. It had a good run.
Title: Re: Weak battery or something else?
Post by: Nickrides on September 15, 2019, 05:18:00 pm
I'm thinking of a new battery for my 2014 C-14
What is the Number of the Yuasa battery mentioned on this thread previously?
TIA
Title: Re: Weak battery or something else?
Post by: Kreton'sLC on September 15, 2019, 08:03:34 pm
Thanks all.  Will try try ginzburg's suggestion of charging it first and if that doesn't help I'll take it to O'Reilly's and have the voltage tested.  I've cleaned the battery and ground connections recently so should be able to rule them out.

What I don't get though is "since I ride nearly every day", if the battery is ok shouldn't that negate the need for a charger?

This is more indication of poor connections or battery that is beginning to get weak.

I think the battery is getting weak.  I hooked up the charger yesterday and even after a longish ride it still showed yellow (charging) for a while before going to green.  After charging, the KTRC light blinked after starting like it should.  Today while running some errands the KTRC worked for the first two starts, but after the 3rd start the light stayed on again.   Just for the heck of it, I tried starting the bike with a little throttle, hoping it would fire at a little higher RPM and generate more juice and enable the KTRC.  But it wouldn't fire with that extra throttle and after just a few seconds of cranking the low battery warning came on.  Sure enough, when I got back home and hooked up the charger it showed yellow. 

After I bought the bike in January I was able to piece together its service history pretty well.  I don't think the PO ever replaced the battery, so after 8 Texas summers and nearly 32k miles it's probably time.
Title: Re: Weak battery or something else?
Post by: connie_rider on September 16, 2019, 03:30:28 pm
8 Summers. Wow...
Yep, time for a new one.

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: Weak battery or something else?
Post by: ghostrider990 on September 20, 2019, 09:40:35 am
Suggestions (before you get stuck somewhere - these bikes are impossible to push):

- Remove your battery; clean (to bright) the terminals and connectors

- Clean the ground connections adjacent to battery box

- Check battery voltage with a DVOM. Less than 12.25 VDC means its about gone (for a fully charged and stabilized lead acid battery)

Also, if the battery is more than four years old, or has been run to flat and left in that state for more than a month, I would replace it. Be careful with aftermarket batteries; some don't fit the tight battery box. A Yuasa battery is worth the $. Don't charge these batteries at more than about 2A. A battery tender (generally < 1.5A) works v well, and will pay for itself in 6 months. Buy it and the battery together, and connect (included) SAE charging plug harness at the same time (later model C14's may have come standard with these). Leave the B' Tender plugged in when not riding. I use battery terminal spray on all battery area connections (use the little red squirt tube)

Hope this helps...

This is all great advice.
A weak battery, or one with a bad cell(s) can cause all kinds of oddities within the electrical system.
No need to get pedantic about this topic, all above comments are sage advice.
For less than $100, just replace it.  But DO check and clean all connections while you do so.
I've told the story of my 10 year old battery, I just replaced last year on my aprilia.  Left on an Optimate battery tender at all times when not being ridden....and I merely replaced it out of pure protective measures.

Sticking with tried and true Yuasa.  Nothing more tested and trusted out there.

Here's what I'm buying next: 
I can't remember on which thread this actual battery was verified to fit in a C14, but I saved it, and will be buying this EXACT unit next spring, as it has been proven to fit and have more CCA than the stock unit.

https://www.amazon.com/Yuasa-YUAM716GHL-lead_acid_battery/dp/B00JAXXDCK/ref=sr_1_1?crid=10LTY77NY8PNP&keywords=yuasa+gyz16hl&qid=1568975717&s=gateway&sprefix=yuasa+gyz%2Caps%2C161&sr=8-1 (https://www.amazon.com/Yuasa-YUAM716GHL-lead_acid_battery/dp/B00JAXXDCK/ref=sr_1_1?crid=10LTY77NY8PNP&keywords=yuasa+gyz16hl&qid=1568975717&s=gateway&sprefix=yuasa+gyz%2Caps%2C161&sr=8-1)


https://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-battery/ (https://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-battery/)
Title: Re: Weak battery or something else?
Post by: JerBear on September 20, 2019, 11:20:29 am
FWIW, if that picture is correct the +pos. and -neg. terminals are opposite of the originals..  May still fit but you'll need to ensure you don't mix up the polarity.  Easy enough when they are the same!
 
Title: Re: Weak battery or something else?
Post by: connie_rider on September 20, 2019, 12:59:18 pm
Good catch JerBear!!
I was involved in some research on that battery.
Thought I needed a battery at the time...

It does fit with the chance that the hold down has to be modded a bit.
The battery I saw was in the correct polarity.
I'll try to dig up the info.

Found the discussion; http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-14-zg1400-general-chat-and-tech/16ah-series-battery-will-it-fit-a-c-14/msg666100/#msg666100 (http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-14-zg1400-general-chat-and-tech/16ah-series-battery-will-it-fit-a-c-14/msg666100/#msg666100)

NOTE: See replies about modifying the battery hold down.
           There was quite a bit of discussion about that. Apparently the earlier model C-14's had a different battery hold down.
           I think the final decision was minor modifications to the Battery Hold down will work on the later model C-14's.

For what it's worth; I also plan to go to this battery next.

Ride safe, Ted

Title: Re: Weak battery or something else?
Post by: Kreton'sLC on September 20, 2019, 02:09:41 pm
So using the charger I was able to determine it would take a charge but not hold it.  Taking it to Batteries + Bulbs for testing confirmed it needed replacing, since I needed something quick I bought one of their Duracells.  The battery hold fit just a tag snug, but everything went back into the compartment just fine.  All is well and my KTRC is working again which since we got our first rain in weeks yesterday was nice to have.
Title: Re: Weak battery or something else?
Post by: ghostrider990 on September 21, 2019, 10:40:13 am
FWIW, if that picture is correct the +pos. and -neg. terminals are opposite of the originals..  May still fit but you'll need to ensure you don't mix up the polarity.  Easy enough when they are the same!

Good catch Jer.

Could it be just the picture is paralaxed backwards??

I'd SWEAR this was proven to be a proper plug-n-play fit for the later C-14's.
Hmmmmm......
Now I'm going to have to double check and FIND that thread.
I was certain this was a lock for me!!

gr
Title: Re: Weak battery or something else?
Post by: connie_rider on September 21, 2019, 12:18:08 pm
Ghostrider, the image you posted was GYZ16HL.
The battery with the correct polarity is GYZ16H.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Yuasa-High-Performance-Factory-Activated-Battery-GYZ16H-YUAM716GH/352445771786?epid=209955446&hash=item520f67b00a:g:MAYAAOSwZSpdEl4q (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Yuasa-High-Performance-Factory-Activated-Battery-GYZ16H-YUAM716GH/352445771786?epid=209955446&hash=item520f67b00a:g:MAYAAOSwZSpdEl4q)

I posted "the tread" (I think your talking about) on Reply #13.

Ride safe, Ted

Title: Re: Weak battery or something else?
Post by: ghostrider990 on September 27, 2019, 12:07:01 pm
Ghostrider, the image you posted was GYZ16HL.
The battery with the correct polarity is GYZ16H.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Yuasa-High-Performance-Factory-Activated-Battery-GYZ16H-YUAM716GH/352445771786?epid=209955446&hash=item520f67b00a:g:MAYAAOSwZSpdEl4q (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Yuasa-High-Performance-Factory-Activated-Battery-GYZ16H-YUAM716GH/352445771786?epid=209955446&hash=item520f67b00a:g:MAYAAOSwZSpdEl4q)

I posted "the tread" (I think your talking about) on Reply #13.

Ride safe, Ted

Thanks Ted!  Good catch.  I KNEW I wasn't crazy....just a little misguided, as usual!
.....story of my life!.....  ::)

gr
Title: Re: Weak battery or something else?
Post by: SteveJ. on September 27, 2019, 02:39:44 pm
I don't think this is an apples/oranges issue, but the fuel gauge on my itty bitty six fiddy Versys went wonky on me shortly before a crapped out/no start battery. I had just filled the gas tank and the fuel gauge showed one bar down, intermittently. The volt meter was showing green for charging. Also, the engine would not fire right away when cranking, again intermittently, then fired up but weakly. It took a bit to gain power.

Had to replace battery on the road with a Wally world AGM after verifying what was going on with a volt meter. All good now.

The electrics can do some weird things when there are charging/connection/battery issues.



Title: Re: Weak battery or something else?
Post by: cuda on October 13, 2019, 11:14:51 am
About the only real complaint with this bike is the battery is undersized, 

I have left the parking lights on for short period of time and It's too weak to start,

Can you give me a push ::)
Title: Re: Weak battery or something else?
Post by: connie_rider on October 15, 2019, 08:34:28 pm
My battery always seems weak when the bike sets, and I keep putting off getting a new battery as it's fine after some time on the Battery Tender.
But, I KNOW what's going to happen one of these days..
So, I just ordered a GYZ16H.

Has anyone ever actually put one of these in their C-14?

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: Weak battery or something else?
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on October 15, 2019, 09:59:14 pm
My battery always seems weak when the bike sets, and I keep putting off getting a new battery as it's fine after some time on the Battery Tender.
But, I KNOW what's going to happen one of these days..
So, I just ordered a GYZ16H.

Has anyone ever actually put one of these in their C-14?

Ride safe, Ted

how much?

these are on sale now, pretty potent...

https://www.batterymart.com/p-bm-mbyz16h-motobatt-agm-battery.html (https://www.batterymart.com/p-bm-mbyz16h-motobatt-agm-battery.html)

not sure if it will allow a second Gen battery cover, but the '08-'09 covers are cheap.. instead of hacking up thee one on the bike

this is the shorter one, 14ah

https://www.batterymart.com/p-mbtx12u-motobatt-agm-battery.html (https://www.batterymart.com/p-mbtx12u-motobatt-agm-battery.html)

Title: Re: Weak battery or something else?
Post by: connie_rider on October 16, 2019, 02:55:07 am
Thanx MOB. I paid $84.87.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Yuasa-High-Performance-Factory-Activated-Battery-GYZ16H-YUAM716GH/352445771786?epid=209955446&hash=item520f67b00a:g:MAYAAOSwZSpdEl4q (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Yuasa-High-Performance-Factory-Activated-Battery-GYZ16H-YUAM716GH/352445771786?epid=209955446&hash=item520f67b00a:g:MAYAAOSwZSpdEl4q)

On the battery cover, I want to try to keep the original design and think I can modify this one pretty easily.
If not, I'll look into your suggestion.
After your post I looked at OEM Battery covers on Ebay and found I can get {this model or the earlier} pretty quickly if needed.

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: Weak battery or something else?
Post by: Boomer on October 16, 2019, 07:22:25 am
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Motobatt-Battery-For-Kawasaki-Concours-14-ABS-1400cc-2014/143337461062?epid=1473904711&hash=item215f941546:g:60AAAOSw7PFdOFqP (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Motobatt-Battery-For-Kawasaki-Concours-14-ABS-1400cc-2014/143337461062?epid=1473904711&hash=item215f941546:g:60AAAOSw7PFdOFqP)

Has 4 terminals so you can use the 2nd pair for your accessories/fuse-box connection.
I've had one in my 2007 C14 for 4 years now and a similar one in my C10 for 3 years.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Motobatt-Battery-For-Kawasaki-ZG1000A-Concours-1000-1986-2006/174063979379?epid=2009343081&hash=item2887058b73:g:-zYAAOSwijRdo1Tl (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Motobatt-Battery-For-Kawasaki-ZG1000A-Concours-1000-1986-2006/174063979379?epid=2009343081&hash=item2887058b73:g:-zYAAOSwijRdo1Tl)
Both are kept on a tender when not being ridden.

I've not bought a Yuasa since they refused to honour the warranty on a 9 month old battery with a busted weld claiming it was due to excessive vibration,...... on a touring motorcycle,..... really?!?  :38:
Title: Re: Weak battery or something else?
Post by: connie_rider on October 16, 2019, 02:43:58 pm
Thanx Boomer. I understand why you didn't go back to Yuasa.
I've already ordered the Yuasa, so it's too late for me to go another way.

Below is a discussion I started some time ago. There we compared battery; dimensions/CCA/Ah/Cost.
http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-14-zg1400-general-chat-and-tech/16ah-series-battery-will-it-fit-a-c-14/25/#lastPost (http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-14-zg1400-general-chat-and-tech/16ah-series-battery-will-it-fit-a-c-14/25/#lastPost)
After the discusison, I thought the GYZ16H was my best option as it has more Ah and CCA.
NOTE: I feel that the OEM battery in our bikes doesn't have enough reserve power. So, I went for more reserve power this time.

Looking at MOB and your posts, it appears that, we were not aware of "all" of the batteries offered by Motobatt at the time of our discussion.
Here is how they compare;
                                   the OEM Yuasa YTX14-BS has 12 Ah & 200 CCA
            the Motobatt {equivalent} is a  MBTX12U with 14 Ah & 200 CCA
                                         You chose a MBYZ9U with 10.5 Ah & 160 CCA
                                   MOB chose a MBYZ16HD with 16.5 Ah & 240 CCA
                                    I chose a Yuasa GYZ16H with 16 Ah & 240 CCA
                  DDTMOTO chose a Yuasa YTX14H-BS with 12.6 Ah & 240 CCA {added after; Later post}

I think that all will fit in the C-14 with a few adjustment's.
Geez, my head hurts after all that number gathering!!! :-[

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: Weak battery or something else?
Post by: ddtmoto on October 16, 2019, 03:09:48 pm
My choice was Yuasa ytx14h-bs, 240cca. $68...Same size as oem 14bs with 200cca.