Concours Owners Group (COG) Forum

Concours 14 Discussion (C14 / ZG1400 / 1400GTR) => Concours 14 / ZG1400 General Chat and Tech => Topic started by: Steve in Sunny Fla on March 31, 2015, 02:16:37 pm

Title: weirdities
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on March 31, 2015, 02:16:37 pm
one weirdity... i've owned a c-14 for over a year, yet took my first bansai run one one yesterday - on the 2012  ::)

  Other weirdities...

  1) Throttle -  it has somewhat of what  I call a "digital throttle" it's either on or off. makes it a bit jerky transitioning from closed to opening.

  2) brakes - Hard to describe, but sometimes it feels like it grabs, then releases, the really grabs. Almost like the abs is activating, but not in the stuttery fashion ABS functions.  don't get me wrong it stops  RIGHT NOW.  The brakes are fantastic, but the feedback is odd.

 3) suspension - harsh. I have it set the same as the 09, which is compliant. The 12's suspension, particularly in the rear, picks up every little rock and imperfection in the road.

   Two of us rode the bike, and both had these same comments. These are things I'll need to either address or get used to.

  Do you find these as common quirks of the 10- up models?  TIA, Steve
Title: Re: weirdities
Post by: turbo-max on March 31, 2015, 02:18:26 pm
Ghosts in the Machine!!!  :-\
Title: Re: weirdities
Post by: Joe on March 31, 2015, 03:12:53 pm
I'm also on a '12. 
1) My throttle feels very smooth and don't feel any of the jerky response that some report. 
2) The brakes do feel strange when applying them in modulation.  I feel different pressures on the foot when also using the front.  Then if I add more rear brake, the lever also has some change in feel.  I can only blame this on the linked system that so many hate.  I have gotten used to it, and don't think about it anymore. 
3) My rear suspension feels fine for me.  It is maxed out, and stuck there.  Maybe a bit much for solo riding, but if the bags are full, or my daughter is riding with it feels just right.  It sees to me that everyone has a different expectation of the bike, and some (like me) are happy with the stock configuration, and others want to change everything about them.

Title: Re: weirdities
Post by: seagiant1 on March 31, 2015, 03:20:17 pm
Hi,
       Steve mine is a 2012 model.

I just bled my brakes and they are actually better than when I bought the bike. :great:

I had to tweek (tighten) the throttle adjust nuts to get some slack out,works better now!

The suspension is VERY harsh and I am now looking into the Traxxion/Penske cure! ;D
Title: Re: weirdities
Post by: Bigfoot_16 on March 31, 2015, 05:23:51 pm
Steve, have you reset the TPS on that bike. That did wonders for my old 2013 bike.
Title: Re: weirdities
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on March 31, 2015, 06:48:33 pm
Steve, have you reset the TPS on that bike. That did wonders for my old 2013 bike.

 no, not yet. I'll try it but as I recall there's nothing in the service manual about doing that, it's a bmw trick that some claim works on the 14? I did try it on the 09 and there was no change.  Steve
Title: Re: weirdities
Post by: Rembrant on March 31, 2015, 08:03:33 pm

2) brakes - Hard to describe, but sometimes it feels like it grabs, then releases, the really grabs. Almost like the abs is activating, but not in the stuttery fashion ABS functions.  don't get me wrong it stops  RIGHT NOW.  The brakes are fantastic, but the feedback is odd.


That sounds like the linked braking action to me. They're weird imho.

Rem
Title: Re: weirdities
Post by: Bob on March 31, 2015, 10:46:59 pm
Steve;
Check the driveline for free play. My 08 has the same issue.
Put the bike on the centerstand, trans in first, then check the free play by rotating the rear tire.
I have about two inches on the tire.

Bob Skinner
Title: Re: weirdities
Post by: gpd323 on April 01, 2015, 12:38:30 am

2) brakes - Hard to describe, but sometimes it feels like it grabs, then releases, the really grabs. Almost like the abs is activating, but not in the stuttery fashion ABS functions.  don't get me wrong it stops  RIGHT NOW.  The brakes are fantastic, but the feedback is odd.


That sounds like the linked braking action to me. They're weird imho.

Rem

I agree, I get the same sensation. Thing is, if you really get on the brakes this grabby feeling is not felt. I find the larger 330mm rotors has a slight muting affect on the linked brakes.
Title: Re: weirdities
Post by: tjhess74 on April 01, 2015, 01:51:43 am
steve, for what it's worth, my 07 vfr800 has linked brakes and it occasionally does that weird chatter bite that feels like abs.  mine does not have abs, so i can rule that out!
Title: Re: weirdities
Post by: Fais on April 01, 2015, 01:56:47 am
See if the light-throttle-jerkiness smooths out with ECO mode on.

That's the only reason I use ECO mode. It seems to be something that only works under partial throttle. There is no ECO mode when you give it a twist.

Guhl doesn't change the ECO mode in a reflash. I like that.

I trust the brakes. Maybe that's enough to make up for the feel. Kawi knows what we need to slow this monster and some of us aren't so light either ;D I keep the linked turned up and have accepted it. In the end they perform really well and hold up really well, and EBC rotors will outlast the 40-50k some get out of the stock rotors. Good things.
Title: Re: weirdities
Post by: instructor on April 01, 2015, 05:15:33 am
As for the brakes really coming on STRONG with little or no smooth approach, whatever mode the ABS is set on that shows the two black brake symbols gives that sort of braking effort on my '12 C14. Manual suggests that mode for riding two up or high speed Interstate cruising. Would not want nor use that mode very often here in very twisty steep mountain roads.  Compared to previous bikes brake system, this one is excellent for me. 
Title: Re: weirdities
Post by: C. Moore on April 01, 2015, 10:08:09 am
I have a '10 non abs (about one year now) so no comment on the brake issue. I do feel the jerky throttle in first gear. It's not smooth enough for me especially when I'm trying to modulate the throttle going through a slow corner. No problem as I accelerate on out of first into the higher gears. I've been wondering if the Guhl reflash would cure the problem. The suspension for me was harsh at first but I've been playing with the settings and I'm slowly getting it where I want it to be.
Title: Re: weirdities
Post by: The Pope on April 01, 2015, 10:22:05 am
1-Do a TPS reset like Bigfoot suggested. It's done by switching on the bike, but not starting the engine. Then rotating the throttle to full on and back to full off twice. Then switch off the bike. After that's done, you can switch the bike back on, start the engine and go for a ride to see if it helped.

2- That's just the linked brakes. You just have to learn to live with it, but I do have a theory on how to un-link them and retain the ABS in both front and rear.  ;D

3- Check to see what the setting of the small screw at the bottom of the rear shock is. Is it 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 .... turn out from fully seated? I think that I have mine at 1 & 1/4 turns out from fully seated. Anyway, it's worth a try.  :great:
Title: Re: weirdities
Post by: gPink on April 01, 2015, 10:59:37 am
I have a '10 non abs (about one year now) so no comment on the brake issue. I do feel the jerky throttle in first gear. It's not smooth enough for me especially when I'm trying to modulate the throttle going through a slow corner. No problem as I accelerate on out of first into the higher gears. I've been wondering if the Guhl reflash would cure the problem. The suspension for me was harsh at first but I've been playing with the settings and I'm slowly getting it where I want it to be.


After adjusting the throttle cables to the bare minimum of free play and adding an aftermarket throttle tube... http://www.g2ergo.com/ (http://www.g2ergo.com/) ....I've eliminated this problem for me. YMMV
Title: Re: weirdities
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on April 01, 2015, 12:31:35 pm

3- Check to see what the setting of the small screw at the bottom of the rear shock is. Is it 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 .... turn out from fully seated? I think that I have mine at 1 & 1/4 turns out from fully seated. Anyway, it's worth a try.  :great:

  I had set the rebound adjustment (the screw) to 1 turn out from fully seated. same as the 09. Very different results.

  i know the shocks are a different PN. does anyone know if the early shocks are actually more compliant? I have an almost new 09 shock left over from when I ran that setup on my c-10. That shock had a lot of travel and liked the rebound set just 1/2 turn out, but that was on the c-10 and the shock rocker was longer so it applied more leverage to the shock.  Steve
Title: Re: weirdities
Post by: Bigfoot_16 on April 01, 2015, 02:31:16 pm
I'll tell you one thing, the 2015 rear spring is much stiffer than previous model years. I haven't adjusted the damping yet, but have adjusted the preload. I need to experiment more with it to get that more compliant ride.
Title: Re: weirdities
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on April 01, 2015, 03:21:37 pm
preload doesn't change compliance, it just sets sag. Steve
Title: Re: weirdities
Post by: Bigfoot_16 on April 01, 2015, 05:48:06 pm
Yes sir. I meant I need to experiment more with both settings to find the settings I'm happiest with.
Title: Re: weirdities
Post by: JimH_PA on April 01, 2015, 07:15:35 pm


2- That's just the linked brakes. You just have to learn to live with it, but I do have a theory on how to un-link them and retain the ABS in both front and rear.  ;D


Would love to hear that!  Always wondered if the effect would be less if both front brakes were hooked up instead of just the front right one......
Title: Re: weirdities
Post by: Bruiser on April 01, 2015, 08:35:38 pm
I also have a 12, now with 16000 miles on it. First, the drive by wire does take a little getting used to, but it aint nuthin compared to the Triumph Tiger...now that is so "jerky", I don't think I could ever get used to it.  Second, when I first bought the C14 new, by habit, I used the front and rear brake levers to stop, but found with this bike, that gives the rider the feeling it has a warped rotor as you are slowing down, and I felt I was about to go over the handlebars. To correct this, I never use both front and rear brake levers at the same time...almost always just the front.  And when setting the interlocking system, when looking at the dash panel, make sure the two circles do not have the "parentheses" on the sides.  That increases the stopping power of the interlocking system, to the point I felt uncomfortable.
Title: Re: weirdities
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on April 01, 2015, 08:37:38 pm
I'll tell you one thing, the 2015 rear spring is much stiffer than previous model years. I haven't adjusted the damping yet, but have adjusted the preload. I need to experiment more with it to get that more compliant ride.

I am sure the springs and characteristics are worlds of difference from the '08, but keep in mind you have a NEW shock, and seal stiction plays a very real perceived effect on the reaction of the suspension when NEW, I can remember this from when I got my 08, after 5000 miles things change, and I made changes in the settings at that time, and again around 20k..
Title: Re: weirdities
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on April 01, 2015, 09:27:47 pm
BruceS, the c-14 doesn't have drive by wire, it has regular old throttle cables. Steve
Title: Re: weirdities
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on April 01, 2015, 10:06:34 pm
BruceS, the c-14 doesn't have drive by wire, it has regular old throttle cables. Steve

whats that cable made of? oh, I was just kidding... :-[ ::) :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
Title: Re: weirdities
Post by: Bigfoot_16 on April 02, 2015, 12:14:18 am
I'll tell you one thing, the 2015 rear spring is much stiffer than previous model years. I haven't adjusted the damping yet, but have adjusted the preload. I need to experiment more with it to get that more compliant ride.

I am sure the springs and characteristics are worlds of difference from the '08, but keep in mind you have a NEW shock, and seal stiction plays a very real perceived effect on the reaction of the suspension when NEW, I can remember this from when I got my 08, after 5000 miles things change, and I made changes in the settings at that time, and again around 20k..

Great point, Richard.
Title: Re: weirdities
Post by: mattchewn on April 02, 2015, 12:59:10 am
1-Do a TPS reset like Bigfoot suggested. It's done by switching on the bike, but not starting the engine. Then rotating the throttle to full on and back to full off twice. Then switch off the bike. After that's done, you can switch the bike back on, start the engine and go for a ride to see if it helped.

2- That's just the linked brakes. You just have to learn to live with it, but I do have a theory on how to un-link them and retain the ABS in both front and rear.  ;D

3- Check to see what the setting of the small screw at the bottom of the rear shock is. Is it 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 .... turn out from fully seated? I think that I have mine at 1 & 1/4 turns out from fully seated. Anyway, it's worth a try.  :great:
I turned mine all the way out to the "Penske 8983" setting. WOW! what a difference!
Matt
Title: Re: weirdities
Post by: mehush on April 02, 2015, 03:26:26 pm
I find the throttle to be very jerky as well on my 2011. I have removed all the slack from the cables and done the TPS reset trick. It is still hard to make small throttle inputs.

This is my first bike with ABS or linked brakes. At first I did not like it, but after 33K miles I have grown used to it and really appreciate how strong they are.

I actually like the fact that the suspension is fairly firm. If I ever rode one with upgraded suspension I am sure I would be spoiled. As long as the bike the does not pogo in turns I am fine....and mine does not. I did turn up the rear preload and adjusted damping to 1/2 turn out and am happy with those settings. With fresh tires this thing handles very well. With worn out tires it handles like poo. Never been on a bike that was so sensitive to the state of the tires.
Title: Re: weirdities
Post by: seagiant1 on April 02, 2015, 03:28:24 pm

I turned mine all the way out to the "Penske 8983" setting. WOW! what a difference!
Matt

Hi,
        Hey...uh....That's a little...uh....never mind! ;D   >:(
Title: Re: weirdities
Post by: C. Moore on April 03, 2015, 09:31:20 am
To The Pope, that TPS reset made a difference with that first gear on/off jerkiness. Thanks for the tip.
Title: Re: weirdities
Post by: Bruiser on April 07, 2015, 11:59:56 pm
BruceS, the c-14 doesn't have drive by wire, it has regular old throttle cables. Steve

Yep Steve you are right...I was referring to the Triumph, but my wording didn't come out right. Thanks for the heads up.