Author Topic: 09 C-14 FUEL CAP NOT VENTING  (Read 519 times)

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Offline Alan_Yucius_FL

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09 C-14 FUEL CAP NOT VENTING
« on: February 12, 2020, 06:27:14 pm »
  What goes bad in the fuel cap that DOES NOT ALLOW PRESSURE in the fuel tank from not venting? I have blown out the cap venting system w/air hose and the lines are clear of blockage. What part is not functioning inside the cap, bad O-ring, bad diaphragm? I can replace a O-ring but not any other parts in the cap.   Here is the cap disassembled that I found on the forum.  I have not removed my cap yet.  Does anyone have the answer??  Thanks  Alan in S. Fl
« Last Edit: February 12, 2020, 06:54:37 pm by Alan_Yucius_FL »

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: 09 C-14 FUEL CAP NOT VENTING
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2020, 03:21:43 pm »
it's kind of hard to tell in the pic, but it looks like the same setup the c-10 uses. There's 2 little rubber poppet valves... they look like they're still in the body of the cap in the pic. The valves fail to function. Generally, disassembling / cleaning / spraying the guts and valves with some silicone, and making sure they aren't stuck will fix the problem. Steve
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Offline Alan_Yucius_FL

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Re: 09 C-14 FUEL CAP NOT VENTING
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2020, 05:05:05 pm »
 Thanks Steve for the info. I'm guessing that the two black pieces of something (looks like rubber in the picture) left in the casting of the body is what you are referring to.   Can they be extracted and replaced back in the body?  I was leaning toward the O-ring that goes with the plunger or the diaphragm was the problem since they all go into a plactic body and are the only movable parts in the cap that may be related to Pressure or Vacuum release.   More to this cap than you would have ever imagined.     Thanks   Alan in S. Fl

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: 09 C-14 FUEL CAP NOT VENTING
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2020, 06:19:46 pm »
yes, the 2 black pieces. in the c-10 cap, you'll usually damage the valve trying to remove it. That said, I did remove one of mine, and know folks who have removed both. Don't think I'm endorsing that. I'd suggest you do a dissasemblt / cleaning / lube. see if that helps before you go further. Good luck. Steve
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Offline Alan_Yucius_FL

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Re: 09 C-14 FUEL CAP NOT VENTING
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2020, 06:52:11 pm »
Took it apart and cleaned it.  Now to try it out after I fill my tank and ride it till I reach 150 miles and see if the motor starves  for fuel when trying to reaching high RPM (7,000+) because of high pressure build up from not venting.  Thanks Again.

  Still can't understand how to much pressure in the tank can make it starve for fuel.

Offline JPD

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Re: 09 C-14 FUEL CAP NOT VENTING
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2020, 06:56:54 pm »
The path of air in the cap is different depending on if it is letting air into the tank. Due to running the bike or if the gas heats up and expands and needs to vent out. The 2 valve are there to make sure the airflow is the correct path.(one way check valves) On the C-10 the inlet is at about the 5 o-clock position on the cap  and looks like a small nipple sticking down outside the cap seal area. I had that get plugged and lead to fuel starvation at high speed. With the cap disassembled you should be able to trace the path. My plug was a bubble of paint that was lifted on to the inlet nipple not any air in the cap.

The fuel starvation is due to low pressure in the tank when no air can get into the tank.

Offline Alan_Yucius_FL

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Re: 09 C-14 FUEL CAP NOT VENTING
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2020, 07:18:46 pm »
 Jeff, My problem was that PRESSURE was building UP (could hear PRESSURE RELEASE when I opened the cap) not venting out.  If I opened my cap after it started to starve and ran the bike w/it open, I could run it down till empty, reaching red line with no problem.  Use to be able to hear the WHINE when parked before I started to have this situation.   Pressure was not releasing.   Will l report back after my run this weekends ride.   To much traffic during the week here is S.Fl. w/snowbird season in full swing to go out and deal w/all the cages.             Thanks for the info.

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: 09 C-14 FUEL CAP NOT VENTING
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2020, 08:32:16 pm »
this is going to be interesting Alan. I have experienced a cap not venting and causing fuel starvation because of a vacuum in the tank as the fuel went down on a long ride, but I wouldn't expect pressure to cause the same issues.  Please report back on this. Steve
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Offline Alan_Yucius_FL

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Re: 09 C-14 FUEL CAP NOT VENTING
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2020, 09:24:37 pm »
 Steve. When this started happening (several months ago) I believe my key started to feel a little tight opening, even when I would push down on the front of the cap cover while turning the key.  When I got home I FLOODED the cap in thru the key slot and underneath the bottom around the sides all over w/WD-40.  I know that graphite is used for key tumblers but I didn't have any.   I think this is when the venting problem started happening.  I thought it was bad gas w/water in it and after several loads of gas and gasoline additive to remove water nothing helped.    But it always would run perfect after filling it  (ya, I released the pressure build up when I opened the cap) but always starved for fuel after reaching a 1/4 of a tank or less and trying to reach high RPMs (7,000+).    After seeing the photos of the dissembled cap, I thought that the WD-40 had blocked the channels in the labrynth and labrynth seal. I blew it out the cap w/compressed air and saw the WD-40 coming out all over thinking I could clean it out w/air but that didn't happen, it still starved for fuel after a full tank ran down to less that a quarter of a tank.     Still had the same issue.    Now that I have taken it apart cleaned it completely of any WD-40 that was in there  (I did see some oil base in it) and put it back together I have to go test it.
  Will post update on Monday after my ride this weekend.

                                                                                      Thanks for your input.   Alan
           

Offline HeavyRotation

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Re: 09 C-14 FUEL CAP NOT VENTING
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2020, 09:48:05 pm »
Steve. When this started happening (several months ago) I believe my key started to feel a little tight opening, even when I would push down on the front of the cap cover while turning the key.  When I got home I FLOODED the cap in thru the key slot and underneath the bottom around the sides all over w/WD-40.  I know that graphite is used for key tumblers but I didn't have any.   I think this is when the venting problem started happening.  I thought it was bad gas w/water in it and after several loads of gas and gasoline additive to remove water nothing helped.    But it always would run perfect after filling it  (ya, I released the pressure build up when I opened the cap) but always starved for fuel after reaching a 1/4 of a tank or less and trying to reach high RPMs (7,000+).    After seeing the photos of the dissembled cap, I thought that the WD-40 had blocked the channels in the labrynth and labrynth seal. I blew it out the cap w/compressed air and saw the WD-40 coming out all over thinking I could clean it out w/air but that didn't happen, it still starved for fuel after a full tank ran down to less that a quarter of a tank.     Still had the same issue.    Now that I have taken it apart cleaned it completely of any WD-40 that was in there  (I did see some oil base in it) and put it back together I have to go test it.
  Will post update on Monday after my ride this weekend.

                                                                                      Thanks for your input.   Alan
         
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Offline David

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Re: 09 C-14 FUEL CAP NOT VENTING
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2020, 09:51:48 pm »
If all else fails you could simply reassemble the cap minus a suspected part then run it to see if the problem recurs. I performed an "FJ1200 flap-ectamy" on the cap vent of a former bike to to resolve similar venting issues.

Offline JPD

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Re: 09 C-14 FUEL CAP NOT VENTING
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2020, 02:16:42 pm »
You are hearing the tank sucking trying to get air into the tank. Yes it will whine and pop when the tank is opened. Yes it will run fine if you take out 1 of the check valves or leave the cap open, as now you have created a two way vent in the system. When the tank can't vent in it is like putting your finger over the top of a straw in liquid and lifting it out. It will stay full until you take your finger off. Be glad you are hearing whining. If the tank is sealed tight you can suck in the tank like the photos in the post with the cap disassembled.

High pressure in the tank will just provide better pressure the the fuel injection system. Like a new in tank pump. It will only happen when cold fuel heats up and the air in the tank expands.

The inlet check valve in your cap is stuck or the air passage is blocked. My bike had been repainted and a bubble of paint happened right under the cap vent inlet nipple. it lifted up and blocked the vent. It would only cause problems after an extended high speed run.

Offline Alan_Yucius_FL

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Re: 09 C-14 FUEL CAP NOT VENTING
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2020, 07:29:57 pm »
Did my ride this morning and good news, it's not a venting issue , well not really good news but now I'm getting closer to the problem, I think.   This morning I had the same situation while riding but when it happened I had my spare key in the tank cap and while it was rolling w/throttle open & it was starving for fuel, I opened the cap & it's still starving for fuel.  I closed the cap. Not a venting problem.   Next while I not under throttle I pulled in the clutch, still coasting I shut off the ignition key, waited for a few moments w/the bike still moving I restarted the bike gave it full throttle and it ran fine right up to red line, thru 1,2,3 gear, where as just 10 seconds earlier it wouln't go over 4,500 rpms.  Now I thinking the fuel filter is getting cloged.  Do the pumps ever simi fail? It's a electric motor, either it works or it doesn't. I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time.    Is it possible when I shut it off the pump and the suction is stopped and it drops off some of the dirt around the filter and allows the pump to deliver more fuel to the system that it runs fine, could this be?    Since I'm always at low on fuel when this situation happens, I thinking that I have a little less than 1 gallon in the tank and this is why it would run fine till I get the low fuel light.   So, do I buy the pump and filter ($$) or just the filter ($)??  You know how frugal some of us try to be.   You also know once the pump comes out (and it was working) you will never put it back in again.  What to do, what to do??   I see the tank is not to hard to remove so do I do both now and see if the new pump and filter last as long as the original  (140,000 miles no complants there)?    What would you do and who has the best prices on parts?? I don't go to the dealer for work so that is out.     Thanks for everones interst and giving me advise.        Alan in S. Fl.

Offline Alan_Yucius_FL

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Re: 09 C-14 FUEL CAP NOT VENTING
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2020, 08:05:59 pm »
Anyone buy this pump?   $25.98 shipping included.     Say's LIFE TIME WARRANTY.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/KEMSO-High-Performance-Electric-Fuel-Pump-Install-Kit-13501/152621245184?
fits=Model%3AConcours+14%7CMake%3AKawasaki&epid=1052169503&hash=item2388ef6300:g:mYsAAOSw7F9dQ5yT#vi-ilComp
« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 10:23:59 pm by Alan_Yucius_FL »

Offline Just Cliff

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Re: 09 C-14 FUEL CAP NOT VENTING
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2020, 12:34:05 pm »
Alan than last description of your problem almost guarantees that your pump is failing. They don't necessarily work or not work, they can gradually go out. It's not pumping enough fuel at high RPM's. Replace your pump & filter, you have to take the pump out to replace filter anyway. It's not very hard to do.

I replaced mine last year just for cheap insurance, easier to do in shop than on the road. With 200,000 something miles on it, was bound to quit someday. I used the one from Quantum fuel systems, it was $69.00. There's a thread on here somewhere with the info.

I've only put maybe 15,000 miles on it & no problems so far.

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Offline Alan_Yucius_FL

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Re: 09 C-14 FUEL CAP NOT VENTING
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2020, 01:29:22 pm »
Thanks Clif. Glad you had a safe trip OTP.    Will be buying a new pump and filter this week. Like you said, nothing last for ever.  I'm going to try the $25.98 Kemso unit w/Life Time Warranty.     Thanks again.  Alan in S. Fl

Offline strum

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Re: 09 C-14 FUEL CAP NOT VENTING
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2020, 01:59:27 pm »
Alan . You may wanna pull that pump an see what the filter looks like.  My 08 filter cause the same thing as yours. I removed the filter and cleaned it with mineral spirits. It ran perfect after that .  My fix costed zero. Hope to save you some money here.
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Offline Alan_Yucius_FL

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Re: 09 C-14 FUEL CAP NOT VENTING
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2020, 02:14:32 pm »
   Thanks for your input Stan.   Now I have to straighten out the garage so I can find my tools.   Later  Alan in  S. Fl.

Offline Bud

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Re: 09 C-14 FUEL CAP NOT VENTING
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2020, 05:42:15 pm »
One thing leads to another.  DAMHIK.   :-[
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Offline Alan_Yucius_FL

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Re: 09 C-14 FUEL CAP NOT VENTING
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2020, 06:43:44 pm »
New KEMSO PUMP COMING next week.  Took the tank off & removed the pump assembly. Separated the pump and filter. Filter had lots of junk attached to it, not black and it had good color.     Blew the filter out and put everything back together.  Added gas & it started right up.  Not surprised. Going to take a ride.
Will post out come soon.  May be a few days.      Alan in S. Fl
« Last Edit: February 23, 2020, 02:18:39 pm by Alan_Yucius_FL »

Offline Alan_Yucius_FL

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Re: 09 C-14 FUEL CAP NOT VENTING
« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2020, 02:17:43 pm »
  After cleaning the filter and going for a ride I had the same issues.   Installed new pump and filter and tried it again and had the same starving for gas issue.
    Now I have ordered new fuel pressure regulator.    Will be here before the end of the week.        The saga continues.    :'(        Alan in S. Fl