Author Topic: World's fastest Cogger?  (Read 2522 times)

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Offline RoadKillHeaven

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Re: World's fastest Cogger?
« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2017, 05:34:46 am »
Awesome run.
I cannot imagine that speed from a heavy Connie. But I can attest it is rock solid at one-forty.  :motonoises:

I fondly remember Autobahn, but one memory stands out vividly. It was a convoy of red Ferraris passing us at speeds approaching twofold. Unforgettable sight! 
N-ring is on my bucket list.

Cheers...

Offline OKC14

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Re: World's fastest Cogger?
« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2017, 03:12:08 pm »
You, sir... are a true badass.  Hope to meet you someday and learn a thing or two. 

Offline Throttle 8

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Re: World's fastest Cogger?
« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2017, 11:18:51 pm »
Just for fun you should make a run with the bags on! 175 mph with luggage would impress a few people there I bet! lol
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Offline Deepsea

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Re: World's fastest Cogger?
« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2017, 12:04:44 am »
It took two hours and an appeal to get past tech with the modified ram air. No way would they ever allow removable saddlebags. Even when you know the inspectors (I was one once) and have an intimate understanding of the rules (I helped write some of them) it can still be difficult.
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Offline Throttle 8

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Re: World's fastest Cogger?
« Reply #29 on: October 27, 2017, 01:23:55 am »
It took two hours and an appeal to get past tech with the modified ram air. No way would they ever allow removable saddlebags. Even when you know the inspectors (I was one once) and have an intimate understanding of the rules (I helped write some of them) it can still be difficult.

 I didn't think it would happen---but it would be cool if it could.
I ran  my lightly modded 2000 ZX12R at "top speed run" they had a few years back at a sport bike rally they used to have in Parry Sound, Ontario. They held it at a local airport. There was no tech at all. You just lined up at one end of the runway, and they trapped you about 7500 ft down. I ran 194 mph. Might have been good for a couple more if I wasn't such a brick---lol!
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Offline Deepsea

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Re: World's fastest Cogger?
« Reply #30 on: October 27, 2017, 01:26:20 am »
194 through timing lights is Very Respectable .  :great:
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Offline Throttle 8

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Re: World's fastest Cogger?
« Reply #31 on: October 27, 2017, 01:46:42 am »
I was pretty happy. She was putting 183 to the rear wheel on the dyno (with another 12 from ram air on the top end). I would really like to go 200 some day---but I will need a faster bike.
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Offline Deepsea

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Re: World's fastest Cogger?
« Reply #32 on: October 27, 2017, 04:10:37 am »
Dyno's never tell the whole story. I'll bet the other 6mph is in the bike/rider. The challenge is to find them. Anybody can build more HP, it's only limited by $$$ spent.
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Offline Motor Psycho

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Re: World's fastest Cogger?
« Reply #33 on: November 02, 2017, 09:58:54 pm »
Deepsea
Was  it still pulling when you got out of the throttle? Given an endless runway, how fast do you think it would go?

Offline Deepsea

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Re: World's fastest Cogger?
« Reply #34 on: November 03, 2017, 04:18:17 am »
I did not feel like the rear wheel was spinning and the final few hundred yards it wasn't pulling by much if any. The only advantage to a runway would be quicker acceleration not terminal speed. Thats dictated be frontal area vs total power (Hp/Tq) and several other variables(Std Day, Density Altitude, Wet Bulb/Dry Bulb temp, etc.). It might go a little faster as is but my goal is/was 200. Not going to get there in stock configuration.
 Several things will have to be changed and none are easy or cheeeep.  :beerchug:
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Offline connie_rider

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Re: World's fastest Cogger?
« Reply #35 on: November 03, 2017, 11:00:30 am »
I read somewhere that the traction there is maybe 40% of the traction of a hard surface.
My understanding is that {even if you have the HP/Tq} that 40% traction is very borderline to push your bike thru the air?
So the shape of the frontal area is as important as making hp??

Do I have that correct?

Ride safe, Ted
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Offline Deepsea

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Re: World's fastest Cogger?
« Reply #36 on: November 03, 2017, 04:15:38 pm »
Frontal area is paramount in calculating total power required. Shape is also extremely important. The forward most point is where the pressure wave originates and moves outward. Any protrusion that extends into the pressure wave creates an additional wave which builds greater resistance. There's an entire science built around this. Turbulence is also a major factor and is created by everything. Weight is not much of a factor as traction is a function PSI loading of the rear tire on the contact patch. On my LSR bike I built a set of small wings that mount where the center stand goes and are linked to the swingarm. The lift they create is downward and increases with the movement of the swingarm. After some experiments I got it to load a max of 500 additional lbs when at speed. I was afraid to go any higher as the bike alone weighs 850lbs. I run 60 psi of dry n2 in the tires to help control heat buildup. Traction is different not just every year but every run. Looking down the course you can see areas that are loose and you try to miss them, not an easy feat. Many years ago when track monitoring was a little less vigilant a close friend that I built a twin engine package for went outside the course to build speed in clean salt then cut back in before the timing lights. Everyone I know that went fast enough to qualify for record attempts always geared for 20-30% wheel spin which has a major effect on total power needed (more math). If you want to make a serious attempt at going 200 mph you're going to need an IT guy and a very good mathematician / aeronautical engineer. Having access to a wind tunnel makes this much easier but also cost big $$$.
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Offline connie_rider

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Re: World's fastest Cogger?
« Reply #37 on: November 03, 2017, 08:31:32 pm »
Thanks, that helps.
   {But also makes me want to ask more questions...}  ;)
What class are you running the Connie in?
     My thought is the class your in limits the modifications you can make?
     I'll assume you can do bolt on changes, but not modify the engine or profile significantly?
Pushing down with X force would tend to raise the back of the bike and change your profile into the wind?
     I assume this is where the wind tunnel and IT guy come into play..
Gearing,,, have you come up with a way to change the Connie gearing?
Can we come watch??

Ride safe, Ted
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Offline Deepsea

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Re: World's fastest Cogger?
« Reply #38 on: November 04, 2017, 12:03:29 am »
I wasn't running in any "Class". The modified ram air disqualified the bike from stock class. This was a "Time only" run and would not qualify as a record attempt. Stock under SCTA/BNI rules is very restrictive and allows almost no changes except as approved by the Tech Committee for safety reasons only. Drag racing rules are much more liberal than LSR.
  The back end raises as a result of torque being applied to the drive train. The wing being attached to the chassis and linked to the swingarm to control angle of attack did not have that effect. It simply pulled down on the frame. The wind tunnel helps tune the body shape. Very minor changes can have major effects. Adding or removing extra washers under the fairing mount bolts will alter the shape enough to make a difference, also removing the heat wings helped.
  I machined a couple of gear pairs of different ratios for 6th gear reducing the overdrive. It would have been much easier if the C14 had a cartridge type transmission. I also was working on machining a new set of gears for the final drive but haven't finished them. They are much more involved than the transmission gears.
  Your welcome watch anytime, but you'll have to come to Germany.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2017, 12:06:58 am by Deepsea »
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Offline Rock

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Re: World's fastest Cogger?
« Reply #39 on: November 04, 2017, 12:05:29 am »
Doing the deep quick dive at Diego is one way to pass the time there. I was there for 52 days during/end of Desert Storm. Work, work, drink cold beer!  ;)

Did 120 mph on the Autobahn back in '96 in a Volvo wagon, forgot model, but I was a passenger and didn't like seeing brake lights ahead. Can't imagine moving at 180!

Be careful out there that speed can "eat your lunch" as one of my instructors was fond of saying.

 
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Offline Deepsea

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Re: World's fastest Cogger?
« Reply #40 on: November 04, 2017, 01:20:21 am »
Spent 6 months there. Most of it doing punitive work for the Master Diver after getting caught doing stupid things young bored sailors (divers are worse) do when cheep beer is available ( Bud $0.25 a can or $0.15 draft).
  Going fast is great and I have ridden the autobahn between Weisboden and Munich several times. I've been going 160 mph and had a Porsche come up behind flashing his lights like I was stopped, probably going 190.
  They very aggressively enforce the traffic laws. The cops drive Turbed Porsche Carrerra's and I don't care if your Andy Granatelli they will catch you. That's what makes it safe to drive that fast plus being required to have Un-Restricted Drivers License and an Un-Restricted tag on your vehicle. Total cost about $1650.00. They have 3 levels of driving, each requiring driving school and the unrestricted one is 5 days on a race track with an instructor in the car. On the last day there are other student/instructor cars running interference against each other. If your going 185mph and a car going Only 120 cuts in front to pass a car going 90 mph what will you do to prevent an accident. It's how they grade you for the unrestricted class. 30% don't pass their first try.
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Offline Bruiser

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Re: World's fastest Cogger?
« Reply #41 on: November 06, 2017, 01:48:17 am »
I'm not worthy :truce:
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Offline connie_rider

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Re: World's fastest Cogger?
« Reply #42 on: November 06, 2017, 01:42:36 pm »
I was wondering about the speed laws on the Autobahn.
During last years Alps Ride, we were on it (in the sections in which you can go the fastest).
I was at about 130 MPH, and occasionally some others were around 150.
We had cars pass us like we were stopped.
I was not aware you had to have a special license?

(Yes, I know a meer 130 is nothing to you)..   ;)
But, in my defense, that is all the BMW I was on would do!

Ride safe, Ted
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Offline Deepsea

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Re: World's fastest Cogger?
« Reply #43 on: November 06, 2017, 03:26:47 pm »
130 (240 feet per second) on a public road is far more challenging  than 200+ on the salt or dry lake (no obstacles to hit or get hit by). The skills required are completely different, think Drag vs Road racing. For a short burst of speed to pass other vehicles the Polizei will not bother you, but continued high speed they will watch for the license sticker. A couple of years back I got pulled over going 265kph (165mph). I didn't have the unrestricted license but the officer recognized my FIM Class A racing license, along with massive amounts of humility (groveling?), and let me go with a stern lecture. Dodged a big $$$$$ fine and learned about the driving laws. I now have an International License. You can go to any AAA office and for $20 get an International Driving Permit. It's not unrestricted but it does allow you to drive in the EU and many other countries without taking a test or paying any $$.
  I've seen a line of Porches, Ferrari's, Lambo's and Motorcycles all flashing their lights for the one in front to get out of the way while going 150+. You do not want to pass on the right side at speed. It will land you behind bars and your vehicle gets impounded. You also don't want to be the one going to slow in the left lane. If you're holding up traffic or pass more than 5 cars without moving over it will get you a $$$$ ticket.
  Sure wish people drove here like they do there. Last year I spent 3 months riding around Germany on back farm roads and didn't see even 1 pothole or any litter.

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Offline connie_rider

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Re: World's fastest Cogger?
« Reply #44 on: November 07, 2017, 02:46:54 pm »
Thanks Deepsea.
I did have an International License, and was aware about the left lane rules.
But, I was not aware of the Special License. Is there a certain speed you can not exceed without it?

One thing Bernd told us is, never/ever pull into the left lane without looking carefully to see what was approaching.
He was totally right!!

(Humiliating story)
While doing approx. 120, 2 rotten individuals {Bernd's wife (Anette) and my wife (Judy)} passed me in Bernd's Volkswagen car, {And waved at me}...    ;)

Ride safe, Ted
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Offline smooth_operator

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Re: World's fastest Cogger?
« Reply #45 on: November 09, 2017, 12:15:21 am »
I'm impressed too. I'm really impressed by that list of motorcycles on DeepSeas sig line. A Z1 and Z1R? Still at the house or is that from the motorcycling past? :great:

And He's got a CDA#  Yeah Baby!! :great: :beerchug:
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Offline Deepsea

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Re: World's fastest Cogger?
« Reply #46 on: November 09, 2017, 04:39:30 pm »
Yup. That was about day three of ownership (CDA). Red light, lane split to front of line, feet down, oh s*** nothing under left foot-slow motion all the way down. Right in front of an 18 wheeler just as the light turns green.  >:( >:( >:(


If the truck driver hadn't been paying attention my C14 would have been crushed under the front wheels along with me. Fortunately he saw it happen and got out to help me get up and going again. Now I'm even more conscious of holding back traffic, creating space, when an 18 wheeler wants to change lanes.
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Offline connie_rider

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Re: World's fastest Cogger?
« Reply #47 on: November 09, 2017, 04:47:13 pm »
Last question;
In your last Autobahn note you mentioned "they will watch for the license sticker".
Is there a special sticker on the rear of the cars that identifies what speeds they are allowed to run?
I notices stickers on some of the cars (D, etc) and assumed it mean the country they were from?

Reason I'm asking is I want to understand the details before next years "Ride the Alps Rally"..

NOTE: At the Rally, there will be lots of twisties and VERY little Autobahn riding, so your cornering skills will be needed more than your amazing speed skills.
If I get to go;  I hope to do a little extra exploring..  >:D

Ride safe, Ted
« Last Edit: November 09, 2017, 04:51:25 pm by connie_rider »
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Offline Deepsea

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Re: World's fastest Cogger?
« Reply #48 on: November 09, 2017, 07:02:29 pm »
My most humble apologies to everyone.
 
It seems that in the intervening years since I first drove in Europe, before the EU existed, the German laws have changed and I haven't kept up with them. They no longer have the levels based on skills or training. Now there is only one license. Well actually two based on age/number of years of driving experience. No more "U" stickers in the window. If you have a license and three years experience, over the age of 21, go for it. But, if you've been driving less than 3 years the legal limit for alcohol is...... 0.00%. Any blood alcohol higher than 0 gets your license automatically revoked. After 3 years experience the limit is 0.05%. :beerchug: :beerchug:
Even this old dog can still learn something. Sometimes.
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Offline rrsperry

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Re: World's fastest Cogger?
« Reply #49 on: November 20, 2017, 01:01:07 pm »
182? Oh... you mean on the bike. Earlier in life I was a Navy SEAL, and a pilot. Yeah, I flew the SR... SR-71. Yeah that's right.   3,145 mph... Then I went home to my wife... Morgan Freeman.. Yeah, that's the ticket... (in my best Jon Lovitz voice.)

Well done. Deepsea..

When I actually hit 155 on my Aprilia, all I was thinking was... DON'T FALL OFF... No DEER, SQUIRREL!!!!!