Author Topic: WOW. Had never seen this.  (Read 1957 times)

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Offline Old Man on a Connie

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Offline gsun

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Re: WOW. Had never seen this.
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2017, 03:16:32 am »
Lots of info I didn't know in this article. But the cruise question. Needs a bigger battery? What about all of us that added cruise? As well as all the other crap? My battery is just fine. And wouldn't that be an alternator question, not battery?

Offline Old Man on a Connie

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Re: WOW. Had never seen this.
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2017, 03:20:34 am »
That is a question ain't it. Check the other links at the bottom re kipass etc. I'm gonna reach out to this dude.
"I don't always ride street bikes, but when I do, It's a Concours. A C14 '11 silver to be precise." OTP 2017 We gonna dance! Danke Schoen

Offline Diz

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Re: WOW. Had never seen this.
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2017, 09:15:51 am »
Never heard of a wet plastic sheet traction control test. Wonder how other bikes would do.........

Offline NYbiomed

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Re: WOW. Had never seen this.
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2017, 10:46:24 am »
Cool read, but yeah....weird about the battery being specific? I have a lithium+ battery in mine, so now there's plenty of room in there and how much power could the cruise control really require? Also, it's great to hear that Mama Kaw is talking about a GEN3 Concours!! Very exciting!!
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Offline Bob H

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Re: WOW. Had never seen this.
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2017, 10:52:38 am »
I found this sentence in the referenced article particularly interesting. Says much about the opinion of the average dealer!!:

"Because law enforcement agencies universally refused to take the bikes to dealers (due in part no doubt to their previous somewhat memorable experience with BMW), "
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Offline Gumby

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Re: WOW. Had never seen this.
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2017, 10:55:36 am »
"rode a company-supplied insured and maintained rider bike"

How does one get this job?

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: WOW. Had never seen this.
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2017, 11:12:40 am »
I read that article previously. I have some problems with the truthfulness of some of the technical statements regarding vvt. Steve
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Offline ron203

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Re: WOW. Had never seen this.
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2017, 12:23:35 pm »
Thanks for sharing Mark. Interesting paragraph about the brake fluid in reflection of the recent discussions about brake fluid change out.

I remember the  magazine coverage of the "wet plastic sheet" test. With the control turned off, the riders were all over the place."
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Offline NinjaBreadMan

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Re: WOW. Had never seen this.
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2017, 02:27:03 pm »
Lots of info I didn't know in this article. But the cruise question. Needs a bigger battery? What about all of us that added cruise? As well as all the other crap? My battery is just fine. And wouldn't that be an alternator question, not battery?

I agree.  That comment in the article about the battery size being a limitation for cruise control is BS.  Cruise control takes very little power, certainly less than heated gear or extra lighting that people have added to their bikes.  And, as gsun pointed out the alternator supplies power to accessories while the engine is running, not the battery.
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Offline mattchewn

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Re: WOW. Had never seen this.
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2017, 02:30:15 pm »
Lots of info I didn't know in this article. But the cruise question. Needs a bigger battery? What about all of us that added cruise? As well as all the other crap? My battery is just fine. And wouldn't that be an alternator question, not battery?

I agree.  That comment in the article about the battery size being a limitation for cruise control is BS.  Cruise control takes very little power, certainly less than heated gear or extra lighting that people have added to their bikes.  And, as gsun pointed out the alternator supplies power to accessories while the engine is running, not the battery.
Think about it. Cruise control on a bike comes not with its' own servo motor. It comes in the form of drive by wire. This means servo motor controlled throttle bodies and all accompanying electrical load.
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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: WOW. Had never seen this.
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2017, 02:32:57 pm »
Matt, we already have that, but the stepper motor is on the secondary plates. Steve
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Offline mattchewn

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Re: WOW. Had never seen this.
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2017, 02:37:20 pm »
Matt, we already have that, but the stepper motor is on the secondary plates. Steve
Steve,
We don't have servo controlled throttle bodies yet since we open them with throttle cable and linkage. We have stepper motor on the secondary plates which would not work for a cruise control.  Here's hoping for next year!
Matt
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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: WOW. Had never seen this.
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2017, 02:46:32 pm »
Matt, we already have that, but the stepper motor is on the secondary plates. Steve
Steve,
We don't have servo controlled throttle bodies yet since we open them with throttle cable and linkage. We have stepper motor on the secondary plates which would not work for a cruise control.  Here's hoping for next year!
Matt

  you're misunderstanding me... what I mean is that the system and electrical load already exists, but attached to the secondaries.   If we get fly by wire, then there will be no more secondaries, nor cables, and the motor or a close version of it would be fit to the primary throttle shaft for actuation. In other words, electrically, I don't think the current draw is going to be significantly different than what we have now. Steve
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Offline Sport Rider

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Re: WOW. Had never seen this.
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2017, 08:07:22 pm »
Anticdotally, I agree with what all you guys are saying, but IF this guy has valid info and IF it truely came from a good internal authority (such as the engineers/designers), then don't you think there's gotta be some merit to it?  is it possible that the additional load all the extras are putting on the battery are in some way causing other systems to be shut down more frequently, or for longer periods?  wouldn't it come down to the charge that's being put back into the battery by the rectifier would need to change in order to provide the additional current?
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: WOW. Had never seen this.
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2017, 08:30:44 pm »
Interesting reading stuff from Mike Nixon...

Especially this....
http://www.motorcycleproject.com/text/KDS_2016_intro.html

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Offline Old Man on a Connie

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Re: WOW. Had never seen this.
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2017, 09:31:36 pm »
Interesting reading stuff from Mike Nixon...

Especially this....
http://www.motorcycleproject.com/text/KDS_2016_intro.html

Yeah, I was going to point that out to Steve. Seems this guy was the dealer trainer for Ma Kaw and wrote this tutorial. I reached out to him. Looks like he is in Prescott AZ. I'll see if I can get some clarification on the Batt. Seems this is the 2nd time I've seen a reference to it due to CC tho it doesn't make much sense to me either. But then................ :??:
"I don't always ride street bikes, but when I do, It's a Concours. A C14 '11 silver to be precise." OTP 2017 We gonna dance! Danke Schoen

Offline Old Man on a Connie

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Re: WOW. Had never seen this.
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2017, 11:50:57 pm »
Here is Mikes reply to the battery inquiry. The tone sounds kinda familiar  ;) :beerchug:
"At the risk of saying the same thing over again (not sure what else to do, nor why it is so controversial or mysterious--it's very plain to me), the idea, and I know many are discrediting it, is that the battery is already too small for the bike.  You do realize that Kawasaki has never before designed ECU/accessories to cycle themselves less as battery voltage drops to save the battery?  Keep this one thing in mind.  I am not an engineer.  I can only tell you what I have been told, though as an experienced and formally trained tech I am not clueless either."
Now the cycling thing makes a bit of sense. You wouldn't want CC to be cycling on/off. The cycling is something also I had never heard of nor experienced. Anywho here ya go.
"I don't always ride street bikes, but when I do, It's a Concours. A C14 '11 silver to be precise." OTP 2017 We gonna dance! Danke Schoen

Offline Jorge

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Re: WOW. Had never seen this.
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2017, 12:17:09 am »
guys... insider info does not necessarily mean knowledgeable insider information.

Offline SilverConnieRider

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Re: WOW. Had never seen this.
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2017, 12:34:20 am »
Sounds like an EXCUSE to blame no Cruise on too small a battery.

Especially when the author stated that he WASN'T a fan of Cruise Control.

MY opinion is - any bike classed as a TOURING bike (in it's title) should come standard with cruise.
IF someone chooses not to use it - that is their choice.
If they don't think it's worth a couple hundred dollars - buy a different bike.  JMO.
After all you can't buy a non ABS bike, right?

And did I read that right? - that police bikes are limited to 130 mph?

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: WOW. Had never seen this.
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2017, 12:37:47 am »
Yeah, like when in 2007 and the bike was being rolled out, I was "elected" to question the techs displaying the bikes on the new technology. I was told that the vvt was a spring loaded advancer, similar to ignition advance or a compression release.  :-[ Steve
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Offline Old Man on a Connie

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Re: WOW. Had never seen this.
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2017, 01:06:24 am »
Yeah, like when in 2007 and the bike was being rolled out, I was "elected" to question the techs displaying the bikes on the new technology. I was told that the vvt was a spring loaded advancer, similar to ignition advance or a compression release.  :-[ Steve
Same thing I got at the '15 rollout Steve when I asked about the low friction steering stem seals. The answer I got was "No, Really". When we asked about the CC we got "we're working on it?" Now we know Mom Kaw has been getting beat up pretty bad with the economy so I can see them doing some engineering cost cutting. Just sayin'. And if it's true  :-X that they are focusing on a LEO bike the tech and reliability will trickle down yeah?
"I don't always ride street bikes, but when I do, It's a Concours. A C14 '11 silver to be precise." OTP 2017 We gonna dance! Danke Schoen

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: WOW. Had never seen this.
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2017, 01:18:22 am »
Mark, my point is more that anything, what comes from the manufacturer tends to be dis-information. Automotive is the same way.

 Let me give an example. in the article the author says the "start up rattle is the vvt"... that's interesting... but the old connie has the start up rattle, and no vvt. And concurrently, the zx14 has the same rattle... and no vvt. AND I have personally fixed the dreaded vvt rattle by replacing the cam chain tensioners on 2 c-14... so it wasn't the vvt at all.  :-[  Steve
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Offline Old Man on a Connie

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Re: WOW. Had never seen this.
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2017, 01:28:32 am »
I hear ya Steve and agree. This guy is no longer with KMC so???????????? Seems like he has some good history though. All posted FWIW. Hey, did I tell you about the French model I met on the internet?  :)) :)) :)) She said Bonjour and everything. The mustache threw me though.  :beerchug: ;) :)) :)) :))
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Offline Bob H

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Re: WOW. Had never seen this.
« Reply #24 on: April 16, 2017, 02:18:45 am »
Do you guys realize how far (information wise) it is from the engineers who designed the C14 to the guy who wrote the piece in question?  Your own knowledge from working directly with the motor far exceeds this guy's understanding.

It's like passing the secret around the room in grade school.  What goes in has no relation to what comes out!  I can assure you that even the designer's managers have only a modest idea of why they did what they did, and have their own mistaken ideas on how the engine really works.

40+ years in engineering does make a guy a bit cynical though!
« Last Edit: April 16, 2017, 02:31:38 pm by Bob H »
Remember, much of what you see on-line is wrong or misguided, your task is to filter that out!
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