Author Topic: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....  (Read 10613 times)

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Offline KnoxSwift

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Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« on: May 09, 2014, 05:47:09 pm »
Holy Cow.

So I live in a rural area, there are only 2 Kawasaki Dealerships even considerably close to my home. (Closest is 65 miles).

I called both and BOTH said they do not want the job to do the Valves on the C-14! One said it would cost me $$$$1800. The other claimed their techs are too green for such a job and I could wait until 50K no problem. I should of recorded the conversations!?

What the Hell!

Is there any way for a no-body like me to contact Kawasaki Corporate? I can't see to find a way to contact them. I wonder if I should try the warranty line to try to get a human to talk to. 

They have Dealers who don't want to do the work!  :-\

I've been reading up on the job, was considering doing myself, I just don't have the time to put into this I can't believe dealers don't want to take my money on this? From what I've read on this site the 50K comment is a Huge deal, everyone who's done this themselves have indicated the need to adjust.

I'm completely in shock right now.... ???

Offline Cold Streak

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2014, 07:14:49 pm »
I guess you don't want to go to those dealerships for any work, much less a valve adjust.  Check in your local area for shops that do work on bikes.  Ask for references from local riders.  List where exactly you are and someone on this forum can probably steer you in the right direction.  It's not a job for the meek, but it isn't impossible at all for an experienced bike mechanic.
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Offline KnoxSwift

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2014, 07:29:08 pm »
Agreed, if they say no to this. What else do they cut corners on?!

Big Bear Lake, CA...for anyone in the SW area who knows a dealer who might do the work.

Otherwise, I'll just have to find the time to work on it myself.

Offline BDF

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2014, 08:25:08 pm »
I am on the other coast and so cannot help you regarding a dealer but I do know of a few people here (northeast US) who have traveled a couple of hundred miles to take the bike to a dealer they trusted. One gentleman brought the bike in a pickup and the rest rode to the dealer.

If you do find a dealer w/in, say, 150 miles, you should be able to have all the major maintenance done on the bike over at most two days so you should be able to pull the whole thing off with just one overnight stay.

Not suggesting you do any of this, just throwing out some ideas.

And some of us have gone over to the 'non- US' maintenance schedule of 26K miles before the first valve lash check.... successfully.

Brian

Agreed, if they say no to this. What else do they cut corners on?!

Big Bear Lake, CA...for anyone in the SW area who knows a dealer who might do the work.

Otherwise, I'll just have to find the time to work on it myself.
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Offline norm-9688

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2014, 08:59:01 pm »
Just to be clear the shops are NOT factory owned and the only thing dealer have to do is warranty work per the franchise agreement. Customer paid service is at their discretion,  I would be glad that one dealer told you his guys could not handle it, better than messing it up. The other threw you a price he knew you would not go for, fastest way to end the conversation. Its spring and I bet they have a yard full of bikes, losing a full day or more to service your bike would cost more than they would earn, why do a very complicatd service like that when he's buried in tires and oil changes that he can do all day long with little to no agrivation.  If your that close on mileage you should have brought the bike in sooner than May. While I realize your not in a winter zone its still their busy time I bet.

Offline mtnbandit

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2014, 10:45:03 pm »
 Matt;
 I know it's a long way to the north, but Wilsons in Fresno has done my valves twice. They do a good job and in a timely manner.
 Brent
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Offline Fred_Harmon_TX

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2014, 10:50:25 pm »
I do valve adjustments. Feel free to contact me if I can help.

I really can understand why a dealer wouldn't want to do them. It is a big job, and they probably end up loosing money on them because of the amount of time it takes. Especially the first time you do one. When I do a bike, it generally takes me 3-4 days, mainly because I refuse to rush this job. There are many ways you can mess it up, and the last thing you want to do is hurry.
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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2014, 10:57:17 pm »
Florida Coggers have a hook up also  ;)  Steve
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Offline Rembrant

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2014, 11:10:25 pm »

I called both and BOTH said they do not want the job to do the Valves on the C-14! One said it would cost me $$$$1800.

The other claimed their techs are too green for such a job...

Ya know, I couldn't really knock the guy for telling you that his techs simply aren't up to the job. That's honest at least.

It's a big job. I've done more valve adjusts than I can count, and no matter how you slice it...it's still a big job on the C14.

My local Kawasaki dealer will not quote the job....they go by time and materials, and give you a warning of what it might cost. Just a C14 valve check would be in the area of $800 including tax, and a check and adjust...well, you'd be in the $1000 range (and up). I know the tech very well that does them, and he claims it takes him one full 8 hour day, plus a couple hours the next day to button the bike all back up.

Rem ;D
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Offline luv2fly

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2014, 11:16:47 pm »
You guys have just scared the living snot out of me at what a valve check/adjust will cost.  My closest dealer is not known for cutting its customers much slack.  Capable, probably, but it sure gets passed along.  The dealer I bought from is 45-60 minutes away.  Not a big deal if its a one day job and I could get a cheap demo to put around on and not sit there all day.
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Offline JPavlis_CA

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2014, 11:19:50 pm »
Wilsons in Fresno

Wilson's is probably the best place in the state for work. Closest place to you for good work is probably in San Berdoo, Redlands or Riverside. I'll check with some contacts and get back to you.
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Offline BDF

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2014, 12:51:13 am »
Having done more than a couple of these myself, I would say that riding the bike to the facility, having that facility perform a valve lash check and adjust, then ride the bike out in one day.... one Earth day.... can be done but the ride to and fro are gonna' need headlights. My local dealer, who is honest and competent, has now done enough that they have set the time at something like 9.3 hours (they have an exact time, I just cannot remember it exactly) so one work- day is not enough. Especially if cool- down time for the bike is figured in. I would seriously caution anyone to look more closely and be very aware if a dealer, or anyone else, claims he / she / they can do this job in a single day.

Brian

You guys have just scared the living snot out of me at what a valve check/adjust will cost.  My closest dealer is not known for cutting its customers much slack.  Capable, probably, but it sure gets passed along.  The dealer I bought from is 45-60 minutes away.  Not a big deal if its a one day job and I could get a cheap demo to put around on and not sit there all day.
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Offline Rusty

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2014, 02:59:37 am »
Agreed, if they say no to this. What else do they cut corners on?!

Big Bear Lake, CA...for anyone in the SW area who knows a dealer who might do the work.

Otherwise, I'll just have to find the time to work on it myself.

Have you tried Chaparral Motor sports in San Bernadino. Very cool dealership. Heard they do good service. Nearby..   :motonoises:  :great:

Offline KnoxSwift

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2014, 05:40:14 am »
Thanks all for the replies.

I'm thinking I might just have to suck it up and do them myself. It's not that I can't do the job, I sort of just don't want to do the job. :( I'm even getting tired of doing my own tires, I go through them so fast...LOL

I've read the whole process twice in the Service Manual (Still have to watch the videos) and I know for me it will take a couple of weekends and I have so little time already. Let alone I'm almost positive I'd end up having to order shims on-line.

For those who said San Berno and Redlands...I've now called the Kawasaki dealers as far as Fontana with not one willing to do the valve job. Not even the dealer I bought the bike from...

BDF, I did have 3 dealers now say don't do them or wait for 30K, 40K 50K, all have a different opinion on how long to wait. To me sounds like the just don't like doing the job.

mtnbandit, I wonder if I should take a vacation to Fresno! HA!

Rusty, Chaparral Motors, I've been there a few times and they never seem to have the parts I need in stock. But they are nice about it... Also, They were one of the dealers who said to wait there's no reason to do them.

Offline instructor

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2014, 09:47:53 am »
Before buying my '12 Concours inquired to dealer Svc. Dep't. about the eventual valve adjustment issue and how much it cost.
Was told that their approach is to bring it in at some 25,000 miles and they first do a compression test and if it meets spec, don't do the valve adjustment job at that time.  Was told that the cost to do the full valve adjustment job would be between 600-$800.00  It is a full day plus project I was told and not a problem for only live about half a mile from the dealership. As to whether their approach is correct or not or the pricing, just reporting what I was told.

Offline CW

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2014, 10:15:12 am »
The two closest dealers to me gave me the same spiel: don't want the work. One told me outright to not bother with it, and the other said $800, minimum, and they don't ever see any that need adjustment. Makes you want to just trade/sell off the bike, and get a newer one instead!
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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2014, 12:37:08 pm »
Those that are quoting on the 10-12 hour range are right on. Plastic is a pita.

We actually did a valve adjustment at my tech session this year. we had all the plastic off to start, then tore it down with an audience and teaching. All valves were measured, all necessary shims changed, (I think all were changed) buttoned back up and running before the tech session was over.

Considering that there was only one person working at a time - either me or Daytona Mike - and that we were photographing / live streaming / intermittent explanatory instruction, etc. I think we did pretty good.  The job started around 10:00 am and concluded maybe 5:30 pm, with a nice lunch break; we made good time.

 We also replaced the sensor orings,  removed / deleted the pair valve system / and installed a manual cam chain tensioner.

  BTW, several who post here watched intently, some may have learned enough to do the job, but I think the average concensus was there was "no way" they'd try to do it themselves.  :-\  Steve
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Offline KnoxSwift

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2014, 01:06:03 pm »
Those that are quoting on the 10-12 hour range are right on. Plastic is a pita.

We actually did a valve adjustment at my tech session this year. we had all the plastic off to start, then tore it down with an audience and teaching. All valves were measured, all necessary shims changed, (I think all were changed) buttoned back up and running before the tech session was over.

Considering that there was only one person working at a time - either me or Daytona Mike - and that we were photographing / live streaming / intermittent explanatory instruction, etc. I think we did pretty good.  The job started around 10:00 am and concluded maybe 5:30 pm, with a nice lunch break; we made good time.

 We also replaced the sensor orings,  removed / deleted the pair valve system / and installed a manual cam chain tensioner.

  BTW, several who post here watched intently, some may have learned enough to do the job, but I think the average concensus was there was "no way" they'd try to do it themselves.  :-\  Steve

So, I agree it's a big tedious job, no question, I also think I could or anyone could do the job if they take their time, ask questions on this forum to who have done it. --Great post...

However, I think what I'm trying to get at here is "they" are the dealers - the front end of the Corporation that is Kawasaki- they should take the jobs, do them right and not cut corners. There personal should be trained on all the models and even if it's expensive to do the work they shouldn't turn away and lie about the service intervals?  That's just my opinion. Never had this issue with Honda??? Is it just that much easier to do the Valve job on a honda? Some of these dealers are Honda/Kawi/etc etc?

I think the "No Way" factor comes in that so much has to come apart and there is so much room for error.
 
Sort of why I don't feel like tackling it. I'm an engineer by trade, I've restored a couple of motorcycles now, I know I could follow the steps point by point. I have all the tools necessary. It's just one of those things, I think, I'd like to not "have" to do and pay a mechanic. So far, unless I want to drive to Fresno, looking like I'll have to do it myself, LOL! That being said, What gaskets should I buy ahead of time???

Offline Fred_Harmon_TX

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2014, 01:49:39 pm »
FYI, the 2010 and later models are a LOT harder to do than the 08/09 bikes, mainly due to all the changes Kawasaki made to the plastic and the air dams used on the bike to block heat.

I think the real issue here is that Kawasaki didn't design the bike so that it would be easy to work on, and so the dealers all hate to have to work on this bike. The real blame falls on Kawasaki's design. The way the frame covers the whole top of the engine is a big part of the reason. And the airbox is even part of the frame too. Then wrap all that up in wire harnesses and plastic, and you have a perfect recipe for a bike that no one wants to work on. This is because they tried to reuse most of the ZX-14 parts instead of designing the bike from scratch.

Kawasaki needs to rethink their design process a little bit, and design this bike so it isn't so difficult to service. Especially in light of their relatively low mileage intervals on valves and spark plugs. Things that are supposed to be done every 15K and 7.5K miles should not be this hard to access. Personally, I don't blame the dealers for not wanting to do them.
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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2014, 02:16:52 pm »

So, I agree it's a big tedious job, no question, I also think I could or anyone could do the job if they take their time, ask questions on this forum to who have done it. --Great post...


You're looking at it through your eyes, you  can do this job, but trust me, as an engine builder with 30 years experience, I can tell you the single WORST place in an engine to screw someone up is with valve timing issues. "anyone" cannot remove the cams and get them back in without messing up the valve timing. I employed several marks and indicators, which saved me when the crank turned... without all that pre-disassembly work to insure proper reassembly, most guys (non - engineers, non engine guys) are going to play hell once the cams are removed. Steve
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Offline ZG

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2014, 03:04:52 pm »

I called both and BOTH said they do not want the job to do the Valves on the C-14! One said it would cost me $$$$1800.

The other claimed their techs are too green for such a job...

Ya know, I couldn't really knock the guy for telling you that his techs simply aren't up to the job. That's honest at least.

It's a big job. I've done more valve adjusts than I can count, and no matter how you slice it...it's still a big job on the C14.

My local Kawasaki dealer will not quote the job....they go by time and materials, and give you a warning of what it might cost. Just a C14 valve check would be in the area of $800 including tax, and a check and adjust...well, you'd be in the $1000 range (and up). I know the tech very well that does them, and he claims it takes him one full 8 hour day, plus a couple hours the next day to button the bike all back up.

Rem ;D

 :iagree:  +1... I'd rather have somebody tell me they aren't skilled/experienced enough to do it, then to have them try and screw something up.  :great: :beerchug:


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Offline JPavlis_CA

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2014, 04:39:32 pm »
Matthew - I may have missed it, but how many miles do you currently have on your bike? I wouldn't do the job until 25k miles. And certainly not now heading into riding season unless you absolutely need to.

If all of the southland dealers are refusing the job, I suggest calling Kawi's corp headquarters down in Irvine and ask them if they know of a shop that will help you. It's one thing for dealerships to be independents, but it's another thing when Kawi sells a product none of their licensed dealers are willing to service. Kawi can't tell them what to do, but surely can "persuade" them.

Mention you're a member of COG and that we know about this.
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Offline KnoxSwift

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2014, 04:39:34 am »
JPavlis_CA,

Believe it or not, 2013 will be due when I get back from the SW rally in Prescott. I like this bike so much I just keep racking up the miles...So basically calling around to find out who would do the job and make an appointment for when I return. Turned out to be much harder than one would think...

If I have to do it my self I might wait until 25K. But that is killing the engineer in me.  :-[ Specs. are meant to be followed.

Offline Oregonrider

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2014, 06:56:42 am »
Just curious...
What are the most miles any of you have gone BEFORE doing a valve adjustment?
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Offline C. Moore

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2014, 09:43:03 am »
Yea, I'm waiting for somebody to say how many miles they have gone without ever touching the valves. I was pretty anal about the valves on the old C10 but that was nothing compared to this thing. Taking cams out intimidates the hell out of me. I'm thinking Fred and I are going to get know each other come valve service time. Just saying.
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