Author Topic: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....  (Read 10614 times)

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Offline Rembrant

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2014, 09:50:06 am »
There was a guy recently on another forum with a 2008 C14 that didn't check his valves until 112,000 miles, and the mechanic told him the valves were still in-spec. They did change the timing chain and tensioner though.

Rem ;D
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Offline C. Moore

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2014, 10:01:30 am »
That is a bunch of miles without touching the valves. I wonder how that guy rode the bike. Wild a** vs. conservative or in between. Compared to some I'm pretty easy on the throttle.
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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2014, 11:22:41 am »
I have a hard time believing 112,000 miles and "still in spec"... nah, the only thing still in spec there was the lazy mechanic  ::)  My 09 has 42k on it; It had the valves done at 20k, by 42k several were out of spec to the low side. I've been involved on 2 othe valve jobs, one has 15 k the other 82 (with several adjustments) and they both had several out of spec  to the low side. 112,000 and still in spec? what was that, the bionic connie ? Steve
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2014, 12:49:14 pm »
There was a guy recently on another forum with a 2008 C14 that didn't check his valves until 112,000 miles, and the mechanic told him the valves were still in-spec. They did change the timing chain and tensioner though.

Rem ;D

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Offline Brass

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2014, 01:19:59 pm »
112,000 miles and still in spec is BS
Shaun - Collegeville PA
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Offline Rembrant

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #30 on: May 11, 2014, 01:29:06 pm »
Haha...hey, I'm only passing on a post by another C14 owner. I'm not saying it's true or not, or if the mechanic was lazy or not...lol.

The part I do believe is that they weren't checked until 112,000 miles...lol. That doesn't surprise me in the least.

Cheers,
Rem ;D
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Offline ssbraun

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #31 on: May 11, 2014, 01:49:10 pm »
Quote
But that is killing the engineer in me.  :-[ Specs. are meant to be followed.





I am consoled by the fact that the "engineers in Kawasaki" recommend 26k miles everywhere in the world except US/Canada as BDF mentioned earlier. I understand that the shorter intervals are based on our more stringent emissions laws....maybe as a "CYA" policy.

I plan to wait until 40k km on mine   :great:
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Offline JPavlis_CA

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #32 on: May 11, 2014, 01:58:26 pm »
If I have to do it my self I might wait until 25K. But that is killing the engineer in me.  :-[ Specs. are meant to be followed.

Ahh, but if you truly are an ing-en-neer, then you will know the difference between specs and service intervals. One is a fact, the other is a suggestion. What confuses the issue is the US requirement for valve adjusts at 15k miles, while the rest of world is 26k miles. I find that interesting in that Europe actually has tighter regs for pollution than the US. All I can do is presume it's because the US requirement is another attempt by some 3 letter gov'mnt bureaucracy at controlling our lives. Doh!, Now I've done it, turned this into a political thread, might as well lock it right now.

BTW, did anyone notice the maintenance interval for engine vacuum sync checks? Every 7.5k miles. Twice as often as the valve checks. How many of you have done that, hmmmm????   :)   (whew, back on topic, good save)
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Offline KnoxSwift

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #33 on: May 11, 2014, 08:20:50 pm »
True service interval is a suggestion but I have not found a definitive answer as to why so short in the US.

Just to throw this out there. I have a Toyota Tacoma. Also shim/bucket valve adjustment. Toyota has NO recommend adjustment interval for the valves. But that engine redlines at 6K not 10+K...

I've heard the emissions thing, but I don't by that. I was even wondering about maybe because of ethanol but it's used in Europe as well and it's not like I'm using E85 and timing is a concern? And the Toyota truck thing also invalidates that thought... I'm really thinking it just mechanics and the High RPMs the bike can turn make tolerances tight and very important?

I'm going to call one more dealer someone recommended and if it doesn't pan out I'll probably do it myself at some point this summer so probably after the recommended interval.

I still think anyone who's had a similar experience should complain to Kawasaki as they need to know what's happening at the dealer level and the difficulties customers are facing.

Offline JPavlis_CA

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #34 on: May 11, 2014, 08:43:10 pm »
I've heard the emissions thing, but I don't by that. I was even wondering about maybe because of ethanol but it's used in Europe as well... I'm really thinking it just mechanics and the High RPMs the bike can turn make tolerances tight and very important?

There's really only two viable reasons for US service intervals to be tighter than Europe, or rest of world(ROW).

1) The wonderful EPA has some regulations in place that are enacted by the USDOT on manufacturers requiring the tighter service intervals because the totalitarian regime of the EPA demands it. After all, the current Euro Level 3 emissions requirements are much tighter than ours, so it's not like their extended intervals are bad for emissions.

or

2) It's due to our litigious society and the company lawyers requiring it so the company isn't handed it's hat when some squid gets injured when he destroys the top end doing wheelies and max rpm runs. (Only in the US will be people sue at the drop of the hat). In other words, try to catch the damage early enough to blame the rider for damage and get out of warranty work or injury claim.

Or maybe the bikes in the rest of the world don't rev as high.  ::)
« Last Edit: May 11, 2014, 08:59:56 pm by JPavlis_CA »
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Offline BDF

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #35 on: May 11, 2014, 08:44:52 pm »
All fine and well, and hey, it might even do some good but the underlying problem remains- some dealers are just not competent enough or interested enough to do this work. I doubt Kawasaki (or any motorcycle manufacturer except perhaps BMW) could effectively 'force' them to do something they clearly have chosen NOT to do and on top of that, I don't know that it would be a good idea. I understand your frustration and even your surprise but I really do not think the customers are going to be better served by forcing a dealer to do what they are not qualified or able to do. That just cannot end well for anyone I think.

Brian


<snip>

I still think anyone who's had a similar experience should complain to Kawasaki as they need to know what's happening at the dealer level and the difficulties customers are facing.
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Offline KnoxSwift

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #36 on: May 11, 2014, 09:53:46 pm »
Agreed not saying force dealers to do the work but Kawi should be made aware that dealers either can't or don't wish to work on their products.
Being that's they are the front end it will, in the long run, give them a bad name/rep unless they figure out something to do about it.
BMW is a good example as their techs are probably the most trained techs out there at least motorcycle wise, I think car wise maybe Mercedes beats them all?

Offline Torn

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #37 on: May 11, 2014, 11:17:54 pm »
Well the dealer I deal with for service I trust on ANYTHING and when I had my valves checked on my M109 I waited pass the recommended because the dealer said I could.....He said engines and valves just don't fail as much as these companies would have you believe. He has been in the business for almost 30 years. He said in recent years you just don't need to do valve checks as often as most folks believe on motorcycles.(yes I know some will say why take the chance!)  He said engines are just better now and if you don't beat the hell out of them and take care of them they will run forever. I waited till 35k on my 109 even though it was a fairly simple process and cheap compared to a lot of motorcycles out there to check them.  He said I had two that were a little out of spec but nothing even close to be bad or close to engine failure.  When I traded it in at 41k the dealership took it for a spin and gave it a good once over before giving me a trade in on it and said the bike was in great shape....no they didn't check the valves but the guy who rode it said it ran like a brand new 109...I will also be waiting pass the 15k to get my concours checked....I am willing to roll the dice based on the word of a  guy who has worked on motorcycles for almost as long as I have been alive has told me....and they do valve adjustments on c14s....and he said it would not be anywhere near the price it was to adjust them on the 109... :-\  600+ range  was what he told me....doesn't sound so bad now based on what guys are saying here....
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Offline Roger M.

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #38 on: May 11, 2014, 11:32:57 pm »
I waited until 24k and only 1 valve was in spec and that was on the tight side. Glad I did the job myself as it gave me the opportunity to learn a lot about the bike.


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Offline Oregonrider

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #39 on: May 12, 2014, 06:27:20 am »
...anyone else have milage reports vs  valve  adjustment intrevals for the C-14...?
Thanks in advance!
                                          ;)
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Offline 4Bikes

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #40 on: May 12, 2014, 11:28:12 am »
I checked mine early at 13,700 miles since it was the middle of winter, and I didn’t want to lose any riding time.  I found 2 exhaust valves and 4 intake valves out of spec and tight, and 9 other valves were on the tight side of the spec. 

Anybody saying wait until this mileage or that interval will only be speculating.  You only know where your valves stand once you actually check them. 

Silver 2011 C-14 and 2019 Versys 1000 SE LT+.  Previous rides: KZ-400, KZ-750, KZ-1000.  Keep the rubber side down.  Ride Fast......Live Slow......

Offline Brass

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #41 on: May 12, 2014, 10:56:02 pm »
I checked mine at 15k miles and if memory serves me right without looking back at my shim map 14 were out of spec on the tight side and the 2 remaining were just in spec on the tight side. Was able to get away with swapping 6 and having to replace 10 shims. Glad I didn't wait any longer than the recommended interval. Also took the time to replace the cam sensor Oring before it started leaking and sync the throttle bodies along with all the other stuff including coolant flush. I actually find it enjoyable to work on my bike almost as much as riding it
Shaun - Collegeville PA
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Offline CW

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #42 on: May 13, 2014, 01:54:21 am »
Hey, 4Bikes:
Your shim map looks like an Excel spread sheet. Would you possibly consider sharing the template?
Or let us know where you got it.

Thanks either way!
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Offline 4Bikes

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #43 on: May 13, 2014, 11:06:03 am »
Here is the link to the Shim Map posted by Fred that I used (reply #2).  I customized mine to the point that it may only make sense to me.  I would start with this map, and if it doesn’t work out, let me know, and I’ll send you my version.

http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php/topic,34643.msg342043.html#msg342043
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Offline OATSF14

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #44 on: May 13, 2014, 04:05:30 pm »
This thread has me worried.  Just picked up my '08 Connie 3 days ago.  30k miles on it.  Will be receiving the service records in another day or so.  Hope to God the valves have been adjusted.  have a few trips planned this summer/fall.  $800-$1000? Man o man.  I do believe the bike will be worth it.  So far I am impressed.
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Offline BDF

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #45 on: May 13, 2014, 04:26:16 pm »
Well, our work is done here :-) 

Not much to worry about really. Just a thought but rather than thinking about it as a 'valve adjust', perhaps think of it as a major maintenance cycle. It will save you a few bucks and be more efficient also; combine everything that can be done with the 'clothes' off the bike. A valve lash check / adjustment, spark plug change, Throttle Body synch., air filter change and whatever else you can sneak in there. The majority of the cost of a valve lash check is getting to the valves, which is the same labor as getting ready to do the T.B. synch so a reasonable dealer or mechanic will roll them together.

Then ride the pants off the bike with confidence that it is about as close to bullet- proof as any vehicle gets. If you have an extended warranty, that will tend to make your wallet bullet- proof too so enjoy.

Brian

This thread has me worried.  Just picked up my '08 Connie 3 days ago.  30k miles on it.  Will be receiving the service records in another day or so.  Hope to God the valves have been adjusted.  have a few trips planned this summer/fall.  $800-$1000? Man o man.  I do believe the bike will be worth it.  So far I am impressed.
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Offline Texas Concours14

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #46 on: May 13, 2014, 07:54:24 pm »
Quote
...anyone else have milage reports vs valve adjustment intrevals for the C-14...?

When I did the valve adjustment on my 2010 C14 at 28,500 miles, there were 5 out of spec on exhaust and 1 out of spec on intake (all tight).



2010 Concours 14

Offline slidebite

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #47 on: May 14, 2014, 12:46:12 am »
I'm at around 13,000 KMs and a leaky valve cover, so I'm checking and doing the valves if necessary at the same time. I'm just assembling the shims/gaskets right now.

I'm genuinely curious to see what they measure out at after so few KMs.

Offline OATSF14

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #48 on: May 14, 2014, 10:35:55 am »
All good.  Valves set <1000 miles ago.  My dealer charges $700 for valves, plugs and anything else needed while the bike is apart.  My 10R runs $500 for a tune so the difference is not that much.

 I think I will like this bike.  Largest I have ever owned.  Heavy feeling at times but I am sure I will become used to that.
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Offline Rembrant

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Re: Yet another Valve Adjust thread....
« Reply #49 on: May 14, 2014, 10:48:17 am »
Well, our work is done here :-) 

Not much to worry about really. Just a thought but rather than thinking about it as a 'valve adjust', perhaps think of it as a major maintenance cycle. It will save you a few bucks and be more efficient also; combine everything that can be done with the 'clothes' off the bike. A valve lash check / adjustment, spark plug change, Throttle Body synch., air filter change and whatever else you can sneak in there.

Truer words were never spoken. The biggest thing for me is that radiator...it make things so much easier if it's removed...and it takes all of what?...10 minutes to drain the system and remove the rad once you're in that far? And besides making the job easier...why not take the opportunity to back-flush the rad fins? I do it in a big laundry sink, and it's amazing how much dirt and debris that radiator holds in the fins.

For the big Connie that has trouble shedding heat...why not clean the radiator and add some Engine Ice coolant....you'll be glad you did. (Engine Ice is pet safe too, which is a big deal for me;).

When I do valve checks for others, I tell them that the rad has to come off, so they're paying for fresh fluid at the same time.

The body work is a pain in the butt....and it's a pain in the butt X2 on the second gen Connies, so take the opportunity to do everything you can while you're in there.

JMTCW,
Rem ;D

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