Concours Owners Group (COG) Forum

Concours 14 Discussion (C14 / ZG1400 / 1400GTR) => Concours 14 / ZG1400 General Chat and Tech => Topic started by: Steve in Sunny Fla on September 25, 2017, 11:35:39 pm

Title: You need to read this !
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on September 25, 2017, 11:35:39 pm
    I've been working on the question of driveline slack... why some folks report none and others are frought with it. To date there's been nothing concrete to point to, but I think I made a breakthrough today.

   I set up my datalogger and went riding today, specifically working on shifts and on/ off response. I have something i'm working on, so this was a good time to experiment. After the ride, I evaluated the running datalog at 1/10th speed, and found that coming from a closed throttle, I could see the rpms rise and intake vacuum drop, indicating an opening throttle, but there was zero movement registered from the tps.

  I've seen this before "back in the day" with toyota's. Basically the TPS is poorly adjusted, and doesn't respond for several degrees of throttle opening. This affects fueling, timing and secondary action... all the stuff that has to be spot on for best performance.

   Now the right answer for this is to recalibrate the TPS on the bike... but nobody is going to do that without the proper equipment (kds).

   If you think about it, throttle quality has long been connected to properly adjusted throttle cables. so I thought about for a bit, and decided to try REALLY tightening the pull cable. Not enough to bring the idle up, but close.

   I has a very small bit of play already. Less than you'ld want even on carbs. I adjusted that out completely, and then tightened the adjustment barrel one more complete turn.

   Wow, what a result that had. Even when I try to overthrottle I really can't. Just smooth shifts and smooth power. Understand my bike is already really smooth, so to have driveline lash issues I kind of have to jack around with the throttle to get it... but now I can't even do that.

  So if you've read this far, please go do the adjustment as I outlined above and report your findings. We may have something here.

 Steve

 

   
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: turbo-max on September 25, 2017, 11:54:43 pm
i dont have the ecu in my bike right now...oh wait...i have a c-10!  :))
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: Old Man on a Connie on September 26, 2017, 12:25:19 am
Have a weekender coming up. Noticed a lot on the last run up to Provo UT. Will do and report back.
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: gpd323 on September 26, 2017, 12:35:31 am
Will do Steve.
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: Rico on September 26, 2017, 01:01:58 am
Thanks Steve, will try this before the weekend!
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: Jeff Kerkow on September 26, 2017, 01:31:25 am
Did this awhile back and have posted it for others that have complained of jerky throttle.
Thanks Steve sometimes it's the simple things
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on September 26, 2017, 01:47:12 am
Did this awhile back and have posted it for others that have complained of jerky throttle.
Thanks Steve sometimes it's the simple things

did you just take out the slack or actually overtighten the barrel? I never saw that post, and the reason I made it's own thread was because I felt most wouldn't see my other post hidden in the other thread...like what apparently happened to yours. Steve
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: RoadKillHeaven on September 26, 2017, 02:55:41 am
Steve, Suzuki SV and DL suffer from sloppy throttle cables. There are numbers of posts on StromTrooper forums regarding TPS throttle cables tumultuous marriage.
The first thing I did when I got C14, I removed all slack from both cables to the  that elusive astronomical twilight zone you're talking about. I haven't had complaints regarding driveline slack-slop since.
But some habitues of this forum seem to know everything, hence absence of my humble findings regarding the matter.  ;)
Cheers...
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on September 26, 2017, 04:47:41 am
Hmmmm
Maybe that explains why I never complained about this issue, as 9 years ago, I removed all the slack, but still made sure I didn't get an accidental accell when turning the bars.... then I turned the idle knob up till it began to change rpm, and backed off a twitch or so...

I did find tho, prior to that, the dysfunctional lurch...and attributed it to cable "lag",
So in essence what you are saying is the TPS when sitting at idle, and barely turned when taking all slack out, places the TPS in a "usable range" to begin doing its job...? Correct?

Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on September 26, 2017, 05:02:39 am

So in essence what you are saying is the TPS when sitting at idle, and barely turned when taking all slack out, places the TPS in a "usable range" to begin doing its job...? Correct?

Basically, yes.

  BTW, we've known for some time about adjusting the throttle cables to get better throttle response. I think what's important here is that now we have the real actual cause of the "driveline lash" issue, that being the poorly adjusted TPS. This also explains why some bikes exhibit the lash whereas others do not.  Steve
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on September 26, 2017, 05:20:36 am

So in essence what you are saying is the TPS when sitting at idle, and barely turned when taking all slack out, places the TPS in a "usable range" to begin doing its job...? Correct?

Basically, yes.

  BTW, we've known for some time about adjusting the throttle cables to get better throttle response. I think what's important here is that now we have the real actual cause of the "driveline lash" issue, that being the poorly adjusted TPS. This also explains why some bikes exhibit the lash whereas others do not.  Steve

Yeah, I had a feeling the TPS is kinda like a crusty antique volumn control on a tv set made in the 50's and doesn't like the "ends of the range" positions as much as the mid position contact area of rotation... I'm thinking I'll pull mine out and "violate" the books warnings by disassebling it, and looking closely at the primitive guts inside...

This is why I kinda say to people that want "throttle by wire" as a techno improvement, that it just places another point of failure in the loop, on top of a part that ain't runctioning as well as it could, or should, from the factory... and rendering service into a parts replacement pit instead of an adjustment thing...
You know what I'm talking about,.so I don't have to expound on that much... :rotflmao: :great:
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: COGnosticator on September 26, 2017, 08:31:33 am
When I got my '13 in July i adjusted the throttle cable to where I had an RCH of movement, I will now cut that hair off   ;D and see how it feels

Thanks Steve for your continuing to try and make the C14 a shoodaben   :great:
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: JDSCO on September 26, 2017, 09:07:16 pm
   REALLY tightening the pull cable. Not enough to bring the idle up, but close. [/b]

   I has a very small bit of play already. Less than you'ld want even on carbs. I adjusted that out completely, and then tightened the adjustment barrel one more complete turn.

   Wow, what a result that had. Even when I try to overthrottle I really can't. Just smooth shifts and smooth power. Understand my bike is already really smooth, so to have driveline lash issues I kind of have to jack around with the throttle to get it... but now I can't even do that.

  So if you've read this far, please go do the adjustment as I outlined above and report your findings. We may have something here.

 Steve

I tried the accell cable, remove slack plus one turn as recommended but I was interested where the decel cable slack played into this.

Referencing the FSM for throttle freeplay, I started with the decel cable and removed slack plus 1 turn to see some effect.
I then adjusted the accel cable to remove slack plus 1 turn to see some effect.
Not sure where the limit is, I screwed out the decel cable to the point that the throttle was stiff. Screwed decel back in until throttle was free, again.
Repeated same for accel cable, to the point throttle was stiff (wouldn't spring return), screwed accel back in until throttle was free again.

There is no slack. Period.

Both accel and decel cables are out 6mm of exposed thread. About >2 full turns from oem adjustment. 8000miles since new.

The end result was noticeable when I test rode up and down a mountain pass for 34 miles. Smooth accel shifting and smooth and improved down-shifting. Smooth down shifting was observed on this 6-7% grade descent with no driveline clunk. Pretty smooth driveline.

My '08 C14 was a smoother running bike than my '16. I've noticed the driveline "clunk" on the '16 since new. It was not constant but I noticed it several times over 8000 miles.

Didn't I read in the "Driveline Lash" thread that I can recalibrate the throttle/tps by key-on, twist throttle open and close and key_off?
I completed this and had no better result.

Does the TPS need a simple recalibration (what would that be) after the cable tensioning?
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: RoadKillHeaven on September 26, 2017, 09:18:10 pm
TPS  doesn't require calibration. It is a rheostat it has to be properly adjusted to ZERO position in relation with throttle shaft.
Manufacturers have been known to "average" TPS installation. I haven't gotten into TPS adjustment, but Suzuki V twins (1 litre engines) greatly benefit from adjusting TPS.
Removing slack from deccel cable makes difference.

Cheers...
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on September 26, 2017, 10:44:58 pm
OMG, if I hear about that BS throttle calibration again I'm going to find the guy who started it and punch him in the head for stating a completely false service calibration.

   PLEASE - THERE IS NO ABILITY TO DO A THROTTLE CALIBRATION WITHOUT A KDS .

                                  IT'S FAKE NEWS !

Steve
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: strum on September 26, 2017, 10:54:34 pm


 
                                  IT'S FAKE NEWS !

Steve


 I think the Russians started it :-X
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: RoadKillHeaven on September 27, 2017, 12:19:00 am


 
                                  IT'S FAKE NEWS !

Steve


 I think the Russians started it :-X
But stupid Americans elected to believe in it.  :-X :-X :-X
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: gPink on September 27, 2017, 12:33:44 am


 
                                  IT'S FAKE NEWS !

Steve


 I think the Russians started it :-X
But stupid Americans elected to believe in it.  :-X :-X :-X
just won't quit will you
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: RoadKillHeaven on September 27, 2017, 12:39:10 am


 
                                  IT'S FAKE NEWS !

Steve


 I think the Russians started it :-X
But stupid Americans elected to believe in it.  :-X :-X :-X
But...I know, truth hurts...
just won't quit will you
I quit when I die... :-X :-X :-X
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: gPink on September 27, 2017, 12:44:22 am
troll
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: Old Man on a Connie on September 27, 2017, 01:09:33 am
Please don't interrupt a possible useful thread with political BS  :-X Self moderate, self control. Please.
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: strum on September 27, 2017, 06:07:48 pm
Please don't interrupt a possible useful thread with political BS  :-X Self moderate, self control. Please.

   Sorry guys this was a just a joke . didnt mean for it to go where it did. Ill stay on topic .
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: gpd323 on September 27, 2017, 09:31:45 pm
CURED!!!!

90% of my drive-line lash (slop) has been cured doing this to the throttle cable. I had posted on another thread I started about this very issue that made it almost impossible to shift up/down/low rpms/high rpms and keep it smooth. Now its so nice.

I'll PM you Steve in a bit.
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: Jerdurr on September 28, 2017, 01:52:33 pm
Steve, I've never fiddled with the throttle cable... However, I love learning new DIY stuff! How do I do the procedure you mention here? Also, I don't quite understand what you guys mean when you say "+ one turn"... ? Would you mind clarifying? Really appreciate your help and efforts in making C14 a better bike. Will probably be getting a Steve's EVO flash this winter :)
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: Deepsea on September 28, 2017, 07:19:36 pm
Loosen the two lock nuts on the throttle adjusters. Gently tighten the "Close" cable until there is no slack but not so tight as to lower the rpm. Tighten that lock nut with two wrenches. Next gently tighten the "Open" cable until there is no slack then tighten 1 more full turn of the adjusting barrel. If the rpm goes up back off just enough to not raise the rpm but no more. There should now be no play in the throttle but it MUST still return to idle when you let go on it's own spring power. If not then start over, you'll get there eventually.


Steve, if I botched this jump in and slap my wrist. :beerchug:
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: connie_rider on September 28, 2017, 09:16:46 pm
If I ever get thru polishing brass on this car, I'll be doing mine!   :-[

Ride safe, Ted

Brasso on, Brasso off, Brasso on, Brasso off, etc, etc, etc,,,,,,
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: rrsperry on September 29, 2017, 11:29:08 pm
This has been bothering me, especially on slow corners and parking lot type stuff. I'll get on it tomorrow. Steve does the evo flash affect this at all?
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: Rico on September 29, 2017, 11:59:08 pm
Tried it and seems to have gotten rid of 90% of the problem, but I only rode around my neighborhood. I'll do a little longer ride Sunday.
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: JimBob on September 30, 2017, 04:15:31 pm
Steve, I thought with "modern" digital EFI systems that (of necessity) recalibration of a TPS was done on every powerup - at least a zero-point reset (system reads TPS, and whatever position it's currently at becomes the zero point).


I put quotes on modern because I cut my teeth on Bosch *analog* EFI back in the 80's. Talk about a fun system to tinker with!.


Does that exist on the C14, and how does that "recalibration" compare to a full calibration with KDS?

Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on September 30, 2017, 06:07:32 pm
Steve, I thought with "modern" digital EFI systems that (of necessity) recalibration of a TPS was done on every powerup - at least a zero-point reset (system reads TPS, and whatever position it's currently at becomes the zero point).


I put quotes on modern because I cut my teeth on Bosch *analog* EFI back in the 80's. Talk about a fun system to tinker with!.


Does that exist on the C14, and how does that "recalibration" compare to a full calibration with KDS?

Probably applicable on fly by wire, but I doubt it on this system. The factory calibrates the TPS on the throttle body and it's held by tamper proof screws. I have recalled a sensor using my kds system a couple years ago because of a different issue, so I know it can be done. Interesingly if a sensor goes bad it's not sold separately, you have to buy an entire injection rack. Steve
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: PeteTN_zgtr on September 30, 2017, 06:25:23 pm
Tried it with no change. Still have the strong on-off binary throttle response. I had the cables adjusted to the point where the tube gets hard to turn.

I wonder if having a throttle tamer hampers doing this?  I'm thinking this because: 1) when adjusting the close-cable it never seems to bring the throttle to a particular closed position. The throttle grip just got harder to turn as I tightened the closing cable. Having the open cable side very loose and tightening the close side all the way still results in a throttle grip with play. And 2) with the close side cable loose or tight, tightening the open cable did a similar thing. Throttle got hard to turn, idle never increased no matter how much I adjusted the open cable tighter/longer. An analogy is that I got the impression I'm just adjusting two cables pulling on a pulley that's free to spin. Both cables get tight, pulley (throttle) gets hard to turn but no change down at the throttle shaft; spring on throttle shaft just keeps the shaft all the way against the "closed" stop.  Anyone else with a throttle tamer try it yet?  I'm guessing the stock throttle tube has a "closed stop" (stops rotation) and the tamer doesn't. I believe a closing stop is necessary to this working. That's my guess at this point.
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: gpd323 on September 30, 2017, 08:27:53 pm
I have the TT also, I just tightened the open throttle cable tight plus one turn. The closed cable is a bit loose like OEM.
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on September 30, 2017, 08:35:18 pm
Tried it with no change. Still have the strong on-off binary throttle response. I had the cables adjusted to the point where the tube gets hard to turn.

I wonder if having a throttle tamer hampers doing this?  I'm thinking this because: 1) when adjusting the close-cable it never seems to bring the throttle to a particular closed position. The throttle grip just got harder to turn as I tightened the closing cable. Having the open cable side very loose and tightening the close side all the way still results in a throttle grip with play. And 2) with the close side cable loose or tight, tightening the open cable did a similar thing. Throttle got hard to turn, idle never increased no matter how much I adjusted the open cable tighter/longer. An analogy is that I got the impression I'm just adjusting two cables pulling on a pulley that's free to spin. Both cables get tight, pulley (throttle) gets hard to turn but no change down at the throttle shaft; spring on throttle shaft just keeps the shaft all the way against the "closed" stop.  Anyone else with a throttle tamer try it yet?  I'm guessing the stock throttle tube has a "closed stop" (stops rotation) and the tamer doesn't. I believe a closing stop is necessary to this working. That's my guess at this point.

Is your ecu still stock? Steve
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: strum on September 30, 2017, 09:26:48 pm
The TT does have a positive stop and I can raise my idle by turning the pull adjuster. 
 Try getting plenty of slack in the push/close cable and then adjusting the pull side until the idle starts to raise then back off just enough that you dont get any idle change by turning the handlebars . Make sure the bike is warmed up well first.
  One this subject i remember when bikes only had one cable.
  The push or close cable was added as a safety so that if the spring broke or came off you could close the throttle .
   A lot of guys would run with out it. So unless something is different on the modern throttle mechanics I see no benefit to not having slack in that one.
   I think the pull one is what Steve is talking about mostly. If In wrong here Steve please chime in . I dont need to confuse anything here.
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: Deepsea on September 30, 2017, 11:59:54 pm
I also have the TT and have been able to adjust the cables as discussed without problem.


Back in the days of only one cable the return spring was Strong. We used to put in a device called "Twist Assist" It was a spring that went inside the handle bar and had a bolt that extended through the grip. You could preload it to counter the return spring. Wish they were still available.
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on October 01, 2017, 12:36:56 am
I also have the TT and have been able to adjust the cables as discussed without problem.


Back in the days of only one cable the return spring was Strong. We used to put in a device called "Twist Assist" It was a spring that went inside the handle bar and had a bolt that extended through the grip. You could preload it to counter the return spring. Wish they were still available.

  when I was in my 20's I build a suzuki gs1000 into an 1176... megacycle cams, kerker header, port / polish / big valves and springs, and 36mm cv carbs (I've always liked cv's) but the carbs only had one cable. One day this teenage kid was out in front of my house popping wheelies on a clapped out dirt bike. I thought "I'll show him how to do a wheelie" so I pulled my bike out of the shop, rode into the street, and started into a full lock turn at idle, just trying to get the bike warmed up. Well I guess the throttle cable hung on something, and the bike went to about 10,000 rpm in a split second, at full lock. It spun all the way around the front end and SLAMMED me to the ground. Took a big chunk out of my elbow... a week before bow season. I took alot of flack from that about the guys I hunted with not to be a girl about it. Right, easy for you to say  ::) .  I left on my first trip when I could pull my bow exactly 1 time. Still have the scar on my elbow from that one... and I never have another bike with just one cable - ever  :-[  Steve
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: PeteTN_zgtr on October 01, 2017, 12:43:25 am
OK, thanks for the replies. Maybe I'm getting the push/close cable too tight although I think I tried it loose but don't remember completely. I'll try it again.   

Steve AFAIK the ECU is stock.  It's an 08 I bought with 20K miles about 4 years ago.  Runs fine other than the typical on/off throttle. Average about 42mpg.

thanks again
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on October 01, 2017, 12:56:38 am


Steve AFAIK the ECU is stock. 


That explains some stuff. I don't think guys with stock ecu's will benefit as much. Steve
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: Deepsea on October 01, 2017, 03:14:23 am
when I was in my 20's I build a suzuki gs1000 into an 1176...   :-[  Steve


Giving away you age group Steve :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
20's and a GS1000 hmm. In my 20's I bought a Spankin New Snorton Norton 750 Commando and immediately installed the Dunstall 810 kit with a Branch Head and magneto ignition. It had R/H shift.
 
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: PeteTN_zgtr on October 01, 2017, 04:09:36 pm


Steve AFAIK the ECU is stock. 


That explains some stuff. I don't think guys with stock ecu's will benefit as much. Steve

That's probably true but we don't know yet how it will respond. My throttle is as I described. No return stop at the tube and there has to be one for the pull/open cable to start turning the throttle body shaft as it's adjusted tighter. Otherwise the cables are just moving the tube around on the bar. Nothing to do with the tamer either. It's not much different than the stock throttle tube other than radius. There's no such thing as adjusting my pull/open cable tighter and having the idle start to come up. The tube just turns and eventually pulls on the push/close cable as they get tight. I took it apart and looked.

I can probably add a stop with a set screw or something. Be interesting if anyone else's bike is the same.  This is an 08 ABS.

Also be interesting for others to state if their ECU is stock or not.
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: Daytona_Mike on October 01, 2017, 04:14:32 pm
I have an 08 with ABS.  No amount of cable adjustment would take the 'abrupt transitions' out my throttle control. It was very bad.
Once Steve flashed my ECU problem solved. Super smooth transitions.Make sure someone did not already remove the secondary throttle plates. That could also be your problem.
If they are missing you need to do two things:  Reinstall the secondaries and get that ECU reflashed by Steve
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: strum on October 01, 2017, 04:45:14 pm


 It's not much different than the stock throttle tube other than radius. There's no such thing as adjusting my pull/open cable tighter and having the idle start to come up. The tube just turns and eventually pulls on the push/close cable as they get tight. I took it apart and looked.




somtingwong!!   
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: PeteTN_zgtr on October 01, 2017, 07:23:34 pm
I have an 08 with ABS.  No amount of cable adjustment would take the 'abrupt transitions' out my throttle control. It was very bad.
Once Steve flashed my ECU problem solved. Super smooth transitions.Make sure someone did not already remove the secondary throttle plates. That could also be your problem.
If they are missing you need to do two things:  Reinstall the secondaries and get that ECU reflashed by Steve

Mike, I'm not aware that a PO took out the secondaries but I'm not certain. Yes I need Steve's flash. I was planning on doing some other things first. I was hoping this trick of just opening the throttles a hair to get the TPS going would make an improvement.



somtingwong!!   

I don't know if anythings wrong. There's just no stop. There's a throttle tube with tube/cable cam part inside a semi-circular housing.  The close-cable pulling on the throttle body shaft is the 'close stop'.  If other's have a 'close stop' in the tube assembly  (cable cam hits some kind of boss inside the semi-circular housing)  then Kawi changed the housing part at some time.
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: strum on October 01, 2017, 08:01:13 pm
Maybe im missing something here but my TT hits a "stop" it cant go any further fully closed.
  If you unhook the cables there is a positive stop or a least mine has one. It wont just spin all the way around.
  It is possible that you installed the TT in a manner that the close cable has it off the stop and then you adjusted the open cable to that?
 If so then I can see the cables pulling on one another as you described?
 I think we got off subject here but I still say somtingwong man.
 If you pull it back apart and find this to be so start a new topic so we are not hijacking this one.
 
 
 
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: PeteTN_zgtr on October 03, 2017, 11:49:25 pm
Strum thanks for the suggestions.  I didn't take it apart again but there is no stop within the range of the cable adjustments. Something must be different.  Yeah I won't belabor this point on this thread anymore.

I would like to hear others experience with Steve's suggestion.

Steve not sure if you did this but I would be curious what your data-logger readings are after your cable adjustment.

thanks guys
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on October 04, 2017, 12:38:18 am


Steve not sure if you did this but I would be curious what your data-logger readings are after your cable adjustment.


 

I'll probably do that tomorrow - steve
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: Dirtwiz on October 04, 2017, 01:23:14 am
I did the throttle cable adjustments yesterday and rode it 240 miles today. I have the EVO flash and was perfectly happy with the throttle response both off and on prior to the adjustment. It did have a fair amount of slop in the opening of the throttle ( maybe 1/4") but I was able to adjust that out of it with the adjustment process. I'm not sure if my brain was just compensating for the slack in the cable or not but it was not a problem for me....the new adjustment with no slack at all is also not really an improvement since it seemed perfectly smooth to me before and it still is. After my ride today I do prefer the feel of "no slack" if for no other reason than it takes less turning of the throttle for the same amount of fuel and its easier on the wrist. Either way your brain has to help your hand control your throttle with a fairly light touch in order to be smooth but with the flash it is kind of like cheating.
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: fordtruck on October 08, 2017, 01:58:53 am
I did this to my 09 today.  I have the decel flash which helped a lot, but it still wasn't as smooth as I'd like.  My main problem was getting back on the throttle after slowing down.  It would hesitate and then jerk.  After adjusting the throttle cables this morning, I rode for about 100 miles.  It really does help.  Steve, thanks for taking the time to come up with this.
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: Old Man on a Connie on October 08, 2017, 02:50:20 am
Just did 600 miles. Feels sweet. Thanks Again Steve! Now, about that right side hip pain after the 500 mile mark???????? :)) :)) :)) :))
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: Grant on October 08, 2017, 12:11:36 pm
If I ever get thru polishing brass on this car, I'll be doing mine!   :-[

Ride safe, Ted

Brasso on, Brasso off, Brasso on, Brasso off, etc, etc, etc,,,,,,

I will be trying this as well, but Ted my curiosity is now killing me. Ted do you own a brass ara car, what is this car with all the brass you speak of????
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: Rico on October 08, 2017, 03:42:39 pm
Did it a couple days ago, and it felt pretty good riding around my neighborhood. Took a longer ride today and had to stop and readjust in the middle of no-where. Feels a lot better, but not perfect. So close tho. The bike does have a ton of miles, so I'm wondering, how do I know when the throttle cables need replacing?
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: Jorge on October 08, 2017, 08:10:15 pm
Update... sorry it's been so long - lots of stuff going on and have been on the forum little lately.
C10              C14        Submitter
-------------------------------------
                     5"          gpd323
                     2.5"       khager01
3"                               Pbfoot
                     3.75"     Jorge
                     4           Smithr1
                     4.25       PeteTN_zgtr
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: connie_rider on October 25, 2017, 05:11:34 pm
I will be trying this as well, but Ted my curiosity is now killing me. Ted do you own a brass ara car, what is this car with all the brass you speak of????

1912 Model T Ford
The T Tour is over and I have now done a bike ride, with slack measuring, and *throttle adjusting.

C10              C14        Submitter
-------------------------------------
                     5"          gpd323
                     2.5"       khager01
3"                               Pbfoot
                     3.75"     Jorge
                     4           Smithr1
                     4.25       PeteTN_zgtr
                     4.44       Connie_Rider

*I adjusted my throttle as Steve suggested and it definitely improved things  :great:, but I still have a clunk.
I think my clunk is caused by excessive drive line slack, and may be more noticeable because of the riding style we use.
  ie; We do not down shift to a low gear and do a hard accell out of a curve. (2nd or 3rd)
       We cruise in 6th, downshift "1"-2 gears, coast down into the curve at about 60, and accell out of the curve in that
         higher gear. (normally 5th)    I think the higher gear makes the clunk more noticeable.
           Is anyone else using this procedure in the curves?

NOTE: *After adjusting my cable as suggested, I noted the improvement  :great:, and then I intentionally tightened my throttle
             cable in stages. {to see what would happen}.
          ie; I tightened it in stages, until I got an RPM increase when moving the bars.
             "It did not help", so I returned the cable adjustment to the suggested setting.

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: gpd323 on October 25, 2017, 10:11:32 pm
Thanks for all the input and info. Tightening mine made a significant difference in the drive line slop. I hope Steve does some more tweaking to his flash to mute some of the throttle tip in jerkiness. I know he has been working on this.

Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on October 25, 2017, 10:45:52 pm
Guys

Please understand the difference between "driveline slop" and "throttle slop"..
With all due respect, this thread was and became an ofshoot of a viable thread about true "drive line slop".. which is rear wheel rotation mechanically controlled by the interface of the driving gears...

So, let's stay on track, they truely differ.
Throttle control "lag / responce" is the subject in this thread..
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: Old Man on a Connie on October 25, 2017, 11:27:57 pm
Getting out of a corner in 5th Ted? We need to talk.  ;) Here's a story. Did my cable adjustment and rode to the Wild Wasatch Rally and the AZ M&E and it felt great! Was set up to run to Kernville CA. Trash packed and geared up ready to roll out of the garagio fired the 14 Hunney and gave a rev. She didn't drop right back to idle. WTH?????????? Synapses firing, what was the last change? Cable adjust. broke out the wrenches and loosened the return. Rev, even worse  :38:. loosen more and throttle hung wide open! Woke some neighbors with that. Grabbed the go stick and manually returned to idle.  :c002: Found out my throttle lock was dragging. Wanted to get OTR so opened that up and rode the weekend w/o the proper adjustment. Neck snapping. All is good now and the 1st thing I shall check first is throttle lock adjustment. I sacrifice my stoopidity for your benefit. I'm a giver like that  :beerchug: :)
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: connie_rider on October 26, 2017, 04:44:05 pm
MOB, I think everyone knows the difference.
The suggestion to adjust the cable slop was made to make the driveline slop less noticeable.
  {The adjustment in the cable slop helps align the TPS}. {See note #1}

Old Guy, yes I admit we were in 5th a lot. {We were on a leisurely ride}, and using higher gears.
Posted max speed was 55, posted curve speeds were normally 30, 35, 40, or 45.
We were maintaining about 65 thru the curves, and cruising around 65/70.
  (Smooth in / smooth out, and avoids speeding tickets)

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: You need to read this !
Post by: Bigfoot_16 on November 07, 2017, 08:41:45 pm
Steve, I know you really get tired of hearing this, but you're a genius! I made the adjustment to my bike this afternoon and noticed a very nice improvement. My cable was within the specs that the manual calls out, but not tight enough to prevent the slop. It's a very nice, noticeable improvement. Thanks again, big guy!