Author Topic: Zero electrical power  (Read 884 times)

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Offline Fox

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Zero electrical power
« on: January 16, 2019, 03:42:51 pm »
So in the process of trying to resurrect this 09 concours I hooked up a known new battery and get zero power. Not even a spark when connecting the positive cable. Checked the fuse at the relay and it looks good. Any other obvious places to look before I break out the electrical diagram. And a multimeter in a a few days?

Offline connie_rider

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Re: Zero electrical power
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2019, 04:57:15 pm »
Yupp. Go to the other end of the negative/ground cable and look for corrosion.

Ride safe, Ted
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Offline Sailor Rich

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Re: Zero electrical power
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2019, 05:15:25 pm »
Looks good? Or it tested good?

Offline Gsled

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Re: Zero electrical power
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2019, 05:18:38 pm »
 " Not even a spark when I hook up the positive cable"
 You NEVER NEVER want a spark when hooking up the positive cable, especially on computerized vehicles. The ground wire is the first off, last on! Transistors do not like the high amplitude hit from that spark where as the battery will absorb it when on the ground side.

Offline TimR

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Re: Zero electrical power
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2019, 10:29:57 pm »
I don't recall much sparking when I replaced the battery in my 09. I also have the red flashing dash light turned off.
Blue 1975 Z1B 900, Red 09 C14     I might not be perfect but at least I don't ride a Suzuki

Offline Craigmri

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Re: Zero electrical power
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2019, 12:46:09 am »
I don't recall much sparking when I replaced the battery in my 09. I also have the red flashing dash light turned off.

In fear of getting the  obligatory "Read the Phaaaqing Manual".....How do you turn off the flashing red dash light?

Craig

Offline connie_rider

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Re: Zero electrical power
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2019, 03:17:08 pm »
I hope you get another answer, but,,, as far as I know, you can't turn it off.
   {I even went to Kawasaki and asked them when I bought mine}.
          It will go off after a period of time.

Ignore it.  It serves a useful purpose.   
    When blinking, it appears that you have an alarm on the bike.

Ride safe, Ted
« Last Edit: January 17, 2019, 08:25:20 pm by connie_rider »
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Offline Just Cliff

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Re: Zero electrical power
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2019, 03:28:47 pm »
I hope you get another answer, but,,, as far as I know, you can't turn it off.
 
Ride safe, Ted

It can be turned off, I did it one time accidently & have no idea how. Then some months later while having the battery disconnected it came back. I've read somewhere how, I just don't know where.  :-[
Cliff
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Offline TimR

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Re: Zero electrical power
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2019, 04:37:34 pm »
I don't recall much sparking when I replaced the battery in my 09. I also have the red flashing dash light turned off.

In fear of getting the  obligatory "Read the Phaaaqing Manual".....How do you turn off the flashing red dash light?

Craig

Turn the bike off and push both dash buttons on the dash at the same for 2 seconds within 20 seconds after turning the bike off. To turn it back on same drill.
Blue 1975 Z1B 900, Red 09 C14     I might not be perfect but at least I don't ride a Suzuki

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Zero electrical power
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2019, 07:44:29 pm »
I don't recall much sparking when I replaced the battery in my 09. I also have the red flashing dash light turned off.

In fear of getting the  obligatory "Read the Phaaaqing Manual".....How do you turn off the flashing red dash light?

Craig

Turn the bike off and push both dash buttons on the dash at the same for 2 seconds within 20 seconds after turning the bike off. To turn it back on same drill.

yep... it's in the ------- manual..... :rotflmao:
and you don't have to "turn it back on" it does that the next time you start the bike... automaticaly...
but it's only a mini LED, and runs for 30 hours after shutting the bike off... the drain on the battery is like... well, like on a digital watch...after all.

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Offline Craigmri

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Re: Zero electrical power
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2019, 08:01:18 pm »
I don't recall much sparking when I replaced the battery in my 09. I also have the red flashing dash light turned off.

In fear of getting the  obligatory "Read the Phaaaqing Manual".....How do you turn off the flashing red dash light?

Craig

Thanks Tim and Blues!!   :))

Craig

Turn the bike off and push both dash buttons on the dash at the same for 2 seconds within 20 seconds after turning the bike off. To turn it back on same drill.

Thanks Tim and Blues!!   :))

Craig

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Zero electrical power
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2019, 09:11:14 pm »
Yupp. Go to the other end of the negative/ground cable and look for corrosion.

Ride safe, Ted

 gimme a $ for everytime I've heard "looks good. it's clean and tight", and I could buy a new BMW.... :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :)

there is no "look" involved, it's a physical remove, abrasively clean, and reattach of the connection points. you can do it blind, and in some cases that would be the better choice... because people think "look" means "seeing" an invisible resistive coating.. which cannot be "seen".

carry on.. I'm just sittin' around and pokin' fun now. :truce:
oh, and even with a brand new battery, fully charged on a manual charger prior to install, and all the connection points Mechanically cleaned and free of any invisible oxide/resistive layers.... I've never seen a spark....mmmmkay..... :-X
3v to run the clock, with the ignition off, doesn't make a spark... just saying. ::)


spark on sparkey... :great: :great: :great: :great: :great:

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Offline Fox

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Re: Zero electrical power
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2019, 10:10:05 pm »
Yupp. Go to the other end of the negative/ground cable and look for corrosion.

Ride safe, Ted

 gimme a $ for everytime I've heard "looks good. it's clean and tight", and I could buy a new BMW.... :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :)

there is no "look" involved, it's a physical remove, abrasively clean, and reattach of the connection points. you can do it blind, and in some cases that would be the better choice... because people think "look" means "seeing" an invisible resistive coating.. which cannot be "seen".

carry on.. I'm just sittin' around and pokin' fun now. :truce:
oh, and even with a brand new battery, fully charged on a manual charger prior to install, and all the connection points Mechanically cleaned and free of any invisible oxide/resistive layers.... I've never seen a spark....mmmmkay..... :-X
3v to run the clock, with the ignition off, doesn't make a spark... just saying. ::)


spark on sparkey... :great: :great: :great: :great: :great:

just generally every time i've hooked up a battery there is a small zap of spark when connecting the last wire. but I disconnected the ground wire while searching this bike over thought i put it back where i found it, however considering the main fuse and plug was disconnected from the relay god only knows if it was put back right by the previous idiots.

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Zero electrical power
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2019, 10:17:45 pm »
hmmm
 :??:

continue....


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Offline RWulf

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Re: Zero electrical power
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2019, 03:06:51 pm »
MOB is right, NO Spark is a good spark.
A spark should tell you there is a current flow.
If everything is off the keep alive current should be so low you can't see a spark.
Spark is not good!

Offline TimR

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Re: Zero electrical power
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2019, 05:31:14 pm »
MOB said:
Quote
yep... it's in the ------- manual..... :rotflmao:
and you don't have to "turn it back on" it does that the next time you start the bike... automaticaly...
The Owners Manual on page 51 for my 09 doesn't say any thing about automatically going back to default when starting the bike. It will go back to default if a battery is connected. (the way I read it is if there is a battery change or the battery is disconnected for some reason)  I have had the flashing light turned off for several years without having to turn it off every time I start the bike.  I have turned off the flashing light on some others Gen 2 C14's and to my knowledge they haven't had the light return to the flashing mode.   

The manual also states you can't turn the flashing light off if there is a fuel injection fault.  Now, when SteveJ  was out here we got together for lunch and I left the stove key turned on. When I went to start the bike after lunch the battery was dead. I used a jump box to get it started and later after charging the battery back up, I had to turn the flashing light back off again. We had lunch about 3 blks from the house.
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Offline TimR

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Re: Zero electrical power
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2019, 05:56:23 pm »
I wonder if the tip over switch is at fault? To me resurrect means it was crashed.
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Zero electrical power
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2019, 08:27:04 pm »
I wonder if the tip over switch is at fault? To me resurrect means it was crashed.

wouldn't hurt to unplug it and replug it back in, strange things do happen....
The tip switch supposedly "resets" upon righting the bike tho, when I tipped mine over in the garage, and got it vertical again, I had no issue starting mine. But when it fell, it wasn't "running" at the time.
Also, unpluging and repluging in all the harness points up front, around the relays, and big bundles may provide some semblences of corrective action, could just be som oxidation on one connector in one plug....

it's free, so might as well do it.

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Offline Fox

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Re: Zero electrical power
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2019, 08:49:31 pm »
Ok so since I was messing with it today in the warehouse that was fairly dark I did notice the slightest arc when slowly bringing the terminal into contact with the battery. Probably about what you get from a 9v battery to the tongue type. Also heard something click up towards the gauges.


I haven't taken the bike to a dealer yet to have the new ECU kipass ECU and ignition switch flashed to the bike. Trying to get it all assembled and checked out before possibly wasting money.

What should I get electrical power wise with the stove key locked in the igniton and a new kipass ECU hooked up? I'd imagine that I might get dash lights or something maybe a few clicking relays but I'm getting nada other than the occasional click of something near the gauges when I connect power but it's not every time...

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Zero electrical power
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2019, 09:40:12 pm »
I take it you installed the new switch assembly already?
what you may be hearing is that switches solenoid cycling on and energizing when attaching the battery cable...
I'm also leary about the comment you made about the harness to the main relay being removed/installed... and why that was done.. I can only surmise that with the old switch, which was buggered up, the main power was on all the time, and that harness was removed to cut the power... correct?
I'm gonna suggest you get in touch with SISF, Shouldabeen Steve, and discuss a bit about the ECU, before even thinking of installing it, and connecting the battery...
Please.
He's in tune on ECU pulling and power up, and I am afraid to tell you to Install the NEW ecu, prior to speaking with him, or a dealer, that will be doing the KDS3 serialization of the components install... just don't want to see you damage that new ECU, or the New/Used switch...
During the KDS process' various power up/power down/disconnect steps when new components are getting installed and registered... so don't be hasty in trying to Install "everything at once".

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Offline Fox

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Re: Zero electrical power
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2019, 02:56:40 am »
yea installed the ecu and switch in the hopes that it would release the stove knob so i could fully install the switch and button it back up to be trailered to the dealer. Finally found a local one that had done it before.

checked the ground and tried pluging and unplugging as many connectors as i could find. I'm starting to think theres a wire that's been cut somewhere that i have yet to find.


What should happen once the battery is connected and the stove knob is in what I'm assuming is the off position, and with the switch gear turned to "run"? I assume even with an unregistered ecu i should get something pop up on the dash?

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Zero electrical power
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2019, 07:37:51 pm »
I don't think you will have any success in anything lighting up, accept the red immobilizer lamp.
In order to spin the switch to "run", it has to be pressed down, activating the circuit to "recognize" the switch/fob combo before it "times out", which it won't do, as the switch (new one) has not been "paired/input" into the sytem via KDS, thus it may not be recognized...
I think the progresssion is gonna be fit full, as the ECU and fobs, need to be initiated via KDS, then a passive chip in FOB is used to "initiate" the switch, which then gets a "temporary" recognition, to be paired (and made Permanent).

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Offline TimR

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Re: Zero electrical power
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2019, 10:14:06 pm »
Pretty much have to agree with MOB You won't get the thing to light up until you have a working FOB.
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Offline Fox

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Re: Zero electrical power
« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2019, 03:42:15 am »
I'm not getting the immobilizer lamp Either.

Guess I'll reassemble and just pray all it well enough for the dealer to do their work.

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Zero electrical power
« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2019, 09:21:06 pm »
check the white wire, on the 2 pin plug of that harness that the ignition lock wires plug into... that wire should have (+) positive,12v on it, its tied directly thru the fuse at the starter relay, to the + terminal of the battery. The 8 pin plug, also on the bike side of the harness, should have 12v on that white wire also. Make sure to unplug both of those from the switch, before checking for 12v+, as an issue within the switch itself may mask itself.

Also check fuse #1 and #2 in the #2 fusebox, those also should have +12v on them, they are the fan fuse(#1), and the ECU fuse(#2) and both are 15A fuses.
You mentioned that some connections/wires at that main relay were disconnected at some point, make sure they are all connected....
Fuses #3 and #4 also (same fusebox) should have 12v, as those are actually connected to that relay's Positive Input cable, prior to the fuse.

Also, in Fusebox #1, fuses #5 and #6, should have 12v on them...

and finally, there is a white wire on one of the plugs at the Rectifier/regulator unit, unplug that plug, and check that harness for 12v there also.

If you find any or all of these lacking, it's related to the main relay wiring/or fuse, and that relay MAY have internal shorts or issues. If so, disconnect the battery right away, and further explore. Again, this all hinges on having a fully charged GOOD battery, and clean scrubbed terminals and cable ends.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2019, 09:32:45 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

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and if you are gonna call me names... it's MR. Analdweeb if you please...