Author Topic: ZX-14 or ZX-14R Exhaust for a C-14? (Read 25889 times)

connie_rider · « **Reply #175 on:** December 29, 2017, 12:46:23 am »

Other than finding a used 4 into 1 Muzzy, these are the options I know of, that are relatively EZ and inexpensive...

2006 - 2007 ZX-14 header. (has 2" ports and "no" Cat) {Probably the best option}
Block left port, build spacer that increases OD of header to 2 1/8" OD., install your existing slip-on on the right. {ZG Slip-on is 2 1/8" ID.}
Done........

2008 - 2011 ZX-14 header. (has 2 1/8" ports and Cat) {Probably the next best option}
Block left port, install your existing slip-on on the right. {ZG Slip-on is 2 1/8" ID.}
Done........

2012 - 2014 ZX-14R header. (has 2 1/8" ports and "No" Cat)
Block left port, install your existing slip-on on the right. {ZG Slip-on is 2 1/8" ID.}
Done........

2015 - 2017 ZX-14R header. (has 2 1/8" ports and Cat)
Block left port, install your existing slip-on on the right. {ZG Slip-on is 2 1/8" ID.}
Done........

Will any of these improve Torque/HP?
I'm NOT sure.
But, each will; Replace our stock header and allow us to run the slip-on's we already have.

Ride safe, Ted

Grant · « **Reply #176 on:** December 29, 2017, 05:38:33 am »

OMG where have I been there is a crap load of reading here for me to catch up on. Dam Ted how did I miss this???

connie_rider · « **Reply #177 on:** December 29, 2017, 05:32:23 pm »

Grant, do a quick read; The discussion started with questions about the 2012 ZX-14R exhaust I purchased.
Later it moved thru various idea's I was contemplating.
Lots of folks chipped in with their thoughts...

Pretty interesting reading if your a mad scientist..

I later opted to use a 2007 ZX-14 header {as the head pipes and exhaust ports are smaller, plus the head pipes are
paired like a Concours}.
ZX-14R; Cyls 1/2 and 3/4 are paired.
ZG and ZX-14; Cyls 1/4 and 2/3 are paired.

NOTE:
The Concours Exhaust is basically a "Tri Y". {4 - 2 - 1} {*because of the Cat design in the collector}
{at the end of the collector it has 1 ea (2 1/8" OD) exhaust port}.
**I think the Cat, keeps the cylinder flows paired until they reach the end of the collector.

The 2007 ZX-14 Exhaust is a modified "Tri Y". {4 - 2 - 1 - 2} (*because it's collector has a dividing plate inside}
{at the end of the collector it has 2 ea. (2" OD) exhaust ports}.
**I think the plate keeps the cylinder flows paired until they reach the end of the collector.

(Over engineering it further)
I'm planning to use the 2007 ZX-14 headers with a valve installed in the left exhaust pipe {to make the left exhaust flow variable}...

Ride safe, Ted

gPink · « **Reply #178 on:** January 20, 2018, 04:56:17 pm »

Ted, here's a cheap dump gate... sorry about the long address... https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Kylin-Store-3-Electric-Stainless-Exhaust-Cutout-Cut-Out-Dump-Valve-switch-without-Remote-control/32243660320.html?src=google&albslr=201540638&isdl=y&aff_short_key=UneMJZVf&source=%7Bifdyn:dyn%7D%7Bifpla:pla%7D%7Bifdbm:DBM&albch=DID%7D&src=google&albch=shopping&acnt=708-803-3821&isdl=y&albcp=653482935&albag=32646801963&slnk=&trgt=68684682745&plac=&crea=en32243660320&netw=g&device=c&mtctp=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIvvDz7Izn2AIV1rrACh2TOgs9EAQYBCABEgJEk_D_BwE

connie_rider · « **Reply #179 on:** January 20, 2018, 05:50:55 pm »

Thanks Gary. I considered an electric dump valve but wanted something to operate with the exhaust flow, not just open or closed.
You and I were talking about an EXUP system somewhere about the 3rd page of this discussion.
An EXUP is kinda/sorta what I'm working at..

I purchased a Stainless Steel valve some time ago.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vacuum-Activated-Exhaust-Cutout-2-51MM-Open-Style-Pressure-about-1-BAR/252934027007?epid=869869096&hash=item3ae40af6ff:g:yeoAAOSw~FJZFWG~

Since that time, I removed the vacuum mechanism, and machined and welded adapters to the valve.
{The adapters make installation between the header and the mid pipe EZ to do, and changes overall length only 2".}
I've purchased Muzzy Slip-on's, and built a muffler hanger for the left side of the bike.
Bouht gaskets, side stand, hardware, etc..

Headers;
I decided the ZX-14R headers were bad for a ZG-1400, and purchased early (non-cat) ZX-14 headers.
{ ZX-14R head pipes are too big, cylinder phasing of the head pipes is incorrect, Exhaust ports are 2 1/8"}
{Early ZX-14 headers have smaller head pipe diameters, correct cylinder phasing, and 2" exhaust ports}

I think everything is almost ready..

Right now, I'm waiting to see dyno plots/numbers on a ZX-14 header and slip-on's.
(Ivan is supposed to be doing dyno run's soon).

Ride safe, Ted

gPink · « **Reply #180 on:** January 20, 2018, 06:12:19 pm »

You mention exhaust flow controlled which would correlate with rpms and throttle position. Could you get Steve to tie it to the ecu to control a stepper motor like the secondary butterflies are controlled?

Grant · « **Reply #181 on:** January 20, 2018, 07:15:24 pm »

Quote from: gPink on January 20, 2018, 06:12:19 pm

You mention exhaust flow controlled which would correlate with rpms and throttle position. Could you get Steve to tie it to the ecu to control a stepper motor like the secondary butterflies are controlled?

Quote from: connie_rider on January 20, 2018, 05:50:55 pm

Thanks Gary. I considered an electric dump valve but wanted something to operate with the exhaust flow, not just open or closed.
You and I were talking about an EXUP system somewhere about the 3rd page of this discussion.
An EXUP is kinda/sorta what I'm working at..

I purchased a Stainless Steel valve some time ago.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vacuum-Activated-Exhaust-Cutout-2-51MM-Open-Style-Pressure-about-1-BAR/252934027007?epid=869869096&hash=item3ae40af6ff:g:yeoAAOSw~FJZFWG~

Since that time, I removed the vacuum mechanism, and machined and welded adapters to the valve.
{The adapters make installation between the header and the mid pipe EZ to do, and changes overall length only 2".}
I've purchased Muzzy Slip-on's, and built a muffler hanger for the left side of the bike.
Bouht gaskets, side stand, hardware, etc..

Headers;
I decided the ZX-14R headers were bad for a ZG-1400, and purchased early (non-cat) ZX-14 headers.
{ ZX-14R head pipes are too big, cylinder phasing of the head pipes is incorrect, Exhaust ports are 2 1/8"}
{Early ZX-14 headers have smaller head pipe diameters, correct cylinder phasing, and 2" exhaust ports}

I think everything is almost ready..

Right now, I'm waiting to see dyno plots/numbers on a ZX-14 header and slip-on's.
(Iam is supposed to be doing run's soon).

Ride safe, Ted

How about a vacuum sense turbo waste gate with a light weight spring? This would only allow exhaust to flow through the auxiliary exhaust when a predetermined back pressure was reached.

Grant · « **Reply #182 on:** January 20, 2018, 07:30:29 pm »

I am working on a compound diesel turbo setup right now where the high pressure turbo is a VVT and a waste gate would not typically be used. My idea is to have the waste gate installed before the high pressure turbo but dump back in before the atmospheric Turbo.
Otherwise when the little turbo is in danger of being over driven above the capabilities of the variable veins a small portion of exhaust will be routed around it but still fed through the larger Turbo and not be wasted.
I don't see why a wastegate could not be used in a non turbo exhaust to control Power Band in a system such as Ted is describing here the same way I am using it to get the Best of Both Worlds.

stephen_gayle · « **Reply #183 on:** January 20, 2018, 10:34:36 pm »

maybe a bit late....but. yes, put the header on....might want to change out spark plugs while you do this, easier access. I put header on 09 c14...caped left side and stayed with single pipe. made cap out of piece of exhaust pipe with cap welded on pipe...used local muffler shop for fab. I also used 'wrap exhaust tape' from local auto parts store since neither exhaust donut works from c14 or zx. hp at rear wheel remained in 150 range. the after market pipe/muffler set up perfect for center stand bumber. hope this helps. Stephen in cleveland

connie_rider · « **Reply #184 on:** January 21, 2018, 01:02:49 am »

Thanks Stephen... 150 HP range is a realistic number, and it's what I'm hoping for.
I would love to see any dyno plots you might have??
This project started with a ZX-14R header and 1 slip-on, later changed to a ZX-14 Header and 2 slip-on's (w/valve).
That led to idea of opening the left port "only" when I needed the extra exhaust flow...

Gary, a stepper motor and ECU control was discussed on page 1 -3 of this discussion.
Because of complexity, I opted to try a manual operation first.
{to see if controlling flow thru the left aside does anything} {ie; Dyno runs}
Most folks think it is a waste of time..... But, {because I'm hard headed} I'm still trying to get it built...

Grant your a lot more knowledgeable than I about operation of a waste gate etc.
I think my valve is basically a poor mans waste gate. {??}
NOTE: One {close} side of the valve will be drilled to lessen the surface area on that side.
Pressure/flow against the other {open} side of the valve will allow it to open.
{I think the differential pressure will do the work, because of the difference in surface area}
A weak spring will control the opening pressure / set point.
I hope........

Ride safe, Ted <Mad Scientist Grin>

connie_rider · « **Reply #185 on:** February 11, 2018, 10:50:15 pm »

We finally got a ZX-14 header plot to see.
Ivan recently tested a C-14 with ZX-14 header and developed a Flash to go with it.

http://forum.cog-online.org/ivan's-performance-products/2006-2007-zx14-header-tuned-and-tested/

Peak HP {w/flash} is shown at 159, and the mid range looks pretty good.
{for only $500+ more} An Akrapovic full system made 162 peak HP and {I think} had less low end power..

I already asked if he also had a plot of a ZX-14 header {without the flash} that we could see {for reference}...
I've been asking this exact question for 2 years. Still hoping for the plot from someone..

Ride safe, Ted

connie_rider · « **Reply #186 on:** May 17, 2018, 10:31:58 pm »

I got off my butt and started the header/valve install..
Today I installed the ZX-14 headers, back pressure control valve, ZX-14 side stand, and Muzzy Mufflers.

Still have some fabricating to do {to get the center Stand to work the way I want / etc} but at least I'm started...

Ride safe, Ted

Grant · « **Reply #187 on:** May 18, 2018, 01:52:05 am »

Quote from: connie_rider on May 17, 2018, 10:31:58 pm

I got off my butt and started the header/valve install..
Today I installed the ZX-14 headers, back pressure control valve, ZX-14 side stand, and Muzzy Mufflers.

Still have some fabricating to do {to get the canter Stand to work the way I want / etc} but at least I'm started...

Ride safe, Ted

Where is the like button...

ghostrider990 · « **Reply #188 on:** May 19, 2018, 12:27:46 am »

Quote from: Grant on May 18, 2018, 01:52:05 am

Quote from: connie_rider on May 17, 2018, 10:31:58 pm
I got off my butt and started the header/valve install..
Today I installed the ZX-14 headers, back pressure control valve, ZX-14 side stand, and Muzzy Mufflers.

Still have some fabricating to do {to get the canter Stand to work the way I want / etc} but at least I'm started...

Ride safe, Ted
Where is the like button...

Was that the like button for Ted's Butt??? $:-\$

He might ACTUALLY ride that bike, one day.

gr

LURCH · « **Reply #189 on:** May 19, 2018, 02:00:28 pm »

Watching and waiting for the center stand build. The center stand for the ZX-14 didn't work for me.

connie_rider · « **Reply #190 on:** May 19, 2018, 03:17:14 pm »

GR, I probably deserve that.
But it's more, He might ACTUALLY ~~ride~~ finish the install on that bike, ~~one~~ some day.

Fyi; This year, I've been to the Track Day in Florida, Wildflower event in Hunt Tx, Horseshoe Mountain event in Ark., multiple day rides with friends.
I'm going to the COG National in Kerrville in a couple of weeks, and then,,,
{Dat, da, da, daaaaa} I'm gonna Ride the Alp's event in Europe..
Wanna go with me???

Lurch: {If I ever get off this computer

} I'll modify/fabricate the foot for my center stand today.
Yesterday it dawned on me there is a semi simple way.
Last night, I cut the original foot off.
Today, I'll add a 1" drop down plate, and extend the original foot beyond the left mid pipe. {about 3" will be added}.
ie; There will be sort of a "Z" in the original foot...
Fingers crossed!

Ride safe, Ted

LURCH · « **Reply #191 on:** May 20, 2018, 10:34:22 am »

Wingedspirit · « **Reply #192 on:** May 20, 2018, 11:28:52 am »

Ted you're the man! Happy to see you're getting out there!

Finally got the engine for the racecar, so that's taking up my time now.

connie_rider · « **Reply #193 on:** May 20, 2018, 06:39:15 pm »

I fabricated the Center stand foot yesterday. Hope to weld it tomorrow.
So far, so good... {finger's crossed}

Ride safe, Ted

connie_rider · « **Reply #194 on:** May 26, 2018, 12:07:13 am »

Everything is assembled and fits ok.
A ZX-14 side stand base gave me the clearance I needed on the side stand.
The center stand Mod I mentioned earlier worked great..
Unfortunately the Back pressure Control valve didn't work. *&*%*&#%^ !!!
{I took it off for now to rethink how to make it operate.}

I used grant's idea and installed extensions. {where the mid pipes fit onto the header ports}
This mod worked with my valve install and seemed to give me some extra clearance.
I liked that, so for now I'll keep it that way.

I did a test ride yesterday and it definitely seems quicker.
But, it also seems to have lost some more low end torque than I hoped , and it is a heck of a lot louder..

Will ride it awhile and see if I get to like it...

NOTE: While on the test ride I discovered I forgot to hook up my right front blinker and my horns didn't work.
*&*%*&#%^ !!!

So, I pulled the right plastic {again} to hook up the wire and discovered my horn harness had some broken wires.
*&*%*&#%^ !!! again.. Fixed those today.
Since I have the horns off I ordered some Piaa's and will put everything back together when they arrive.

Ride safe, Ted

Turtle · « **Reply #195 on:** May 27, 2018, 12:05:08 pm »

Good thing you got this finished and beat the heat.

connie_rider · « **Reply #196 on:** May 27, 2018, 04:27:59 pm »

I planned ahead.
I kept the garage doors closed, opened the door to my house, and used a fan to blow air conditioned air into the attached garage.
95* outside, about 80* in the garage...

Ride safe, Ted

Bikejunkie1013 · « **Reply #197 on:** May 27, 2018, 05:53:15 pm »

I have 2 or 3 ZX14 headers, a Muzzy Left side muffler mount and a pair of used 2 Bros Carbon Fiber slip-ons.
I guess I will list them in C-14 classifieds..

ron203 · « **Reply #198 on:** May 28, 2018, 02:29:57 pm »

ron203 · « **Reply #199 on:** May 28, 2018, 02:30:50 pm »

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