Author Topic: 06' ZG1000 Running badly= Making me sad  (Read 729 times)

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Offline Trav

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06' ZG1000 Running badly= Making me sad
« on: September 06, 2018, 02:58:45 pm »
I would like some advice
I've had my concourse for 3 years now and have loved it every second
Got it with +/- 15,000 On the clock -> now at 30k

valve adjustment via steves instruction 4k ago
regular oil maintenance
Dynamic Sync carbs 3 weeks ago
Ran Strong up until a week ago

start it up and i just barely chugs and seems like it's misfiring
it will do this up to 4500 RPM then smooth out some

took the tank off and tried to re sync the carbs
weird thing is

When i take the tank off and petcock vaccuum line and hook my dyn sync tubes to it
it starts up and runs amazing like it used to
put the tank back on and rehook lines and it runs like crap..

no fuel starvation issue should be present because i unhooked the fuel line and left the petcock vacuum line on , turned it over and fuel came rushing out the unattached fuel line

I really really enjoy riding this machine and want her back up and going

I've had a series of older KZ's - 440ltd, 650b, 750twin, z900 and have extensive knowledge with mc maintainence

let me know what i need to do!

t

Offline Brooke_Benfield_OR

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Re: 06' ZG1000 Running badly= Making me sad
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2018, 04:27:56 pm »
Sounds like you may have a flooding issue and could be on your way to hydrolock. If true, you need to address this ASAP. There's plenty of material on this site to read on that topic.

Causes are a leaking petcock and/or carburetor float valve.



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Offline mnbikeguy

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Re: 06' ZG1000 Running badly= Making me sad
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2018, 06:53:46 pm »
Doesn't sound like hydro lock situation because petcock seems to work normally enough. Off without vacuum, on with vacuum.
That said, I'm wondering about that fuel petcock vacuum line since it seems to function poorly when it is connected and fine when replaced with the dyn sync tubes? If leaky could it restrict fuel flow enough to cause the chugging issue which I read as simulating an out of fuel condition? When over 4500 might there be sufficient vacuum to open fully and allow normal operation? Also might wonder about the float height but that seems unlikely.

Offline connie_rider

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Re: 06' ZG1000 Running badly= Making me sad
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2018, 07:15:53 pm »
There are several possibilities, but running fine while not hooked to the gas tank points 1 way.

Most probable is a float valve isn't sealing properly {and it's flooding when your hooked to the tank}..
    EZ way to check is pinch the fuel line while it's running bad, and see if it smooths out.
        If this happens, have the carbs done.

Ride safe, Ted
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Offline Bud

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Re: 06' ZG1000 Running badly= Making me sad
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2018, 08:58:43 pm »
Might want to pull the plugs out and take a look.  If you have a carb misbehaving, then one of the plugs should look different than the others.  Twist the caps on the plugs before you pull them.  Before you pull the plugs, blow some compressed air around the plugs to remove any grit that might fall into the cylinders after the plugs have been removed.  If it were me, I would post a pic of the plugs and let the smart fellers take a look and tell you what they think.  If you have issues posting a pic and can email or text a pic to me I'll do it for you.  Fill the picture frame with plug tips so they can be seen well.  One more thing.  Since you have the plugs out already, you might as well buy a new set of standard NGK's and install those.  Standard NGK's are cheap.  HTH

Offline esmoojee

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Re: 06' ZG1000 Running badly= Making me sad
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2018, 09:23:00 pm »
If it were me, I’d check all the vacuum hoses for leaks and the float issue.

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: 06' ZG1000 Running badly= Making me sad
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2018, 09:50:46 pm »
I would like some advice
I've had my concourse for 3 years now and have loved it every second
Got it with +/- 15,000 On the clock -> now at 30k

valve adjustment via steves instruction 4k ago
regular oil maintenance
Dynamic Sync carbs 3 weeks ago
Ran Strong up until a week ago


start it up and i just barely chugs and seems like it's misfiring
it will do this up to 4500 RPM then smooth out some


took the tank off and tried to re sync the carbs
weird thing is

When i take the tank off and petcock vaccuum line and hook my dyn sync tubes to it
it starts up and runs amazing like it used to
put the tank back on and rehook lines and it runs like crap..

no fuel starvation issue should be present because i unhooked the fuel line and left the petcock vacuum line on , turned it over and fuel came rushing out the unattached fuel line

I really really enjoy riding this machine and want her back up and going

I've had a series of older KZ's - 440ltd, 650b, 750twin, z900 and have extensive knowledge with mc maintainence

let me know what i need to do!

t

ok.
Analysts:

bike was great.
bike rode fine.
bike not running fine now.
bike sat, just prior...

took tank off...
checked synch...
put tank back on...
 bike runs like crap...


Tank off and back on, a couple times, stirs the crap from the bottom, and it hits the carbs... WATER.

Bike runs fine with tank off, during synch...

Bike running on an auxiliary fuel cell, or fuel holding container during synch?
Or even the original tank, set on something keeping the dreggs of the spooge in the tank from getting to the carbs?

Petcock seems to be functioning completely normally from test... I agree.

My guess.

remove the tank again, dump it out COMPLETELY, use a coathanger and an old tee shirt to reach down into the "wings" and mop up any water there... let it sit a couple hours, open, in the hot sun, with a rag over the open tank lid... or blow it out with compressed air...

Get a NEW gascan, fill it with FRESH GOOD FUEL... reinstall the fuel tank, but prior insure all the rubber hose lines are free of age cracks, and completly attached and sealing well... refill, and run the bike...


when reading the progression of events, which clearly have been documented, it leads to tank contamination, water, and resultant "it ran fine, and then it didn't run fine" syndrome... always comes around shortly after fueling up, and always makes people go WAAAAAAAAAAAASSSUUUUUUUppppppppp with this"?

feel free to peruse all the doom and gloom about Hydroloc, (it ain't hydro'd), Plugs and caps (if they were not touched, well.. they didn't do it), float valve seals and such...(again, something is blocking fuel flow thru a carb JET, not to the carb...water blocks jets... ), float heights...(if you didn't muck with the carbs, the floats didn't change on their own),
and carb 'flooding", (if you ain't smelling fuel, and it ain't leaking...I dunno...I'm crazy, this stuff just goes over my head sometimes.

the simple stuff, is usually the cause for a "ran fine, no doesn't" report.


oh, when you do dump, clean, refill, add a full bottle of IsoHeet... just for the sake of it works... then ride the full tank till empty..(you can add a full bottle, safely, to a full tank of gas... I've dumped in 2 bottles, in a heavily water laden 'half tank" of fuel, and ran it out, and never had an issue... I carry it always, on a C10 ride.)

by the way, I really want to commend Trav, for his very proper, and content correct posting, while asking for help. He really made it very easy to read, and analyze..
Soo many times there are big 'gaps' in peoples requests, and info, he has done a GREAT job, describing exactly what was taking place, and the steps he did during the 'need to find out' event... Kudo's to Trav, you did well... now, don't be freaked out and thinking you need to dump major $$ and time, it's looking like a simple "time spent", and easy fix... to restore this to happy riding mode.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2018, 10:08:22 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: 06' ZG1000 Running badly= Making me sad
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2018, 01:12:13 am »
 I dunno, I'm more along the lines of either a carb running a really high fuel level, or maybe the stranger than strange fuel being sucked down the vacuum hose to the petcock. it shouldn't happen - but it does.
Steve
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Offline Trav

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Re: 06' ZG1000 Running badly= Making me sad
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2018, 02:13:43 am »
i appreciate you guys !

I will pull the tank, replace my vaccuum lines with fresh (need to do anyway)
Replace older stiff fuel lines
Drain the tank and give her a slight sweep
pull the plugs and take pictures

If no avail , i will pull the carbs and send them off for a servicing
I rode this bike from Southern Indiana -> Tucson Arizona and back and it was the best 2 weeks on 2 wheels i've ever had




Offline Mettler1

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Re: 06' ZG1000 Running badly= Making me sad
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2018, 02:29:17 am »
  If you pull the carbs send them to SiSF.


   https://sites.google.com/site/shoodabenengineering/intake-and-exhaust

  I sent my carbs to Steve and I "thought" they were pretty decent. When I got them back on the bike They were way better than new!! I WAS IMPRESSED!! :great:
'94 Concours 115,000 miles-- 7th gear,2MM,KB fork brace,Over flowtubes,Stick coils,Tcro shifter,GPS,SiSF'sTorque cams,SPOOKFAK,block off plates, SS brake & clutch lines,KB risers, FENDA EXTENDA, emulators, SiSF carb Spa, Delkevic exhaust, Murphs' knee savers +grips, etc

Offline JPD

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Re: 06' ZG1000 Running badly= Making me sad
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2018, 03:38:43 am »
When I got my vulcan 750 it would idle on only one cylinder. Ran great at higher rpm. It got worse at higher elevation. It turned out to be the fuel sov would leak alittle extra fuel into the vaccum line and run one cylinder rich at idle. The bike could handle any extra fuel it got at higher rpm and ran great. After I rebuilt the sov it ran correctly. Look real close at the vent hole on the valve for any signes of fuel.

I was told that a shop had rebuilt the carbs to try to fix the problem but it didn't work.

Offline Bud

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Re: 06' ZG1000 Running badly= Making me sad
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2018, 09:58:58 am »
i appreciate you guys !

I will pull the tank, replace my vaccuum lines with fresh (need to do anyway)
Replace older stiff fuel lines
Drain the tank and give her a slight sweep
pull the plugs and take pictures

If no avail , i will pull the carbs and send them off for a servicing
I rode this bike from Southern Indiana -> Tucson Arizona and back and it was the best 2 weeks on 2 wheels i've ever had
Where in southern Indiana?  I'm in Tell City.

Offline connie_rider

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Re: 06' ZG1000 Running badly= Making me sad
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2018, 11:39:01 am »
Trav, please clarify.
When you say it is running good off of the tank,,, "are you on remote fuel or using only the fuel left in the carbs"?
(ie; Are you using different fuel)?

Ride safe, Ted
14 Connie (Traveler II) / 03 Connie (Buddy)
Gone but not forgotten; 87 and 00 Connies..

If your not already a COGger, "consider becoming one".
Help us make "OtP" possible again, DO IT NOW!!

Offline Cal

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Re: 06' ZG1000 Running badly= Making me sad
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2018, 12:14:11 pm »
"or maybe the stranger than strange fuel being sucked down the vacuum hose to the petcock." per Steve S

yup - seen that symptom when the Petcock diaphragm had a pin hole to the vacuum side.  bike would idle OK but stumble on accel - higher throttle showed less problem.


2 other things to look for if the petcock diaphragm is the issue.  there will be a smell of fuel at the petcock and possible seepage of fuel from the bottom of the petcock - most apparent just after shutting down the engine.  also - if run long enough plug #2 will look darker as it is getting extra fuel down the vacuum line.

Cal

Offline Trav

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Re: 06' ZG1000 Running badly= Making me sad
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2018, 10:47:10 pm »
It happened shortly after refueling yes.

It ran great with a remote tank and great with the fuel left in the carbs, just not the stock tank

I'm going to rip into her tomorrow early so i'll have more to offer .

Bud ,I'm in Boonville Indiana . It's funny because my connie sat at the German ridge trail head a month ago while i was backpacking near tell city

Offline Bud

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Re: 06' ZG1000 Running badly= Making me sad
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2018, 11:16:49 pm »
If you think it's a petcock, I have one you can test with that was just pulled this summer.   I pulled it just to have a new one in there, not because of any issue with running.

Offline connie_rider

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Re: 06' ZG1000 Running badly= Making me sad
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2018, 03:06:51 pm »
It happened shortly after refueling yes.

It ran great with a remote tank and great with the fuel left in the carbs, just not with the stock tank


That does sound like possible fuel into the vacuum hose.
Put it on prime and disconnect vacuum,  and plug vacuum to check.
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Offline Trav

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Re: 06' ZG1000 Running badly= Making me sad
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2018, 09:25:22 pm »
Before i get too far ruling out the simple things i'd like to state

Started it up with tank on - runs like poop

I pulled the tank and started it up

Runs great with my finger covering the vacuum hose for the petcock.
idles low and steady . revs out super smooth like it has
Checked all spark -GOOD
Pulled plugs and re-gapped and cleaned them - all burning in right range
Airbox not cracked and filter flush to top of box

replaced Fuel line and vacuum lines

put the tank back on , runs like poop.

took tank back off and plugged vacuum line to petcock
and it smoothed out and ran great again.







Offline Trav

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Re: 06' ZG1000 Running badly= Making me sad
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2018, 09:31:31 pm »
It happened shortly after refueling yes.

It ran great with a remote tank and great with the fuel left in the carbs, just not with the stock tank


That does sound like possible fuel into the vacuum hose.
Put it on prime and disconnect vacuum,  and plug vacuum to check.

I think this gentleman has it pinpointed and possibly a Pinhole in diaphragm

Offline connie_rider

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Re: 06' ZG1000 Running badly= Making me sad
« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2018, 11:44:13 pm »

I pulled the tank and started it up.....
Runs great with my finger covering the vacuum hose for the petcock.


You are not telling us 1` thing.
When you remove the tank, are you running from another fuel source, or on the fuel remaining in the carbs?

Ride safe, Ted
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Offline Bud

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Re: 06' ZG1000 Running badly= Making me sad
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2018, 09:01:34 am »
Quote
It happened shortly after refueling yes.

It ran great with a remote tank and great with the fuel left in the carbs, just not with the stock tank

Ted, he did say it.  It was just kinda hiding.  I think Ted nailed it as well. :great:


Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: 06' ZG1000 Running badly= Making me sad
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2018, 11:54:39 am »
  test - remove / plug the vacuum hose to the petcock, put petcock on prime, run engine. If it runs fine, it's fuel leaking down the vac line. Steve
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Offline connie_rider

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Re: 06' ZG1000 Running badly= Making me sad
« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2018, 12:05:11 pm »
I didn't figure it out, I'm only repeating what Steve sed.
We both think the gas thru vacuum line/petcock could be the problem.

But we still don't know if he's running on the fuel in the carbs or another fuel source when it runs well?
If he's on another fuel source when it straightens out, it could be water in the gas tank as MOB suggested.

Ride safe, Ted
« Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 12:40:47 am by connie_rider »
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Help us make "OtP" possible again, DO IT NOW!!

Offline Bud

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Re: 06' ZG1000 Running badly= Making me sad
« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2018, 02:05:04 pm »
He said this in post 14:
"It ran great with a remote tank and great with the fuel left in the carbs, just not with the stock tank."

Offline Trav

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Re: 06' ZG1000 Running badly= Making me sad
« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2018, 02:21:54 pm »
I am running it off the fuel left in my carbs.
I do have a remote tank and use that as well

either was it runs great off of either
just not my stock tank/ petcock with all tubing hooked up

what is a possible solution to my problem?

i'm pulling my petcock today
to poke around?

and can anyone send me a guide to properly pulling the carb rack?
I think i'm going to send them off anyway since im already ripped down