Author Topic: 2004 C10 smoking heavily under acceleration  (Read 1502 times)

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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: 2004 C10 smoking heavily under acceleration
« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2018, 11:15:11 pm »

Remove the valve cover, and INSPCT / AND ADJUST the valve clearances.. at that time, examine the gasket, and all of the 'oil drain back holes' from the valve area... I suspect someone may have gotten a bit "GOOPY' and goobered silicone sealer around the gasket sealing the cover, and it migrated, blocking the drain holes, and holding an abundance of 'spare' oil pooled there... sitting on the valves and seals...
and working it's way in from there..




do it before messing with all the exhaust thing... the longer you wait, the more time you are running without knowing the CAUSE of the issue...  messing with the 'resulted carnage' isn't conducive to fixing the problem..
anyway, after doing so, simply remove the mufflers, everything in the header pipes will burn off quickly without all the fussing with removing them.

also, look down below the airbox, there should be a rubber elbow hose, from the crank case to the air box... make sure it is in place, and intact...  this item would mask the overfilled condition, as it would not have sucked the additional oil vapor up there, which is why you may not have seen oil in the flow path to the filter...

EDIT;
Thanks for joining the forum today, and asking questions.
Sorry if the answers you received required something considered as too labor intensive, to suit your conditions.
After the e-mails between us,
I will just bow out, and say best of luck on your choices.

 :103:
« Last Edit: October 03, 2018, 11:56:03 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

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and if you are gonna call me names... it's MR. Analdweeb if you please...

Offline batboy

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Re: 2004 C10 smoking heavily under acceleration
« Reply #26 on: October 04, 2018, 12:40:24 am »
Could be an exhaust valve seal, but that would probably also mean the guide is worn. I would do a compression check. Then, if you have a low cylinder, squirt oil in around the rings (through spark plug hole) and see if the compression goes up temporally. If so, maybe the rings, if it stays low, maybe valves. With excessive upper engine noise, I'd probably pull the head off right off the bat. This project might be a little more time consuming than you had hoped, but the parts are readily available and fairly cheap.

Offline jettawreck

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Re: 2004 C10 smoking heavily under acceleration
« Reply #27 on: October 04, 2018, 12:56:46 am »
All my C10's had "excessive" top end noise.  ::)
So that's a bit relative to what you may have been used to.
The oil level in the sight glass would change levels over night and day to day w/o being moved or started. Always found that strange, and they both (2002/2005) did it. Got so I never looked at it. Changed oil/filter, added the three qts and waited until next time to do it again.
The Honda ST oil level is always at the same place within a few minutes after shut down.

I think MOB had a good suggestion or two there and very much worth investigating. Yes, he comes across a bit hard to take often, but he is a wealth of tech knowledge. And even worse, he's often right.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2018, 01:00:52 am by jettawreck »
Snowmobiles, I have a bunch.
Motorcycles-I haven't had anything except dirtbikes 30 years ago, so this will be all new to me.
2005 C10 with Rifle w/s, SISF Exhaust sprocket, overflow tubes, 2 minute jet mod. (SOLD)
2004 Honda ST1300-the current mule.

Offline Bikerman

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Re: 2004 C10 smoking heavily under acceleration
« Reply #28 on: October 04, 2018, 02:02:18 am »
Agreed. I will certainly heed the advice MOB has given here. I think I may have come off as discounting or dissing, which was never my intention. A couple of my notes came out after he sent his (crossed each other actually). There is obviously strong merit in his suggestions of checking the valve area for blockages, and also adjusting the valves prior to moving it on. To be perfectly honest, this is a re-marketing bike for me, and the cost of labor, parts and effort to  get any farther into the engine than that (ex: valve seals, rings etc) simply exceeds the time I am willing and able to invest (it is actually worth more in parts than whole believe it of not). I need to balance each bike's needs, investment and potential quite carefully.

There is still a decent likelihood (IMHO) that the prior owner's buddy (who changed the oil before this all started) over-filled the bike, and it subsequently puked a crap-load of oil into the exhaust. And I may have repeated his mistake too, after draining and refilling, by missing the second drain plug, but the oil is still below max in the sight glass.   

Yes I am paying attention to what everyone has written, and appreciate the guidance immensely. Thank you.             

Offline cal

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Re: 2004 C10 smoking heavily under acceleration
« Reply #29 on: October 04, 2018, 10:54:38 am »
Still hoping it's just the exhaust loaded with oil from an over-fill and burning off.

Take the mufflers off and run up the road. If smoke is gone, you might have dodged a bullet. Sure hope so.

Offline batboy

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Re: 2004 C10 smoking heavily under acceleration
« Reply #30 on: October 04, 2018, 11:45:26 am »
Bikerman, I'm very new too, but what I've noticed is that most COG members consider these bikes a labor of love. Most would have no hesitation to do whatever it takes to repair their "baby". Perhaps they don't understand the "flipping for profit" mindset. Heck, everything I do on this bike takes way longer than I expect, but it's 30 years old and needs some TLC, so I caress it and fix it's "ouchies" no matter how long it takes.

Sounds like you have spend a lot of time messing with the bike hoping the problem will magically go away (which rarely happens from my experience). Forget the guessing game, do a compression check. If that indicates a problem, then pull the head. As long as the pistons, rings, and cylinders are okay, this is an easy fix. Buy a complete working ZG1000 head for a couple hundred bucks and swap it in. The head can be removed with the engine in the frame.

Offline jettawreck

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Re: 2004 C10 smoking heavily under acceleration
« Reply #31 on: October 04, 2018, 12:31:10 pm »
Agreed. I will certainly heed the advice MOB has given here. I think I may have come off as discounting or dissing, which was never my intention. A couple of my notes came out after he sent his (crossed each other actually). There is obviously strong merit in his suggestions of checking the valve area for blockages, and also adjusting the valves prior to moving it on. To be perfectly honest, this is a re-marketing bike for me, and the cost of labor, parts and effort to  get any farther into the engine than that (ex: valve seals, rings etc) simply exceeds the time I am willing and able to invest (it is actually worth more in parts than whole believe it of not). I need to balance each bike's needs, investment and potential quite carefully.

There is still a decent likelihood (IMHO) that the prior owner's buddy (who changed the oil before this all started) over-filled the bike, and it subsequently puked a crap-load of oil into the exhaust. And I may have repeated his mistake too, after draining and refilling, by missing the second drain plug, but the oil is still below max in the sight glass.   

Yes I am paying attention to what everyone has written, and appreciate the guidance immensely. Thank you.             

Understand completely the time/cost factor and the value of the parts more than the whole thing issue also. Parted out more than one project snowmobile, although that too takes a lot of time/effort unless you have some prospective pre-buyers waiting. Some stuff never goes away and between dealing with some jerks and no shows it can get frustrating.
I think IF there was oil over-filling it was done before you got it, as it smoked when you bought it and never indicated an over fill after your change. I suspect the exhaust got filled up and is burning off yet. The prudent thing(s) to do have been mentioned by MOB and others but if that doesn't fit into the the cost of time, let the parts/pieces go. To some, the repainted plastics may be a turn off and harder to sell, so factor that into consideration, perhaps. 
Snowmobiles, I have a bunch.
Motorcycles-I haven't had anything except dirtbikes 30 years ago, so this will be all new to me.
2005 C10 with Rifle w/s, SISF Exhaust sprocket, overflow tubes, 2 minute jet mod. (SOLD)
2004 Honda ST1300-the current mule.

Offline Bikerman

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Re: 2004 C10 smoking heavily under acceleration
« Reply #32 on: October 04, 2018, 01:00:18 pm »
Agreed with all of the above. Thanks to all.

Offline Boomer

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Re: 2004 C10 smoking heavily under acceleration
« Reply #33 on: October 04, 2018, 07:29:45 pm »
Take the spark plugs out. If they are clean-ish then it's most likely the exhaust valve stem oil seals have split. If so you will need to get the head off to replace them.
If the plugs are heavily oiled then it's either the intake valve stem seals or a busted oil ring.
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Offline Bikerman

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Re: 2004 C10 smoking heavily under acceleration
« Reply #34 on: October 05, 2018, 02:16:40 am »
Makes perfect sense to me!

Offline who me?

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Re: 2004 C10 smoking heavily under acceleration
« Reply #35 on: October 05, 2018, 02:49:28 am »
I dont think you have to drain the oil cooler line unless you just really want to
(shouldnt hurt anything if you do but I dont remember anyone saying you have to do it)
I have no idea about anything.
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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: 2004 C10 smoking heavily under acceleration
« Reply #36 on: October 06, 2018, 10:32:33 am »
 I know these bikes very well, if the oil wasn't overfilled the next place I'd be looking is at the spark plug well gaskets on the valve cover. if the gasket is displaced OR if the locating dowels are gone, the engine will suck oil right into the exhaust ports and smoke bad.

  Don't overlook this advise. these engines are bulletproof and don't smoke. The likelyhood of ring or guide failure is incredibly low.

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Offline Mettler1

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Re: 2004 C10 smoking heavily under acceleration
« Reply #37 on: October 06, 2018, 03:11:54 pm »
  There you go. Steve KNOWS stuff. :beerchug:
'94 Concours 115,000 miles-- 7th gear,2MM,KB fork brace,Over flowtubes,Stick coils,Tcro shifter,GPS,SiSF'sTorque cams,SPOOKFAK,block off plates, SS brake & clutch lines,KB risers, FENDA EXTENDA, emulators, SiSF carb Spa, Delkevic exhaust, Murphs' knee savers +grips, etc

Offline Bikerman

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Re: 2004 C10 smoking heavily under acceleration
« Reply #38 on: October 07, 2018, 06:31:25 pm »
After recovering from my surgery today (injured myself moving the Connie yesterday, as I am kind of little and getting old....), I will give it a shot. Thank you again to everyone.

Offline Mettler1

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Re: 2004 C10 smoking heavily under acceleration
« Reply #39 on: October 07, 2018, 08:41:58 pm »
After recovering from my surgery today (injured myself moving the Connie yesterday, as I am kind of little and getting old....), I will give it a shot. Thank you again to everyone.


   Welcome to the club!!    :truce:
'94 Concours 115,000 miles-- 7th gear,2MM,KB fork brace,Over flowtubes,Stick coils,Tcro shifter,GPS,SiSF'sTorque cams,SPOOKFAK,block off plates, SS brake & clutch lines,KB risers, FENDA EXTENDA, emulators, SiSF carb Spa, Delkevic exhaust, Murphs' knee savers +grips, etc

Offline DC Concours

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Re: 2004 C10 smoking heavily under acceleration
« Reply #40 on: October 08, 2018, 01:18:40 am »
Surgery?? How did you hurt self?

Offline Bikerman

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Re: 2004 C10 smoking heavily under acceleration
« Reply #41 on: October 08, 2018, 11:08:16 am »
I'm 60 and only 5'9"......in short, getting older and not a very big guy. Additionally, I consider these bikes relatively heavy (at least for me). While I consider myself in pretty good shape and very healthy, the combination of putting this bike on the center stand and on my lift this Saturday created, (well, you asked for it) a massive thrombosed external Hemorrhoid on Saturday requiring immediate surgical correction (think "anal hernia" here). In short, a major pain in the a**. I guess heavy straining, regardless of how you do it or why, uses your sphincter muscles and creates an opportunity for blow out. May be awhile before I get back to normal. I had a similar, but very minor occurrence a few years ago caused by aggressive sit-ups on my incline bench.   

Well, you asked for it! TMI?
   


Offline Bud

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Re: 2004 C10 smoking heavily under acceleration
« Reply #42 on: October 08, 2018, 11:16:36 am »
 :-\ :-\ :-\
That makes me hurt just thinking about it.  Just wondering what your method is for getting it up on the lift.  You have my sympathy sir.

Offline Mettler1

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Re: 2004 C10 smoking heavily under acceleration
« Reply #43 on: October 08, 2018, 02:45:57 pm »
I'm 60 and only 5'9"......in short, getting older and not a very big guy. Additionally, I consider these bikes relatively heavy (at least for me). While I consider myself in pretty good shape and very healthy, the combination of putting this bike on the center stand and on my lift this Saturday created, (well, you asked for it) a massive thrombosed external Hemorrhoid on Saturday requiring immediate surgical correction (think "anal hernia" here). In short, a major pain in the a**. I guess heavy straining, regardless of how you do it or why, uses your sphincter muscles and creates an opportunity for blow out. May be awhile before I get back to normal. I had a similar, but very minor occurrence a few years ago caused by aggressive sit-ups on my incline bench.   

Well, you asked for it! TMI?
   


     Damn, that would tick me off!! >:(   
'94 Concours 115,000 miles-- 7th gear,2MM,KB fork brace,Over flowtubes,Stick coils,Tcro shifter,GPS,SiSF'sTorque cams,SPOOKFAK,block off plates, SS brake & clutch lines,KB risers, FENDA EXTENDA, emulators, SiSF carb Spa, Delkevic exhaust, Murphs' knee savers +grips, etc

Offline Bikerman

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Re: 2004 C10 smoking heavily under acceleration
« Reply #44 on: October 08, 2018, 04:14:56 pm »
My method for getting it onto lift started with pushing it up (I failed half way up after a bit of struggling, and had to bring in back down) and then motored it up in first (much better). I have loaded many bikes on the lift this way, including Stratoliners, Road Kings, Goldwings and my BMW 1150GS. No idea why this one was so hard for me. 

Probably just getting old. :(

Offline DC Concours

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Re: 2004 C10 smoking heavily under acceleration
« Reply #45 on: October 08, 2018, 04:40:04 pm »
Damn! that was bad. I hope you will recover well.

These bikes are heavy and awkward for younger, taller guys too. Something about the center stand travel and handrails are not quite right.


Offline Bikerman

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Re: 2004 C10 smoking heavily under acceleration
« Reply #46 on: October 08, 2018, 09:32:05 pm »
And damn if a second surgery isn’t in order for tomorrow. Be careful people. Ugh.

Offline Pbfoot

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Re: 2004 C10 smoking heavily under acceleration
« Reply #47 on: October 09, 2018, 02:15:56 am »
Good luck with your second brain surgery as my old dad used to call it.
If you don't have time to do it right, when do you have time to do it over.                                                                17" wheels, Nissin 4 piston calipers.1kg Sonic Springs.Cartridge Fork Emulators. KB Brace. Galfer brake lines  Free power mod.

Offline Bob_C_CT

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Re: 2004 C10 smoking heavily under acceleration
« Reply #48 on: October 09, 2018, 11:03:27 am »
Good luck and speedy recovery.
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Offline Brooke_Benfield_OR

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Re: 2004 C10 smoking heavily under acceleration
« Reply #49 on: October 09, 2018, 03:53:17 pm »
If the rear tire is significantly under inflated or worn the C10 is not an easy bike to put on centerstand. I can't believe how much easier my Feejer is to put on centerstand than my C10s were.
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