Concours Owners Group (COG) Forum

Concours Discussion (C10 / ZG1000 / 1000GTR) => Concours C10 / ZG1000 General Chat and Tech => Topic started by: connieklr on October 29, 2017, 06:54:18 pm

Title: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: connieklr on October 29, 2017, 06:54:18 pm
Getting ready to do a 35K mile valve check on my 194K mile '95, and am seriously thinking of removing the air injection system, and machining a couple of cover plates to replace the reed cages. Previous renditions I have seen have folks tapping the exhaust portals and plugging them with some small plugs. Can't anyone explain to me why this plugging procedure is (absolutely) necessary? Unless I'm missing something, I can't.

????????????

TIA
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: Outback Jon on October 29, 2017, 07:00:56 pm
Turning the reed valves over achieves the same thing.   No tapping necessary. 

Don't forget to plug the hole in the airbox, too.
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on October 30, 2017, 08:39:59 pm
Turning the reed valves over achieves the same thing.   No tapping necessary. 

Don't forget to plug the hole in the airbox, too.

Interesting....

A friend of ours (Guys and mine) we shall call him Tim.... did just this same thing, by mistake once... altho he didn't block the air tube off... his bike backfired and sputtered making a horrendous racket, till I popped the reeds back out and installed thm reed side down... as original...
As these "ports" do lead directly down into the exhaust flow path, and the purpose is to draw air to clean up combustion, I have to say flipping the reeds still allows backpressure pulses to back flow.. thus his dillemma...

Guy,
If you wish to pull them, and cap them, and plug the hose hole in the airbox with a rubber plug,nit works... but id do that optional step along with it all... plugging the actual ports in the head.. I'm silly like that, but I know there is a back pulse that can and does pressurize the cavity.
Its an easy procedure, I did one once for some huy insisting it done...  I took pieces of cotton gauze, and made plugs attached to some 20# fishing line, greased them goobery, and poked them into the ports... then using iirc a 5/16" tap, (no drilling required) goobered with grease, tapped each hole, and then pulled the gauze and greasy chips booger back up and out... then threaded a short setscrew into the hole, goobered with black RTV into the port, and backed it with a second setscrew, goobered also.. this seals the ports, and is totally reversable if so desired...
Then add caps, or not, it'll be all sealed then.
COGZilla still has reeds, so did Touch Of Gray...
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: Bob_C_CT on October 30, 2017, 11:20:57 pm
I have block off plates, reeds upside down. So the next time I do the valve adjust I should tap and plug the holes while I have the valve cover off?
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on October 30, 2017, 11:29:41 pm
well, no, i'm sure with the blockoffs sealed with some sealant, it offers resistance..

I just gave my take on the way the reeds worked as installed, and what I personally would do.
Seems like there have been no Issues reported by using block off's only, but then again, people tend to not pay a lot of attention to detail.. and never question it. If a seal at some point, becomes compromised... will they know?  :truce:
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on October 31, 2017, 12:10:38 am
Tap the head and install plugs with sealant on them. Then you'll never have to worry about oil getting sucked into the exhaust. Steve.
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: Nosmo on October 31, 2017, 02:38:10 am
Every time I read one of these threads I want to ask....so now I will.

I installed home-made block-off plates many years and about 45,000 miles ago.  All I did was plug the airbox hole and bolt the plates on over the existing reed valves, nothing else.  I never tapped anything.  What am I missing? Engine runs great, no oil going anywhere it isn't suppose to as far as I know.  No backfiring, afterfiring, missing. nothing.  What the heck was I supposed to tap and plug?
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on October 31, 2017, 02:41:24 pm
Every time I read one of these threads I want to ask....so now I will.

I installed home-made block-off plates many years and about 45,000 miles ago.  All I did was plug the airbox hole and bolt the plates on over the existing reed valves, nothing else.  I never tapped anything.  What am I missing? Engine runs great, no oil going anywhere it isn't suppose to as far as I know.  No backfiring, afterfiring, missing. nothing.  What the heck was I supposed to tap and plug?

you don't have to tap and plug anything, but doing it will prevent any possibility of the well gaskets letting oil into the exhaust. Steve
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: connieklr on October 31, 2017, 06:10:28 pm
I didn't want to say anything until I had one pulled out, but this is what I recollected if the reeds were simply flipped:

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Misc-Motorcycles/i-xnQpcdF/0/afb48571/M/reed%201-M.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Misc-Motorcycles/i-KGcfbKb/0/f6af01e0/M/reed%202-M.jpg)

I'm not into forcing something into position, so me thinks I'll just do the deed, tap and plug the ports. The valve cover is coming off anyway to check the valves, so no big deal.
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on October 31, 2017, 07:17:34 pm
Another interesting factoid.... and question....
Did you have a thick gasket, located below the reeds assembly, on your cover?
Just asking, as when I was trouble shooting Tim's bike, he mentioned he bought new gaskets...and they didn't fit.. back then we both had '86 models... I ordered a pair of gaskets, and held onto them, but at my next chance, when I removed the reeds and was doing a valve check, found the gaskets would not fir... they were like 1/8" thick and in the microfiche shown to "live" below the reeds assembly in that recess, but in the manual (physically not shown), were explained to fit between the reeds and the top cover... big mystery to me anyways, and I never could make them fit in there... weird.

Another mystery part I'll never understand on this bike... :rotflmao:
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: connieklr on October 31, 2017, 07:43:50 pm
Another interesting factoid.... and question....
Did you have a thick gasket, located below the reeds assembly, on your cover?
Just asking, as when I was trouble shooting Tim's bike, he mentioned he bought new gaskets...and they didn't fit.. back then we both had '86 models... I ordered a pair of gaskets, and held onto them, but at my next chance, when I removed the reeds and was doing a valve check, found the gaskets would not fir... they were like 1/8" thick and in the microfiche shown to "live" below the reeds assembly in that recess, but in the manual (physically not shown), were explained to fit between the reeds and the top cover... big mystery to me anyways, and I never could make them fit in there... weird.

Another mystery part I'll never understand on this bike... :rotflmao:

I didn't pull it out, because at first glance it looked a little thin. Because of that, I didn't mess with it for fear I'd fook it up. Again, I only pulled one valve set out just to confirm what the pictures showed and that I'd remembered. I'll take a closer look tomorrow when I head back out to the garage to pull the cover.

Will be interesting to see where the valves are sitting. I thought it had only been ~35K since my last check, but it'll actually be ~54K. The last time I looked, which was around 35K, they were all well within spec. Dang - time flies when you're having fun.

Have also pulled the carbs (always fun once there's a chill in the air). I want to up the pilots a notch (and shim the needles) to see if that has any effect since installing the Delkevics. Bike hasn't been as seamless off idle as it used-to-wuz with the OEM pipes. No big hurry. Will be taking the KLR on the Brrr Ride. There's a couple of semi off-road places over in WV I want to visit IF the wx cooperates.
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: drumstyx on October 31, 2017, 11:06:06 pm
The gaskets there are very thick, but no thicker than you can get at your local NAPA, as I've done to make my own when experimenting. I have an '02, and there was a thick gasket there (from the factory, presumably). They were *under* the reed valves. I remember explicitly because if they weren't, they'd have been ripped the first time the covers were removed for a valve adjustment, as they're paper and quite delicate.

Honestly, the blockoff plates alone have been just fine. I experimented in thought about how a pulse might make its way into another cylinder, and IIRC, it simply doesn't happen. I tried installing the valves with gasket and blockoff plate (not inverted) and it made no difference vs simple blockoff plates.

That said, I've found I DO have to remove the blockoff plates (or perhaps just the screws, it's been a while since I did a valve adjustment) to get the valve cover out. Perhaps it'd be nice if I could tap and block off the ports, then I wouldn't have to deal with *anything* sticking up and could just fill/cover the area with...well anything. JB weld? Drywall putty???
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: Bucky on October 31, 2017, 11:24:47 pm
The might-oughta-wanna? report:

If a state decides to emi$$ion$ test motorcycles, you might wanna keep the old emissions plumbing around for good luck.

Would a Connie fail emissions without the plumbing? Dunno. Hope I never have to find out.

The Feds threatened to withhold highway funding  unless CT got on the emissions testing bandwagon. As we have botched numerous attempts at it, we likely spent 4 times more than the Feds may have withheld. That's how we roll here -- if it costs a dollar, we want to spend $14 instead. ranty rant rant...
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: drumstyx on October 31, 2017, 11:31:46 pm
The might-oughta-wanna? report:

If a state decides to emi$$ion$ test motorcycles, you might wanna keep the old emissions plumbing around for good luck.

Would a Connie fail emissions without the plumbing? Dunno. Hope I never have to find out.

The Feds threatened to withhold highway funding  unless CT got on the emissions testing bandwagon. As we have botched numerous attempts at it, we likely spent 4 times more than the Feds may have withheld. That's how we roll here -- if it costs a dollar, we want to spend $14 instead. ranty rant rant...

I can't speak for the state of affairs in the USA, as I know some states have never had ANY sort of testing, safety or emission, but in Canada e-testing has been statistically proven to currently be a waste of time and money. It achieved its purpose; getting old major polluters off the road. These days, manufacturing-level standards, not to mention fuel economy, are enough of a driver that they're no longer necessary. Modern vehicles don't have failing emissions systems like olds vehicles. British Columbia (Canada's California, as far as that eco-friendly thing goes) has recently completely removed the emission testing system.
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: Outback Jon on October 31, 2017, 11:39:29 pm
Would a Connie fail emissions without the plumbing? Dunno. Hope I never have to find out.
I believe that the plumbing mostly came into use when you closed the throttle on deceleration.  So it likely wouldn't have any effect on a static emissions test.  Maybe if the state required a test hooked up to a dyno.
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: Bucky on October 31, 2017, 11:40:15 pm
Here in CT, you take a an hour or three out of your work day, pay $20, cash only, go wait, and basically find out if your "check engine" light is working.

If you are without means and have an old vehicle, you get to spend up to $400 for post failure repairs to take a shot at compliance.

Its basically a program to waste your time and money, and punish the poor.

This is the truth, so help me God, Buddha, whoever you choose -- In CT, we were issued stickers prior to the start of emissions stating "This vehicle has not been tested."  Is that stupid to the point of a brain explosion. Why, yes - it is.
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: drumstyx on October 31, 2017, 11:55:54 pm
Here in CT, you take a an hour or three out of your work day, pay $20, cash only, go wait, and basically find out if your "check engine" light is working.

If you are without means and have an old vehicle, you get to spend up to $400 for post failure repairs to take a shot at compliance.

Its basically a program to waste your time and money, and punish the poor.

This is the truth, so help me God, Buddha, whoever you choose -- In CT, we were issued stickers prior to the start of emissions stating "This vehicle has not been tested."  Is that stupid to the point of a brain explosion. Why, yes - it is.

Yep, 3 or 4 years ago Ontario changed to code-reading only, removing the tailpipe emissions test -- basically the same test you can run on a $50 code reader. They've just this year made the test 'free', in that the taxpayer now pays for the scam :)
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: Bucky on October 31, 2017, 11:57:50 pm

We do dyno runs for emissions here.

It's only money...


... mine  >:(
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: Outback Jon on November 01, 2017, 11:49:49 am
If you are without means and have an old vehicle, you get to spend up to $400 for post failure repairs to take a shot at compliance.
I believe the number is $1500 here in NY.   :o
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: connieklr on November 01, 2017, 01:33:41 pm
The might-oughta-wanna? report:

If a state decides to emi$$ion$ test motorcycles, you might wanna keep the old emissions plumbing around for good luck.

Would a Connie fail emissions without the plumbing? Dunno. Hope I never have to find out.

The Feds threatened to withhold highway funding  unless CT got on the emissions testing bandwagon. As we have botched numerous attempts at it, we likely spent 4 times more than the Feds may have withheld. That's how we roll here -- if it costs a dollar, we want to spend $14 instead. ranty rant rant...

I have a bad(?) habit or rarely throwing anything away - first wife excluded.

Anything I remove will be neatly tucked away somewhere safe...........  where I won't be able to find it the next time I go looking for it.  :(
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: CmosBob on November 01, 2017, 07:16:49 pm
The might-oughta-wanna? report:

If a state decides to emi$$ion$ test motorcycles, you might wanna keep the old emissions plumbing around for good luck.

Would a Connie fail emissions without the plumbing? Dunno. Hope I never have to find out.

The Feds threatened to withhold highway funding  unless CT got on the emissions testing bandwagon. As we have botched numerous attempts at it, we likely spent 4 times more than the Feds may have withheld. That's how we roll here -- if it costs a dollar, we want to spend $14 instead. ranty rant rant...

Dont be giving Dan Malloy any ideas, please.   :rotflmao:   :))
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on November 01, 2017, 08:03:07 pm

We do dyno runs for emissions here.

It's only money...


... mine  >:(

Dyno runs..... :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Look at the screen next time they "dyno" your car......
Ohio does EPA testing also, has for decades... they let you pull in, and drive tires sit on a rolling drum, but it ain't a dyno... they test fuel filler cap on a tester for leakage, run the plugin diagnoscs on the ECU, check milage, run the vehicle up to and hold 35 mph on the "dyno".. its just a speedo thing... and check system...
If you have dash lights saying service engine, they can refuse the testing, but if you are smart, and have issues with dash lights, you can stop at Autozone, use their code reader, and go in and erase all the stored error codes on the way to the test station... then you can sign a form, and submit to a sniffer test....run at speed.
My 98 gmc sonoma, with check engine light, once cleared, aces the emissions every single time I've had it inspected, all emissions are below 10% of the range they check as minimum... so its a cleaner engine than most on the road... then I get a clean bill of health for 2 years before needing another test...
They will NEVER do testing on bikes here, and in Va., the only inspection they do is for burned out bulbs, horn, and a visualnwalknaround... never see them doing emissions in future either for any vehical, as they won't spend the money to setup all the inspection stations which are mostly garages doing brake, tire, and minimal autonservices...

I still don't understand the emissions thing, hell, with all the dieselntrucks and busses, I see everyday belching black smoke, I have to think its a bad joke...
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: Locomotiveman on November 01, 2017, 09:18:04 pm
Myself, I put the Block-off plates on for 3 basic reasons. 1. To free up precious space when pulling the cover. 2. Eliminating Ugliness, possible vacuum leaks and whatnot. 3. Simplify, simplify, simplify. I am puzzled why someone would NOT do it....   Locomotiveman
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: connieklr on November 02, 2017, 04:44:45 pm
Tapped and plugged (5/16"-18 x 1/4" set screws) the ports, and waiting on a quote for a 12" x 12" chunk of 3/8" alum. plate so I can machine the covers.

Checked the valves and I had four (4) that were .001" below the max setting...... which is always where I set them. Not bad since they've barely budged in 54K miles.

EDIT: I sit corrected. I did a really quick check yesterday when I first pulled the cover because I was curious where they were sitting. Digging deeper into them today ready to adjust, and I only had two exhaust that were a really snug .009"; backed them off slightly. Am happy!!
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: Brooke_Benfield_OR on November 02, 2017, 09:21:43 pm
Myself, I put the Block-off plates on for 3 basic reasons. 1. To free up precious space when pulling the cover. 2. Eliminating Ugliness, possible vacuum leaks and whatnot. 3. Simplify, simplify, simplify. I am puzzled why someone would NOT do it....   Locomotiveman

Not trying to get in anybodies face here but this is why I never did it on my C10s.

The system causes no penalty whatsoever to performance when functioning properly and reduces emissions by admitting fresh air into the exhaust system under relatively heavy acceleration to help pollutants burn before they reach the atmosphere. That's a win/win in my book.

The way I see it is the benefits of removing the AIS don't outweigh the advantages of leaving it in, so I don't really understand why folk do it.

To each their own.  ;)

Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: drumstyx on November 03, 2017, 02:13:06 pm
Myself, I put the Block-off plates on for 3 basic reasons. 1. To free up precious space when pulling the cover. 2. Eliminating Ugliness, possible vacuum leaks and whatnot. 3. Simplify, simplify, simplify. I am puzzled why someone would NOT do it....   Locomotiveman

Not trying to get in anybodies face here but this is why I never did it on my C10s.

The system causes no penalty whatsoever to performance when functioning properly and reduces emissions by admitting fresh air into the exhaust system under relatively heavy acceleration to help pollutants burn before they reach the atmosphere. That's a win/win in my book.

The way I see it is the benefits of removing the AIS don't outweigh the advantages of leaving it in, so I don't really understand why folk do it.

To each their own.  ;)

It let's air in on *deceleration*, and aids in combustion within the exhaust pipe. In theory that should make the exhaust pop more with the system installed.

Regardless though, you're right, there's no performance hit and it's an emissions system. But for all the tiny bit that private vehicles contribute to emissions (seriously, check out the stats on industrial vs private emissions) I'd rather be able to work on my bike much more comfortably.
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: m in sc on November 03, 2017, 05:47:49 pm
actually, the benefit of it is it vents crankcase pressure on deceleration when engine braking. this isnt nec a bad thing as there is always some amount of blowby in a motor this size. think about why it works as it does and it will make sense. ;)  i left mine on and i can easily make blanking plugs/plates on my mill. i get no popping on deceleration and my bikes dead nuts stock except for some jetting changes to compensate for the corn squeezins.  just .02
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on November 03, 2017, 08:31:49 pm
actually, the benefit of it is it vents crankcase pressure on deceleration when engine braking. this isnt nec a bad thing as there is always some amount of blowby in a motor this size. think about why it works as it does and it will make sense. ;)  i left mine on and i can easily make blanking plugs/plates on my mill. i get no popping on deceleration and my bikes dead nuts stock except for some jetting changes to compensate for the corn squeezins.  just .02

 :-X :-X
Explain how they vent the crankcase on decel, when the airpath of that circuit in total comes from the clean air side of the airbox, thru the reeds, down thru the ports, and into the exhaust path next to the exhaust valves on the downstream side.

There is a crankcase vent located below the airbox that vents, its tied to the bottom of the airbox by a rubber hose, and is open to atmosphere in the direct air intake path below the air filter....
The reed valves play absolutly no part as a crank case vent.

To addresss Drum's comment;
In theory, you would think it would cause popping, but as designed in conjunction with the convoluted design of the baffles in the mufflers, the addition of that small amount of clean cool air only aids in combustion silently by diluting of a slight over richness right at the beginning of the exhaust path, therefore "popping" does not occur due to the exhaust reversion pressure "holding" that mixture momentarily in that location untill consumed. As many have found, when greatly reduced flow restriction aftermarket mufflers are placed on the bike, then this flow continues back thru the system, and burbling and some popping may occur, but with stock exhaust it does not.

I hope these 2 explanations can help explain function, and dispell myths, that are or may be misunderstood.

Now, in honor of SISF, as he's a pal, and I love how he tosses out food for thought...
With reed valves adding air to the exhaust, to help maintain a clean burn, what part do the aircut valves on the carburators do, that makes sense, by actually adding some fuel to a lean condition that can occur upon decell also...?
 :??:
 ;) ;) :)
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: connie_rider on November 03, 2017, 08:46:06 pm
In theory, you would think it would cause popping, but as designed in conjunction with the convoluted design of the baffles in the mufflers, the addition of that small amount of clean cool air only aids in combustion silently by diluting of a slight over richness right at the beginning of the exhaust path, therefore "popping" does not occur due to the exhaust reversion pressure "holding" that mixture momentarily in that location until consumed. As many have found, when greatly reduced flow restriction aftermarket mufflers are placed on the bike, then this flow continues back thru the system, and burbling and some popping may occur, but with stock exhaust it does not.

Rich, I'd like more discussion on this. Interesting!
I am not disagreeing, just need to muddle it around in my puny brain.
I agree that changing the exhaust increases the popping sound. (I assumed it was because of a leaner mixture)
  Muddling;
        allowing the air in and speeding up the exhaust flow (w/less restriction) would seem to make the mixture in the pipe leaner??
        Not allowing the air in and speeding up the exhaust flow (w/less restriction) would seem to make the mixture in the pipe richer??

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on November 03, 2017, 09:04:22 pm
Ted,
Its a fine formula of time, temperature, fuel / air mixture, and length and shape of exhaust flow path that causes the secondary explosion...
Thus a rich fuel mixture, held back and diluted, consumes the explosive element silently, and while temperatures are the hottest... the case of low restriction exhaust simply allows that same mixture time to move further away, thus creating a larger total volumn of this mixture, and then explode at a higher velocity downstream...and uncontrollably by the lack of back pressure

Its all about UEL and LEL (Upper and Lower Explosive Limits) of combustable liquids and or gassious compounds...

Simple example:
2 half cup containers of gas
Set one cup on ground, toss lit match at it immediatly, and it lights, and burns controllably at a constant rate consuming the gas....

Toss the other cup on the ground, spead out, big patch, and toss on a match.... whooosh...  and no eybrows..
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: connie_rider on November 05, 2017, 07:05:57 pm
Ok, makes sense.
Let me see if I have this right..
Your saying;

On a bike with stock system with Air injection open, you have some oxygen in the mixture.
 Minimal pop.

On a bike with a stock system, with Air injection blocked, you have less oxygen in the mixture.
 maybe no pop.

On a bike with a slip on, with Air injection open you have some oxygen in the mixture, more total volume.
 noticeable pop.

On a bike with a slip on, with Air injection blocked you have less oxygen in the mixture, more total volume.
decreased pop.

Ted
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: connieklr on November 06, 2017, 04:00:11 pm
Ok, makes sense.
Let me see if I have this right..
Your saying;

On a bike with stock system with Air injection open, you have some oxygen in the mixture.
 Minimal pop.

On a bike with a stock system, with Air injection blocked, you have less oxygen in the mixture.
 maybe no pop.

On a bike with a slip on, with Air injection open you have some oxygen in the mixture, more total volume.
 noticeable pop.

On a bike with a slip on, with Air injection blocked you have less oxygen in the mixture, more total volume.
decreased pop.

Ted


Installing the Delkevics confirmed that with the system intact. We'll see how it sounds once I remove it.

Also, that small piece of alum plate I was waiting for a quote on - ferget about it. Received the immediate below this morning:

From: xxxxxxxxxx <xxxxxxxx@bmgmetals.com>
To: 'gbyoung2@verizon.net' <gbyoung2@verizon.net>
Sent: Mon, Nov 6, 2017 9:54 am
Subject: 3/8 ALUM PLATE

Sorry sir, only 4’ x 8’ plates.
 
xxxxx
 
xxxxx xxxxxxx
xxxxxxxx@bmgmetals.com
Inside Sales, BMG Metals Inc.
950 Masonic Lane, Richmond VA  23223
Office: 804-226-1024    Direct: 804-298-2210
www.bmgmetals.com (http://www.bmgmetals.com)  .  1-800-552-1510

And my response:

From: Guy Young <gbyoung2@verizon.net>
To: xxxxxxxx <xxxxxxxx@bmgmetals.com>
Sent: Mon, Nov 6, 2017 11:12 am
Subject: Re: 3/8 ALUM PLATE

Yeah,so I heard Friday when I ran over to your Specialty Metals place when I hadn't heard anything back. Major bummer.

There was an approx. 10" x 10" x 3/8" drop in cardboard box that would have been perfect for what I needed. The shop foreman (guess that's who he was) said it would probably be $40, or so. I gently set it back in the box. He said to check with the lady in the office, who would probably check with ya'll over on Masonic, and it would still probably be around $40.  Screwz that; too much rigmarole.

Ask him when all that started and he said shortly after you all were taken over by some French outfit. Nice fella and I joked with him about driving over on an Australian toll road, to a French outfit that didn't want to sell me a small piece of metal for a reasonable amount of money.

Ridiculous.

I bought a fair amount of steel product from ya'll a number of years ago (2010-2011), but guess I will no longer be looking to BMG for my needs. I had recommended you to another fella a couple weeks ago before I found all this out. No more.

Thank you, have a nice day, and enjoy your croissants.  :(

Sincerely,

Guy Young
N. Chesterfield
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: Brooke_Benfield_OR on November 06, 2017, 08:57:01 pm

[/quote]

It let's air in on *deceleration*

[/quote]

I respectfully disagree. My testing of the system confirmed that it is designed to block airflow under high vacuum conditions such as deceleration.
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: connieklr on November 06, 2017, 09:42:04 pm


It let's air in on *deceleration*

[/quote]

I respectfully disagree. My testing of the system confirmed that it is designed to block airflow under high vacuum conditions such as deceleration.
[/quote]

I agree. From the Manual:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Misc-Motorcycles/i-7G3g25m/0/bd4b3393/L/air%20switch-L.jpg)
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on November 06, 2017, 09:57:04 pm
Ok, makes sense.
Let me see if I have this right..
Your saying;

On a bike with stock system with Air injection open, you have some oxygen in the mixture.
 Minimal pop.

On a bike with a stock system, with Air injection blocked, you have less oxygen in the mixture.
 maybe no pop.

On a bike with a slip on, with Air injection open you have some oxygen in the mixture, more total volume.
 noticeable pop.

On a bike with a slip on, with Air injection blocked you have less oxygen in the mixture, more total volume.
decreased pop.

Ted


Installing the Delkevics confirmed that with the system intact. We'll see how it sounds once I remove it.

Also, that small piece of alum plate I was waiting for a quote on - ferget about it. Received the immediate below this morning:

From: xxxxxxxxxx <xxxxxxxx@bmgmetals.com>
To: 'gbyoung2@verizon.net' <gbyoung2@verizon.net>
Sent: Mon, Nov 6, 2017 9:54 am
Subject: 3/8 ALUM PLATE

Sorry sir, only 4’ x 8’ plates.
 
xxxxx
 
xxxxx xxxxxxx
xxxxxxxx@bmgmetals.com
Inside Sales, BMG Metals Inc.
950 Masonic Lane, Richmond VA  23223
Office: 804-226-1024    Direct: 804-298-2210
[url=http://www.bmgmetals.com]www.bmgmetals.com[/url] ([url]http://www.bmgmetals.com[/url])  .  1-800-552-1510

And my response:

From: Guy Young <gbyoung2@verizon.net>
To: xxxxxxxx <xxxxxxxx@bmgmetals.com>
Sent: Mon, Nov 6, 2017 11:12 am
Subject: Re: 3/8 ALUM PLATE

Yeah,so I heard Friday when I ran over to your Specialty Metals place when I hadn't heard anything back. Major bummer.

There was an approx. 10" x 10" x 3/8" drop in cardboard box that would have been perfect for what I needed. The shop foreman (guess that's who he was) said it would probably be $40, or so. I gently set it back in the box. He said to check with the lady in the office, who would probably check with ya'll over on Masonic, and it would still probably be around $40.  Screwz that; too much rigmarole.

Ask him when all that started and he said shortly after you all were taken over by some French outfit. Nice fella and I joked with him about driving over on an Australian toll road, to a French outfit that didn't want to sell me a small piece of metal for a reasonable amount of money.

Ridiculous.

I bought a fair amount of steel product from ya'll a number of years ago (2010-2011), but guess I will no longer be looking to BMG for my needs. I had recommended you to another fella a couple weeks ago before I found all this out. No more.

Thank you, have a nice day, and enjoy your croissants.  :(

Sincerely,

Guy Young
N. Chesterfield


Bro, just have to use that Bridgeport don't ya...?
All that you need is an 1/8" thick rectangle of aluminum, or any sheet metal.. stainless is nice, I think I have some loose pieces in my junk box...I'll send ya some if you want them, then just cut the perimeter size, drill 2 holes.. good to go..
The blockoff covers I made for the only one I did were leftover 1/8" glastic (red) scrap I had leftover from making some heatsink insulators years ago at our job...
I have some of that also if you want it...
Shoot me a note, or call me.
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: connieklr on November 07, 2017, 11:25:31 am
Nah, I'm good and now have all the material I need. And yes, might as well fire up the Bridgeport. Been giving the lathe a good workout here lately machining some bits for a fella's older BSA single crank, so might as well shift the chip production a little to the left. Besides, I just wanna because I can.  ;)
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: connie_rider on November 07, 2017, 02:12:18 pm
I found a scrap metal place in Houston to buy fabrication material.
      Best prices I've found, but still a lot higher than it used to be.
Material for the lathe, I mostly shop on Ebay as I don't need much..
   NOTE: My old lathe is small and old, but (I agree with you) playing with it is enjoyable...
             I REALLY wish I had a Mill!

Let us know the results of your project...
  I suspect the decell popping will improve.

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: connieklr on November 21, 2017, 08:39:50 pm
We're getting there. Got sidetracked on a fella's 500cc BSA crankshaft project.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycle-Repair/C10-Connie-Air-Injection-Removal/i-FFRT672/0/5ba5ef1b/M/IMG_3665-M.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycle-Repair/C10-Connie-Air-Injection-Removal/i-6fqBvLc/0/f1c8a879/M/Img_3644-M.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycle-Repair/C10-Connie-Air-Injection-Removal/i-pkGq6xg/0/5375af57/M/Img_3649-M.jpg)

Roughed out and ready for the final shaping and finishing touches:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycle-Repair/C10-Connie-Air-Injection-Removal/i-JkL5F3g/0/3bb30ccc/M/IMG_3657-M.jpg)
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: connie_rider on November 22, 2017, 02:08:14 pm
That mill is just "too" clean.
I don't see old metal shaving scattered everywhere!

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: connieklr on November 22, 2017, 09:32:05 pm
That mill is just "too" clean.
I don't see old metal shaving scattered everywhere!

Ride safe, Ted

Ted, you have no idea how much stuff gets scattered around. I try to get it off the floor so I don't track it into the house. The t-nut grooves are absolutely filled with chips. Really need to vacuum them out. Blew them out one time and that was a BIG mistake.  :-[
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: connieklr on November 22, 2017, 09:41:06 pm
Basically done. Few oops along the way, they're danged sure not perfect, but think they'll work out fine. Overkill? But of course, but I had fun making a mess.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycle-Repair/C10-Connie-Air-Injection-Removal/i-4ZprTdS/0/c48e7abb/L/IMG_3669-L.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycle-Repair/C10-Connie-Air-Injection-Removal/i-MmsnNTv/0/8a170ce9/L/IMG_3672-L.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycle-Repair/C10-Connie-Air-Injection-Removal/i-PMXbSCz/1/261faadf/L/Img_3685-L.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycle-Repair/C10-Connie-Air-Injection-Removal/i-DXQ7Lrs/1/d15a2799/L/Img_3686-L.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycle-Repair/C10-Connie-Air-Injection-Removal/i-rmHdfjH/0/e747cf87/L/IMG_3690-L.jpg)
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: connie_rider on November 22, 2017, 10:31:20 pm
Looks good to me............

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on November 22, 2017, 10:58:27 pm
Button head screws... Lowes bins, stainless ones... spend the $1, worth it..
Nice job tho... :great: :beerchug: :beerchug:
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: connieklr on November 22, 2017, 11:21:02 pm
Button head screws... Lowes bins, stainless ones... spend the $1, worth it..
Nice job tho... :great: :beerchug: :beerchug:

That was basically the game plan, but will probably hit Pleasants.... just to keep it kinda local..... Friday. Taking a break from the garage tomorrow.
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on November 23, 2017, 10:06:10 pm
Button head screws... Lowes bins, stainless ones... spend the $1, worth it..
Nice job tho... :great: :beerchug: :beerchug:

That was basically the game plan, but will probably hit Pleasants.... just to keep it kinda local..... Friday. Taking a break from the garage tomorrow.

Stop by "work" and tell Will to shoot me an email, and say hi to all my old compadres....then have lunch at the Pinewood... :beerchug:
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: who me? on November 24, 2017, 01:13:13 am
Somewhere in the tech pages or on the forum or somewhere I saw the fix to pull the emissions stuff and tap the four  holes in the valve cover Did it not long after I got the Mule in 99 Makes getting the valve cover out easier I havent experienced any ill effects (just turned 86k) Just sayin
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: Nosmo on November 24, 2017, 01:56:35 am
Having no Bridgeport, nor the skills to use it, I whittled mine out of some old Cessna scrap (or was it a Beechcraft?).  Combined with T-Cro's stick coils, it makes a really clean upper engine area.

pic below
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: connieklr on November 24, 2017, 11:09:31 am
Having no Bridgeport, nor the skills to use it, I whittled mine out of some old Cessna scrap (or was it a Beechcraft?).  Combined with T-Cro's stick coils, it makes a really clean upper engine area.

pic below

Nor I, really. With no formal training or experience, learning as I go. One of the reasons I went for the "overkill" was so I could gain a little more knowledge on how to use the thing. We're getting there.

Thanks for the pix. Yours is definitely a clean installation. Not sure if the stick coils are still available, but if so, I may look at that upgrade a little later. Even with 194K on the bike, it really needs nothing...... except ridden more. Something this imbalance crap has put a severe damper on for the last few years.
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: connieklr on November 24, 2017, 11:52:47 am
Button head screws... Lowes bins, stainless ones... spend the $1, worth it..
Nice job tho... :great: :beerchug: :beerchug:

That was basically the game plan, but will probably hit Pleasants.... just to keep it kinda local..... Friday. Taking a break from the garage tomorrow.

Stop by "work" and tell Will to shoot me an email, and say hi to all my old compadres....then have lunch at the Pinewood... :beerchug:

I did think about lunch at Pinewood today, but other than that, I really have no reason to cross over the river as I have two (2) Pleasants Hdwe stores relatively close to me. If I did cross and use the Pocahontas, that's an $8.30 round trip fare experience for me now. Plus, I usually like to give the Eastport crew a few days notice so we can collect a number of folks for the baked spaghetti. THAT alone makes the fare worthwhile.
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: Bud on November 24, 2017, 12:12:25 pm
If the air ports are tapped and plugged securely, why not make the block-off plate so that it lays in the recess of the valve cover where the reed valves were and flush with the top?  A couple of the reasons I've heard to install block-off plates is that it cleans up the area and makes it easier to remove the cover.  The plate could be held in with high temp adhesive of some sort.  With the current setup I have, you still end up taking those four bolts out to get max clearance to remove that pesky valve cover.  It would be more difficult to go back to stock, but it would give the most clearance come valve check time and also the cleanest look.
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: connieklr on November 24, 2017, 12:34:44 pm
If the air ports are tapped and plugged securely, why not make the block-off plate so that it lays in the recess of the valve cover where the reed valves were and flush with the top?  A couple of the reasons I've heard to install block-off plates is that it cleans up the area and makes it easier to remove the cover.  The plate could be held in with high temp adhesive of some sort.  With the current setup I have, you still end up taking those four bolts out to get max clearance to remove that pesky valve cover.  It would be more difficult to go back to stock, but it would give the most clearance come valve check time and also the cleanest look.

Appreciate the suggestion. I actually considered that, but decided on the full cover plates instead.

One of the reasons for going with the button head screws is because of their low profile. Whether they'll be low enough without removal? Guess we'll find out. If not, we'll see how much they interfere. I do have a little extra material so I can counterbore the holes slightly if need be.
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: connieklr on November 24, 2017, 01:12:01 pm
And finally, my grousing about a local metals distributor no longer selling drops - no longer an elevated blood pressure issue for me.

Found out from a local biker friend (actually the fella I was doing the BSA crank work for, and making some bits for his drill mill), that a Metal Supermarkets (https://www.metalsupermarkets.com/richmond-virginia/ (https://www.metalsupermarkets.com/richmond-virginia/)) store is in town that specializes in material small quantities.

The place is right around the corner from where I (and MOB later) used to work, altho' they weren't around when I was there. MOB may have already known about the place - dunno. If he did, he didn't say anything.

Regardless, we're happy.
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: connie_rider on November 24, 2017, 01:53:06 pm
Bud, that gives me  an idea  (A project) for connieklr to consider..

Since he has the valve cover off anyway, has lots of free time, and just happens to have a mill with shavings already on it,,   >:D
Why not machine away the lip of the 2 ports before installing his covers??
No one else has that on their C-10...

I know I'd do it, if I just happened to have a mill and wanted to practice my skills,,, etc etc...   ;)

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: Bud on November 24, 2017, 02:13:07 pm
That sounds like a plan!  It's almost as much fun as spending someone else's money!   :)
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: connieklr on November 24, 2017, 03:07:45 pm
Bud, that gives me  an idea  (A project) for connieklr to consider..

Since he has the valve cover off anyway, has lots of free time, and just happens to have a mill with shavings already on it,,   >:D
Why not machine away the lip of the 2 ports before installing his covers??
No one else has that on their C-10...

I know I'd do it, if I just happened to have a mill and wanted to practice my skills,,, etc etc...   ;)

Ride safe, Ted

Heck, IF I was going to go to that extreme, I'd machine off the lips of the ports, the flange areas of my pieces turning them into "slugs," and just weld those suckers up.

Oh darn - I'm almost out of argon. That project will just have to wait.............
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: connieklr on November 24, 2017, 05:10:46 pm
If the air ports are tapped and plugged securely, why not make the block-off plate so that it lays in the recess of the valve cover where the reed valves were and flush with the top?  A couple of the reasons I've heard to install block-off plates is that it cleans up the area and makes it easier to remove the cover.  The plate could be held in with high temp adhesive of some sort.  With the current setup I have, you still end up taking those four bolts out to get max clearance to remove that pesky valve cover.  It would be more difficult to go back to stock, but it would give the most clearance come valve check time and also the cleanest look.

And yes, that is what I am finding. Even with the button head screws, I still had to remove the LH block off plate I made to get the valve cover in place.  ~2.5mm seems to make all the difference in the world, as are the hollow dowels, which I pulled out of the cover for additional clearance. They have always been a PITA on my bike.

The RH side cover can compress the coolant line. so it's really not a factor.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycle-Repair/C10-Connie-Air-Injection-Removal/i-nnPmjC8/0/0784e80a/L/IMG_3694-L.jpg)

I'll play with this thing later, but time to shift gears. The HD croaked on my garage computer, new one just arrived, so it's game on for computer repair.

Always something.   :(
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: JimBob on November 24, 2017, 07:47:46 pm
If the air ports are tapped and plugged securely, why not make the block-off plate so that it lays in the recess of the valve cover where the reed valves were and flush with the top?  A couple of the reasons I've heard to install block-off plates is that it cleans up the area and makes it easier to remove the cover.  The plate could be held in with high temp adhesive of some sort.  With the current setup I have, you still end up taking those four bolts out to get max clearance to remove that pesky valve cover.  It would be more difficult to go back to stock, but it would give the most clearance come valve check time and also the cleanest look.


That’s what I did, Bud - cut them out of some old aluminum scrap I had lying around, using a jig saw and then cleaned up using my dremel - sitting on the back step. Not super pretty, but with a quick shot of whatever black paint I had lying around, some gaskets made from a roll of material, and a few button-cap screws from the collection and other than time they were free. And I didn’t tap the head. That was thousands of miles ago and no leaks.
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: Locomotiveman on November 24, 2017, 09:33:49 pm
Myself, I put the Block-off plates on for 3 basic reasons. 1. To free up precious space when pulling the cover. 2. Eliminating Ugliness, possible vacuum leaks and whatnot. 3. Simplify, simplify, simplify. I am puzzled why someone would NOT do it....   Locomotiveman

Not trying to get in anybodies face here but this is why I never did it on my C10s.

The system causes no penalty whatsoever to performance when functioning properly and reduces emissions by admitting fresh air into the exhaust system under relatively heavy acceleration to help pollutants burn before they reach the atmosphere. That's a win/win in my book.
It's more an Access thing... less clutter, less leaks, less hoses to fail, less oily air going hither and non.  It does NOT reduce emissions. It's a 'feel good' thingie. Kinda like charging an Electric Car with juice from a Power Plant, letting forests burn in a 'No Logging Zone', having Kenworth's haul recycled Glass to a landfill or horrid Rubber hose factories making anti-Smog hoses.  Let's agree to disagree...or not.

The way I see it is the benefits of removing the AIS don't outweigh the advantages of leaving it in, so I don't really understand why folk do it.

To each their own.  ;)
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: connieklr on November 24, 2017, 10:23:40 pm
Bud, that gives me  an idea  (A project) for connieklr to consider..

Since he has the valve cover off anyway, has lots of free time, and just happens to have a mill with shavings already on it,,   >:D
Why not machine away the lip of the 2 ports before installing his covers??
No one else has that on their C-10...

I know I'd do it, if I just happened to have a mill and wanted to practice my skills,,, etc etc...   ;)

Ride safe, Ted

Not only can you be considered as "slave labor," but also a freakin' instigator.

After seeing that my skinny plates still were too high by an approx. 2.5mm for "easy" (Ha!!!) valve cover removal, I am seriously considering what you mentioned above - kinda, sorta.

The mill and surrounding area has already been cleaned up, but thinking of pulling out the set screws, cleaning up the yukky aluminum with a die grinder, and just welding up the holes. Once that's done, mill the cast lips around the reed area down to near the gasket surface then refit the plates I made. if I fook up - well - they're some out there that are relatively cheap.

I'll flip a coin and go from there.

On another note, new HD install seemed to go okay for the garage computer and I just need to install all the miscellaneous crap to make it fully usable for the stuff I do out there.

Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: Locomotiveman on November 24, 2017, 11:57:37 pm
Why didn't WE/ I  think of that... Milling down the covers. Brilliant.
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: m in sc on November 25, 2017, 04:27:39 pm
why not use countersunk screws, even cleaner, and reduce some height?

Like said, mines still on, i see no issues with it. one reason i did leave it on, is since it draws air from the airbox, it will, in theory, also put a slightly cooler charge in the exhaust pipe. considering the propensity of these bikes melting the fans, i don't see this as a bad possible side effect.


(for those scratching their heads, NO i never thought it was part of the crankcase ventilation system, it was to gauge what kind of reaction would be given to an obviously incorrect answer by a certain member.  )

has anybody tested the egt with and without the air valves plugged vs open on the same bike?




 

Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: Brooke_Benfield_OR on November 25, 2017, 05:25:17 pm
has anybody tested the egt with and without the air valves plugged vs open on the same bike?

That would have to be done while running down the road with a good load applied or on a dyno since no air is admitted into the exhaust until the intake manifold vacuum is low (open throttle).

I'd say the EGT should be higher with the air valves contributing air into the exhaust system.
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: connieklr on November 26, 2017, 11:22:47 am
why not use countersunk screws, even cleaner, and reduce some height?

Like said, mines still on, i see no issues with it. one reason i did leave it on, is since it draws air from the airbox, it will, in theory, also put a slightly cooler charge in the exhaust pipe. considering the propensity of these bikes melting the fans, i don't see this as a bad possible side effect.

(for those scratching their heads, NO i never thought it was part of the crankcase ventilation system, it was to gauge what kind of reaction would be given to an obviously incorrect answer by a certain member.  )

has anybody tested the egt with and without the air valves plugged vs open on the same bike?

On my bike, as mentioned, the screws weren't the issue; it was the cover plates themselves. 2.5mm seems to make all the difference in the world. I'll either have to resign myself to the fact that at least one of the covers still has to come off, or really reduce the height of the pocket areas by machining them down.
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: Outback Jon on November 26, 2017, 04:04:19 pm
If the air ports are tapped and plugged securely, why not make the block-off plate so that it lays in the recess of the valve cover where the reed valves were and flush with the top?  A couple of the reasons I've heard to install block-off plates is that it cleans up the area and makes it easier to remove the cover.  The plate could be held in with high temp adhesive of some sort.  With the current setup I have, you still end up taking those four bolts out to get max clearance to remove that pesky valve cover.  It would be more difficult to go back to stock, but it would give the most clearance come valve check time and also the cleanest look.

Appreciate the suggestion. I actually considered that, but decided on the full cover plates instead.

One of the reasons for going with the button head screws is because of their low profile. Whether they'll be low enough without removal? Guess we'll find out. If not, we'll see how much they interfere. I do have a little extra material so I can counterbore the holes slightly if need be.
I have to remove one screw to get my valve cover off.  For some reason, that one (I think it is the leftmost one) just doesn't clear the frame.  All the others do.  Next time I remove the cover, I'm going to grind that screw down just enough to make it fit.
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: WillyP on November 26, 2017, 05:33:13 pm
Why didn't WE/ I  think of that... Milling down the covers. Brilliant.

Or you could get a Canadian valve cover.
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: connie_rider on November 26, 2017, 11:05:45 pm
I wuz just suggesting you remove the top lip (approx. 2.5MM) and install your plates.
Not remove the whole thing and or weld it up.

But, I like your style....... {kinda}  :)

Since he has the valve cover off anyway, has lots of free time, and just happens to have a mill with shavings already on it,,

Hmmm, mebbe ya could use a fly cutter, remove the 2.5 mm lip,  and shave the fins/etc too???   :sign0137:
  {Would make the removal/installation a lot easier, "and" the shiny/unpainted fins would look cool.........}

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: m in sc on November 27, 2017, 07:53:34 pm

[/quote]

That would have to be done while running down the road with a good load applied or on a dyno since no air is admitted into the exhaust until the intake manifold vacuum is low (open throttle).

I'd say the EGT should be higher with the air valves contributing air into the exhaust system.
[/quote]

explain your theory here. pulling cooler air into the exhaust will make the temps go up.. exaclty how? the fuel shouldn't be combusting in the exhaust system, if it is, its popping. 
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: Brooke_Benfield_OR on November 28, 2017, 10:02:50 pm
My theory is that there is some sort of chemical reaction that goes on in the exhaust system when fresh air is introduced that would make the temperature higher. I'd also say that there isn't very much raw fuel in the exhaust stream so the introduction of fresh air doesn't excite things to the level of creating a pop.

But...I don't actually know if the temperature ends up being elevated or diminished. It's just an opinion and worth everything I was paid for offering it.  ;D

Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: m in sc on November 29, 2017, 05:24:34 am
ok, so upon reading up on it, (in particular, the yamaha ais system being similar) yes.. it causes oxidation in the system, causing heat as a result. i stand corrected. i always thought the extra heat from catalyzed systems was from the converter restriction (on those equipped with), not the air pump.  but the air pump or air injection alone does cause it as well, like on the connie. Hm.  Now i know.  :beerchug:
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: connieklr on November 30, 2017, 03:07:06 pm
And finally, my grousing about a local metals distributor no longer selling drops - no longer an elevated blood pressure issue for me.

Found out from a local biker friend (actually the fella I was doing the BSA crank work for, and making some bits for his drill mill), that a Metal Supermarkets (https://www.metalsupermarkets.com/richmond-virginia/ (https://www.metalsupermarkets.com/richmond-virginia/)) store is in town that specializes in material small quantities.

The place is right around the corner from where I (and MOB later) used to work, altho' they weren't around when I was there. MOB may have already known about the place - dunno. If he did, he didn't say anything.

Regardless, we're happy.

I made it over to the potential new source for my metal needs this morning, and they had exactly what I was looking for earlier. They had an ~18" x 9" x 1/4" drop that just barely squeezed into the aluminum pannier on my KLR. Price was just a tad over $15. We're happy.

The folks are super nice too and they have a SL of stuff in their warehouse. I'll be back, but not today. I got what I needed for now.
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: connie_rider on November 30, 2017, 03:17:20 pm
OK, what are ya building now??

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: connieklr on November 30, 2017, 04:28:53 pm
OK, what are ya building now??

Ride safe, Ted

Uh, spares. Yeah, that's the ticket, spares.   :rotflmao:
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: connieklr on November 30, 2017, 04:31:16 pm
I suppose this might be considered a little overkill for the plug where the airline came out of the air box, huh?

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycle-Repair/C10-Connie-Air-Injection-Removal/i-FdGXz8Q/0/c49025ce/L/IMG_3701-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycle-Repair/C10-Connie-Air-Injection-Removal/i-Dx8QWGr/0/7443bbe1/L/IMG_3702-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycle-Repair/C10-Connie-Air-Injection-Removal/i-sx2KJLb/0/6f428231/L/IMG_3704-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycle-Repair/C10-Connie-Air-Injection-Removal/i-zbGGCm6/1/0d9d8f7f/L/IMG_3703-L.jpg)

Seriously, I looked in the box and a couple of hardware stores and couldn't find one that was the correct size with the grommet removed.... and duct tape just wasn't gonna cut it..... figured it'd come loose anyway. So, fire up the lathe and crank one out. Turned it so it is a firm fit, but secured it anyway with some Permatex Gasket Maker RTV. She ain't going no where.
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: m in sc on November 30, 2017, 04:40:11 pm
looks right to me.  :great: was thinking of that this morning, might do this in the spring when the weather warms up to reduce exhaust heat. was a welcome feeling this morning though on the way into work.
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: connie_rider on November 30, 2017, 04:55:35 pm
Iiiii "LIKE IT"!!!

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: connieklr on November 30, 2017, 07:25:42 pm
Since I'm trying to get this bike prepped for a longer trip I really don't want to make on the KLR, I elected to NOT turn the cover down to lower the reed chambers height and started putting it back together. Of course, you wonder if you got the gasket properly in place so it doesn't leak. Having been a very long time since I've been through this maneuver, I was trying to pay really close attention....... which, of course, means it'll probably leak.   :( We'll find that out tomorrow once I get it running.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycle-Repair/C10-Connie-Air-Injection-Removal/i-6dbdr3h/0/b49f0c59/L/IMG_3707-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycle-Repair/C10-Connie-Air-Injection-Removal/i-3S9XsrK/0/36b0a18d/L/IMG_3706-L.jpg)


Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: connieklr on November 30, 2017, 07:28:30 pm
Why didn't WE/ I  think of that... Milling down the covers. Brilliant.

Or you could get a Canadian valve cover.

Looked around for one, but they seem to be pretty rare. Parts outlets say the OEM version is no longer available.
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: connieklr on January 28, 2018, 09:03:33 pm
FINALLY, after several cold weather and postponed colonoscopy ($hitty excuse) delays, I was finally able to make a little headway over the last few days and piece the bike back together and get it running again. On the bench it sounds really good, and much better than it did before I started all this mess. Put the Twin Max on it and the carbs are dead nuts of being in balance, even after all the fooling around I did with them.

If the rain holds off tomorrow, we'll stick some of the other plastic on it and see how it does on the road. For now, I'm happy.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycle-Repair/C10-Connie-Air-Injection-Removal/i-2cFRVC4/0/28244e36/L/0128081625a-L.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycle-Repair/C10-Connie-Air-Injection-Removal/i-JwqKGJn/0/cf6dc373/L/0128081625-L.jpg)



Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: connie_rider on January 29, 2018, 02:35:50 pm
Congrats on the progress.

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: connieklr on January 29, 2018, 06:36:54 pm
Congrats on the progress.

Ride safe, Ted

Appreciate it.

Rain's not backing off, and the yard is mush; we'll wait.
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: connieklr on February 06, 2018, 03:56:40 pm
Probably the final post on this topic......

Finally decided to brave the mushy yard and got the Connie out for about a 10 mile test run to the drug store. So far, VERY happy with the jetting/shimming changes I'd made. I'm sure my normal 50mpg+ long-trip mileage will suffer, but for now - who cares - the bike runs clean and that was my main goal. I did do Steve's "Free Power Mod" after I initially got the bike running, even tho' it sounded good on the bench. Figured what-the-heck...... why not?

Did do it a little differently. I skinnied back the black/yellow wire's insulation up near the igniter, then soldered in a length of 16ga. wire and ran it back to the battery's negative terminal. In lieu of adding a ring terminal, I cleaned off the top the existing heavy ground lug bolted to the battery with a Dremel wire brush, tinned, then soldered the end of the 16ga. wire directly to it. After taping up the nekked wire area and securing the wire with small zip ties, it made for a very neat install.

Time to install the rest of the plastic.
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: connieklr on May 03, 2018, 03:44:24 pm
Not that anyone cares, I've finally been able to get out and put a couple hundred miles on the bike since doing all of the above "stuff."

I am extremely pleased with the way things turned out and the way it is cleanly running. Don't have enough straight-line miles on it yet to see how badly the gas mileage has been affected (if any), but the needle appears to be dropping at about the same rate as it did during my daily commuting trips.

As far as I'm concerned, this whole adventure was a success.
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: GKreamer on May 04, 2018, 12:13:58 am
I enjoyed reading your thread and the pictures of the work you did!
Title: Re: Air Injection System Removal
Post by: connieklr on May 05, 2018, 10:25:26 am
I enjoyed reading your thread and the pictures of the work you did!

Thank you.