Author Topic: all four carbs leak suddenly  (Read 1008 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Jake

  • Big Wheels
  • Posts: 6
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
all four carbs leak suddenly
« on: May 29, 2018, 12:55:19 pm »
Hello,
I have an 88 zg1000. Runs great but this spring, after filling it up for the first time, it developed a leak from all four carbs simultaneously. I can't say for sure it wasn't leaking from any of them prior to this, but the bike now makes my garage smell like gas in about an hour where previously there was no smell. Before I dig into the carbs, could the petcock be failing and causing this issue? thanks

Offline Harry Martin

  • ☺ Cartoonist ☺
  • Industry Member
  • Crotch Rocket
  • *
  • Posts: 1331
  • Fear is not boring
    • Harry Martin Cartoons
  • AREA: Northwest Area
  • COG#: 4090
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: all four carbs leak suddenly
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2018, 01:31:44 pm »
Hi Jake,

Well, if it was my bike, I'd be looking for a leak from the tank, petcock, and carbs.
I'm no expert, but I don't see how all four carbs could suddenly start leaking at the same time. Maybe one float is stuck open making it seem like all four are stuck open. I'm sure smarter folks will have better suggestions.

The petcock has a small hole where fuel can slowly leak to indicate the petcock needs to be replaced. If it has gone bad, it will leak no matter what position the lever is in.
Harry in Wild and Windy Casper, WY - 1986 Vintage "Silverdammit" - 2015 "Greendammit"
Please buy my Road Rash Motorcycle Cartoon Book

Offline ConcoursKZ

  • Sport Tourer
  • *****
  • Posts: 2739
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: all four carbs leak suddenly
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2018, 02:11:01 pm »
Whatever you do don't start that bike until you fix the carb issue or you are going to  Hydrolock the bike. Sorry edited voice to text
« Last Edit: May 29, 2018, 03:40:03 pm by ConcoursKZ »
2008 Concours ABS 1976 KZ 900 B1   CDA#387
“Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.”

Offline Mettler1

  • Iron Butt
  • *****
  • Posts: 3260
  • You want answers? We got answers!!
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 1431
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: all four carbs leak suddenly
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2018, 03:29:05 pm »
   Hydrolock??


            Watch this video.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W6k3pTdAXw&feature=plcp

   Basically what we are saying IS do NOT hit the starter until you find out why the carbs are leaking!! If gas is leaking out of the carbs it can also leak gas into the cyls  causing the dreaded HYDROLOCK!! Result is quite often a bent rod. :'(

  Find and fix the gas leak from the carbs!! 

   Oh, and welcome to the Concours forum!! :)
'94 Concours 115,000 miles-- 7th gear,2MM,KB fork brace,Over flowtubes,Stick coils,Tcro shifter,GPS,SiSF'sTorque cams,SPOOKFAK,block off plates, SS brake & clutch lines,KB risers, FENDA EXTENDA, emulators, SiSF carb Spa, Delkevic exhaust, Murphs' knee savers +grips, etc

Offline Jake

  • Big Wheels
  • Posts: 6
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: all four carbs leak suddenly
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2018, 05:20:51 pm »
thanks everyone. advice heeded.

Offline connieklr

  • Street Cruiser
  • ****
  • Posts: 831
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: 1608
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: all four carbs leak suddenly
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2018, 07:33:01 pm »
And as a precaution after you've figured out why the carbs were leaking and have it fixed, recommend highly you pull the tank, plug wires, and pull the plugs BEFORE trying to crank it over. That way if there is gas in the cylinders, you'll pump it out without the fear of hydraulicing, and bending a rod. Recommend doing that outside and cover the head area with an old towel to better protect your eyes.

Also, if you find that there is gas in one or more cylinders, you might want to consider changing the oil/filter JIC it's become diluted with gas.
________________
Guy Young
COG #1608
COG Life Member
Semi-Civilian
GB Young Services, LLC

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

  • Industry Member
  • I Need a Life
  • *
  • Posts: 7666
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 6977
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: all four carbs leak suddenly
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2018, 07:52:50 pm »
pull the power wire off the coils. You don't want connie flambe  :-[  Steve
C-14 ECU flashing for performance and rideability enhancement
C-10 Carb work , cams, & performance enhancements
 " Modifications for sport-tourers, BY a sport-tourer"
https://sites.google.com/site/shoodabenengineering/home

Offline Mettler1

  • Iron Butt
  • *****
  • Posts: 3260
  • You want answers? We got answers!!
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 1431
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: all four carbs leak suddenly
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2018, 09:52:01 pm »
pull the power wire off the coils. You don't want connie flambe  :-[  Steve


  Never thought of that. :-[  Usually pull the negative cable off the battery and make sure it's not grounded.
'94 Concours 115,000 miles-- 7th gear,2MM,KB fork brace,Over flowtubes,Stick coils,Tcro shifter,GPS,SiSF'sTorque cams,SPOOKFAK,block off plates, SS brake & clutch lines,KB risers, FENDA EXTENDA, emulators, SiSF carb Spa, Delkevic exhaust, Murphs' knee savers +grips, etc

Online MAN OF BLUES

  • I Need a Life
  • ******
  • Posts: 7991
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 5977
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: all four carbs leak suddenly
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2018, 10:32:33 pm »
pull the power wire off the coils. You don't want connie flambe  :-[  Steve


  Never thought of that. :-[  Usually pull the negative cable off the battery and make sure it's not grounded.

makes it a bit difficult to spin the engine over that way..... :)) >:D

30 YEARS OF KAW.....Rich R. (the other one..)  COG 5977  JUSTAMEMBAHNOW
and if you are gonna call me names... it's MR. Analdweeb if you please...

Offline Nosmo

  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1925
  • "We're all in this together" -- Red Green
  • AREA: Northwest Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: all four carbs leak suddenly
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2018, 10:59:40 pm »
pull the power wire off the coils. You don't want connie flambe  :-[  Steve


  Never thought of that. :-[  Usually pull the negative cable off the battery and make sure it's not grounded.

makes it a bit difficult to spin the engine over that way..... :)) >:D

Aww, come on MOB, you remember this, don't you?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DArvPMlxHeQ
2003 Connie    2007 Wee-Strom   

"What could possibly go wrong...click....go wrong...click...go wrong...click...go wrong..."

Online Bud

  • Street Cruiser
  • ****
  • Posts: 709
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: all four carbs leak suddenly
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2018, 11:14:50 pm »
pull the power wire off the coils. You don't want connie flambe  :-[  Steve


  Never thought of that. :-[  Usually pull the negative cable off the battery and make sure it's not grounded.

makes it a bit difficult to spin the engine over that way..... :)) >:D

Aww, come on MOB, you remember this, don't you?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DArvPMlxHeQ


Where'd you find that pic of Rich's first car? :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :D

Offline Jake

  • Big Wheels
  • Posts: 6
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: all four carbs leak suddenly
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2018, 01:17:23 pm »
i was planning on pulling the tank and voiding the cylinders tonight. it's a pretty slow leak, so i'm not terribly worried, but i will take caution.

i'll then drain the tank and replace or rebuild the petcock this weekend. probably going to go with a manual conversion. i've ridden bikes with manual petcocks for 20 years, so not turning off the gas when i park has been a bit weird for me anyhow.

thanks everyone for your advice.

Offline Mettler1

  • Iron Butt
  • *****
  • Posts: 3260
  • You want answers? We got answers!!
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 1431
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: all four carbs leak suddenly
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2018, 01:57:33 pm »

    Good idea but actually the carb floats and needles are the last thing to keep gas from running into the cyls. Even if the shut off fails the carbs should stop the gas if they are working properly.


  Also could be a leaky float bowl or other carb parts leaking.  ::)
'94 Concours 115,000 miles-- 7th gear,2MM,KB fork brace,Over flowtubes,Stick coils,Tcro shifter,GPS,SiSF'sTorque cams,SPOOKFAK,block off plates, SS brake & clutch lines,KB risers, FENDA EXTENDA, emulators, SiSF carb Spa, Delkevic exhaust, Murphs' knee savers +grips, etc

Offline connie_rider

  • "OtP" {retired/assistant} Slave Labor
  • I Need a Life
  • ******
  • Posts: 8380
  • Help us make "OtP" possible! "AGAIN"
  • AREA: South Central Area
  • COG#: 4154
  • Membership Level: Asst. Area Director
Re: all four carbs leak suddenly
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2018, 04:41:30 pm »
Did you accidentally have the petcock in prime?

If the carbs are leaking, just repairing the petcock is not the fix you need.
Regardless of a petcock problem, the carbs should not leak.

All 4 leaking is an indication of float/needle valve/float level problems.

Ride safe, Ted
14 Connie (Traveler II) / 03 Connie (Buddy)
Gone but not forgotten; 87 and 00 Connies..

If your not already a COGger, "consider becoming one".
Help us make "OtP" possible again, DO IT NOW!!

Offline Jake

  • Big Wheels
  • Posts: 6
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: all four carbs leak suddenly
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2018, 05:55:00 pm »
No, the petcock was not on prime. I did check that.

I understand that the petcock is not the last fix I will have to make, and that the carbs need to be addressed as well. But if anything is leaking to the degree it is, the petcock does need to be fixed, so doing it first does me no harm that I know of.

My guess is that the carbs (floats, needles, whatever) failed a while ago, but the petcock masked the issue. When the petcock failed, whatever issues has accumulated downstream of it were exposed en masse.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I don't mind wrenching and I never really liked the idea of the automatic petcock anyhow. I'll report back with results to close the loop. Thanks again to all for your help.


Offline Thud300

  • Taking the long way everywhere
  • Street Cruiser
  • ****
  • Posts: 807
  • my YouTube channel: "ToastRider"
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: all four carbs leak suddenly
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2018, 10:06:51 pm »
Curious to know if any additives were put in the fuel prior to storage?
Returning old Kawis to riding glory since 2014
1998 Concours "Connimus Prime"  CDA #555
1991 Voyager XII "Xaviera"
1989 454 LTD "Merlin"

Online MAN OF BLUES

  • I Need a Life
  • ******
  • Posts: 7991
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 5977
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: all four carbs leak suddenly
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2018, 10:42:03 pm »
pull the power wire off the coils. You don't want connie flambe  :-[  Steve



  Never thought of that. :-[  Usually pull the negative cable off the battery and make sure it's not grounded.


makes it a bit difficult to spin the engine over that way..... :)) >:D


Aww, come on MOB, you remember this, don't you?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DArvPMlxHeQ


Where'd you find that pic of Rich's first car? :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :D


 I had much more class than that... my 351 Hemi '56 Dodge Coronet, hand me down from Dad, to sister, to me... badazzzzz car..... party mobile...

followed by at least 3 of these....
3 of which DID have handcrank starter adaptations... and needed them....
 then a nicer older car... that looked exactly like this... and hand crank option also... and also, needed it....


then, one of these... badazz also.......


then....

partycar extraordinair... mega fun....

but it went all downhill after that... i got married, and sold all of the last 4 I had, to buy.....
first BRAND NEW car... Levi's edition, '75, Gremlin-X, 304V8, 3 spd, posi, quad stereo...... loaded..... $3750 OTD price.



 :motonoises: :motonoises: :great:

so, yeah, I did own cars with hand cranks... but Ted beats me on hand crank cars.... :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

30 YEARS OF KAW.....Rich R. (the other one..)  COG 5977  JUSTAMEMBAHNOW
and if you are gonna call me names... it's MR. Analdweeb if you please...

Offline Nosmo

  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1925
  • "We're all in this together" -- Red Green
  • AREA: Northwest Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: all four carbs leak suddenly
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2018, 12:31:27 am »
My friend Jerry in high school had a '55 New Yorker he got from his Dad....yeah, party car!  Too "fuddy-duddy" for the cops to worry about, and we could get 150 cases of beer in the trunk and a twelve piece marching band in the rear seat.   Along with a few girls.  Small block Hemi and 2-speed Torqueflight as I recall.

My '65 Sunbeam Alpine had a handcrank.  I did it once just to see....worked fine.
2003 Connie    2007 Wee-Strom   

"What could possibly go wrong...click....go wrong...click...go wrong...click...go wrong..."

Offline Jake

  • Big Wheels
  • Posts: 6
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: all four carbs leak suddenly
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2018, 12:40:53 pm »
Curious to know if any additives were put in the fuel prior to storage?

Non-oxy gas with the recommended dosage of Stabil. It didn't leak for the first two or three weeks of the season.

Tank is off and drained. Cylinders cleared. After confirming cleared I ran the engine sans tank until it ran out of fuel.

Kit is ordered for the petcock. I'll be looking into the carbs, etc this weekend.

Offline JPD

  • Training Wheels
  • *
  • Posts: 89
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: 12064
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: all four carbs leak suddenly
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2018, 01:28:29 pm »
Did you find the source of the fuel leak? You should be looking as you disassemble things to find where the fuel was coming from, not just repairing items. As stated early on fuel can come from several different areas. A little bit of fuel can make a big smell in a closed garage. Rebuilding the petcock is a start but did you check to see if it was bad. Disconnect lines to carbs and see if it leaks without vacuum and flows fuel with vacuum supplied. Is fuel coming out of the diaphragm vent, is a fuel line leaking at the petcock or fuel rail on the carbs. Did you over fill the tank on a cold day and move the bike into a heated garage and it is venting from the overflow tube from the tank? Bad float valves in the carbs would need to also have a leaking petcock to cause a leak with the bike not running and not in the prime position.
When I had a single float stick the bike wouldn't idle well and I could smell raw gas in the exhaust. The petcock was working correctly so no leaks with the bike off.

Offline Jake

  • Big Wheels
  • Posts: 6
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: all four carbs leak suddenly
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2018, 03:25:54 pm »
haven't found the source yet, i will begin looking this weekend. i had been placing rags under the carbs for a couple nights and they were soaked in gas overnight.

i confirmed the gas flowed freely through the petcock with the lever in the run position regardless of vacuum.
 

Offline kkja13

  • Mini Bike
  • **
  • Posts: 157
  • Tyler, TX
  • AREA: South Central Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: all four carbs leak suddenly
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2018, 02:25:12 pm »
If the gas flowed freely in the ON position then the petcock is bad.  It should only run freely in the PRIME position.
2004 C10
2003 Suzuki SV650s
2000 Kawasaki Eliminator 125 (75mpg!)
1993 Suzuki DR350; 1984 Honda XR200R (RFVC); 1985 Yamaha PW80; 1975 Yamaha DT175;
1974 Honda ST90; 1973 Honda Z50 (first bike, still runs)

Offline Mettler1

  • Iron Butt
  • *****
  • Posts: 3260
  • You want answers? We got answers!!
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 1431
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: all four carbs leak suddenly
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2018, 03:52:03 pm »
  Replace the petcock if you wish BUT the carbs are still the problem. Even if the petcock is on prime you still should not get ANY gas leak at the carbs!!! Fix the carbs.
'94 Concours 115,000 miles-- 7th gear,2MM,KB fork brace,Over flowtubes,Stick coils,Tcro shifter,GPS,SiSF'sTorque cams,SPOOKFAK,block off plates, SS brake & clutch lines,KB risers, FENDA EXTENDA, emulators, SiSF carb Spa, Delkevic exhaust, Murphs' knee savers +grips, etc

Offline JPD

  • Training Wheels
  • *
  • Posts: 89
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: 12064
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: all four carbs leak suddenly
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2018, 06:12:53 pm »
Ok fix the petcock, but if you were leaking gas on to rags under the carbs you still have another problem to find. If you didn't find any leaks from the lines look at the carb floats.
After you cleared the cylinders and ran the bike, you left it with fuel in the tank and it leaked from the carb area?
DO NOT START WITHOUT CLEARING THE CYLINDERS AGAIN.
I was able to remove the air filter and see fuel leaking in the carb body when my float stuck. That way I knew the one that was bad.