Author Topic: Anyone Have Any Experience with Overbore Kits?  (Read 792 times)

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Offline ZX6Rob

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Anyone Have Any Experience with Overbore Kits?
« on: September 11, 2017, 10:10:53 pm »
Hey, all,

I had an idle thought the other day.  Wiseco makes a 1039cc overbore kit for the GPz1000RX and ZG1000 Concours.  Has anyone here gone through with an overbore?  What's your experience been?

I was toying with the idea of hot-rodding my motor a bit.  Thought about getting some ZX1000 carbs and cams, but from what I've read, all that really does is shift your power-band way up high, north of 7,000 RPM.  You get more peak power, but you lose too much under the curve and you have to really wind it up to keep it alive.  Not what you want from an all-rounder like Connie.

I'm wondering if it's worth the work to get an extra 40ccs of displacement, and what kind of realistic gains over the entire rev range I would be looking at.  Basically, is it worth the work?  I know that extra 37ccs of displacement on the Ninja 636 made a noticeable difference in midrange oomph over its 599cc competitors, but would this be a case of diminishing returns?

Let me know if you have any experience with over-bored motors!
motorcycle, n. (mō'-dər-sīk-(ə)l) - 1. A large, leaky container of various dangerous, viscous, and difficult-to-clean fluids.

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Offline Bergmen

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Re: Anyone Have Any Experience with Overbore Kits?
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2017, 10:29:23 pm »
Only by doing this:



Modifying and installing the engine from a ZRX1200R.

Dan
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Offline ZX6Rob

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Re: Anyone Have Any Experience with Overbore Kits?
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2017, 02:01:49 am »
Yes, well...  That's significantly more custom than I'm talking about here, though I bet it is a hoot to ride.

I'm more interested in expanding the stock motor a bit, and if anyone has run the Wiseco kit in particular.
motorcycle, n. (mō'-dər-sīk-(ə)l) - 1. A large, leaky container of various dangerous, viscous, and difficult-to-clean fluids.

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Offline connie_rider

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Re: Anyone Have Any Experience with Overbore Kits?
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2017, 02:40:40 am »
I don't know about the 1036 kit, but several have gone the 1052 cc route. (.080" bore)
The 1052 is done by buying and installing pistons and/or rods from other Kawasaki's...
   {I forget the combination that is required, but we could find the info}.

Bottom line; To go to 1052 cc it's a bit more work than just a bore job, but it is more displacement.

For cams, prolly best to buy Steve's Torque cams or just the advance sprocket.
Keeps the power down low and increases torque.

Ride safe, Ted
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Anyone Have Any Experience with Overbore Kits?
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2017, 03:14:39 am »
Wiseco is 3 miles from my house.. I've only used one kit, from them, in 40 years, and even that kit didn't give me warm fuzzies and untold invisible hp..
So.... hone you're cylinders correctly, install new rings and gap them, and enjoy..
There are sooooo many connies out there with 100k plus, to argue with perfection.. you want horsepower? Buy another bike. And keep the old girl as a trusted steed.

Jmho

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Offline Rev Ryder

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Re: Anyone Have Any Experience with Overbore Kits?
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2017, 03:21:10 am »
I don't know about the 1036 kit, but several have gone the 1052 cc route. (.080" bore)
The 1052 is done by buying and installing pistons and/or rods from other Kawasaki's...
  {I forget the combination that is required, but we could find the info}.

Bottom line; To go to 1052 cc it's a bit more work than just a bore job, but it is more displacement.

For cams, prolly best to buy Steve's Torque cams or just the advance sprocket.
Keeps the power down low and increases torque.

Ride safe, Ted
I believe that is ZRX1100 slugs on ZX10B rods
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Offline connie_rider

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Re: Anyone Have Any Experience with Overbore Kits?
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2017, 01:03:30 pm »
Thanks Rev.
That's 1 option and it's probably the most work as the rods have to be changed.
  I have these pistons and rods and hope to someday install them. {maybe}...
Another 1052 option is just pistons from "X" Kawasaki and a stock Connie Rods.
After the bore job, the cylinder has to be decked..
   Steve sells special cam sprockets to adjust cam timing for the shortened deck.

Anyone recall what pistons those are?

Ride safe, Ted

PS: I'm in agreement with MOB.
         If you buy cams, freshen the engine, add the carbs your talking about, you'd get more bang for your buck.
         Not as much bang {as also doing the bore}, but a lot.

      NOTE: I have the parts to build a 1052. But I opted to buy a C-14 and keep the C-10 for a spare.
                 If I wasn't sooooo happy with both bikes {and so lazy}, I'd be doing the 1052 just "because"..
                 That's why I sed I plan to do the install {Maybe}.

« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 01:10:09 pm by connie_rider »
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Offline Herbie

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Re: Anyone Have Any Experience with Overbore Kits?
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2017, 01:34:11 pm »
Or you could buy one that's already done, its for sale cheap in the emporium. I see your a long way from each other, maybe you could PM him and ask him about the build anyway

http://forum.cog-online.org/c-10-emporium/1999-zg1000-for-sale/
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 02:19:31 pm by Herbie »

Offline ZX6Rob

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Re: Anyone Have Any Experience with Overbore Kits?
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2017, 03:15:03 pm »
Hm, well, given the expense, it's not really worth it at this point, I'm gathering.  Better just to enjoy the bike as it is.  I'm currently running Steve's torque cams, though with a custom jetting setup from a trusted local shop, and I'm actually quite happy with how the bike runs and what its power delivery feels like, I'm mostly just spitballing here.

If I really get bit by the power bug again, there are probably easier ways to get there than this.  Prices are starting to come down on used C14s, after all...
motorcycle, n. (mō'-dər-sīk-(ə)l) - 1. A large, leaky container of various dangerous, viscous, and difficult-to-clean fluids.

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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Anyone Have Any Experience with Overbore Kits?
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2017, 03:33:42 pm »
yeah, the 2  1052 combinations are

use zrx11 pistons and zx10b rods or

use zx11 pistons on stock rods, and deck the block .020.

of course you could do like I did, just saw the side of the block off and weld it to a zx11 block; deck and bore 2mm and go 1109cc's with falicon chromoly rods. It has proven to be a viable and hearty combination. Steve
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Offline ZX6Rob

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Re: Anyone Have Any Experience with Overbore Kits?
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2017, 03:41:06 pm »
Steve, you've done more than a few engine builds.  How does something like that affect overall durability and engine longevity?  Assuming it's done well, with work performed by a competent machinist and mechanic, does it significantly impact the lifetime of the engine?
motorcycle, n. (mō'-dər-sīk-(ə)l) - 1. A large, leaky container of various dangerous, viscous, and difficult-to-clean fluids.

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Offline Jim Snyder

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Re: Anyone Have Any Experience with Overbore Kits?
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2017, 04:29:45 pm »
Hm, well, given the expense, it's not really worth it at this point, I'm gathering.  Better just to enjoy the bike as it is.  I'm currently running Steve's torque cams, though with a custom jetting setup from a trusted local shop, and I'm actually quite happy with how the bike runs and what its power delivery feels like, I'm mostly just spitballing here.

If I really get bit by the power bug again, there are probably easier ways to get there than this.  Prices are starting to come down on used C14s, after all...

ZX, what type of jetting did your local guru do? Have you considered Steves 2MM jetting solution? I have the torque cams with the 2MM jetting and the exhaust sproket with stock cylinders and mine is a monster in the lower RPM range. Of course I am running a 4 into 1 exhaust which does help a little.
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Offline connie_rider

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Re: Anyone Have Any Experience with Overbore Kits?
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2017, 04:40:24 pm »
I have the torque cams with the 2MM jetting and the exhaust sprocket

I didn't know you could run the torque cams "and" the exhaust sprocket??

Ride safe, Ted
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Offline Jim Snyder

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Re: Anyone Have Any Experience with Overbore Kits?
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2017, 05:50:19 pm »
I have the torque cams with the 2MM jetting and the exhaust sprocket

I didn't know you could run the torque cams "and" the exhaust sprocket??

Ride safe, Ted

I use a different hole than the one you are thinking about. But my directions came right from Steve. I believe I am using the stock hole configuration. I sent my original sprocket back to him as the core so I didn't have a spare.
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Offline ZX6Rob

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Re: Anyone Have Any Experience with Overbore Kits?
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2017, 07:05:40 pm »
ZX, what type of jetting did your local guru do? Have you considered Steves 2MM jetting solution? I have the torque cams with the 2MM jetting and the exhaust sproket with stock cylinders and mine is a monster in the lower RPM range. Of course I am running a 4 into 1 exhaust which does help a little.

You know, I'll have to check with them again, it's been quite a while since I had it done.  I might still have the boxes in a storage bin at home, too.  I will see what I can find, but I know it wasn't really a radical change.
motorcycle, n. (mō'-dər-sīk-(ə)l) - 1. A large, leaky container of various dangerous, viscous, and difficult-to-clean fluids.

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Offline Jim Snyder

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Re: Anyone Have Any Experience with Overbore Kits?
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2017, 07:49:13 pm »
ZX, what type of jetting did your local guru do? Have you considered Steves 2MM jetting solution? I have the torque cams with the 2MM jetting and the exhaust sproket with stock cylinders and mine is a monster in the lower RPM range. Of course I am running a 4 into 1 exhaust which does help a little.

You know, I'll have to check with them again, it's been quite a while since I had it done.  I might still have the boxes in a storage bin at home, too.  I will see what I can find, but I know it wasn't really a radical change.

If it was a Dynojet kit you would benefit going with Steve's jet kit. Better mileage and awesome throttle response.
"Some days you're the windshield, and some days you're the bug" Get used to it cause thats life !!!

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Anyone Have Any Experience with Overbore Kits?
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2017, 09:31:33 am »
Steve, you've done more than a few engine builds.  How does something like that affect overall durability and engine longevity?  Assuming it's done well, with work performed by a competent machinist and mechanic, does it significantly impact the lifetime of the engine?

 It's hard to say how long any given engine will last, but so far the 1109 has, at the last I heard, aroud 75,000 miles on it, and they weren't easy miles while I owned it. I do know that swampcat, the Concourier editor who is the current owner, used the bike for a track day this year and also rode it to the national in Missouri from Florida. I personally don't see why a hotrod engine that's well built can't have a long lifespan, as long as the power output doesn't exceed the tolerance of the parts. Steve
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Offline turbo-max

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Re: Anyone Have Any Experience with Overbore Kits?
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2017, 03:04:08 pm »
I personally don't see why a hotrod engine that's well built can't have a long lifespan, as long as the power output doesn't exceed the tolerance of the parts. Steve

i like to exceed the tolerance of parts!  :)
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Offline ZX6Rob

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Re: Anyone Have Any Experience with Overbore Kits?
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2017, 03:21:16 pm »
I personally don't see why a hotrod engine that's well built can't have a long lifespan, as long as the power output doesn't exceed the tolerance of the parts. Steve

i like to exceed the tolerance of parts!  :)

When it comes to boost, enough's more'n you got and less than too much, and there ain't no such thing as too much.
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Offline Swampcat

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Re: Anyone Have Any Experience with Overbore Kits?
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2017, 04:45:27 pm »
Steve, you've done more than a few engine builds.  How does something like that affect overall durability and engine longevity?  Assuming it's done well, with work performed by a competent machinist and mechanic, does it significantly impact the lifetime of the engine?

 It's hard to say how long any given engine will last, but so far the 1109 has, at the last I heard, aroud 75,000 miles on it, and they weren't easy miles while I owned it. I do know that swampcat, the Concourier editor who is the current owner, used the bike for a track day this year and also rode it to the national in Missouri from Florida. I personally don't see why a hotrod engine that's well built can't have a long lifespan, as long as the power output doesn't exceed the tolerance of the parts. Steve

(It's actually right at 73,000 :) )

Longevity is not something that I give much thought to with Shoodaben. Steve had it for the first 53,004 miles and told me he had never been stranded. I've had the same experience. Although my longest day so far was about 750 miles, I've done two longish trips: Florida to Missouri and back this year for the Show Me MO Twisties National, and Florida to Helen, GA for the national last year, then from GA through NC up to Virginia Beach for work and back home (about 3000 miles total). Return trips on both were primarily interstate. Easy peasy. This bike burns the miles more comfortably than most cars.

And as Steve mentioned, I flogged it at the track day last February and rode it to and from the track (250 miles each way).

I have no doubt that with good care and regular maintenance it could go as long as SteveJ's 235K C10.
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Offline turbo-max

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Re: Anyone Have Any Experience with Overbore Kits?
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2017, 10:19:58 pm »
I have no doubt that with good care and regular maintenance it could go as long as SteveJ's 235K C10.

it's at 239,363.2 as of tonight!
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Offline Rev Ryder

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Re: Anyone Have Any Experience with Overbore Kits?
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2017, 12:21:38 am »
I personally don't see why a hotrod engine that's well built can't have a long lifespan, as long as the power output doesn't exceed the tolerance of the parts. Steve

i like to exceed the tolerance of parts!  :)
That's what I do.  I reckon ultimately it's what we all do.
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Offline Rev Ryder

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Re: Anyone Have Any Experience with Overbore Kits?
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2017, 12:22:43 am »
I personally don't see why a hotrod engine that's well built can't have a long lifespan, as long as the power output doesn't exceed the tolerance of the parts. Steve

i like to exceed the tolerance of parts!  :)

When it comes to boost, enough's more'n you got and less than too much, and there ain't no such thing as too much.
A man after my own heart.   :beerchug:
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