Author Topic: batty carb project  (Read 519 times)

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Offline batboy

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batty carb project
« on: June 22, 2019, 02:56:00 pm »
What to do when it's too hot and humid out plus swarms of blood thirsty skeeters due to an unusually wet spring. Work inside the man cave of course. I'm getting ready to disassemble a junk set of carbs to see what I got (see photo). You can never have too many screwdrivers. It's important to use the correct fitting screwdriver. Last time I have 7 screwdrivers for the job. This time I pulled out an even dozen.

DISCLAIMER: Do not work inside the house on carbs if there is still fuel in the bowls. Do not and I repeat, do not use carb cleaner indoors. Solvents (volatile organic compounds) put out toxic fumes and are extremely flammable. On top of all that, you'll be in deep dodo with the wife.

Wait! What the heck? Hey, those aren't Concours carbs!  What's that batty guy up to now?

I picked up a junk set of Voyager ZG1200 carbs for parts. Obviously, I got it cheap. If you see a make offer button on eBay, try it. They'll almost always take 10% off. Since they had jacked up the shipping fees (typical for eBay), I asked for free shipping.

I'm getting ready to dive into these carbs and see what I scored. I hope to be able to use the bowls and drain system. I see the two outer tops are chrome plated. That would look cool. I'll also have a bunch of extra screws in case I lose or damage any on my good set of carbs. Floats, diaphragms, jets, etc. should be interchangeable (but not the slides).

Ok, let's go to work and see what I got. It's almost like playing a slot machine at the casino. I might lose my money or I might hit the jackpot.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2019, 06:02:42 pm by batboy »
1988 Kawasaki Concours ZG1000 - Ninja Edition
Bike has the usual accessories and modifications

Offline bajasam

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Re: batty carb project
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2019, 03:15:32 pm »
Oh man, get rid of that cardboard tray an get one of your wife's big baking cookie sheets for a chem proof work station, dontcha know wives love it when you use their kitchen stuff,makes em feel like your bonding with them...........

Offline Lee

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Re: batty carb project
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2019, 04:52:23 pm »
Score of float bowls with overflow tubes probably worth the price of admission let alone non air cut carbs and other cross over parts, etc, maybe if memory serves. Go for it!

Offline batboy

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Re: batty carb project
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2019, 04:59:25 pm »
A cookie sheet would be near perfect. But, I can tell you're lying about the bonding thing. My wife still holds a bitter grudge from 12 years ago when I used one of her Tupperware containers. No sir, can't trick me. Besides, the cardboard box is just to catch parts that always get dropped and to keep the desk from getting scratched up. No solvents indoors.

This photo shows several things. I stripped one bowl screw head. This is why it's good to have extra parts during a carb rebuild. I used a small pair of vice-grips to remove the screw.

Look at all the corrosion (green gunk) on the main jet of the far right carb (yuck). The float is stuck on that carb too. It's also the carb that was damaged in the accident (see how it's not in line with the others?). There's a broken piece at the air intake opening. Once I pull parts off I can reuse, the rest goes into the trash bin.

However, the main thing I wanted to show was the bowls. This is the real reason I bought these carbs. Lee figured it out. The bowls have OEM overflow tubes. I will inspect closer once they're cleaned up, but the bowls appear to be okay. Looks like I hit the jackpot.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2019, 05:09:09 pm by batboy »
1988 Kawasaki Concours ZG1000 - Ninja Edition
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Offline batboy

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Re: batty carb project
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2019, 06:29:05 pm »
The chrome tops cleaned up nicely. One looks brand new. The other has a scratch and a little rust.

The main jet size is 108 which is worthless for the ZG1000 (stock main jet is 125).

I scored a few bonus points with the pilot jets which are 38 (basically the next step larger than the 35 which  comes from the factory (49 state US). The slider diaphragms look okay, but one slider is stuck, two of them are not sliding smoothly, and one seems to be working flawlessly. The pilot jets were completely clogged up, but cleaned right up with Gumout carb cleaner spray (done outside of course), followed by a blast of canned air that people use to clean dust from their computers. That's for us shade tree mechanics, because if you have a nice shop, then you'll have a decent air compressor that you can use instead.

Ok, that's about all, folks. I'll finish stripping the carbs down and get things put away.
1988 Kawasaki Concours ZG1000 - Ninja Edition
Bike has the usual accessories and modifications

Offline DC Concours

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Re: batty carb project
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2019, 06:51:01 pm »
You need a bigger dedicated desk now that you are sworn to making the C10 all it could be.

Are the voyager zg1200 bowls and length of overflow tubes a direct fit for the C10? I think they are and this way you now have overflow protection.

Offline batboy

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Re: batty carb project
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2019, 08:08:08 pm »
DC, yes the bowls fit. They're interchangeable. As for the correct height of the overflow tube, it should work okay, but will do more checking when I get the other carbs opened up on Monday. The tubes do stick out of the fuel several mm because the tubes have a bathtub ring you can see (more noticeable on the two still needing cleaned).

The bowls are cleaning up pretty well. One was really nasty, Two down, two more to go.

If I forgot to mention it earlier, don't use carb cleaner on the rubber O-rings or bowl gasket or diaphragms. The solvents make them swell and cause problems.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2019, 08:14:07 pm by batboy »
1988 Kawasaki Concours ZG1000 - Ninja Edition
Bike has the usual accessories and modifications

Offline Lee

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Re: batty carb project
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2019, 10:50:35 pm »
Look'n good!

Offline DC Concours

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Re: batty carb project
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2019, 12:31:29 am »
Wow. The bowls cleaned up very nicely.

Offline batboy

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Re: batty carb project
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2019, 12:54:12 am »
I measured how far the tube stuck above the fuel level and came up with 8mm. I found a thread where a couple guys put the tubes in themselves and used 4mm. SISF responded and said you should have at least 8mm. So, I should be fine as long as I still get 8mm in the other set of carbs.

I cleaned some more on those two in the photo. All four are sparkling clean now. I'd take another pic, but I'm feeling lazy right now.
1988 Kawasaki Concours ZG1000 - Ninja Edition
Bike has the usual accessories and modifications

Offline DC Concours

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Re: batty carb project
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2019, 01:12:09 am »
Yes I belive 8~10 was the recommend height. Any less and the sloshing causes overflow. I also think those were the bowls that are a direct fit without any modification.

Offline Lee

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Re: batty carb project
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2019, 07:58:24 am »
I used 4 mm. Steve of Sunny Florida, whom I would defer, says 8 mm. Now are you confirming  8-10 on your set? That would be at 8mm a 0.15748 or 5/32 inch difference.

I have had no issues known at the 4 measure. But do intend to put a catch bottle to see if I am spilling fuel. Can see no evidence of it on top of crankcase as yet. Thanks for any confirmation on 8-10 measure.

Offline batboy

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Re: batty carb project
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2019, 11:20:32 am »
I'm confirming the height of the tube above the float level is right at 8mm on all 4 of these carbs. DC said 8-10mm is supposed to be the ideal range. SISF (the carb guru) says they should be a minimum of 8mm (posted in another forum thread). So, sounds like I'm in the right ballpark.
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Offline Stasch

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Re: batty carb project
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2019, 11:56:46 am »
FYI there are no air cut valves on the ZG1200 Voyager carbs.
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Offline batboy

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Re: batty carb project
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2019, 12:24:09 pm »
Correct, no air cut valves.

Maybe I wasn't clear in the original post. I will not be using these 30mm Voyager carbs on my Concours. They will not physically fit, not to mention one is damaged from an accident. The reason I bought these Voyager carbs was because I wanted extra parts (primarily the bowls with overflow tubes).
1988 Kawasaki Concours ZG1000 - Ninja Edition
Bike has the usual accessories and modifications

Offline RWulf

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Re: batty carb project
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2019, 01:56:11 pm »
If you use the right set of screw drives you can cut down the tool collection to two.
Get a set of "JIS" screw drivers. They are made for Japanese Philips looking screws.
They work much better on all Philips screws.

Offline batboy

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Re: batty carb project
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2019, 02:58:43 pm »
Interesting post, RWulf. Thanks for sharing. I learn something new everyday. I googled it and read a couple articles about phillips vs. JIS (Japanese Industry Standard). I'll get one and try it. This sort of thing makes me realize how little I really know.

The 12 screwdrivers I had spread out in that first shot was mainly staged. I really only used 4 screwdrivers. You need to be really careful selecting a straight screwdriver for the pilot jet. You want it to be as wide as possible, but not to scrape the sides of the hole. It should fit snug all the way into the bottom of the slot.
1988 Kawasaki Concours ZG1000 - Ninja Edition
Bike has the usual accessories and modifications

Offline connieklr

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Re: batty carb project
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2019, 03:03:18 pm »
If you use the right set of screw drives you can cut down the tool collection to two.
Get a set of "JIS" screw drivers. They are made for Japanese Philips looking screws.
They work much better on all Philips screws.

Yup, and Vessel makes some of the best. I'd give a link, but these freakin' manuf. keep changing their web sites around.

There are sets available on eBay.
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Offline Lee

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Re: batty carb project
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2019, 03:43:20 pm »
I'm confirming the height of the tube above the float level is right at 8mm on all 4 of these carbs. DC said 8-10mm is supposed to be the ideal range. SISF (the carb guru) says they should be a minimum of 8mm (posted in another forum thread). So, sounds like I'm in the right ballpark.

THX! BB

Offline RWulf

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Re: batty carb project
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2019, 09:11:35 pm »
I measured the size of the hole. Went out and brought a screw drive with
the right blade thickness, then took it to local machine shop and had it
ground to the width of the hole. This is in my carb rebuild kit along with
a set of guitar strings.

Offline DC Concours

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Re: batty carb project
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2019, 09:55:50 pm »
4mm?! how is fuel not leaking out?


I used 4 mm. Steve of Sunny Florida, whom I would defer, says 8 mm. Now are you confirming  8-10 on your set? That would be at 8mm a 0.15748 or 5/32 inch difference.

I have had no issues known at the 4 measure. But do intend to put a catch bottle to see if I am spilling fuel. Can see no evidence of it on top of crankcase as yet. Thanks for any confirmation on 8-10 measure.

Offline tonyb

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Re: batty carb project
« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2019, 06:31:14 pm »
Note that the Voyager bowl drain screws all point to the right side of the bike. Might be tough to reach the two on the left side of the bike when installed. The Voyager drain screws do have o-rings which should prevent that annoying dribble when checking float level with the clear tube method.

Offline m in sc

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Re: batty carb project
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2019, 06:47:50 pm »
4mm?! how is fuel not leaking out?


I used 4 mm. Steve of Sunny Florida, whom I would defer, says 8 mm. Now are you confirming  8-10 on your set? That would be at 8mm a 0.15748 or 5/32 inch difference.

I have had no issues known at the 4 measure. But do intend to put a catch bottle to see if I am spilling fuel. Can see no evidence of it on top of crankcase as yet. Thanks for any confirmation on 8-10 measure.
No leaks on mine either. next time i pull the bowls off i might increase it to 8 (since i have like 2+ feet of leftover brass tube) but last time i had them off was 8? mos ago? dont plan on puling off anytime soon either.

Offline DC Concours

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Re: batty carb project
« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2019, 07:28:48 pm »
Did you press fit the tubes?

If it is working for you and the drain routing is done carefully to prevent fire hazards then you don't need to bother messing with it. Functionally lower is better when it comes to hydrolock prevention. I just thought 4mm was too low. Perhaps not.

I was once deciding to do it myself. I went and bought a few 6" tubes from my local hobby store but decided I should just send in my carbs to be fully reconditioned.

No leaks on mine either. next time i pull the bowls off i might increase it to 8 (since i have like 2+ feet of leftover brass tube) but last time i had them off was 8? mos ago? dont plan on puling off anytime soon either.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2019, 07:35:10 pm by DC Concours »

Offline m in sc

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Re: batty carb project
« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2019, 07:53:38 pm »
yes, did it myself. pressed in with green loctite as an added measure .  no issues. theres many ways to skin a cat.
rode it in today actually (turned around took pic out my window) and i store it in a garage at home. there has -never- been fuel on the crankcase from the overflows, ever.
Keep in mind, im an engineer and have a LOT of machining experience. Its not for everybody to do. Ive also been playing with vintage bikes going on (now) 27 years, so carbs to me are second nature.