Author Topic: Bent Front forks  (Read 1156 times)

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Offline Bud

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Re: Bent Front forks
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2019, 03:43:07 pm »
To tighten the steering stem bearings, you need a spanner wrench.  In a pinch, I guess you could use a punch.  The punch is NOT the best way, but it can be done.
https://www.cyclegear.com/search?_utf8=%E2%9C%93&query=spanner+wrench&commit=Search

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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Bent Front forks
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2019, 06:03:00 pm »
yes
please use a spanner... it costs less than the Nut that gets ruined using a punch... see below;

McMaster Carr has them, in the correct size, and ships over night basically...the tool has gone up in price, (used to be like $7) but still worth having.
this is the one in my photo below;
https://www.mcmaster.com/6975a16



also, herre are the other parts in a picture below, of the associated items to complete the stem bearing needs (less the tools)....
« Last Edit: March 28, 2019, 06:09:14 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

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Offline connie_rider

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Re: Bent Front forks
« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2019, 11:04:49 pm »
The special tool I was referring to was a tool to pull the races into the neck and keep them aligned.
Not needed until you are replacing the races..

As others mentioned, the spanner wrench is very nice to have for final tightening.
For a quick bearing test {to see if you have the click},,,, you don't have to go to full tightness.
Just tap the nut snug with a brass punch.

Ride safe, Ted
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Offline RWulf

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Re: Bent Front forks
« Reply #28 on: March 28, 2019, 11:12:02 pm »
Ok, i"ll bite. What is the "quick bearing test (to see if you have the click)?

Offline connie_rider

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Re: Bent Front forks
« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2019, 11:29:01 pm »
See reply #23...

Ride  safe, Ted
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Bent Front forks
« Reply #30 on: March 29, 2019, 06:43:25 pm »
The special tool I was referring to was a tool to pull the races into the neck and keep them aligned.
Not needed until you are replacing the races..




CUP pound out tool, and install tools shown below...
now, mind you, that is the KAW tool... and it is mega $$$

I found cheaper alternatives, online, that can be modified to do this job... and I'll also note that I've NEVER seen anyone able to "punch" out those cups, using only a "punch", as there is no internal "lip" to catch the end of the punch on to hit it.... (TED.... ::)  )

http://forum.cog-online.org/of-common-interest/stem-bearing-cup-removal-tool/
« Last Edit: March 29, 2019, 06:52:25 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Bent Front forks
« Reply #31 on: March 29, 2019, 06:46:56 pm »
Cup install tool.... with threaded rod...

(don't mind the BFH, it is used with the flat ended round bar punch, for hammering on the removal tool...) :rotflmao:

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Offline connie_rider

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Re: Bent Front forks
« Reply #32 on: March 29, 2019, 08:12:12 pm »
I do not own a pulling tool like yours, so I had to improvise.

I remember you told me that it couldn't be done.
I  though you right, but (being me) I also thought, "why not give it a try"..
  {NOTE: I really luv it when someone sez, "it can't be done"..}

NOTE: In your post, you can see tips at the end of your {err} tool for pulling against the edge..
          http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=76612.0;attach=56517;image

            I ground the end of the punch to push against the "same" lip that your DSCF0047 tool uses...
              Using patience; {on that edge} I tapped and moved around the dia. of the race. Slowly/carefully...
                   Both races came out easily...

My homemade installation tool is the same design as yours.

Ride safe, Ted
14 Connie (Traveler II) / 03 Connie (Buddy)
Gone but not forgotten; 87 and 00 Connies..

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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Bent Front forks
« Reply #33 on: March 29, 2019, 09:56:54 pm »
I do not own a pulling tool like yours, so I had to improvise.

I remember you told me that it couldn't be done.
I  though you right, but (being me) I also thought, "why not give it a try"..
  {NOTE: I really luv it when someone sez, "it can't be done"..}

NOTE: In your post, you can see tips at the end of your {err} tool for pulling against the edge..
          http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=76612.0;attach=56517;image

            I ground the end of the punch to push against the "same" lip that your DSCF0047 tool uses...
              Using patience; {on that edge} I tapped and moved around the dia. of the race. Slowly/carefully...
                   Both races came out easily...

My homemade installation tool is the same design as yours.

Ride safe, Ted


most folks, won't make specific tools, specialized for form/fit/function, nor do they realize what they are in for... until they are totally dis-assembled, and basically screwed.

the only "lip" that can be caught, is the radius on the inner bore, of the cup, when it's flat against the seat.. a the inner bore of the tube is the same size a that on the bearing...

the "tool" forces the "knife edge" along that inner mating surface, (another photo, sorry, they were all out of focus...that's why they never got into my article ) at that relief radius on the cup, and begins to actually "grip and separate" the backside of the cup from the frame.. you lucked out, and repeated attempts to do it in the same manner, on a different bike,  would have been very painful at the least, and especially for someone "not quit a tenacious" as you or I are....
Whenever I do a stem bearing replacement, once the cup are out, I chuck up a carbide 'Pinecone shaped" burr bit in my air grinder, and grind 4 "crescent shaped" notches, 90* apart, on the inner bore of the frame/stem area, at that positive "stop" the bearing cup sits against; then, if in the future, I wish to redo that bearing, I "can" slip a punch in there, and easily "seat" it on the edge of the cup, to pound against... something I do from experience doing these (I also grind "notches" into the "tube spacers" that fit between the wheel bearings, for this exact same purpose..whenever I do those also...)

the installation tools I showed, are actual Kaw bearing insertion "plugs", the threaded rod/etc., was my addition, to circumvent the Kaw Rod.

These were Borrowed, for the photo shoot, from my "mentor"... I'll now need to buy my own, via the ones I referenced; and "modify to gring the knife edge" on the puller.
I will mention tho, getting the bottom bearing cage/roller/race off the stem base, is still a p.i.t.a., and I used a couple different methods, as a "generic" bearing splitter just doesn't fit in there, on the bottom tree, between the positive "steering stops" cast into it. You need to remove a lot of "excess metal" from a generic splitter tool, or make your own..
Removing the roller "cage", and rollers, holding the tree in a vise, and heating that inner race with a propane torch, rapidly using some thin chisels to wedge it upwards, is the safest method. Then, reheat, and repeat, to get it moving upwards on the stem...
Funny, that is the method (minus the heating part) shown in the FSM for the C14 bearing replacement... they had a special tool they old for the old C10, that had angular offset clamping bolts on a High $$$$$ splitter, but that was never gonna be purchased... by me.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2019, 10:55:56 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

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Offline Bud

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Re: Bent Front forks
« Reply #34 on: March 29, 2019, 10:34:45 pm »
To be honest, I don't remember how we got the cup out of my son's 87 when we did the big fork upgrade.  What I can tell you is that I was wishing for one of those tools.  Everything is easier with the proper tools.  No question about it.  Will we spend the money and maybe wait a bit for those tools to come in?  Those that do get it done quicker with less frustration.  Ted seems to have any immense amount of patience.  I suspect that had a lot to do with his outcome.  Then there is those of us (I have too many guilty moments) that can't or won't spend the money, that end up damaging things and getting frustrated and spending as much money or more trying to do it the quick, cheap way.  Dave Ramsey was telling a story the other day about trying to learn something from a billionaire he knows.  This guy tells Dave that there is a book he should read.  Turns out it's the tortoise and the hare.  The billionaire tells Dave that every time he's read the book, the tortoise wins.  Sometimes it seems, the easiest things to understand are the hardest things to accept and do.
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Bent Front forks
« Reply #35 on: March 29, 2019, 11:25:53 pm »
Honestly Bud, I'm realllllly cheap... BUT I've been an Mechanical Engineer for 45+ years, and my main job was solving problems, mechanical and assembly problems... if I made something simple, so anyone could do it (like all the people that assembled what I designed), and had fabricated.. I found it as a "successful" venture.

Now Ted, he's just cheap, and has lot's of time smashing his fingers, and cursing..
so, that's why he does it...( :great: :great: you know me all too well Ted... :great: :great: :beerchug: )... because in the end, satisfaction reigned thru it all...
He and I get a lot of enjoyment for success, that we have, and never ever share.

I see people constantly, jumping into water soo deep, without a clue, and hoping to find a way out of what they did in a panic mode, to fix something they never researched, had a "gameplan", or even asked about, and after doing severe hammer damage, that they "induced", and the frustration they have... nothing you can say will help... :'(

I used to tell my wife (when going out to work on something).. "no big deal honey, I'll be in in an hour... It' just a 10 minit job..."     i don't ever say that anymore. :-X


Like, the "other solution" for getting those cups out of the frame stem area...
see, not everyone has the same "tools"... so if I say..:
"get a big washer that fits inside the cup, and run a bead using your tabletop MIG welder, to zap it inside the cup, then while it's still hot, use a punch from the other side to pound it out..." really doesn't help the dude in a condo, with no garage, no carport, and no welder...

 ;)

a for the old Tortoise and Hare....... we are in a new time...(and being a Tortois myself) and I would bet $ that neither would make it across a 6 lane highway...... well, maybe the Hare would get further... but that ain't "winning".. ( a Tortoise would stand at the edge of the highway... waiting for the Hare to become road splat, then turn and go home, snickering, and just getting older...) :great: :great: :great: :rotflmao:
« Last Edit: March 29, 2019, 11:57:47 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

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and if you are gonna call me names... it's MR. Analdweeb if you please...

Online Stasch

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Re: Bent Front forks
« Reply #36 on: March 29, 2019, 11:47:29 pm »
This may be a solution for a guy with regular tools . . . . like me.

I got the races out (the bottom one was the hardest) without having to find a large washer, welding or dremelling the race apart.

It did require a small standard puller, the kind you use to pull a belt drive wheel off a lawnmower engine shaft.

I checked the way back machine with a search for an old post I wrote quite a while ago. 

Methods for both the upper and lower race removal is on the first page. 

It wouldn't have been so long but some useless Michigan friends kept chiming in with 'help'.   :)

Click this:  Linky to Way Back Post
Stan Visser - COG#: 6830  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > C10 STUFF FOR SALE - Parts List

He IS a racer, hence the forward lean!!  by: Mettler1

Offline connie_rider

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Re: Bent Front forks
« Reply #37 on: March 30, 2019, 02:55:14 pm »
Here is a simple solution from a simplemind.
{
I've learned another way to get them out that is EZ and requires no special tools. Justa cheep dremmel tool from HF}
      {Think I found it on the Forum??}
          After I learned/used it, I did a; "now, why didn't I think of that"..  :-[

Use a Dremel tool, with a 1" abrasive cutoff.
  Cut the race semi vertically.. { ie; top to bottom (at any angle needed to reach the race)}
  Once you cut thru, the race will come out easily. {because cutting it releases the interference fit}

I know some are thinking, "but you'll also cut a groove in the metal around it"...
You are correct, you will also cut some of the supporting material.
  "But",as long as you do not cut "thru" the outside/supporting material, that groove is unimportant.
  Just grind off the burrs and install a new race. Works perfectly!
                                      ;)

NOTE: Best to do the cut on the sides of the race as the groove is not in the front/rear area, that sees more stress while riding.

Ride safe, Ted

Let the flames begin..............
« Last Edit: March 31, 2019, 05:46:10 pm by connie_rider »
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Offline RWulf

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Re: Bent Front forks
« Reply #38 on: March 31, 2019, 05:32:35 pm »
Who you calling a useless Michigan friend ?

I will add this, "useless" tip. Just heat the frame side of the race
with your propain torch and lightly tap out the race. If you
blister the paint an spray paint will touch it up.