Author Topic: Broke a fuel ‘nipple’  (Read 588 times)

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Offline tbharker

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Broke a fuel ‘nipple’
« on: June 13, 2019, 02:03:51 am »
Now that I got your attention...

I sprung a fuel leak in a hose today, connecting the tank to this four way black plastic thingy. I think that’s the technical name... I took a few pictures so you can see where it is relative to the bike: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/bxy4brrvktc7zma/AADuQdHE6A3V5H2leMT7Hvc9a?dl=0

A. What is this thing? I can’t find my Clymer manual, but I suspect it’s buried under a pile of boxes (we’re doing some renovation).
B. Do I need it? If it’s for California smog, for example, can I just eliminate/bypass this part of the fuel system?
C. The real problem is that I busted off one of the nipples (the one on the side) when I was trying to get the broken hose off. It’s just plastic, and after 33 years, it was a bit brittle.

Bike seems to run pretty normal, even with that hose disconnected, but I don’t want a fuel leak. If I need it, can I get a new one? Otherwise I’ll have to figure out how to glue it back together. I suspect fuel will break down superglue, so I’d have to fine another option, or superglue plus something else over the top (JB Weld? Silicone?)

Help?
1986 Concours C10 / ZG1000 since 2011

Offline DC Concours

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Re: Broke a fuel ‘nipple’
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2019, 02:08:20 am »
I think you can remove all that hippie stuff from your bike as others have done before you. But CA might cause problems if you need state inspection.

Offline tbharker

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Re: Broke a fuel ‘nipple’
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2019, 02:16:09 am »
I think you can remove all that hippie stuff from your bike as others have done before you. But CA might cause problems if you need state inspection.

Thanks! I live in Utah, so don’t care about CA laws. Can someone confirm that’s what this is, and/or what I can scrap? I’ve got an ‘86 Concours, btw
1986 Concours C10 / ZG1000 since 2011

Offline batboy

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Re: Broke a fuel ‘nipple’
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2019, 02:23:30 am »
If you have a Calif. C10, you'll see two vent barbs and hoses at the back of the gas tank. Take the seat off and look, if it has one vent, that is what the normal 49 states bike have (there's another vent under the tank, but I'm talking what's visible when you only take the tank off). It'll also have a charcoal canister and other plumbing if it's a CA bike, but what I said above, looking to see if you have the extra tank vent, is the quickest way to tell.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2019, 10:32:18 am by batboy »
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Offline tbharker

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Re: Broke a fuel ‘nipple’
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2019, 02:40:51 am »
If you have a Calif. C10, you'll see two vent barbs and hoses at the back of the gas tank. Take the seat off and look, one vent is what the normal 49 states bike. It'll also have a charcoal canister and other plumbing, but what I said is the quickest way to tell.

I definitely have three ports off the back of the tank (two on the right, and one on the left). Two go down to the black plastic thing I broke. From the black plastic thing, another hose connects to some square box, and another hose goes up over to the carbs.

Assuming I can bypass all this stuff, are there instructions somewhere? I scanned the forum without success.
1986 Concours C10 / ZG1000 since 2011

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Broke a fuel ‘nipple’
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2019, 03:28:32 am »
pull that rubbish all of, run a hose from the right nipple on the tank, to the left nipple... (white and red dot on tank), and the middle one is the overflow/drain for water/fuel under the filler cap... run that one down, and to the rear, near the battery vent, and hose from the fuel level sensor leak hose.

plug the yellow hose nipple on the carb body, and also the breather green dot to the airbox and toss everything you pull off into a box, and store it for 20 years... then throw it away. :great:


and as I always say, buy a Factory Service manual... save yourself and and your time, and it's all in there... i promise... :great: :great:

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Offline tbharker

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Re: Broke a fuel ‘nipple’
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2019, 05:09:10 am »
pull that rubbish all of, run a hose from the right nipple on the tank, to the left nipple... (white and red dot on tank), and the middle one is the overflow/drain for water/fuel under the filler cap... run that one down, and to the rear, near the battery vent, and hose from the fuel level sensor leak hose.

plug the yellow hose nipple on the carb body, and also the breather green dot to the airbox and toss everything you pull off into a box, and store it for 20 years... then throw it away. :great:


and as I always say, buy a Factory Service manual... save yourself and and your time, and it's all in there... i promise... :great: :great:

Awesome! Thanks! Excited to see if I can find all those ‘dots’ tomorrow (I think some are missing).  Thanks again!
1986 Concours C10 / ZG1000 since 2011

Offline tbharker

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Re: Broke a fuel ‘nipple’
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2019, 12:20:27 am »
So I pulled the hoses and capped them off, and now when I run my bike it’s bogged down and won’t idle unless I have it fully choked. Do I need to adjust the carb now, or is there a different issue?

Here’s what I did:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xvhaygz65xuyw8i/vacuum%20Hoses.JPG?dl=0
1986 Concours C10 / ZG1000 since 2011

Offline batboy

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Re: Broke a fuel ‘nipple’
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2019, 12:39:47 am »
I'm not following everything that MOB told you. Like, he says to connect the right tank vent to the left tank vent. To my way of thinking, you connect a hose to two tank vents and then nothing gets vented. Right? I'd cap off the left CA fitting and leave the right one with an open vent hose to atmosphere like the regular 49 state versions.

What are you doing with the vacuum ports on each carb? Usually #2 carb vacuum hose goes to the petcock. #3 carb vacuum port is capped off. #1 and #4 are Teed together with the third hose of the T going to the valve cover where the bumps are (reed valves).

EDIT: I think I see what he's doing now. There's a third vent that goes to the filler area. This also acts as a drain if it's overfilled. I guess MOB is saying that's all you need for a vent.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2019, 01:29:19 am by batboy »
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Bike has the usual accessories and modifications

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Broke a fuel ‘nipple’
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2019, 01:32:34 am »
the picture you showed, does not depict what I said, connect right nipple, to left nipple.. the middle nipple is an overflow...

that should help ya.. lemme know..

30 YEARS OF KAW.....Rich R. (the other one..)  COG 5977  JUSTAMEMBAHNOW
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Offline tbharker

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Re: Broke a fuel ‘nipple’
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2019, 04:39:48 am »
the picture you showed, does not depict what I said, connect right nipple, to left nipple.. the middle nipple is an overflow...

that should help ya.. lemme know..

I know, the chart is kind of wonky (the order doesn’t match the actual layout—you have to look at the colors and what they connect with)., but I did follow your instructions from the start, and connected the left and right, and the center is a drain/vent.  The chart is actually right on the bike, behind the battery.

In other news, my petcock started leaking, so now I get to deal with that, too. The joys of a 33 year old bike...
1986 Concours C10 / ZG1000 since 2011

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Broke a fuel ‘nipple’
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2019, 05:28:00 am »
well, you need to describe what you actually did, compared to the link you provided, which clearly shows you connected the right nipple, to the middle nipple.. at this point, I cannot continue. I have no idea, via these posts, what you have done, or how you have switched things around.
I wished to assist. But now I will just bow out, and let it stand.

we can start again, and I will attempt to direct you, from afar, over the internet, without the machine in front of ma... how to help you.

go back, ditch the erroneous picture from the post, or at least let people know it was wrong and re-do/post one to show what you "really" did, and post it.

  :truce: :truce: :truce:  I do not get payment for this... I do it to make owners happy, and able to ride the bike.   :great: :motonoises: :motonoises:
goodnight
« Last Edit: June 15, 2019, 09:52:29 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

30 YEARS OF KAW.....Rich R. (the other one..)  COG 5977  JUSTAMEMBAHNOW
and if you are gonna call me names... it's MR. Analdweeb if you please...

Offline Bud

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Re: Broke a fuel ‘nipple’
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2019, 01:16:24 pm »
the picture you showed, does not depict what I said, connect right nipple, to left nipple.. the middle nipple is an overflow...

that should help ya.. lemme know..

I know, the chart is kind of wonky (the order doesn’t match the actual layout—you have to look at the colors and what they connect with)., but I did follow your instructions from the start, and connected the left and right, and the center is a drain/vent. The chart is actually right on the bike, behind the battery.

In other news, my petcock started leaking, so now I get to deal with that, too. The joys of a 33 year old bike...
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Offline batboy

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Re: Broke a fuel ‘nipple’
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2019, 01:25:51 pm »
I looked at the drain/vent hole in the filler area, it looks like once you gas tank filler cap, that filler vent is sealed off from the rest of the tank. Am I missing something or is the cap also vented?
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Bike has the usual accessories and modifications

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Broke a fuel ‘nipple’
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2019, 08:23:30 pm »
I looked at the drain/vent hole in the filler area, it looks like once you gas tank filler cap, that filler vent is sealed off from the rest of the tank. Am I missing something or is the cap also vented?

The actual "cap" contains a vent "to atmosphere", to alleviate pressurized conditions when the tank heats, it is a kid of "flapper" thing, internal in the cap, designed to relieve pressure only, then reseal to prevent sucking anything in...
that "drain hole", in the recess around the outside of the cap, it to allow rainwater collected there, or in the case of a "fuel overflow accident while filling" to also drain, out to the ground. The little "nipple thing at the cap, is either sealed by a rubber, or not, depending on if it's a Cali" tank, those have a seal, 49 state bikes don't, in any event, that part is vented thru the Cali EPA system on those bikes (the canister), and is benign on 49 state bikes, and will act as a secondary overflow.

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and if you are gonna call me names... it's MR. Analdweeb if you please...

Offline JPD

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Re: Broke a fuel ‘nipple’
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2019, 01:53:49 pm »
The little nipple on a 49 state cap is to allow air into the tank as you burn fuel. My bike had been repainted before I got it and a bubble of paint came up just below that nipple and plugged the end of it. The bike shut off during an extended high speed run 3 miles to the next exit, no overhead lighting with cars and trucks whizzing by at 70 plus MPH. I opened the cap to check if I had fuel and then was able to restart. The next ride when I stopped at home I heard the tank hissing and when I opened the cap a rush of air. I had the cap apart and it has two check valves one to vent out as MOB stated and the other in from that nipple. The nipple only lets air into the tank. It took me a couple of more rides to find that the lifted paint was blocking the vent inlet.

If you convert a CA bike do you need a different cap?

Offline tbharker

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Re: Broke a fuel ‘nipple’
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2019, 12:47:52 am »
well, you need to describe what you actually did, compared to the link you provided, which clearly shows you connected the right nipple, to the middle nipple.. at this point, I cannot continue. I have no idea, via these posts, what you have done, or how you have switched things around.
I wished to assist. But now I will just bow out, and let it stand.

we can start again, and I will attempt to direct you, from afar, over the internet, without the machine in front of ma... how to help you.

go back, ditch the erroneous picture from the post, or at least let people know it was wrong and re-do/post one to show what you "really" did, and post it.

  :truce: :truce: :truce:  I do not get payment for this... I do it to make owners happy, and able to ride the bike.   :great: :motonoises: :motonoises:
goodnight

Man of Blues, I didn’t mean to offend—I really do appreciate your trying to help!

The picture was drawn poorly (it’s actually posted under the seat), and doesn’t show the nipples in the right order. Here’s how the hoses are connected:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/brset6z8mikohlr/tank_hoses.JPG?dl=0

On the carb, 1 (left) &4 (right) are connected and I capped off the splice that used to run to plastic pump  device I broke. Similarly, the connection between 1&2 and 3&4 no longer t’s back to that doodad (capped off)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ss9s1i8tlln1bk7/1-to4.JPG?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7z778xclmv95eh7/1.2-3.4.JPG?dl=0

Any ideas what might be making it run poorly after circumventing the Cali emissions system? The leak at the petcock seems to be an issue with the vacuum, so do I need to add remove another vacuum line somewhere (to rebalance the system)? At full choke, she idles okay, but if I let it off it dies.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2019, 01:27:39 am by tbharker »
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Offline tbharker

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Re: Broke a fuel ‘nipple’
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2019, 10:45:06 pm »
Gentlemen, I'm looking for some help to get my '86 C10 back on the streets.

I found your comments in this thread (http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-c10-zg1000-general-chat-and-tech/block-off-plate-and-vacuum-lines) really helpful, and wondered if you might be able to lend me some guidance.

This all started when I busted a nipple off the vapor pump while trying to replace a leaky hose. It was suggested the easiest fix would be to bypass the Cali-emissions system completely. I tried to follow the instructions, and capped and rerouted, but now something is off. I have to open the choke all the way to get it running (and keep it running), and fuel comes out the little hole in the petcock near vacuum port when running.

My suspicion is that one of the hoses I capped off (resulting in two T'd lines now being connected):

HELP?
1986 Concours C10 / ZG1000 since 2011

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Broke a fuel ‘nipple’
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2019, 11:48:38 pm »
take all the "tee's" out.
Run one line from carb #2 vac port, to the fuel petcock diaphragm on the petcock.
Disconnect all the vac lines to the Cali emmisions stuff.
Connect one vac line from #1 to #4, with a tee, and connect the output of the tee  to the top reed valve vacuum "switch" assembly, the canister up top of the valve cover.

Cap off the remaining #3 nipple on the carb bank.
Leave the hoses on the fuel tank in place as they are now.

now, the leak at the petcock, is a bad diaphragm, which needs to be replaced, not caused by the other stuff, just popped up, possibly as a result of strange hose connections, but I doubt that, it's just gone bad..

either this
https://www.murphskits.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_94&products_id=121&osCsid=xPXbBQAeVLKJQso5B3Dsz0

or this

https://www.murphskits.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_94&products_id=140&osCsid=xPXbBQAeVLKJQso5B3Dsz0


will get you back to spec
« Last Edit: June 26, 2019, 12:02:36 am by MAN OF BLUES »

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Offline tbharker

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Re: Broke a fuel ‘nipple’
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2019, 08:40:01 pm »
take all the "tee's" out.
Run one line from carb #2 vac port, to the fuel petcock diaphragm on the petcock.
Disconnect all the vac lines to the Cali emmisions stuff.
Connect one vac line from #1 to #4, with a tee, and connect the output of the tee  to the top reed valve vacuum "switch" assembly, the canister up top of the valve cover.

Cap off the remaining #3 nipple on the carb bank.
Leave the hoses on the fuel tank in place as they are now.

now, the leak at the petcock, is a bad diaphragm, which needs to be replaced, not caused by the other stuff, just popped up, possibly as a result of strange hose connections, but I doubt that, it's just gone bad..

either this
https://www.murphskits.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_94&products_id=121&osCsid=xPXbBQAeVLKJQso5B3Dsz0

or this

https://www.murphskits.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_94&products_id=140&osCsid=xPXbBQAeVLKJQso5B3Dsz0


will get you back to spec

Thanks MOB. Opening the tee between 1&2 and 3&4 and letting it vent (per a PM with Jim) fixed the issues with it running poorly. At this point, I think I've successfully bypassed the whole Cali-emissions system, so should be able to pull it all out now. I appreciate all the help!

Since I just replaced the whole petcock a couple years ago (and opened it up and can't see anything wrong with it--including the diaphragm), I went ahead and ordered the rebuild kit. In the overview of the petcock conversion (https://www.murphskits.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_94&products_id=483&osCsid=xPXbBQAeVLKJQso5B3Dsz0), it says, "To ensure a good seal between the diaphragm and the aluminum pieces, consider adding a small container of Permatex Aviation form-a-gasket to your order." Would it be a good idea to get a container of this stuff for when I rebuild the petcock and replace the diaphragm? I did order one. Do I apply it just to the aluminum of the petcock, or also to both sides of the diaphragm? I've never used this stuff, but as I said, I don't see any issues with the current diaphragm, so wonder if it isn't just a poor seal that something like this might help to prevent.
1986 Concours C10 / ZG1000 since 2011

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Broke a fuel ‘nipple’
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2019, 06:56:28 pm »
Unless you ordered and are installing the "manual petcock conversion", there is NO Permatex involved... to NOT apply it to anything when doing an OEM diaphragm installation/replacement...

You are confused a bit, by the instructions on the page from MURPH's....
That "kit" changes the function of the petcock, making it "NON-Vacuum" actuated, and in fact, has a "bolt" that threads into the "new" rear 'replacement cover', to apply pressure to seal the internal Poppet, which Is no longer "a functioning part" of the modified assembly.
THAT is why a sealant was suggested, as the diaphragm will "never be called upon again" to function.

don't use sealant of any type, on a diaphragm, when doing a simple restore/replacement... the Rubber "flaps" of the diaphragm, on either side of that plastic "center piece", seal against "raised" perimeter "ridges" on both the petcock, and the vacuum "cover".

30 YEARS OF KAW.....Rich R. (the other one..)  COG 5977  JUSTAMEMBAHNOW
and if you are gonna call me names... it's MR. Analdweeb if you please...