Author Topic: c10 cornering questions and observations  (Read 972 times)

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Offline DangerousDan

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c10 cornering questions and observations
« on: December 03, 2018, 08:33:48 am »
My new to me Connie is named Crysis, she's very fast, I time myself going from 0 to 60 in 3.5 ish to 4 seconds.  When I gun her, I don't shift till 10 grand,, or just under and I power shift.  I've managed a couple short wheelies just to make sure she can, but she did not like it, and I'm not a good wheely rider.  But where it comes to cornering, I'm a very careful person.  Having never wiped out while riding a street bike (too many to count on dirt bikes and enduros), I have been right next to fools who did , on the same corner I was in.  The difference seemed to be they push it too far, lean too much, even to the point of putting their knee out (as to look cool) when it was not necessary at that angle.  These old bikes surprised me with their aggressive cornering.  Crysis likes to just fall into corners, but she is so tall, I don't feel safe going past a 45% angle.  Having ridden mostly Honda's, the c10 seems much more aggressive cornering.  In the rain,, I will not lean her at all,, or barely 15 or 20 degrees.    On such a heavy bike, I tend to always have my center of gravity independent of the bike.  Just incase my rear end gives a bit, I want to be able to power out of it and correct   So I catch myself actually throwing the bike down and my own body not committing entirely in switchbacks especially.  Crysis is so heavy, if I was to hit oil,, or gravel, I'd be doomed if I were leaning more than the bike,, or pressed very hard by the whiplash if perfectly committed.  So I'm using a combination throw down and dirt bike riding technique when I get to fun corners too fast.  Anyone have any advice as to how Connies actually handle a corner slide? 
So this is a life?  Lets have some fun!
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Offline SteveJ.

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Re: c10 cornering questions and observations
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2018, 11:39:21 am »
I would think a lot of that would be determined by the condition and build of the tires. In over 200k miles on my c-10 I never skidded on dry, clean pavement. I would from time to time scrape foot pegs but the bike had the Genmar peg lowerers on it. The last 8-10 rear tires were Shinko 777's and were slightly taller.

I did have a Michelin Commander II on the rear of the bike for a short time, to replace an Avon that was self destructing on a trip. I replaced it way early because of it's propensity to slide on wet corners. It unhooked way too easily.
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Offline bajasam

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Re: c10 cornering questions and observations
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2018, 03:31:04 pm »
power slide a C-10, you are dangerous, Dan

Offline Jorge

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Re: c10 cornering questions and observations
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2018, 02:12:37 am »
Congrats on the "new" ride!  C10 is a great bike.
Only thing about leaning away from the corner, is that you will have to lean the bike further, and are you'll be more likely to run out of ground clearance.
Physics dictate that the combined center of gravity of bike+rider will be at a certain angle at a certain speed at a certain corner. Tighter turning radius, you have to slow down or increase the lean angle. Faster speed at same radius, same thing. This is not dependent on riding technique, it is just physics for a single track vehicle.
If your center of gravity is higher than the bike's, you have to lean the bike further. If you lean into the turn, especially if you slide your butt slightly inwards (I don't like to do this), then you have to lean the bike less, and you will retain more clearance.
I did wipe out a couple of years ago in Northern Georgia, got cocky in the twisties, and ... ran out of ground clearance. I was leaning slightly into the turn, but had I leaned more, or tucked my head lower into the turn, I may have made it through. I had been scraping pegs, but a back-to-back pair of right handers got me.
If you have good sport-touring tires, their traction in clean pavement will exceed your lean angle ability. Keep an eye out for stuff on the road, and you'll be fine.
Enjoy the ride!

Offline DangerousDan

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Re: c10 cornering questions and observations
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2018, 03:06:00 am »
I like the sound of that,, cept you never mentioned power sliding, instead straight to wipe out.  My cb 750 broke rear then front usually,, but it did so in such a way that allowed me to power through the corner.  Lesser riders panic and let off the throttle, causing a deadly whip lash and straight trajectory right off the road.  I have not pushed Crysis this far yet,, because I'm usually going over 80 mph, or over 100 when I really need to lean her over in a committed fashion.  I find myself so high off the ground than I'm used to , and leaning so much :-X.
    Anyone reading actually break traction cornering under throttle with connie? And how does she pull out of it when you keep composure, and throttle her through,   and expect her to hold after breaking lose?  In my experience,, sometimes the perfectly wrong thing to do is let off the throttle when a corner breaks your grip.
So this is a life?  Lets have some fun!
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Offline Nosmo

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Re: c10 cornering questions and observations
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2018, 07:32:57 am »
No power sliding here, but be more careful when leaning to the left.  You can (as I did) scrape the pedal on the center stand before the footpegs ground out.  I hit it when turning left across a very steeply angled road at an intersection, and bottomed out the center stand when crossing the crown, (basically high-centered it) which lifted the rear wheel off the ground, and she took a big hop to the outside.   Luck, not skill, got me through.
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Offline Jorge

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Re: c10 cornering questions and observations
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2018, 11:25:32 pm »
LOL--- no, no power slide. While it's hard to say exactly what went wrong, I think what happened is that I leaned her over, on the 1st half, coming out, I realized there was a 2nd half (good advice to not ride hard on unfamiliar roads!), leaned her over more, with foot peg was dragging quite a bit, and I believe the tip over bar contacted the pavement, unloaded front tire, and the rest is history  :'(

BTW... Steve J., from an earlier post, can tell you your C10 is just barely broken in with 74K miles. :great:

Offline connie_rider

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Re: c10 cornering questions and observations
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2018, 01:12:47 am »
DD, a C-10 will do a lot more than most of us can do.
  It's not the bike. It's the riders experience that counts.
    This is what a C-10 will do in the corners.
This is Ed {Swampcat} on Shoudaben {1109cc of highly modified Connie} at one of the Jennings Track Day's.
   {Trust me, this Connie is a tad bit a "lot" faster than most C-10's}.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciJQISA2Cw8

Ride safe, Ted

PS: {Ed ( and the rest of us) were learning how to corner}…
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« Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 02:05:28 pm by connie_rider »
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Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: c10 cornering questions and observations
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2018, 01:27:26 am »
Those of you who have never done a track day should think about doing it.  Power out of a slide works on a dirt bike but wont on a street bike that does not have traction control.  Breaking the rear loose and then spinning it up is not good. Been there...done that.  Instant high side.
Track school will realy help.You are right though...choppng the throttle is also bad..
« Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 01:41:54 am by Daytona_Mike »
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Offline The Doctor

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Re: c10 cornering questions and observations
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2018, 06:34:23 am »

  It's not the bike. It's the riders experience that counts.



+1
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Offline Boomer

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Re: c10 cornering questions and observations
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2018, 09:18:19 pm »
The C10 corners very well considering her bulk. I can drag hard parts at will (but prefer not to) and can stay with most sportbike riders in the twisties. You do need decent tyres (my preference is the PR3 front 110/80-ZR18 and Avon 3D-XM rear) and decently setup suspension. It won't out corner my C14 but is often more fun to ride as it's more challenging. The C14 can be a bit too frantic as it dramatically shortens the straights. :D
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Offline DangerousDan

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Re: c10 cornering questions and observations
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2018, 12:47:50 am »
Thanx for all the replies gents.  I have been riding on wet roads a lot lately.  Low speed rear end power slide outs have occurred a bit, and I did find Crysis very easy to control , with little deviation from my trajectory.  I am surprised how well she responds to my light touch on the throttle in dangerous situations.  At least the deer have been laying low lately, wet roads and deer sucks.  I am running Dunlap front and rear,, I think I will go with a really soft front and a bit harder rear, like Dunlap when I get new shoes on her.  The rear end slide at least gives you a chance to correct, front end slides don't end well.  My habit is to break hard into a corner and give moderate throttle during and lots coming out of it in order to ensure that if a wheel does break lose, it begins with the rear, so I have a warning.  Not sure where I learned that, but I have made corners that way what people behind or beside me did not make.  I am by no means a mad cornered, I just think physics is critical to understand in tire stress levels when your life is leaning over a 45% angle at 100 miles per hour .  But on Crysis I have not even scraped pegs yet, I'm very careful about that. Instead I blitz the straights and break very hard to make up lost ground.
So this is a life?  Lets have some fun!
1992 c10 74k miles,  black w/ red stripe
carbon fiber slip ons, rifle wind screen
custom Corbin seat (flip down passenger back rest)
cruise control, maybe more, still researching

Offline DangerousDan

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Re: c10 cornering questions and observations
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2018, 05:46:16 am »
No power sliding here, but be more careful when leaning to the left.  You can (as I did) scrape the pedal on the center stand before the footpegs ground out.  I hit it when turning left across a very steeply angled road at an intersection, and bottomed out the center stand when crossing the crown, (basically high-centered it) which lifted the rear wheel off the ground, and she took a big hop to the outside.   Luck, not skill, got me through.

Thats happened to me, scary stuff.  Thanx for the memory  :-X
So this is a life?  Lets have some fun!
1992 c10 74k miles,  black w/ red stripe
carbon fiber slip ons, rifle wind screen
custom Corbin seat (flip down passenger back rest)
cruise control, maybe more, still researching

Offline WillyP

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Re: c10 cornering questions and observations
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2018, 09:23:55 pm »
I like to hang off, but I prefer to keep the knee tucked in as I don't use knee sliders. I am terrified of what might happen if my unprotected knee should even briefly contact pavement.

I have found that in fast corners the rear will start to drift well before the front but that may depend greatly on your setup, tires, and many other factors.

I did have a low-side one time when I took the bike out of storage and the tires were too cold, and they are old and hardened. (easy boys) I need to get new tires even though the threads are not showing yet. I throttled up too soon after pulling out of the gas station and the rear tire just shot out from under me, too fast for me to correct.
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Offline DangerousDan

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Re: c10 cornering questions and observations
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2018, 10:21:06 pm »
That nearly happened to me during my "wheely a shafty" experaments.  Coming over a hillock around a mild curve I down shifted two gears, gunned it and popped the clutch only to have my rear break loose on the back side of the hill.  Scared the life outa me, chilled out after that,, for a bit anyhow.  Would have been a good 40 mph whipe out.
So this is a life?  Lets have some fun!
1992 c10 74k miles,  black w/ red stripe
carbon fiber slip ons, rifle wind screen
custom Corbin seat (flip down passenger back rest)
cruise control, maybe more, still researching

Offline Rod

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Re: c10 cornering questions and observations
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2019, 07:49:13 pm »
 DangerousDan i been there i spent 3 days in Hospital 3 broken ribs that was about 40 mph lots of pain not good.

Offline Jim Snyder

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Re: c10 cornering questions and observations
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2019, 08:26:03 pm »
The same technique applies to motorcycle riding and competitive shooting (I have done both for many years) Smooth is fast. Over running a corner or a target does not reduce your time or make you faster. Your idea of putting a hard tire on the back to intentionally invite sliding seems dangerous. Most riders who go with a hard tire are commuters who want better mileage. As Mike mentioned applying throttle to a spinning/sliding tire is inviting disaster.
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Offline Bud

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Re: c10 cornering questions and observations
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2019, 12:00:41 pm »
I think Dangerous Dan has left the building.  He seems to like living on the edge when it comes to riding his C10 and the cautious people among us were kinda freaked out by his riding style.  I never really considered myself cautious, but compared to Dan's riding style, I ride like the old man that I am.  I kinda miss ole Dan.  You just never knew what he would say next.  So for the folks that like their forum posts spicy, you could say that Dan's posts were like a bit of hot sauce! :-\
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Offline DangerousDan

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Re: c10 cornering questions and observations
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2019, 03:07:08 am »
The same technique applies to motorcycle riding and competitive shooting (I have done both for many years) Smooth is fast. Over running a corner or a target does not reduce your time or make you faster. Your idea of putting a hard tire on the back to intentionally invite sliding seems dangerous. Most riders who go with a hard tire are commuters who want better mileage. As Mike mentioned applying throttle to a spinning/sliding tire is inviting disaster.

NO, no,, actually, I can tell by some posts,, lots of vids,, and some of you peoples comments, I am very careful in corners compared to many of you (chicken*).  I don't like scraping pegs, the only times I have ever done it is because I misjudged the corner.  Sure,, I love speed  coming out of corners, and have broke traction a bit sideways coming out, but I tend to massively break prior to corner to prevent any parts from touching the ground besides the tires.  I suspect this is why I have never wiped out a street bike on a road.  I hop on my dirt machines to push the limits of physics.  I will constantly test any new road with a throttle burst and quick clutch popping under slight lean ,  when I have any doubts of traction (which is always).  Since I started this post, I have gotten much more comfortable with Crisis, and learned that she handles power slides out of a corner very well.  Very stable.   She also stopped in time to avoid a suicidal deer once to my amazement.   I have always purchased used and older machines because I don't like working my life away.  Honestly, the C10 by far out performs anything I have ever owned regarding street legal bikes.  But then,, my previous favorite was a 1975is Huskavarna 450 WR 2 stroke I geared up to do 115 mph.  The closest to the C10 I've owned is Honda 750 K, which was much wobblier breaking traction under throttle coming out of corners(lacking sufficient power).   In fact , this is my first Kawasaki EVER.  Out of about 20 bikes I can recall, 3 were enduro, 4 were street, the rest dirt bikes I'd often put enduro tires on.  So yeah,, I don't risk leaning in corners like some of you do,,but coming out the back side, I will be pealing rubber and a bit (microscopically)  sideways trying to catch up.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2019, 03:18:35 am by DangerousDan, Reason: tiny, mico detail »
So this is a life?  Lets have some fun!
1992 c10 74k miles,  black w/ red stripe
carbon fiber slip ons, rifle wind screen
custom Corbin seat (flip down passenger back rest)
cruise control, maybe more, still researching