Author Topic: Accessory Power outlets on the C10, GTR1000.  (Read 5471 times)

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Offline MadMax

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Accessory Power outlets on the C10, GTR1000.
« on: January 09, 2016, 02:30:59 am »
Hi, this topic is for those who don’t have switched acc. outlets.
 I’m sure some of you use the accessory outlet in the front of your bike for things like heated grips. The only problem is that the wires are always live. Non switched. And this can lead to flat batteries, due to either leaving things on by accident or someone playing around with your bike when you are not there.
Simple you say, use a relay. That would mean more wires & fuses. Also finding a place to put the relay.
That’s one method but my method is far simpler.
All you need to do is move one wire on one of the connectors that go to the junction box & increase one fuse rating by say 5 amps.
 That will make them switched with the ignition. The junction box has two connectors, It’s the 8pin one  with thicker wires you need to look at. You will see a White/Blue wire, move it to the end of the row where there is no cable going in.
Pin 2A to Pin 8.
You are actually now taking power from the head light fuse, but before the relay. So increase the fuse by 5 amps or more. Your outlets are now switched. Simple.  If you look at the junction box wiring you can see how simple it is.
I just found this link for the junction box on another topic here.
http://web.ncf.ca/ag136/junct2bnewc.gif
I hope this is useful to some of you.

Offline mattchewn

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Re: Accessory Power outlets on the C10, GTR1000.
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2016, 04:03:12 am »
max,
I don't claim to be an expert on the intricacies of the C10 wiring but I am curious why you would want to additionally load one of the higher amperage circuits on the bike with heated grips.  Seems like a good way to overload the wiring and cause a bigger issue. Fuses are sized to take into account the load of the circuit. The wiring is also sized to take this into account as well. While it is often times done it is not recommended to increase fuze sizes above the factory rating.
Matt
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Offline MadMax

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Re: Accessory Power outlets on the C10, GTR1000.
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2016, 11:11:30 am »
Hi Matt for the input. I agree with you regarding fuse rating but you now have a new load, so upgrading it is not a problem.
 You are not changing the cable or overloading it. Just moving it to a new location. The power you use is the same which ever place you take it from.
It comes in on pin1 of the j/b and then through the Main 30amp fuse & relay. The headlight fuse now becomes the headlight / acc. fuse.
The same power still goes through the same headlight cable’s. So no increase of load.
Headlight fuse is 10 amp so increasing to 15amp or 20amp depending on load requirements is not going to hurt at all. The fuse holder is up to the job. The only difference is where you take the power from in the junction box.
 If you have ever taken one apart, you will have noticed that the bus bars are well up to the job. If you wanted to be extra safe put an inline fuse (10Amp) on the cable coming out of pin 9.  That’s the headlight power wire.
I changed mine over about 4 years ago and no problem. I use the bike everyday to work & back. I would like to point out I’ve been in the electronics industry for 45 years so I wouldn’t do anything that I consider unsafe. I wouldn’t do it & I wouldn’t put it on this forum. So don’t worry about this mod…Max..

Offline SteveJ.

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Re: Accessory Power outlets on the C10, GTR1000.
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2016, 11:20:09 am »
max,
I don't claim to be an expert on the intricacies of the C10 wiring but I am curious why you would want to additionally load one of the higher amperage circuits on the bike with heated grips.  Seems like a good way to overload the wiring and cause a bigger issue. Fuses are sized to take into account the load of the circuit. The wiring is also sized to take this into account as well. While it is often times done it is not recommended to increase fuze sizes above the factory rating.
Matt

I would add putting any more add ons on the lighting circuit is not a good idea. Something goes wrong with the add on wiring or the gizmo itself will kill the headlight fuse or simply overload the wiring and maybe causing the smoke to be released. Not good. Also, the wiring for the headlight is already suspect from the factory, losing about .5 volts at the headlight under optimum conditions. A lot of people install a headlight bypass kit from Murphs' or make up their own to deal with the voltage drop as it is, let alone adding more items to an already inadequate circuit.

All in all, an easy fix, just not a preferred fix, at least IMHO.


Added since your last post:

You will now have a twenty amp fuse protecting wiring to the headlight, correct? You have dealt with not overloading the headlight wiring but you now have a twenty amp fuse protecting a wire and load(to the headlight) that should have a ten amp fuse.

Unless I'm mistaken, which there is precedence for.

 :beerchug:
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Offline MadMax

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Re: Accessory Power outlets on the C10, GTR1000.
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2016, 01:12:02 pm »
Hi Steve, I understand your concern. That’s why I added the bit about adding an inline fuse to the headlight wire if you are that concerned.
The headlight & wiring would still be protected.
The only problem you get with the wiring is corrosion at the connectors, Keep them clean & you shouldn’t have any problems. I run a 35W HID headlight.
 This is far better than the standard one & draws less current. Just over 3amps. Remember a 10amp fuse doesn’t rupture until you go above that current. A standard headlamp is 60/55 watt. That’s only 5 amps max. Kawasaki put a 10amp fuse in because of the switch on surge you get with a cold bulb. Stick your multimeter on amps to where the headlight fuse goes and check for yourself. Why would Kawasaki put a Acc. output connector on the bike if it was no good? It’s designed to take up to 10 amps. What’s wrong with that? Most Hot grips take around 48 watts. 4Amps.
So No problems.
If you don’t put an inline fuse in or change the fuse you should still be OK as 4 +5 = 9 amps  still lower than the standard fuse rating.

Offline mattchewn

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Re: Accessory Power outlets on the C10, GTR1000.
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2016, 10:08:53 pm »
Max,
While I agree with what you are saying for the most part. The part that concerns me is the fact that there are NO C10's now that are less than 10 years old. Many have marginal wiring harnesses at best and this is just one more thing that can cause a significant issue on a bike with a compromised harness. Note the post about the voltage loss through the stock wiring. This I have seen first hand on good condition bikes. Since you are in electronics you know resistance equals heat. too much heat lets all the smoke out. NOT good JUJU. Unless a genie comes with the smoke of course.   :))
Matt
« Last Edit: January 09, 2016, 11:09:02 pm by mattchewn »
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Re: Accessory Power outlets on the C10, GTR1000.
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2016, 10:24:58 pm »
Or, put a weatherproof switch next to the outlet....  but I'm just crazy like that.   ;)
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Offline SteveJ.

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Re: Accessory Power outlets on the C10, GTR1000.
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2016, 11:22:01 pm »
I missed the separate fuse on the light part, thought there was only a separate fuse on the acc line. Oooops. Carry on.

 :beerchug:
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Offline Nosmo

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Re: Accessory Power outlets on the C10, GTR1000.
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2016, 11:36:36 pm »
Max,
While I agree with what you are saying for the most part. The part that concerns me is the fact that there are NO C10's now that are less than 10 years old. Many have marginal wiring harnesses at best and this is just one more thing that can cause a significant issue on a bike with a compromised harness. Note the post about the voltage loss through the stock wiring. This I have seen first hand on good condition bikes. Since you are in electronics you know resistance equals heat. too much heat lets all the smoke out. NOT good JUJU. Unless a genie comes with the smoke of course.   :))
Matt

That's not a problem, Lucas sells replacement smoke.

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Offline mattchewn

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Re: Accessory Power outlets on the C10, GTR1000.
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2016, 11:42:50 pm »
Well ok then,
Problem solved! Carry on.
  :))
Matt
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Offline MadMax

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Re: Accessory Power outlets on the C10, GTR1000.
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2016, 02:44:17 am »
Hi, I had to laugh at Nosmo comment. Great!.
 The wire that goes between the J/B and the front of the bike is one piece of wire designed for accessories. There is only one connector in the line. If kept clean you shouldn’t get voltage drop. ie,. Resistance.
Yes I know all about bad connectors causing heat build up & voltage drop even melt down.
Yes I also know that all cable has resistance.
But this little mod is not loading any other circuit.

 If your bike has Bad Wiring that’s your Problem!  Lack of Maintenance!

Yes I know all about earth problems. Again keeping things clean, like earth points help.
 There is something called Maintenance ! If while doing the normal things required for maintenance, you should also be checking all the connectors. This is more so as the C10 doesn’t use waterproof connectors,

 I think it’s called Preventive Maintenance!  Maybe you have not heard of that!

 Now over the many years of fault finding on auto electrical circuits in my spare time, most end up being earth related problems or bad connectors.
Now if you want to talk about Kawasaki wiring problems on a bike that’s 30 years old. Try me on the ZN1300. It makes the C10 look simple.

 I get this feeling some of you are a little Paranoid about wiring. But it’s very simple when you get down to the basics. 
Why make things more complicated than what’s necessary. Adding more wires and relays means there is more to go wrong. Simple!

Offline SteveJ.

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Re: Accessory Power outlets on the C10, GTR1000.
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2016, 10:16:34 am »
Max,
While I agree with what you are saying for the most part. The part that concerns me is the fact that there are NO C10's now that are less than 10 years old. Many have marginal wiring harnesses at best and this is just one more thing that can cause a significant issue on a bike with a compromised harness. Note the post about the voltage loss through the stock wiring. This I have seen first hand on good condition bikes. Since you are in electronics you know resistance equals heat. too much heat lets all the smoke out. NOT good JUJU. Unless a genie comes with the smoke of course.   :))
Matt

That's not a problem, Lucas sells replacement smoke.

Here is presented for your perusal one Lucas Replacement Wiring Harness Smoke
kit, P/N 530433, along with the very rare Churchill Tool 18G548BS adapter tube
and metering valve. These kits were supplied surreptitiously to Lucas factory technicians
as a trouble-shooting and repair aid for the rectification of
chronic electrical problems on a plethora of British cars. The smoke is metered,
through the fuse box, into the circuit which has released it's original smoke
until the leak is located and repaired. The affected circuit is then rectified
and the replacement smoke re-introduced. An advantage over the cheap repro smoke
kits currently available is the exceptionally rare Churchill metering valve and
fuse box adapter. It enables the intrepid and highly skilled British Car
Technician to meter the precise amount of genuine Lucas smoke required by the
circuit.
Unlike the cheap, far-eastern replacement DIYsmoke offered by the "usual
suppliers", this kit includes a filter to ensure that all the smoke is of
consistent size, It has been our experience in our shop that the reproduction Taiwanese
smoke is often "lumpy", which will cause excessive
resistance in our finely-engineered British harnesses and components. This is
often the cause of failure in the repro electrical parts currently available,
causing much consternation and misplaced cursing of the big three suppliers.
These kits have long been the secret weapon of the "Ultimate
Authorities" in the trade, and this may be the last one available. Be
forewarned, though, that it is not applicable to any British vehicle built after
the discontinuing of bullet connectors, so you Range Rover types are still on
your own...
This Genuine Factory Authorized kit contains enough smoke to recharge the
entire window circuit on a 420 Jaguar, and my dear friend and advisor George
Wolf of British Auto Specialty assures me that he can replace ALL the smoke in a
W&F Barrett All-Weather Invalid Car(147 CC) with enough left over to test a
whole box of Wind-Tone horns for escaped smoke. How much more of an endorsement
do you need?
More, you say? Well, I once let the smoke out of the overdrive wiring on my
friend Roger Hankey's TR3B, and was able to drive over 200 miles home from The
Roadster Factory Summer Party by carefully introducing smoke into the failed
circuit WITHOUT even properly repairing the leak. Another friend, Richard
Stephenson, was able to repair the cooling fan circuit of his Series 1 E-type by
merely replacing a fuse and injecting a small quantity of smoke back into the
wires. So there!
So, if you're troubled by lost smoke, bid early and bid often! Thanks for
looking!

Quoted from following link.

 I'm sure one could get smoke for a C-10.

http://www.keithbloom.com/vgvanilla/discussion/4/lucas-replacement-wiring-harness-smoke-kit/p1




« Last Edit: January 10, 2016, 10:21:45 am by SteveJ. »
Yeah, if you want true ram air tuning, you better be willing to ram some air! (SiSF)
Tick Tock, baby (Ironbuttal)
Steve J  Tavares, FL, one of the Floriduh Steves
'15 Versys650LT, '98 KLR650, (back home), '99 C-10, 234k miles sold

Offline MadMax

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Re: Accessory Power outlets on the C10, GTR1000.
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2016, 11:31:48 am »
Hi, I must get one of those smoke kits. It’s a “Must Have” Tool!
I just found this on the forum take a look.
http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php?topic=62986.0
Cal has the same idea as me. To use pin 8 on j/b.
At the end of the day every one likes to do there own thing.

Offline Weestrom05

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Re: Accessory Power outlets on the C10, GTR1000.
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2016, 11:31:10 pm »
Steve. As I understand the use oh replacement smoke only work with English made machines. Use on other machines must be done with owner disgression.   

Offline drumstyx

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Re: Accessory Power outlets on the C10, GTR1000.
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2016, 03:51:37 pm »
I ran a separate wire for my grips and voltmeter. I use the ground from the accessory wires, but the relay is back by the battery with my own fuse block. At this point it's very easy to just run another wire for anything I need.

As I recall, I used the spare switched pin from the jbox to signal the relay -- it uses standard blade pins, so I was able to crimp a female blade connector and actually put it in the plug nicely.

Offline goatmar

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Re: Accessory Power outlets on the C10, GTR1000.
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2016, 04:42:41 pm »
Put in a wired relay with terminal block, Murph has them I think.  Pulls straight from the battery and is only on when the bike is running.  Thus no battery drain from being left on or someone messing with it.  Did my own and works great.  No pics will add later.  >:(
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Offline SteveJ.

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Re: Accessory Power outlets on the C10, GTR1000.
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2016, 10:21:52 pm »
Steve. As I understand the use oh replacement smoke only work with English made machines. Use on other machines must be done with owner disgression.


Quoting from this thread on the GTR AUS forum from this post:


http://gtr1000.yuku.com/topic/4957/t/Lucas-Replacement-Wiring-Harness-Smoke.html#.VpWHaegrLIV


Quote
Have you inadvertantly let the smoke out of the wires on your classic British, Japanese car, or motorbike? This, then, is the solution to your problem!


It would appear that a person would be good to go with the Lucas brand for Japanese bikes. It could be cuz they are upside down down there, not to mention that their toilets swirl anti clockwise.

Interesting reading on Lucas Electrics, courtesy of Google.

 :beerchug:
Yeah, if you want true ram air tuning, you better be willing to ram some air! (SiSF)
Tick Tock, baby (Ironbuttal)
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'15 Versys650LT, '98 KLR650, (back home), '99 C-10, 234k miles sold

Offline Bob H

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Re: Accessory Power outlets on the C10, GTR1000.
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2016, 10:24:18 pm »
All electronics runs on magic smoke.  If you let it escape, your electronics will quit working!
Remember, much of what you see on-line is wrong or misguided, your task is to filter that out!
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Bone stock...and proud of it!!

Offline Nosmo

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Re: Accessory Power outlets on the C10, GTR1000.
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2016, 03:16:43 am »
Sorry, guys, I really didn't mean to derail this thread with the Lucas smoke picture. :(

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Offline SteveJ.

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Re: Accessory Power outlets on the C10, GTR1000.
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2016, 11:07:18 pm »
Sorry, guys, I really didn't mean to derail this thread with the Lucas smoke picture. :(

Thread was pretty well over, I thought it was an excellent derail. Plus, more people were enlightened about the Prince of Darkness, I'm sure.
Yeah, if you want true ram air tuning, you better be willing to ram some air! (SiSF)
Tick Tock, baby (Ironbuttal)
Steve J  Tavares, FL, one of the Floriduh Steves
'15 Versys650LT, '98 KLR650, (back home), '99 C-10, 234k miles sold

Offline Vince

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Re: Accessory Power outlets on the C10, GTR1000.
« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2020, 08:44:55 pm »
Quick zombie thread revival... since google lead me here for “concourse switched accessory power”

Another electrical engineer perspective... Mad Max is right in saying the Junction Box traces and wiring can handle it, since every electron (that isn’t driving the starter motor) already goes through identical-width traces. The one concern would be the Main Relay (Ignition Relay in international and Australian models) is now carrying the accessories load. The main relay should support all circuits at full load, which Kawasaki determined to be up to 30 amps. The additional heated vest and grips load will not hurt a healthy relay, but could speed the demise of a failing one. You would have more headroom if you switched to a more efficient headlight, or even LED’s throughout, but I’d personally limit the draw with this mod to a single heated item, plus perhaps a USB/charger outlet.

Since all the shifted load is happening in the J-Box: through the Main Fuse, the Main Relay, and then the Headlight Fuse (Headlight Relay isn’t involved), there’s no reason to worry about making a 10 amp circuit into a 15 amp one. Plus, the wires in the harness are all seeing what they were put there for in the first place.

Sidebar: the Clymer manual isn’t great at tying the wiring diagram to the junction box schematic, but charger_john spliced them together here:

http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-c10-zg1000-general-chat-and-tech/c10-wiring-diagram-complete/

Not sure which model he used but it looks like the 01-06 California and Canada version.

Cheers,
Vince L.